₦airaland Forum

SmartyPants:
Can you support this with any evidence at all?

flex04:
hmmm see dis one too dat calls him self christain ...dnt u knw dat we still live on the laws of moses and de grace of christ jus as fresh as both of dem gave them to us


wen we break de laws of moses heaven condems us fr it and wen we ask fr de grace of christ heaven gves it us

jesus did nt gve us any law just becos moses gave all to us

lonikit:
Levite's are equivalent to full time pastors in this generation. there are pastors who do not do anytin aside the work of God.

lonikit:
so are u saying old testament is not relevant again??

SUPERPACK:
modern day tithe is simply an indoctrination by the pope and church, do the levites still exist?

SUPERPACK:
modern day tithe is simply an indoctrination by the pope and church, do the levites still exist?

Leocent:
jesus gave new laws summarising all laws:
Love God with all your heart ... And love your neighbour as ynurself. Though not on tithes.

pweetiedee:
Thank you o... That verse is like the only verse in the old testament the pastors know.

didn't they say 'old things have passed away"

na dem talk am na.

FA13:
Christ himself said he didn't come to break the law but to fulfil it.

We are now under the law of liberty. What they were struggling to achieve under the law that they were not able, we can do easily under the grace.

lonikit:
Malachi 3:10 KJV
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it .


James 1:27 KJV
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.


I have observed that the first reference is more preached in the churches more than the second.
this thread is not meant to mock but to correct the habit of selective teaching of the word of God.

xest:
law to who? After christ death are we still living under the law?

SUPERPACK:
modern day tithe is simply an indoctrination by the pope and church, do the levites still exist?

onojiwizardgmailcom:
the law is still valid, for Christ said he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. The reason why I believe most Christians think the law died with Christ death is because of what I call the misinterpretation of Paul teaching where he said "we are justified by faith and not by law". This is what I believe Paul was saying when he said you are justified by faith
1. Faith in God draws you closer to God as it increase your love for God.
2. As your faith in God grows the Spirit of God is born in you by virtue of your steadfast love for God.
3. Sin dies and become alien to you when your love for God becomes grounded and strong. basically the law becomes fulfilled in you.
Remember Paul said shall we continue to sin so that grace will abide, he then said God forbid he said this long after Christ death so the law is still valid in a Christians life.
what encompass all laws is what Jesus said when he said love your neighbour as your self (though this also does not mean then end of law).
1. You shall have no other God before me.
if you Love God you will have know other but him

2. You shall not make any graven images.
if Love God you will make no image and bow to it as god to you

3. You shall not use the Lord's Name in vain.
if you Love God you will not use his name in vain

4. Remember to keep Sabbath day holy.
if you Love God you will keep his sabbath holy

5. Honour your father and mother.
if you Love your Parents you will honour them

6. You shall not commit murder.
if you Love your neighbour as your self you will not do this

7. You shall not commit adultery.
if you Love your neighbour as your self you will not sleep with his wife or her husband

8. You shall not steal.
if you Love your neighbour as your self you will not steal his property

9. You shall not bear false witness against your
neighbour.
if you Love your neighbour as your self you will not do this

10. You shall not covet
if you Love your neighbour as your self you will not do this
therefore the Spirit of God in you born of your grounded and deep rooted FAITH and LOVE for the Almighty God helps you fulfill the law.

onojiwizardgmailcom:
the law is still valid, for Christ said he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. The reason why I believe most Christians think the law died with Christ death is because of what I call the misinterpretation of Paul teaching where he said "we are justified by faith and not by law". This is what I believe Paul was saying when he said you are justified by faith
1. Faith in God draws you closer to God as it increase your love for God.
2. As your faith in God grows the Spirit of God is born in you by virtue of your steadfast love for God.
3. Sin dies and become alien to you when your love for God becomes grounded and strong. basically the law becomes fulfilled in you.
Remember Paul said shall we continue to sin so that grace will abide, he then said God forbid he said this long after Christ death so the law is still valid in a Christians life.
what encompass all laws is what Jesus said when he said love your neighbour as your self (though this also does not mean then end of law).
1. You shall have no other God before me.
if you Love God you will have know other but him

2. You shall not make any graven images.
if Love God you will make no image and bow to it as god to you

3. You shall not use the Lord's Name in vain.
if you Love God you will not use his name in vain

4. Remember to keep Sabbath day holy.
if you Love God you will keep his sabbath holy

5. Honour your father and mother.
if you Love your Parents you will honour them

6. You shall not commit murder.
if you Love your neighbour as your self you will not do this

7. You shall not commit adultery.
if you Love your neighbour as your self you will not sleep with his wife or her husband

8. You shall not steal.
if you Love your neighbour as your self you will not steal his property

9. You shall not bear false witness against your
neighbour.
if you Love your neighbour as your self you will not do this

10. You shall not covet
if you Love your neighbour as your self you will not do this
therefore the Spirit of God in you born of your grounded and deep rooted FAITH and LOVE for the Almighty God helps you fulfill the law.

seanbaba23:
Jesus Christ encouraged us to still tithe even I'm the New Testament n encouraged not to neglect other part of doctrines.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Matthew:23:23.

seanbaba23:
Jesus Christ encouraged us to still tithe even I'm the New Testament n encouraged not to neglect other part of doctrines.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Matthew:23:23.

BluntBoy:
The mistake most people make about the verse is the context.

What Jesus meant by not coming to abolish the law is that He has not come to oppose it or to stand in judgement of it. He only came to fulfil it. And yes, He did fulfil it. And remember that He said nothing will change about the Law until He fulfills it.

Now, Jesus Himself said He has come to fulfil the Law. He Himself said the Law would remain as it is until He had fulfilled it. Now, that you insist that the Law is still valid, are you trying to say that Jesus failed to fulfil it.

lonikit:
tithe is biblical. it was a law by God himself

onojiwizardgmailcom:
Jesus’ statement in Matthew 5:18 makes it even clearer that He did not come to destroy or nullify the law: “For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.” Here, Jesus compared the continuance of the law to the permanence of heaven and earth. He is saying that God’s spiritual laws are immutable and indestructible. When He said till all is fulfilled He Christ was talking of His second coming end of all things.
In Matthew 5:18. Jesus here explains that until God’s plan to glorify humanity in His Kingdom is completely accomplished, that is, as long as there are still fleshly human beings, the physical codification of God’s law in Scripture is necessary and is as certain to endure as the continued existence of the universe.

eelipumpin:
I get u. a lot has gone wrong in Christendom but we can do our bit to help. Even in the old testaments. Widows, the poor and fatherles never pay tithes but today. The church makes sure that even the jobless pay tithes.

seunmsg:
The part in bold is false. We really should stop this scare mongering way of defrauding gullible people. Dangote is the richest man in Nigeria. He's a Muslim and doesn't pay tithe.

I stopped paying tithe and going to church all together since 2010 and my financial position keeps improving year after year. I have also not been admitted for any sickness since then. Tithe is the biggest scam in the world, stop deceiving people to part with their money.

Backinfront:
SUNDAY SERMON: THE TRUTH ABOUT TITHING


I came across this piece on a Whatsapp page and it so represented my views on tithing that I could have written it myself. Please enjoy the read!

The Trial of Pastor Jones (Author unknown)

Judge: Mr. Jones you have been charged with multiple counts of extortion. Your crime spree covers 20 years and thousands of victims. You have defrauded people out of their money with fear and manipulation, telling them they had to tithe 10% of their income as per the LAW to your Regd. organization (called Church) and that God would bless them if they did. You also told them that if they didn't tithe God would curse them.

How do you plead?

Mr. Jones: I plead not guilty your Honor, I have done nothing wrong. I have only preached what the Bible says. In the Bible Abraham tithed to Melchizedek and God blessed him for his faithful giving. The Bible even says he was rich in silver and gold.

Judge: Is it not true, Mr. Jones, that in Genesis Chapter 13 verse 2 the Bible says Abraham was rich with livestock, silver and gold?

Mr. Jones: Yes, you are exactly right, that's what I just told you.

Judge: Ok, we read about Abraham being a rich man in chapter 13 but it is not until Genesis chapter 14 that we read about Abraham's tithe to Melchizedek. So Abraham was already a rich man before he tithed to Melchizedek, wasn't he?

Mr. Jones: Yes, I suppose you are right.

Judge: So his riches were not the result of his tithe to Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: No.

Judge: Mr. Jones, you also say God blessed him for his faithful giving. How many times is it recorded that Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: Well, just once.

Judge: So the Bible never said that he gave week after week?

Mr. Jones: No it does not.

Judge: Where did Abraham get the things that he gave to Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: Well the Bible says it was from the plunders of war?

Judge: So you are telling me that he gave from the plunders of war?

Mr. Jones: Yes that's what the Bible says.

Judge: So he basically took things that were not really his in the first place and gave them as the tithe?

Mr. Jones: That is what the scripture seems to indicate.

Judge: Is it recorded that he ever took anything from his own possessions and tithed them to Melchizedek or anyone else?

Mr. Jones: I guess not

Judge: You guess not, you are a teacher and you are only guessing, is it or is it not written that he ever gave any of his own possessions as a tithe to anyone?

Mr. Jones: No it is not written anywhere that I have seen.

Judge: Is it recorded as to what exactly Abraham did give Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: I believe it says plunder?

Judge: So plunder could be any number of things?

Mr. Jones: Yes, I suppose

Judge: It could have been food, cattle, sheep, the people's possessions or any number of things. It does not say it was all money correct?

Mr. Jones: Yes you are correct, it does not say just money

Judge: As a matter of fact money is never mentioned in that account at all is that correct Mr. Jones?

Mr. Jones: Yes your Honor, money is never mentioned just goods and food and people.

Judge: So there is no way you can say with any certainty that Abraham in fact gave Melchizedek any money at all?

Mr. Jones: That is right.

Judge: I only have one last question for you
Mr. Jones, did God command Abraham to give this plunder tithe to Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: No, it appears that he did this voluntarily.

Judge: So are you trying to tell me that because of this voluntary, one time gift by Abraham, that may not have even consisted of money, all Christians everywhere are obligated to bring 10% of their weekly paycheck to a local Regd.Organization-church?
Considering all the evidence I would say you are beyond any shadow of a doubt guilty of deliberately trying to make the scriptures says things they have not said for financial gain.

Mr. Jones: Ok your Honor, I can see how foolish I was to try and use the story of Melchizedeck to try and get the people to tithe money. But there are many other verses that will support my belief on tithing. Jacob said he would give God 10% of everything. I think we should follow his example.

Judge: Let's see what Jacob said. Please read the verse you are talking about for me Mr. Jones.

Mr. Jones: In Genesis chapter 28 starting at verse 20 it says. Jacob vowed a vow, saying, "If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and clothing to put on, so that I come again to my father's house in peace, and Yahweh will be my God, then this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, will be God's house. Of all that you will give me I will surely give the tenth to you."

Judge: You said we should follow Jacobs example, is that right Mr. Jones?

Mr. Jones: Yes that is right, he vowed to give a tenth and we should too.

Judge: Let me point out one thing for you Mr. Jones, Jacob said he would Give God a tenth, ONLY if He blessed him first. So as you said previously, we should follow Jacob's example and tell God that we will only give him a tenth if he blesses us first. Is that right?

Mr. Jones: That is not what I meant.

Judge: What did you mean then?

Mr. Jones: That we should give God a tenth also.

Judge: There you go again, trying to make the scripture say what you want it to say for your benefit. I would also like you to tell me the scriptures that say that Jacob kept his vow with God. I would also like to know where he gave the tenth to because there was no temple or levites to give it to at that time.

Mr. Jones: I can not think of any scriptures that say where or if he ever tithed after his vow.

Judge: It seems fairly obvious to me that Jacob made a voluntary and conditional vow to God. This in no way can be used as a reason to demand others to bring their income to you or any other place.

Mr. Jones: I do have a few more scriptures that I believe will show that we are supposed to tithe.

Judge: You have not said anything yet to convince me one little bit that people are obligated to tithe money to the local organizational institutions -churches and that you were justified in what you were doing. You have taken scripture and misapplied it to your beliefs and for your gain. But in order to be fair to you I will allow you to present more evidence.

Mr. Jones: In the book of Malachi chapter 3 starting at verse 8 it says, will a man rob God? yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, In what have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the store-house, that there may be food in my house, and prove me now with this, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. So you see your Honor, we are commanded to bring the tithes into the storehouse or God will curse us.

Judge: Answer me this Mr Jones, Who was God Speaking to here?

Mr Jones: To the People of Israel

Judge: Can you please read Malachi 2: 1 Please Mr Jones

Mr Jones: Now This command is for you O PRIEST !!

Judge: Did God stop talking to the Priest in Chap. 3, Mr Jones?

Mr Jones: No your Honor!

[color=greem]Judge[/color]: Answer me this Mr. Jones, were you aware that God never required anyone to tithe money?

Mr. Jones: No I didn't know that.

Judge: The tithe spoken of here was always edible products never money.

Mr. Jones: Well your Honor that is because they didn't have money at the time so God had them tithe food instead.

Judge: Not true, money is first mentioned in Genesis and Malachi was written hundreds of years later. God had them bring food in so that the levites, the fatherless and widows may eat and be satisfied. The tithe was used mainly to take care of people. Also notice it says in the verse you quoted, that there may be food in my house. The food was the tithe. How do you completely overlook the word food in those verses?

Mr. Jones: I don't know

Judge: I also want you to know that these verses speak to nation under the Old Testament law. As you may or may not know Jesus fulfilled the law, it is no longer binding. Once again you have tried to completely take a scripture out of context and apply it to others for your benefit. Can you give me a single scripture where God changed the tithe from food to money?

Mr. Jones: I do not know of any.

Judge: So if God never changed it from food to money who did?

Mr. Jones: Man must have.

Judge: So far all you have done Mr. Jones, is take Old Testament scriptures out of context and try to apply it to believers under the New Covenant. Is this all the proof you have?

Mr. Jones: I do have a New Testament scripture that will show that Jesus told us to tithe.

Judge: Ok let me hear it.

Mr. Jones: Jesus said in Matthew 23:23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith. But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone. See Jesus said we should be tithing.

Judge: Let me ask you a question, who was Jesus talking to?

Mr. Jones: The scripture says the Scribes and Pharisees.

Judge: Are you a scribe or Pharisee?

Mr. Jones: Of course not.

Judge: Jesus also said in that passage, you have left undone the weightier matters of the law. Are we under the law Mr. Jones?

Mr. Jones: No.

Judge: Why not?

Mr. Jones: Because Jesus fulfilled it.

Judge: When did Jesus fulfill the law?

Mr. Jones: When He was crucified.

Judge: So the law was still in effect until Jesus death?

Mr. Jones: That is correct.

Judge: I think you know where I am going with this don't you?

Mr. Jones: Yes your Honor. Since Jesus had not yet been crucified and the law was still binding the Pharisees were required to tithe because it was part of the law. Once the law ended, tithing ended also.

Judge: I want you to take a look at that verse again. Also tell me, what were they tithing?

Mr. Jones: The scripture says it was mint, dill and cumin.

Judge: Is money mentioned?

Mr. Jones: No it was not.

Judge: Once again it was edible products that they were tithing, not money. Do you have anything else you would like to say?

Mr. Jones: If people only tithed edible products like the scripture says, then how would the church survive? We have our mortgage payment, utility bills, staff salary and a host of other things that we have to pay each week. We depend on the money from the people.

Judge: By "church" you mean your organization isn't it Mr Jones ?
-The need does not justify the means. In other words, just because you have all these debts does not give you the right to twist and manipulate scripture and cause people to give under fear of being cursed by God to meet your needs. Does It Mr Jones?
In closing, let me recap a few things for you Mr. Jones.
-The tithe was never money;
-The tithe was an Old Testament law, which is no longer binding. When it was binding the tithe was used to take care of people, not buildings.
- We are under a new covenant now.
Paul instructs the Corinthian believers how they are to give. He says in second Corinthians chapter 9 verse 7, Let each man give according as he has determined in his heart; not grudgingly, or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver. So each believer is supposed to give as he or she has determined in his or her heart.
If they determine to Give 10% well and good, If they keep aside some every week to meet this more better.If you are trying to make people give under the threat of being cursed or any other reason even blessing, you are wrong. Someone can not give cheerfully if they are being forced to give. If 'your church can not survive on freewill offerings maybe God is not part of your church at all.
Mr Jones, do you intentionally put your people under a Curse or a Bondage?

Mr Jones: Of Course not !!

Judge: Can you Read in context Gal 3:10-11: For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them ....
AND
Gal 5:1-4 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage....

Mr. Jones: I never realized all these things, I have always been taught that we had to tithe money to the local church and that is what I have always taught. I can see now that I was completely wrong. I did not study the scripture for myself, I only took mans word for it.
Yes ' am guilty. I will not teach this error anymore.
Sentencing....... All Arise .....

MISSCONGENIALITY:
They will not read this because their daddy has brainwashed them to pay tithes. And they has aslso refused to study the word but have decided to do as their daddy has told them. They obey their daddy more than God. They chose to be church memebers than Christians.
Karl Max was right when he referee to religion as th option of the masses. It's injected into them to make them do what the rulers want of them. When they people want to rebel, they will quote a verse from the bible to keep them calm. They agree to remain mental slaves by not reasoning and questioning some of the things they are told by their religious ruler not leaders this time. They are told not to question things of God because God doesn't like it. Yet will tell them to God and ask the unquestionable God if the suitor asking for their hand in marriage is a good one.
Gullibility is a sin especially gene you are gullible and you know it and yet you refuse to receive sense.


Your comment killed it. But they won't look at it

AFONAMARO:
Was a winner for years before leaving.
No poor man's child/children were given scholarship all the years I spent there. No allow me talk abeg

luxy44:
Dangote doesn't pay tithe, Otedola, Adenuga, Bill Gate also. They are richer than your generation, and they are healthy. Stop commercializing miracles!

BluntBoy:
For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God. (Romans 10:4)

onojiwizardgmailcom:
(a) For Christ is the end of the law (b) for righteousness to every one that believeth. (Romans 10:4)KJV
(a) Paul was just restating what Christ said in Mathew where he said he came to fulfil the law, which I already told you that Christ was talking about his second coming.
(b) Paul is talking about what i stated in my first post, that believing (faith) in God (Christ) bore the Holy Spirit in you, which leads to the fulfilment of the law in you.
I understand the fear of many Christian about the law, it is I believe that the law requires perfection as stated by James in the book of James. the mercy and grace of God is sufficient for us all, but shall we continue to sin so that grace might abide, no God forbid. this is Paul's statement long after Christ has gone to heaven, sin only exist where there is law. this sims like a contradiction right, there is no contradiction your salvation is by faith but this is a process which I have already explained in my first post. read Gal. 15:13-16

You were called to freedom,
brethren; only do not turn your
freedom into an opportunity for
the flesh, but through love serve
one another. 14 For the whole Law
is fulfilled in one word, in the
statement, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR
NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' 15 But if
you bite and devour one another,
take care lest you be consumed by
one another. 16 But I say, walk by
the Spirit, and you will not carry
out the desire of the flesh.

Hence the Spirit of God in you through faith in God helps you overcome sin or flesh (fulfill the law).