Trottle:
Empiree (You led me to the works of Imran Hosein, Dr. Iqbal and other gifted scholars)

Ikupakuti (You remain an "endangered specie" sir)

Ladunal

Al-Baqir

And others

You guys have really inspired me to penetrate this deen. Thanks!!

Prior this, I've been conjuring images deduced from the literal meaning of the Qur'an... (flying donkey, mountain of Gold, Gog and Magog et al not immediately realizing that they are: an aeroplane, Oil and the Christian Euro-Jewish civilization respectively).

However, I have a question, can a human (non-Muslim; Christian actually) be endowed with the gift of prediction without no prior spiritual exercise (Tahajjud, zikr etc) and be able to tell future of another person (such as the lifespan and the affection of Allah towards such a person).

You scholars explained the concept, but I couldn't grasp it much. Please, simplify it for "keen learners" like us. Thanks again.

I still have other questions after.

Here is something similar to what you are asking for. Courtesy of the sheikhuna.

ikupakuti:


Here so that we dont derail that thread.

#Thats the shelling we talking about. A feature of the spiritual bearings of this terrestial realm we share with the jinns & then upward unto the celestial (MALAKUT, JABARUT), a plane where dreamland falls into.

#Actually, its got nothing to do with TASAWWUF per se but with spiritiality. Spiritual prowess can be attained irrespective of Godliness or ungodliness.

#Whoever developes his/her spirituality, whether through Godly means or otherwise or has it by default, can easily experience things like that.

#What differenciates between people with such prowess & those without is that they can experience or exploit the properties of the ethereal in a state of wakefulness not until in dreamland.

#So, what differentiates between the Godliness & the ungodliness is the channel through which such prowess is attained. As the QURAN & the HADITH have made us known that the demonic spiritual spectrum is ruled by the demons while the angelic is ruled by the holy spirits.

#So, for whoever is tapping into the demonic network to advance his spirituality, his RUH wont be able to transcend the firmanent (where the demons used to lodge to decode waves) whether in dream or in wakefulness due to Q26:212 Q55:33-35 (those denied here are the shayateen & their allys among men). But for he whos channel is angelic can transcend the whole of the empyrean upto JABARUT (native of the angels & ruhs) according to individual‘s capacity.

#But every fard has his realworld merged with his slumber (dream) by default. Meaning every fard goes into dreamland with a wakeful mind, fulltime, in reference to that hadith of nana aisha (ra) where the prophet (saw) claimed his heart sleeps not. That endowment actually starts from WILAYYA before its advancement in NUBUWWA.

@trottle
You are welcome here. Those guys you have quoted up there have the thirst for knowledge and intelligence that is almost equivalent (if not more ) to what some Alfas who walk around with 40 muridis and an overflowing agbada that's enough to sew 7 shirt and trousers.

I'm only afraid they'll decide not to contribute anymore on this forum someday especially 'the death that has finally killed kuti'. When that time comes, I wonder how we'll get our questions answered. Until then I'll just take full advantage of this privilege.

ikupakuti:


I totally agree with Sheikh Hamza. Those that demand equity must come with clean hands also.

The truth is, every ideal no matter how sound it is, is bound to degenerate with time & those the devil usually uses are the ignorants.

Like he asserted, things are in hierarchical order. Its ISLAM then IMAN then IHSAN. But today, people want to jump the first two & claim the third whereas those two are the preliminaries/foundations upon which the third was established.

But, then there will always be bad eggs in all sects, even among the deviants, some would still deviate from the original course of deviation. People who dont want to pay their dues before claiming credits. Reason I dont associate with those noise makers.

******
But why dont the WAHABIS like being addressed as WAHABIS ? Are they ashamed of his legacy ni ? They practice a form of ISLAM taught by ibn abdulwahab, isnt it? By hijacking the term SALAFI to themselves, they are indirectly insinuating that others muslims aint SALAFIS which is derogatory & thats one of their tricks.

Really sad. That's why I love the way I grew up. We were isolated. And the reason given by dad and grandpa for doing that is what's happening today with so called "Sufis". This is why I stick to the ESSENCE which I keep telling brothers here but they chose not to listen. They want to equate everyone.

Also, we can't have extreme sufis (heretics) and extreme salafis (misguided) who are denying tassawuf altogether. This reminds me again of words of Imam Maliki(ra) that if you only pursue figh without tassawuf or spiritual essence you are misguided. And if you only stick to spirituality without figh, you are heretic. Both are apparent today.

You can see the brothers out rightly denying even essence of Sufism. They focus on what misguided ppl do. Many atimes I advised them. They do have evidence against pseudo sufis. But this is not excuse to deny reality. Both are misguided as imam maliki rightly said. And the masjid where I pray adheres to salafi manhaj. They are so boring bcus they have no programs to bring ppl especially children yet they are complaining that children don't come to masjid. But the sufi masajid, both Africans, Asians, Cyprus etc are filled with children bcus they have programs for everything and everyone. But the former only have adult program (lecture) where they only quote their scholars (not children friendly). So I advised them to adopt some elements of sufism like Sunday as-salatu to begin with. I didn't know a Nigerian sister was there. She sensed quickly I'm Nigerian and she said Sunday as-salatu is bida. She further said that group dhikr and reciting subhanallah, istgfar, etc is bida. I quickly shut the conversation and left.

So salafi attempt is to kill spirituality. This is misguidance just like misguided sufis

Lols

@Jamo90 & Trottle, thats what we‘ve being discussing all this while.

#Spiritual or material gifts does not denote Godliness neither does it denote ungodliness.

#God can decide to bestow upon anyone among his creatures (human, jinn, angels, animals) any of these 2 types of capabilities either by sheer luck or through effort of the seeker.

#When such comes through luck (by birth or nature of the creature involved), it is called MAOHIBA (gift). But if through effort, its called MALKIYYA (possession).

#Now, anything coming through effort, comes in one of two channels, the Godly & the ungodly.

#THE GODLY: Acquistition through this channel entails utilizing approved means by GOD to reach any end, no matter what that means is, so far it carries a divine sanction.

#THE UNGODLY: Aquistition through this channel entails utilizing unapproved means to reach an end. Anything ungodly is devilish.

#NOBODY has any independent power anywhere save GOD. All powers whether Godly or ungodly originated from God. Everybody is tapping from him including the devil.

#The channel of the power weild by the devil today came from Q38:82, when GOD laid a curse on him, in retaliation he requested saying “ by your MIGHT/POWER I shall....“ (even as a rebel the devil was humble enough to seek power & longetivity coz he knows he cant get anything done without GOD,) & GOD affirmed & granted him that power in Q38:84......brb

...So, after that vow by the devil to mislead mankind & God having granted him the powers necessary (all are in accoudance with the divine will/plan), GOD now sent down guidance through his prophets (untouchable by the devil) to guide & warn people of those ways affiliated to that channel of power granted to the devil, how to identify it so as not to thread it, cos the same fate await whoever subscribes to it as the devil.

#Every path (SIRAT) leads to GOD in reality. But the only one (guarded) that leads to his mercy & not his wrath is the one sent through his prophets called the STANDARD PATH (siratal mustaqeem), the devil lays in wait on the other.

#So, whether one prays in the name of GOD or in the name of jesus or in the name of the devil, its still the one & only GOD that will answer coz there is no any other AL MUJEEB anywhere save him & all his creatures whether obedient or not, do not have any RABB other than him.

#MUSA & the magicians: MUSA prayed in the name of GOD & the magicians prayed in the name of phiraun/devil & their needs were met . In Q20:67 MUSA was afraid after throwing his staff why ? Coz he knew both his power & theirs came from GOD & thus they are all valid! Throwing is one thing winning is another. He knew victory is subjected to the dictated of divine will (Destiny) & GOD can grant it to anybody. MUSA does not have the details of what had been decreed yet until GOD assured him Q20:68-69.

#Denying the powers of the devil is denying the powers of GOD.

#Those people (Godly & ungodly) with visionary prowess whether acquired or gifted are all legit.

#Those we were warned against are those threading the ungodly path. Believing them is believing the devil & thats automatic kufr....brb

...#Destiny is a spiritual feature of existence. It is not as hidden as many people think.

#It is not hidden to the angel that came to blow ruh into us & inputed the details of our destiny into our OS @ the embryonic stage of our lives neither is it hidden to the angels in charge of our sustenance. Anybody with the right means can easily tap into the frequencies of these spiritual entities/channel to access the details.

#Why casting lot is haram & a scientific method is not....brb.

LadunaI:


Here is something similar to what you are asking for. Courtesy of the sheikhuna.

Lols

Jamo90:
@trottle
You are welcome here. Those guys you have quoted up there have the thirst for knowledge and intelligence that is almost equivalent (if not more ) to what some Alfas who walk around with 40 muridis and an overflowing agbada that's enough to sew 7 shirt and trousers.

I'm only afraid they'll decide not to contribute anymore on this forum someday especially 'the death that has finally killed kuti'. When that time comes, I wonder how we'll get our questions answered. Until then I'll just take full advantage of this privilege.

Lols Becareful so that they dont use “ ma ri mi fin “ on you, they can be dangerous (buhari omo ....)

Empiree:
Really sad. That's why I love the way I grew up. We were isolated. And the reason given by dad and grandpa for doing that is what's happening today with so called "Sufis". This is why I stick to the ESSENCE which I keep telling brothers here but they chose not to listen. They want to equate everyone.

They can NEVER listen. Their ideaology was founded to attack TASAWWUF in the first place. They are on a mission.

This reminds me again of words of Imam Maliki(ra) that if you only pursue figh without tassawuf or spiritual essence you are misguided. And if you only stick to spirituality without figh, you are heretic. Both are apparent today.

This sums it up.

You can see the brothers out rightly denying even essence of Sufism. They focus on what misguided ppl do. Many atimes I advised them. They do have evidence against pseudo sufis. But this is not excuse to deny reality. Both are misguided as imam maliki rightly said.

Thats the only attack line they got. Letting it go will destroy all they‘ve built.

And the masjid where I pray adheres to salafi manhaj. They are so boring bcus they have no programs to bring ppl especially children. But the former only have adult program (lecture) where they only quote their scholars (not children friendly). So I advised them to adopt some elements of sufism like Sunday as-salatu to begin with. I didn't know a Nigerian sister was there. She sensed quickly I'm Nigerian and she said Sunday as-salatu is bida. She further said that group dhikr and reciting subhanallah, istgfar, etc is bida. I quickly shut the conversation and left.

LWKMD sunday assalatu loun loun! You want make them enter hellfire

Lols @ chidren friendly.Without children their ideaology no go last.

So salafi attempt is to kill spirituality.

They‘ll endup killing their spirituality ni & their will be no children to continue the madness, lobatan!

Jamo90:
@trottle
You are welcome here. Those guys you have quoted up there have the thirst for knowledge and intelligence that is almost equivalent (if not more ) to what some Alfas who walk around with 40 muridis and an overflowing agbada that's enough to sew 7 shirt and trousers.

I'm only afraid they'll decide not to contribute anymore on this forum someday especially 'the death that has finally killed kuti'. When that time comes, I wonder how we'll get our questions answered. Until then I'll just take full advantage of this privilege.

Thanks brother.

I'm also sad about such day. These sheikhs are really worth it all. Not those ones with see everyday fraught with arrogance and pride.

It's really a privilege to be among you all. At least I would be able enlighten myself more and those we can in our little way. These thread contain priceless infor. Jazakhumullah scholars.

Sensei ��� come and continue that casting lot and science jare before you enter another topic.

PS I hope you know you're still owing me that treatise on salatul fatih.

@My brothers, it's been a while. All your good works are noticed

ikupakuti:


Lols Becareful so that they dont use “ ma ri mi fin “ on you, they can be dangerous (buhari omo ....)

Haa I don't want that o. You remind me of my Uni days in Ilorin. There was a young beautiful lady I met who lived just across my street. Seriously, we loved to check out each other and I knew she liked me. I used to dream about us getting married until someone told me her Dad is a very strong and popular Sheikh well known in that area of Ilorin. And that her Dad can make me poop in my pants without having diarrhoea. Nothing has ever killed my spirit faster than when I heard those words.

My parents used to tell me then "ma wo egbekegbe and shoraa fun Awon Alfa Ilorin o" I was still young then Lol. I used to regret not approaching that girl. She has a name I've heard just once in my life "Mordiya" I've never found another person bearing that name.

When I look back and remember those days, I just look at the mirror and tell myself "Look at you, you can't even stand an incurable diarrhoea. Someone can not play with you,........ "

You said up there that our destiny is not hidden to the angel that came to blow ruh into us. So, apart from the angels, Do the jinns have equal access to the information about the destiny of humans?

#
I have seen ruqyah sessions where a jinn claimed he took the human's destiny and kept it away in a 'safe and unreachable ' place which in turn caused the human to be completely useless in life. And he said the destiny's normal location is somewhere around the forehead. Is destiny now like a part of the body that can be removed and replaced? The jinns can't be trusted but they sometimes tell the truth when they are under duress during ruqyah.
This brought a whole lot of new questions.

#As Muslims I believe knowing the capabilities and limitations of jinns are very important. Only the basic info can be found in kitab, others are just things we can only get through experience like during exorcism.

I'm tired of always hearing "Awon Iya, Awon iya niyen." some deviants Alfas will even say "I'll help you find out from Awon Ummu, Awon Ummu Agbalagba" And when they say u need "Iyonu Awon Agba " I'll then say in my mind "what of Iyonu omokekere ? have you forgotten that one too " Lol
I can't say these outside for security reasons. I don't want stories that touch the heart Lol

#Increase in the knowledge of these things reduces unnecessary fear.

*******
In your opinion, Which of these two have very devastating effect if Allah decides not to intervene, The Devil OR highest level of Ignorance?

ikupakuti:
...

#So, whether one prays in the name of GOD or in the name of jesus or in the name of the devil, its still the one & only GOD that will answer coz there is no any other AL MUJEEB anywhere save him & all his creatures whether obedient or not, do not have any RABB other than him.

This is Tawheed

ikupakuti:
...So, after that vow by the devil to mislead mankind & God having granted him the powers necessary (all are in accoudance with the divine will/plan), GOD now sent down guidance through his prophets (untouchable by the devil) to guide & warn people of those ways affiliated to that channel of power granted to the devil, how to identify it so as not to thread it, cos the same fate await whoever subscribes to it as the devil.

#Every path (SIRAT) leads to GOD in reality. But the only one (guarded) that leads to his mercy & not his wrath is the one sent through his prophets called the STANDARD PATH (siratal mustaqeem), the devil lays in wait on the other.

#So, whether one prays in the name of GOD or in the name of jesus or in the name of the devil, its still the one & only GOD that will answer coz there is no any other AL MUJEEB anywhere save him & all his creatures whether obedient or not, do not have any RABB other than him.

#MUSA & the magicians: MUSA prayed in the name of GOD & the magicians prayed in the name of phiraun/devil & their needs were met . In Q20:67 MUSA was afraid after throwing his staff why ? Coz he knew both his power & theirs came from GOD & thus they are all valid! Throwing is one thing winning is another. He knew victory is subjected to the dictated of divine will (Destiny) & GOD can grant it to anybody. MUSA does not have the details of what had been decreed yet until GOD assured him Q20:68-69.

#Denying the powers of the devil is denying the powers of GOD.

#Those people (Godly & ungodly) with visionary prowess whether acquired or gifted are all legit.

#Those we were warned against are those threading the ungodly path. Believing them is believing the devil & thats automatic kufr....brb

albaqir, this perhaps, answers what we discussed the other end

Jamo90:


Haa I don't want that o. You remind me of my Uni days in Ilorin. There was a young beautiful lady I met who lived just across my street. Seriously, we loved to check out each other and I knew she liked me. I used to dream about us getting married until someone told me her Dad is a very strong and popular Sheikh well known in that area of Ilorin. And that her Dad can make me poop in my pants without having diarrhoea. Nothing has ever killed my spirit faster than when I heard those words.

My parents used to tell me then "ma wo egbekegbe and shoraa fun Awon Alfa Ilorin o" I was still young then Lol. I used to regret not approaching that girl. She has a name I've heard just once in my life "Mordiya" I've never found another person bearing that name.

When I look back and remember those days, I just look at the mirror and tell myself "Look at you, you can't even stand an incurable diarrhoea. Someone can not play with you,........ "

Lol @Jamo90, that reminds me of Sheikh of dawatul-haq (ipe ododo). He said, "eyonu awon agba ko omo kekereni. What if you offend omokekere, which eyonu you go use?"

A strong standby alfa dont need this nonsense if he is upright. The only time you need or they need to advise someone to beg them is if their victim truly offends them. They advise you to apologize. When similar happened to me in ilorin of a woman who claimed i 'offended' her, i was young at 20 and was introduced to this man who is not Muslim at all. He said "a ma be awon iya ni, won nbinu e for no reason". He said if i doubted him, all i have to pay was 500# to bring her live image in front of me and ask her questions( exactly as in movies). I didnt doubt him but i had no money. But i said to myself, awon iya ko awon omode ni. I grew up with dua, why was the need for this?. i know the woman he was talking about. He described her and he was right. I asked, 'what does she want?. He said she wants nothing. She is just angry bcs of bright destiny ahead. Me i dont joke around when it comes to this. I embarked on dua which is so easy for me. Thats why i dont understand why some ppl find it difficult to sit down and make dua. And ofc, i told papa and grandpa. Her threat was real but God was in control. I felt nothing of her threats. Never doubt power of Yasin. Now, about two decades later, here i am. She is now indirectly begging to pay her son's school fees, I never mind bcus i had no issue with her. She chose to be stupid. what Allah already sealed just as ikupakuti said of firaun and musa(as) would come to pass. But that doesnt me one should allow such threats by sitting dumb. Wallah, they would trump over you.

@Sensei, you scarce. Honestly I‘ve totally forgotten I made such promise.

@Jamo90 abeg no kill me with laff common green light wey them show you, you don begin dream of marriage. lols @ unstoppable diarrhoea Na to befriend pampers go sure pass. Oko mordiya

Lols @ Ummu agbalagba, wetin person no go hear from these our alfas dem.

@empiree lols some people do make that mistake of thinking because they believe in GOD, evil people/power cannot harm them. Only if they know. Dem go die tey tey before they know it.
*********

@Jamo90

#Yes, they know many hidden things about us due to many factors, the biggest of which is our QAREENS who are also jinns.

#They see, hear, feel faster than us, they can browse our OS (QAREENS) to know our past history, thoughts & use that scientifically to calculate our immediate future, know where we went wrong, remedies & alot of subtle, minute details according to the limits of their capabilities. GOD said the jinn can see us from an “aspect“ from which we cannot see them. The hadith said they flow in our body system like blood.....

...In all, both human, jinns, angels or any creature can only know as much as GOD permits. GOD said in the KURSIYYI that “they (creatures) cant encompass a thing from his (GOD‘S) knowledge save what he (GOD) wills“.

#The human QAREEN is like his OS, if it gets compromised, the whole life of that person would be compromised.

#The terrestial phase of a man‘s spirituality & hence destiny is wired to his QAREEN.

#When you hear ORI, ELEDA, IRAWO, KADARA, CHI etc, thats the QAREEN.

#When one is summon in a calabash it is the QAREEN (ones soft copy) that will appear & anything done to him will affect ones destiny depending on how weak or strong the QAREEN is.

#When the QAREEN is strong & resistant, they say “ori e lee“. When it is weak & ductile they say “ori e gba abode“ “ori buruku“

#Another person‘s QAREEN (irawo) that is brighter with good prospects, can be reprogrammed & wired into that of another that is weak & lacks prospect, in order to work for him. Thats what they call (gba irawo) .

#Ignorance is the prime adversary of man. The plots of the devil are weak in the face of knowledge.

#GOD must surely interfare & respond to prayer, but like the NABI (saw) said, the prayers of a mumin are answered in one of 3 ways....

....#Witchcraft like other spiritual prowess, may come by birth or be acquired through effort. (witchcraft is a feature among some jinns)

#Its like an app programmed into the OS (QAREEN). So, witchcraft is not really about a person but his QAREEN. Thats why the NABI (saw) said, if there is anything that can change destiny, then its Ain (witchcraft) i.e the unmutable destiny not the mutable one o. No go find their trouble if you dont have the strenght to fight o.

************

#The key to unravel the mystery called destiny is another mystery called TIME. I.e what tomorrow holds would be unraveled when tomorrow comes

#The movements of the stars are the cusors of TIME. Studying the movement of the stars would unravel the mystery called TIME & hence destiny/future.

#Ever wonder why our destiny/future are not hidden to creature of higher sphares ?

#GOD said a day in the share of MALAKUT is in equivalency to 1000 earthly years. A day in JABARUT is in equivalency to 50000 earthly years.

#Now, imagine how much of our future a being operating in such realm could see in a minute

#When you connect the dots, you‘ll realise that destiny/future is not as obscure or hidden as many people think.

#Now, you‘ll realise why it was easy for phiraoun to pull out MUSA‘S info long before he was born by consulting the custodians of TIME : THE STARS!

@ikupakuti, after a lot has been said, what do you think of the hadith which frowns upon visiting fortuneteller actually meant?

Empiree:
@ikupakuti, after a lot has been said, what do you think of the hadith which frowns upon visiting fortuneteller actually meant?

Yeah.

#A fortuneteller is whoever tells, predicts, prophesys, speculates, etc on the outcome or details of an event/matter (whether personal or general), whether past, current or futuristic, no matter the channel he utilizes in arriving @ his conclusions.

#A muslim who conducts istikhara for people & tells them the outcome is also a fortune teller.

#A physician that conducts ultrascan for women & reveal to them the condition of whats in their womb is also a fortuneteller.

#All those speculators on broad street manhattan, NY are also fortunetellers (I hope you know their history & origin )

#Those we are forbidden from approaching are of two types.

1-: Those whos channels are legit but ungodly.

2-: Those who cast lots.

#The dangers of the first is that it can never be devoid of the manipulations of the devil, like in the HADITH that says the jinns do go to the upper sky to listen but mix the truth with a 100 lies, now those are who the NABI (saw) refered to as fortune tellers of that time.

As you can see, that channel (listening to the angels is a legit one) but by the time they relay it, it has become something else. Imagine visiting such @ that time & inquiring from him to tell you whether this new prophet is real or fake ?

#Again from this hadith, we can infer that the angels have some details of our destiny/future.

#The dangers of the second is that, it is a FAKE & RECKLESS approach which operates on PURE CHANCE. I‘m still coming to it.

ikupakuti:


Yeah.

#A fortuneteller is whoever tells, predicts, prophesys, speculates, etc on the outcome or details of an event/matter (whether personal or general), whether past, current or futuristic, no matter the channel he utilizes in arriving @ his conclusions.

#A muslim who conducts istikhara for people & tells them the outcome is also a fortune teller.

#A physician that conducts ultrascan for women & reveal to them the condition of whats in their womb is also a fortuneteller.

#All those speculators on broad street manhattan, NY are also fortunetellers (I hope you know their history & origin )

#Those we are forbidden from approaching are of two types.

1-: Those whos channels are legit but ungodly.

2-: Those who cast lots.

#The dangers of the first is that it can never be devoid of the manipulations of the devil, like in the HADITH that says the jinns do go to the upper sky to listen but mix the truth with a 100 lies, now those are who the NABI (saw) refered to as fortune tellers of that time.

As you can see, that channel (listening to the angels is a legit one) but by the time they relay it, it has become something else. Imagine visiting such @ that time & inquiring from him to tell you whether this new prophet is real or fake ?

#Again from this hadith, we can infer that the angels have some details of our destiny/future.

#The dangers of the second is that, it is a FAKE & RECKLESS approach which operates on PURE CHANCE. I‘m still coming to it.

Good one, so there is a possibility that some of them do not use jinns right?

I met a guy when I was in school, he saw me at the school date and warned me about marrying some particular set of ladies(complexion wise), I've actually heard d warning from someone else before.
I decided not to believe because I was not sure what channel these people were using.
I never went to seek anything from these people, they only saw me and told me this stuff.

So following what these guys say won't amount to shirk right?
CC. Empiree

Brilliant contributions.

@Empiree, Your story is very inspiring. It shows Prayer is the only key to fight off and keep these evil people where they belong. Some people are just lazy and are always looking for fast solutions out of their problems. I've seen situations where a jinn confessed he made the human feel sleepy and lazy whenever he wants to make Dua. That tactics is used to finalize their master plan.

I laugh when people say "if God has shown you your enemy, he/she can't hurt you anymore"
Yasin has been your Nuclear Weapon since 1900 Lol.

@ikupakuti Does ifa divination, sango & others fall under casting of lots? Those people are something else. A close associate confided in me that he was once asked to do 'irapada' so that he'll not die an untimely death. I was like 'who can save you from death if GOD wills it and vice versa? '

Sheikh ashile ilero once said "keferi o Ki'n shey eyan dada. Use whatever Dua you have to tackle them if they pass their boundary "

#According to what you said on witchcraft and qareens, if the angels and jinns are on higher realm and capable of the things you mentioned then we humans are the weakest link & on a good day we can't stand them. lols

Raintaker:
Good one, so there is a possibility that some of them do not use jinns right?

Yes, not all spiritual beings are jinns.

I met a guy when I was in school, he saw me at the school date and warned me about marrying some particular set of ladies(complexion wise), I've actually heard d warning from someone else before.
I decided not to believe because I was not sure what channel these people were using.
I never went to seek anything from these people, they only saw me and told me this stuff.

So following what these guys say won't amount to shirk right?
CC. Empiree

Yes, following what they say wont amount to shirk & you should also pray about it. Somethings do not conform with our nature though we might like them.

Those are the types of people with clairvoyant abilities, some might not even be humans & besides GOD can send help through anybody.

ikupakuti:


Yes, not all spiritual beings are jinns.



Yes, following what they say wont amount to shirk & you should also pray about it. Somethings do not conform with our nature though we might like them.

Those are the types of people with clairvoyant abilities, some might not even be humans & besides GOD can send help through anybody.

Jazaka lahu khayran.

Something not conforming with one's nature is a spiritual aspect that the mechanical readers/followers will also like to deny.
Thanks.

@Jamo90

Those Ifa, sango, oya etc all get their infos from those they befriend or worship among the jinns & many “alfas“ too. This jinns maybe believers or non-believers. The more pious among the alfas uses ruhaniyyas, angels.

All these fall under a single method they use, which is : THE SPIRITUAL NETWORK.

Coz the truth is, the scientific (mathematical) aspect of astrology/geomancy is lost to man due to its complexity of its algorithms.

As it stands today, based on expariments conducted by scientists around the world in a quest to accredit astrology as a science, no one can give an accurate mathematical formulae of prediction, as no one got all the indices of raw datas.

Results of those who insist on & practice the scientific/mathematical approach is plague with inconsistencies & inaccuracies.

Those among whom accuracy is found are those who go spiritual. They get the spiritual entities to do the calculations since they have faster & more powerful capabilities & then relay the ensuing results to them.

But sadly, today those with access to this method are few. Majority of those parading themselves are mere con artists. Thats for astrology/geomancy.

Other common method usually used by them alfa & alawos alike is enlisting the service of a powerful jinn, ruhaniyya, angel as the case may be, who has the capabilities of compelling & infiltrating the network of the QAREENS in other to glean infos from them.

They are the types you see telling you all what you are about before you open your mouth to say anything.

They hack the QAREEN to get infos.

Raintaker:
Jazaka lahu khayran.

Something not conforming with one's nature is a spiritual aspect that the mechanical readers/followers will also like to deny.
Thanks.

Ofcourse, GOD said in Q2:216
That we might hate something beneficial to us while we may also like something thats harmful to us, he said he knows & we dont.

There is proof for that in the Quran & that the purpose of istikhara in the first place.

The DIFF between a SCIENTIFIC APPROACH & a LOTTERY APPROACH to DIVINATION

#The former is based on REALISTIC method by utilizing RAW DATA FACTS through EFFORT while the later runs on UNREALISTIC method by using some or none of the RAW DATA FACTS through CHANCE.

The former is based on facts (science) & can be re-proved again & again, its relaibility is immuned from the changes associated with place & time.

The later is based on chance & falsehood (arts) the reliability of which can change within the space of a second.

A typical example of the two, used on a single QUERY......brb

***QUERY : e.g Lets say, a certain lady on a certain THURSDAY, wants to know what day of the week the 15663th day, from the day of the inquiry, falls on.

Now the QUESITED matter is futuristic & we want to know what colour of day it is before it approaches.

INDICES---

***RAW DATA FACT is = 7

***QUESITED DATA is = 15663

##SCIENTIFIC/REALISTIC :- This approach would utilize simple arithmetics to divide the QUESITED no. by RAW DATA no. & arrive @ 4. Counting from THURSDAY reveals the QUESITED day to be MONDAY. Now we know its MONDAY long before it approaches.

##ARTISTIC/UNREALISTIC :- This method would disregard the QUESITED no. & utilize only the RAW DATA no. simply by secretly labeling 7 lots (arrows or whatever) from MONDAY to SUNDAY & requires that you blindly pick one.

Now the odds of 7 to 1 is 12.5% which is very unfortunate.

Imagine deciding a life/death matter by such wild & reckless system ? It would surely lead to fitna.

Thats why GOD in Q5:90-91 categorized GAMBLING, LOTTERY, IDOLATRY & ALCOHOL in one group & labeled them “work of the devil. To cause mischief among men“ coz they all have one thing in common & thats senslesness.

#Now, all those alfas that will fold tesbih & ask you to pick one & those using oujia board, tarot cards etc all rely on guesswork & your chance of being fortunate depends solely on that chance. These people have destroyed alot of homes, families, friendships by accusing the wrong persons of things they know absolutely nothing about.

******

All matter whose RAW DATA FACTS are certain, can be accurately predicted with 100% precision all things being equal.

Science doesnt lie unless the DATAS are not complete & accurate.

Science is the format on which the orders of natural laws are based, SCIENCE is what GOD refered to in the QURAN as his TRADITION (SUNNAH).

He said we would never find any alteration or inconsistency in his TRADITION.

So, we should blame the SCIENTISTS for inconsistencies & not SCIENCE.

^^

Subhanallah! truly understand this

ikupakuti:
***QUERY : e.g Lets say, a certain lady on a certain THURSDAY, wants to know what day of the week the 15663th day, from the day of the inquiry, falls on.

Now the QUESITED matter is futuristic & we want to know what colour of day it is before it approaches.

INDICES---

***RAW DATA FACT is = 7

***QUESITED DATA is = 15663

##SCIENTIFIC/REALISTIC :- This approach would utilize simple arithmetics to divide the QUESITED no. by RAW DATA no. & arrive @ 4. Counting from THURSDAY reveals the QUESITED day to be MONDAY. Now we know its MONDAY long before it approaches.

##ARTISTIC/UNREALISTIC :- This method would disregard the QUESITED no. & utilize only the RAW DATA no. simply by secretly labeling 7 lots (arrows or whatever) from MONDAY to SUNDAY & requires that you blindly pick one.

Now the odds of 7 to 1 is 12.5% which is very unfortunate.

Imagine deciding a life/death matter by such wild & reckless system ? It would surely lead to fitna.

Thats why GOD in Q5:90-91 categorized GAMBLING, LOTTERY, IDOLATRY & ALCOHOL in one group & labeled them “work of the devil. To cause mischief among men“ coz they all have one thing in common & thats senslesness.

#Now, all those alfas that will fold tesbih & ask you to pick one & those using oujia board, tarot cards etc all rely on guesswork & your chance of being fortunate depends solely on that chance. These people have destroyed alot of homes, families, friendships by accusing the wrong persons of things they know absolutely nothing about.

******

All matter whose RAW DATA FACTS are certain, can be accurately predicted with 100% precision all things being equal.

Science doesnt lie unless the DATAS are not complete & accurate.

Science is the format on which the orders of natural laws are based, SCIENCE is what GOD refered to in the QURAN as his TRADITION (SUNNAH).

He said we would never find any alteration or inconsistency in his TRADITION.

So, we should blame the SCIENTISTS for inconsistencies & not SCIENCE.

Sheikhuna you 've come again with your eye probing and thought provoking discuss!. May Allah increase you in knowledge. When I was reading this before getting to the bolded I was like thinking that might be what ALLAH is referring to as HIS Sunnah, and lo! you make that statement!

Actually, we Muslim's ought to be the leading scientists of the contemporary world, but lack of understanding and focus and excessive hubris tend to robbed off our higher IDEALS.

When ever I think about anything in the purview of man to KNOW about the future, I always believed is ONLY in that context man can peep and see beyond. Aligning their thought only in the DIRECTION of possibility of Allah s Sunnah REPEATATIVE or RE-OCCURENCE tendencies, which HE(swt ) had vow we will never find any change in it.

In retrospect, there are ways and manner in which ALLAH dealt with the Prophets in which a thorough study of their lives will REVEAL how ALLAH always deal with them. These are HISTORICAL DATA and FACTS which brings about the case of an accurate forecast of Waraqa ibn Nawfal (Hadrat Khadijah's uncle). Telling the Prophet (saw) that his message will be met with hostilities and even he will be ousted. The rest is history.

By extension, what would you say about the sunnah of ALLAH concerning HIS AWLIYAHs?

Thanks