₦airaland Forum

God gave us freewill because he doesn't want robots in his kingdom but people who freely chose to follow him out of conscious love for him. He said he puts before us life and death but advised us to choose life.

TheLordIsGr8:
False!!! There's no heaven or hell in Buddhism, yet people still practice it.

I mean the Abrahamic religion cos they are the majority.

Even Jehovah's witnesses hold that there is no hell.

Is Jéhovah witness a formal of Christianity or not.?

Try some other lie.

Mr man, I believe you can read. The op was addressing Christianity. So what are my lies?

There's no place like hell where people burn. Death is the greatest punishment for sins committed. At death, good people have a hope for resurrection while bad pipo dont. That's all. Can u burn your child forever irrespective of wat he/she has done?

TheLordIsGr8:
What kind of lie is this?

Then why did God hold them accountable for eating the fruit if they were just zombies?

They were punished for disobedience. The flesh was activated from that moment cos all of a sudden they knew they were naked

GodsMopol:
Pls, give me a verse in the Bible that expressly state or infer that we have freewill as man. Evidently from Gen 1-3, because after chapter 3, it was a different world or system that was in operation

Well, lemme attempt your question, God gave man dominion not freewill (as I await the answer to the above) and the dominion was to dictate how the operations on earth should go as man dress and name and God uses the fellowship Man has with God to further make man a god on earth.

But man sinned, man never had the freewill to eat the fruit, God said, of all the tree thou can freely eat, but don't eat, it was a command not an invitation to treaty

Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

So, you agree that we are robots Or better put, created as robots?

WORLDPEACE:
They exist, majority or minority. Are atheists the majority in the world?

Atheism isn't a religion.

BTW,
We are minority.

Now your point

[quote author=coolesmile post=57821434][/quote]Nice one only that one thing is left out... Ladies and Gentlemen be very true to yourself think deeply... there's one tool every man born into this world have from birth... CONSCIENCE and conscience is like our body muscles you ignore it, it withers away, you train it to be evil, it becomes very evil and destructive, you listen to it and nurture it to grow by emulating Good things and principles you attain good moral standard, a good conscience will always take you to the right place, it will direct you on which book to read in that classroom.


To make it easy, you don't need to reinvent the wheel, I am a Christian (Follower of Christ Jesus) and I believe Jesus is the Way, The Truth and the Light, It's simple to read about Jesus in the bible and tell me if your conscience disagrees with his personality...

... and by the way, Christianity is more than religion, its a way of life...

Iamthoney:
Oya tell us the purpose ooo

The purpose of creating man was to achieve Godliness in the physical realm, and that is only achieved through free will

femi4:
The free will was not given, Adam and Eve got it out of disobedience

But then how come God commanded them not to eat of the forbidden fruit. What could have happened?

if ONLY i have free Will ,i wont have come as Nigerian and i. for no dey sufa like ds

carpenter4lyf:
Atheism isn't a religion.

BTW,
We are minority.

Now your point

Does the fact that you are a minority in the world mean you don't matter? Religious people who don't believe in hell exist, and they do matter. They have other reasons why they are religious in spite of their not believing in hell. So the teaching of hell is not the only reason religion exists. That's my point.

carpenter4lyf:
I mean the Abrahamic religion cos they are the majority.
Is Jéhovah witness a formal of Christianity or not.?
Mr man, I believe you can read. The op was addressing Christianity. So what are my lies?

You should have been more specifice about "religion"

Ok, you're talking about Abrahamic religions. Jehovah's Witnesses claim that there is no hell and they still have membership. But your claim is that hell is what is keeping people in Abrahamic religions. That's the lie.

WORLDPEACE:
Does the fact that you are a minority in the world mean you don't matter? Religious people who don't believe in hell exist, and they do matter. They have other reasons why they are religious in spite of their not believing in hell. So the teaching of hell is not the only reason religion exists. That's my point.

OK. I now understand you.
Anyways, I was referring mainly to the Abrahamic religion cos they are the majorities and they dominate worldwide

Sagay212:
You were given free will so that you can choose between good and evil. It would have been unfair if you never had an option. God knows what he is doing.

If truly we were given freewill, there will be no consequences for our choices. We should be able to choose side without the threat of hellfire or reward of heaven.

hopefulLandlord:
Free will is inherently paradoxical, though, and doubly so when dealing with a supposedly omniscient, omnipotent being.

If decisions are dictated by circumstances (circumstances being both internal and external for this matter; predispositions to certain behaviours as much as personal history, etc.), then you have no free will, as you were never in control of your circumstances. If they are dictated by nothing, they're random and arbitrary, meaning you have no say in the decision-making process and, again, no free will.

Likewise, an omniscient being knows the outcome of all things before they occur. If said omniscient being is also omnipotent and creates a living creature, it decides the nature and circumstances of that being and, thus, all decisions it will ever make from the moment it has the cognizance to do so.

Lol. Your explanation is quite... I should say...philosophical. Nice grammar there but please consider other nairalanders who are not conversant with the English Language.

aydes:
But then how come God commanded them not to eat of the forbidden fruit. What could have happened?

Without taking from the forbidden fruit, these would have happen

A dominion over sin of the flesh

Still be enjoying Garden of Eden

Fully obedient to God's instruction without struggle

TheLordIsGr8:
But it could be quite simple. The missing link is our understanding. As St. Augustine said, "if you understand him, he's not God." It is safe to assume that we don't really know how God is omniscient. We are only speaking as our human language allows.



How about a third option. That decisions are NOT dictated, but are a product of RATIONAL thought/choice. Thus decisions cannot be random nor arbitrary, and sometimes have no bearing on circumstance. I can decide I want to go to the market today, whether it rains or not. I am not being arbitrary, neither am I letting circumstance dictate what I should do. I make a conscious choice and I stick to it.



As you're typing now, I know that someday or sometime your MB will finish. Does that mean I am the one who made it to finish? No.

Likewise, if God is omniscient, does that mean he's the one pushing somebody to make any decision? No.

omniscience and freewill are mutually exclusive

TheLordIsGr8:
You should have been more specifice about "religion"

Maybe you never got where I was drifting towards. Anyways, I was referring to Abrahamic religions cos they dominate and majorités worldwide

Ok, you're talking about Abrahamic religions.

Yea

Jehovah's Witnesses claim that there is no hell and they still have membership.

That's because Christianity is a confused is a confused religion. They disagree on many issues.

But your claim is that hell is what is keeping people in Abrahamic religions. That's the lie.

Hell is the reason why Abrahamic religions thrives. Which isn't a lie.

They don't wanna burn for eternity

femi4:
They were punished for disobedience

How foolish could God be to punish a "zombie" for disobedience? Come on. God gave them a choice. He told them the day you eat you shall surely die. Zombies don't make choices. Only rational beings with free will do.

femi4:
The flesh was activated from that moment cos all of a sudden they knew they were naked

What do you mean by flesh being activated?
About unclothedness. They always knew they were naked but it wasn't a big deal for them cos they were ONE. But enter the serpent and God's trial and judgment and everyone start blaming the other. Eve blame serpent. Adam blame God. Its only natural that you "keep your thing and I keep my thing."

VargasVee:
We were all created with free will, now what good is it for us to have it if the intention was not for us to use it cause we'd go to hell if we stray?


I'm confused here.

Study the bible with a concordance on the matter.
Make the right set of choices that lead to life
And heaven

hopefulLandlord:
omniscience and freewill are mutually exclusive

God is omniscient and has freewill. So they're not necessarily mutually exclusive.

TheLordIsGr8:
How foolish could God be to punish a "zombie" for disobedience? Come on. God gave them a choice. He told them the day you eat you shall surely die. Zombies don't make choices. Only rational beings with free will do.



What do you mean by flesh being activated?
About unclothedness. They always knew they were naked but it wasn't a big deal for them cos they were ONE. But enter the serpent and God's trial and judgment and everyone start blaming the other. Eve blame serpent. Adam blame God. Its only natural that you "keep your thing and I keep my thing."

You surely know little about the scripture

aydes:
Why would you boubt the existence of free will when God gave us the ability to choose between right and wrong, good or bad, heaven or hell?

that's because freewill and omniscience are mutually exclusive!

If He knows what we're going to do, doesn't that mean we are destined to do it? And if we are destined to do it, what are we, just "automaton-entertainment" for God??

To put it another way, God knows what we're going to do but we don't know what we're going to do. Still, we are going to do what God already knows we're going to do.

If we don't know what we're going to do (free will), how can God know, in advance, what we're going to do, since we haven't done it yet?

Either God does or doesn't know what we're going to do. And if God does know what we're going to do, what is the point of being tested as to whether we deserve Heaven or Hell? If we can't change (no free will) or if God knows what we're going to do in advance, why not go directly to Go either Heaven or Hell? As the song goes, "Why mess with mister in-between?" ♫♪♪♫♫♪

I'm sorry, but square pegs do not fit into a round hole. I learned that when I played with my "baby's block set." Later on, I learned that "you can't squeeze blood from a turnip," or my friend's favorite, "you can't pick feathers from a frog" (Dutch saying).

I will repeat my question: What is the point of free will if we are destined to do such-and-such? I don't get it.

hopefulLandlord:
that's because freewill and omniscience are mutually exclusive!

If He knows what we're going to do, doesn't that mean we are destined to do it? And if we are destined to do it, what are we, just "automaton-entertainment" for God??

To put it another way, God knows what we're going to do but we don't know what we're going to do. Still, we are going to do what God already knows we're going to do.

If we don't know what we're going to do (free will), how can God know, in advance, what we're going to do, since we haven't done it yet?

Either God does or doesn't know what we're going to do. And if God does know what we're going to do, what is the point of being tested as to whether we deserve Heaven or Hell? If we can't change (no free will) or if God knows what we're going to do in advance, why not go directly to Go either Heaven or Hell? As the song goes, "Why mess with mister in-between?" ♫♪♪♫♫♪

I'm sorry, but square pegs do not fit into a round hole. I learned that when I played with my "baby's block set." Later on, I learned that "you can't squeeze blood from a turnip," or my friend's favorite, "you can't pick feathers from a frog" (Dutch saying).

I will repeat my question: What is the point of free will if we are destined to do such-and-such? I don't get it.

You have time for explanations ooo

ASK EVE THAT ATE THE APPLE.

carpenter4lyf:
That's because Christianity is a confused is a confused religion. They disagree on many issues

Christianity is not a confused religion. Man is a confused being. Whatever man lays his hands on goes up in flames. Christianity as Christ established it still thrives. It is man that is inventing his own devices so as to make money.

carpenter4lyf:
Hell is the reason why Abrahamic religions thrives. Which isn't a lie.

They don't wanna burn for eternity

The God of Christianity emphasized love for him over fear of punishment. It would have been easier for Jesus to just throw a few fires and say to people, "here's the fire that will burn you if you don't follow me". But instead he chose to die for the remission of my sin.

Before he was to die he so much emphasized love to his disciples. You can read it yourself in the later chapters of the Gospel of John.

So if anyone is afraid of hell, then, they fear rightly. But their priority is misplaced. But still they do well for themselves if they can hold out till the end.

TheLordIsGr8:
God is omniscient and has freewill. So they're not necessarily mutually exclusive.

bros, I'm talking human perspective

If He knows what we're going to do, doesn't that mean we are destined to do it? And if we are destined to do it, what are we, just "automaton-entertainment" for God??

To put it another way, God knows what we're going to do but we don't know what we're going to do. Still, we are going to do what God already knows we're going to do.

If we don't know what we're going to do (free will), how can God know, in advance, what we're going to do, since we haven't done it yet?

Either God does or doesn't know what we're going to do. And if God does know what we're going to do, what is the point of being tested as to whether we deserve Heaven or Hell? If we can't change (no free will) or if God knows what we're going to do in advance, why not go directly to Go either Heaven or Hell? As the song goes, "Why mess with mister in-between?" ♫♪♪♫♫♪

I'm sorry, but square pegs do not fit into a round hole. I learned that when I played with my "baby's block set." Later on, I learned that "you can't squeeze blood from a turnip," or my friend's favorite, "you can't pick feathers from a frog" (Dutch saying).

I will repeat my question: What is the point of free will if we are destined to do such-and-such? I don't get it.

femi4:
You surely know little about the scripture

Enlighten me.

TheLordIsGr8:
Christianity is not a confused religion.

I don't expect you to agree. Anyways, I ve been there before. I have traded the path of Christianity.

Man is a confused being. Whatever man lays his hands on goes up in flames. Christianity as Christ established it still thrives. It is man that is inventing his own devices so as to make money.


The God of Christianity emphasized love for him over fear of punishment. It would have been easier for Jesus to just throw a few fires and say to people, "here's the fire that will burn you if you don't follow me". But instead he chose to die for the remission of my sin.

Before he was to die he so much emphasized love to his disciples. You can read it yourself in the later chapters of the Gospel of John.

So if anyone is afraid of hell, then, they fear rightly. But their priority is misplaced. But still they do well for themselves if they can hold out till the end.

Thank you. All these not needed. I know them

With religion, there's nothing like freewill, It's just like an armed robber asking you to choose between your life or your money, and then telling people you chose your life out of your own freewill.. Religion doesn't leave you with much of a choice, accept and love God or burn in hell

hopefulLandlord:
bros, I'm talking human perspective

If He knows what we're going to do, doesn't that mean we are destined to do it? And if we are destined to do it, what are we, just "automaton-entertainment" for God??

To put it another way, God knows what we're going to do but we don't know what we're going to do. Still, we are going to do what God already knows we're going to do.

If we don't know what we're going to do (free will), how can God know, in advance, what we're going to do, since we haven't done it yet?

Either God does or doesn't know what we're going to do. And if God does know what we're going to do, what is the point of being tested as to whether we deserve Heaven or Hell? If we can't change (no free will) or if God knows what we're going to do in advance, why not go directly to Go either Heaven or Hell? As the song goes, "Why mess with mister in-between?" ♫♪♪♫♫♪

I'm sorry, but square pegs do not fit into a round hole. I learned that when I played with my "baby's block set." Later on, I learned that "you can't squeeze blood from a turnip," or my friend's favorite, "you can't pick feathers from a frog" (Dutch saying).

I will repeat my question: What is the point of free will if we are destined to do such-and-such? I don't get it.

Still you haven't answered my question. I know your MB will finish. Tell me how I am responsible for that and I'll tell you how come we do not have any freewill but are robots for God's entertainment.

Olowogbogboro