I'll reply those mentions to the best of my present knowledge soon

ameri9ja:


I still maintain the difference between man and other animals rivals the difference between living and non-living things. Animals have been evolving longer or equal time period as man, yet non is any where near talking or writing like a human child.

What's your take on this my reply to Seun? (And the one below that, to TLuzzie?)

Here it is:

1) So u say u can explain prophesies and other supernatural stuff. Go ahead and explain, we are all ears. And while u r at it, also explain to us how u know for sure that anything exists outside yourself, in other words how u know that all this is not happening only in your head.

2) Remember I said I'd be more inclined to believe you. It is a matter of probability. Be honest, who would u be more inclined to believe: someone who is supported by thousands of people over thousands of years and all sorts of supernatural stuff OR someone who says he is guessing there could have been a big bang out of nothing, while admitting he knows absolutely nothing about 96% of what he is guessing about!? They call it dark matter/dark energy. (That means scientists can study only 4% of the PHYSICAL universe. Not to talk of other possible aspects of the universe that are completely beyond our equipments and imagination)

3. The question is: is it possible, in this our universe, to KNOW something and yet not be able to explain it or give proof about it? I believe the answer is yes. So if one says he is not sure about the answers to the questions of this thread, he should not also go ahead to say that nobody else knows.

In conclusion, I believe this our reality was intentionally set up such that it is impossible to fully understand it's true nature and be able to logically or scientifically explain it, while still in it.
Religion takes that into account. Atheists (logic and science) don't.

Expatiating, this one to TLuzzie:

See, the thing is that you admit you don't know. Which is understandable because you are very limited - you even have no way of knowing if anything exists outside yourself.
Someone else emphatically say they know without a doubt based on things beyond your limited understanding. Then they support their claim with things beyond your limited purview: prophesies, miracles, prayers answered, lives dramatically transformed, etc.
See, what you should say is that you don't know and stop there. Don't say nobody else knows. You are way too limited to say that.

I've read all what you believe.

Forgive my ignorance...
What do you know?

Deicide:

Who told you that animals don't communicate or talk to each just because you don't understand Chinese does it mean China people don't talk gosh

Who has ever said animals don't communicate?
Look, animals have been evolving same period as man or longer, yet show me an animal you think will soon start writing like a child. If u r honest with yourself, the truth is that the difference between man and other animals rivals the difference between living and non-living things.

What's your take on this my reply to Seun? (And the one below that, to TLuzzie?)

Since you claim to KNOW, what's the EVIDENCE for all of this?

I don't claim to know at all. I'm just pointing out who it makes more sense to believe.

Profkenny1:




Here you go guys! Sorry, I've been busy with writing a proposal due on Friday.

The earliest and most direct observational evidence of the validity of the theory are^a:

1. The expansion of the universe according to Hubble's law (as indicated by the redshifts of galaxies),
2. Discovery and measurement of the cosmic microwave background, and
3. The relative abundances of light elements produced by Big Bang nucleosynthesis

I am also attaching a pdf document. Please study it and also expand your knowledge by going through the references.

Africa must rise...Let's break the jinx of "If you want to hide anything from a black man hide it inside a book, he will NEVER find it!"

a Partridge, R. B. (2007). 3K: The Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation (illustrated ed.). Cambridge University Press

I don't have to understand what u have written to know your "evidence" is hogwash, dubious at best - when you start off by admitting you know absolutely nothing about 96% of what you are theorizing about.

What's your take on this my reply to Seun?

aaronson:
Your question is so invalid. its like you asking what's the colour of air?

consciousness in man is the 'being' in you that makes you exist and you only know you exist because you think you are. A dead person can't exist because they can't think for them self that they do so yes, consciousness is the
reason you thought to even quote me.

Here is what u wrote:
[["Now, living things in this same universe such as me you and other living things can NOT die because we don't really exist, we only change form. 

Note- You only confused because of the following:

1 - you trying to make sense of a dead universe because you have consciousness which the universe lacks."]]

While congratulating u for thinking outside the box, I have to also say u make no sense:

How can something that does not exist change form? And u never answered the question: where does that consciousness or "being" in u as u put it come from? That's the discussion of this thread.

ameri9ja:


Who has ever said animals don't communicate?
Look, animals have been evolving same period as man or longer, yet show me an animal you think will soon start writing like a child. If u r honest with yourself, the truth is that the difference between man and other animals rivals the difference between living and non-living things.

I would do that when you show me a human that can lay eggs or the ones that can fly with their hands........

What's your take on this my reply to Seun? (And the one below that, to TLuzzie?)

Here it is:

1) So u say u can explain prophesies and other supernatural stuff. Go ahead and explain, we are all ears. And while u r at it, also explain to us how u know for sure that anything exists outside yourself, in other words how u know that all this is not happening only in your head.

What do you mean by supernatural stuff and prophecies?

2) Remember I said I'd be more inclined to believe you. It is a matter of probability. Be honest, who would u be more inclined to believe: someone who is supported by thousands of people over thousands of years and all sorts of supernatural stuff OR someone who says he is guessing there could have been a big bang out of nothing, while admitting he knows absolutely nothing about 96% of what he is guessing about!? They call it dark matter/dark energy. (That means scientists can study only 4% of the PHYSICAL universe. Not to talk of other possible aspects of the universe that are completely beyond our equipments and imagination)

Don't tell me you don't accept that the God you believe in also came and of noting? dark matter and energy have been proven to exist by science so I dont know what you are getting at there

3. The question is: is it possible, in this our universe, to KNOW something and yet not be able to explain it or give proof about it? I believe the answer is yes. So if one says he is not sure about the answers to the questions of this thread, he should not also go ahead to say that nobody else knows.

i swear am not understand you...

In conclusion, I believe this our reality was intentionally set up such that it is impossible to fully understand it's true nature and be able to logically or scientifically explain it, while still in it.
Religion takes that into account. Atheists (logic and science) don't.

Bullcrap empirical science just started 500years ago and look at what it's gotten us, and besides no one said scientist know everything but they are always decovring new things that because they put their hardwork into it

Expatiating, this one to TLuzzie:

See, the thing is that you admit you don't know. Which is understandable because you are very limited - you even have no way of knowing if anything exists outside yourself.
Someone else emphatically say they know without a doubt based on things beyond your limited understanding. Then they support their claim with things beyond your limited purview: prophesies, miracles, prayers answered, lives dramatically transformed, etc.
See, what you should say is that you don't know and stop there. Don't say nobody else knows. You are way too limited to say that.

I never claimed to know everything

DeepEyes:


Oh sorry but I doubt ud get any proper response since atheist, just like theists, hate when their beliefs are questioned beyond their mental capacity. Ironic isn't it? They're​ guilty of the exact thing they condemn all believers for- blind belief! Lol. They are very logical until they have to get illogical to support their logic. Lemme explain: standard science law of causes and affects is suddenly benched to argue that there was once a "Random" big bang out of "nowhere" that started time, space and evolution. See what I mean? Lol

To answer ur question tho, the subject of God is complexity, as only religion posits any kind of practical explanation. But we know, from history, that religions can't be trusted due to their mostly contrived ideologies. This "made up" nature of religion is what disqualifies it and it's claims, atleast for an intellectual mind. Science on the other hand tries to be as investigative as possible, until they have no more leads and resort to stalemate hypothesis disguised as theories. This is where science fails too. So both the theist and atheist end up in the same boat of knowledgeable ignorance. Wouldn't it suffice to just admit that we don't know, rather than feigning one knowledge or the other?

There's obviously an origin/source/creator but its probably not that "God" depicted by religion as an attention-seeking insecure being.

Bros, na you dem ask? Besides you clearly do not know the difference between an atheist and a scientist, you're equating atheism to science... SMH.

ameri9ja:
Thanks again, Seun, for taking the time and for Nairaland. Sorry about the delay in reply, you know how it gets. 1) So u say u can explain prophesies and other supernatural stuff. Go ahead and explain, we are all ears. And while u r at it, also explain to us how u know for sure that anything exists outside yourself, in other words how u know that all this is not happening only in your head.

Name the single "supernatural" phenomenon that you consider to be the most impressive and difficult to explain, and I will explain it to you.
If you want to talk about prophecies, tell me about the most impressive prophecy that you have witnessed and I will explain it to you. This is not to say that there is nothing I can't explain, but the most common phenomena that people consider to be supernatural are easy to explain.

2) Remember I said I'd be more inclined to believe you. It is a matter of probability. Be honest, who would u be more inclined to believe: someone who is supported by thousands of people over thousands of years and all sorts of supernatural stuff OR someone who says he is guessing there could have been a big bang out of nothing, while admitting he knows absolutely nothing about 96% of what he is guessing about!?

The popularity of a belief is no indication of its truthfulness. You have to know why people believe what they believe. If the reason for a belief is sketchy, it is unlikely to be true. If the reason for a belief is sound and reasonable, it is likely to be true. We humans are very gullible as children. We tend to believe, and continue to believe, whatever our parents tell us during our formative years, whether they are right or wrong, beneficial, or harmful. Through this mechanism, religious ideas have been passed on for centuries, despite being incorrect and harmful.

3. The question is: is it possible, in this our universe, to KNOW something and yet not be able to explain it or give proof about it?

It's certainly possible to think that you "know" something without being able to explain it, but such "knowledge" is unlikely to be accurate.

In conclusion, I believe this our reality was intentionally set up such that it is impossible to fully understand it's true nature and be able to logically or scientifically explain it, while still in it.

This is an idea that you cooked up because it fits your existing beliefs. You've not taken any steps to determine whether it's actually true or not.

ScepticalPyrrho:
I've read all what you believe.

Forgive my ignorance...
What do you know?

Lol @last line

matrix600:
Bros, na you dem ask? Besides you clearly do not know the difference between an atheist and a scientist, you're equating atheism to science... SMH.

PROVE. ME. WRONG.

geoworldedu:


Guy don't go there o. If this guy explains spirituality for you, then you will have no choice than to start reasoning out of the books. Go and read the revelation he claims his own god Atum the brother of Jehovah is revealing to him. You won't remain d same again.


https://www.nairaland.com/2938907/

That his particular submission I refered to is very good. That doesn't mean his post u refered was not non-sensical.

DeepEyes:

1. What is this religion's esoteric "proof" of which you speak? Id like to understand you.

2. From what I know so far, religion bases it's doctrines on ancient teachings of God/Allah, while always whitewashing or ignoring his perceived shortcomings (things he did that they *secretly* do not approve) in their bid to assume perfection for a POSSIBLY imperfect deity. This is an ASSUMPTION! So how is religion any Superior?

1) Here are some of the "proofs":
**Prophet Mohamed, totally and copletely illiterate, was able to dictate the whole Koran, which he said was put on his lips by a supernatural entity he encountered while fasting in the caves.
** St. Paul, bent on killing Christians, became the greatest proponent of Christianity after an encounter with a supernatural entity.
** Countless prophesies, miracles, prayers answered, lives dramatically transformed, etc.
Nostradamas' prophecies, made thousands of years ago are still coming true till today

DeepEyes:

1. What is this religion's esoteric "proof" of which you speak? Id like to understand you.

2. From what I know so far, religion bases it's doctrines on ancient teachings of God/Allah, while always whitewashing or ignoring his perceived shortcomings (things he did that they *secretly* do not approve) in their bid to assume perfection for a POSSIBLY imperfect deity. This is an ASSUMPTION! So how is religion any Superior?

1) Here are some of their "proofs":
**Prophet Mohamed, totally and copletely illiterate, was able to dictate the whole Koran, which he said was put on his lips by a supernatural entity he encountered while fasting in the caves.
** St. Paul, bent on killing Christians, became the greatest proponent of Christianity after an encounter with a supernatural entity.
** Countless prophesies, miracles, prayers answered, lives dramatically transformed, etc.
Nostradamus' prophecies, made hundreds of years ago are still coming true today.

2) Remember u r the one who wrote the following:

[["There's obviously an origin/source/creator but its probably not that "God" depicted by religion as an attention-seeking insecure being."]]

And I was the one who pointed out to u that God didn't have to be perfect, that they were only describing him as he presented himself to them and that there was no reason he couldn't be as they described. I'm glad you have since come to see it that way also.
Most enduring religions are initiated by a direct encounter with a spernatural being.

DeepEyes:

PROVE. ME. WRONG.

Your post is filled with fallacy. So many hasty generalizations. I will not prove you wrong when you have not submitted anything worth proving wrong.

Who argues with a fallacious thinkers..

ameri9ja:
1) Here are some of the "proofs":
**Prophet Mohamed, totally and copletely illiterate, was able to dictate the whole Koran, which he said was put on his lips by a supernatural entity he encountered while fasting in the caves.

Claims of the Prophet's illiteracy may have been grossly exaggerated, but even if they are true, being illiterate only means that you cannot read or write. An illiterate can be creative and have a good memory.

The Prophet composed the verses over a period of many many years, memorized them, and taught them to his friends, who also memorized them. This is exactly how most societies passed on their traditions and myths from generation to generation before writing became a thing. There is nothing remarkable or supernatural about this.

His claim to have met a supernatural entity are easily explained as untruths. Many of his revelations are obviously self-serving such as the one permitting only himself to take more than 4 wives when he wished to do so, and those promising rich rewards to young men who died in battle when he was in need of fighters.

If you believe the Prophet's revelations came from a supreme supernatural entity who created the universe, then you should be a Muslim. Why are you not a Muslim?

matrix600:
Your post is filled with fallacy. So many hasty generalizations. I will not prove you wrong when you have not submitted anything worth proving wrong.

Who argues with a fallacious thinkers..

Ironic tho, that with such a bitterly antagonistic attitude to a rather "general" post, uve already proved me right

Seun:

Name the single "supernatural" phenomenon that you consider to be the most impressive and difficult to explain, and I will explain it to you.
If you want to talk about prophecies, tell me about the most impressive prophesy that you have witnessed and I will explain it to you. This is not to say that there is nothing I can't explain, but the most common phenomena that people consider to be supernatural are easy to explain.


The popularity of a belief is no indication of its truthfulness. You have to know why people believe what they believe. If the reason for a belief is sketchy, it is unlikely to be true. If the reason for a belief is sound and reasonable, it is likely to be true. We humans are very gullible as children. We tend to believe, and continue to believe, whatever our parents tell us during our formative years, whether they are right or wrong, beneficial, or harmful. Through this mechanism, religious ideas have been passed on for centuries, despite being incorrect and harmful.


It's certainly possible to think that you "know" something without being able to explain it, but such "knowledge" is unlikely to be accurate.


This is an idea that you made up because it fits your existing beliefs. You've not taken any steps to determine whether it's actually true or not.

Once again thanks for taking the time despite having so much to do and read.

Seun I am really surprised at you. Why pick an argument you are sure to quickly and easily lose?
OK, here goes :
** I was in the audience when a preacher predicted the planes flying into the World Trade towers in New York years before it happend. Explain that?
**Prophet Mohamed, totally and completely illiterate, was able to dictate the whole Koran, which he said was put on his lips by a supernatural entity he encountered while fasting in the caves. Explain that.
** St. Paul, bent on killing Christians, became the greatest proponent of Christianity after an encounter with a supernatural entity. Explain that
** Countless prophesies, miracles, prayers answered, lives dramatically transformed, etc.
Nostradamas' prophecies of hundreds of years ago still coming true till today. Explain all that.
------------------
It is not about just popularity of belief as I'm sure you very well know. If it's prophesied thousands of years ahead of time that a special person was coming and that person comes and says he is the one prophesied about and that his words would be around for thousands of years and, thousands of years later, it turns out he was right, there has to be something real there, though unexplainable by logic and science. The truth is that most enduring religions are initiated by an encounter with a supernatural entity and (initially at least) sustained and backed by that entity.
-------------------
Call it intuition, gut feeling, or what u will, but sometimes people simply KNOW, and they know with a certainty better than any scientific theory. Yet they are unable to explain how they know.
-----------------------
I didn't make up the idea of us not knowing the true nature of reality at all. It is an obvious fact.
Any person who had access to your brain can make u perceive anything and anyhow, regardless of what is actually there. You have no way of knowing if anything exists outside your head, nor it's true nature. For all I know, this could be one long dream I'm having. The universe didn't have to be set up that way, which makes one suspect this whole thing could be a set-up.
--------------------
Finally, Seun, u r a smart person. How can u possibly hang your belief system on the following!!! :

----Someone says he is guessing there could have been a big bang out of nothing, while admitting he knows absolutely nothing about 96% of what he is guessing about!? Calling it dark matter/dark energy. (That means scientists can study only 4% of the PHYSICAL universe. Not to talk of other possible aspects of the universe that are completely beyond our equipments and imagination).

Seun:

Claims of the Prophet's illiteracy may have been grossly exaggerated, but even if they are true, being illiterate only means that you cannot read or write. An illiterate can be creative and have a good memory.

The Prophet composed the verses over a period of many many years, memorized them, and taught them to his friends, who also memorized them. This is exactly how most societies passed on their traditions and myths from generation to generation before writing became a thing. There is nothing remarkable or supernatural about this.

His claim to have met a supernatural entity are easily explained as untruths. Many of his revelations are obviously self-serving such as the one permitting only himself to take more than 4 wives when he wished to do so, and those promising rich rewards to young men who died in battle when he was in need of fighters.

If you believe the Prophet's revelations came from a supreme supernatural entity who created the universe, then you should be a Muslim. Why are you not a Muslim?

The question is wether Mohamed encountered a supernatural being. I don't know how u can possibly argue he didn't if you know anything about his history and how he was deeply traumatized and changed by the experience. It is easy to tell what parts of the Koran were inspired. They came complete and perfect, you can't add or subtract a word, which is why it can't be translated without losing something.

I said most enduring religions were initiated by an encounter with the supernatural. Why don't you ask me why I'm not a Jew or Hindu or worship Yoruba gods?

Deicide:

I would do that when you show me a human that can lay eggs or the ones that can fly with their hands........

These things are instinctual, built in, writing is not. Comparing apples and oranges, aren't we?

Deicide:



What do you mean by supernatural stuff and prophecies?

I mean stuff like these:
** I was in the audience when a preacher predicted the planes flying into the World Trade towers in New York years before it happend. Explain that?
**Prophet Mohamed, totally and completely illiterate, was able to dictate the whole Koran, which he said was put on his lips by a supernatural entity he encountered while fasting in the caves. Explain that.
** St. Paul, bent on killing Christians, became the greatest proponent of Christianity after an encounter with a supernatural entity. Explain that
** Countless prophesies, miracles, prayers answered, lives dramatically transformed, etc.
Nostradamas' prophecies of hundreds of years ago still coming true till today. Explain all that.

Deicide:


Don't tell me you don't accept that the God you believe in also came and of noting? dark matter and energy have been proven to exist by science so I dont know what you are getting at there

Religion believes that God is timeless, has always.been and will always be there.
Scientist can detect 96% of the universe is there, calling it dark matter/dark energy. They also admit not having the slightest idea of its nature or what it's made of. (That means scientists can study only 4% of the PHYSICAL universe. Not to talk of other possible aspects of the universe that are completely beyond our equipments and imagination).

DeepEyes:

Ironic tho, that with such a bitterly antagonistic attitude to a rather "general" post, uve already proved me right

Proove that I proved you right

Deicide:

Bullcrap empirical science just started 500years ago and look at what it's gotten us, and besides no one said scientist know everything but they are always decovring new things that because they put their hardwork into it

The question is wether science is equipped to answer questions posed on this thread. The answer is no. The answers lie outside science and logic

Deicide:


I never claimed to know everything

Me neither. But I do think the answers to the questions posed lie outside this reality. In which
case, religion is more likely to have the answers than science.

Ameri9ja, please you need to stop repeating yourself in different posts. This is known as spamming.

ameri9ja:


Me neither. But I do think the answers to the questions posed lie outside this reality. In which
case, religion is more likely to have the answers than science.

You really are yet to make a point.

Religion is a vague word. Tell us what verifiable answers your religion have provided so far?

Tell us what new discoveries you've made through all your time spent being religious.

matrix600:
Proove that I proved you right

Oh that's simple: I did say that Atheists (most, not all) hate being put in tight corners during arguments; they tend to get unnecessarily antagonistic. U happened to do just that.

And I'd love to continue this banter with u but u already gave me the wrong signals as stated above. Means u won't be very good with arguments. Sorry