₦airaland Forum

Akin1212:
1) Your point was that there is a force that kills microorganisms. You stated categorically that the force which kills all microorganisms do because it was created to do so. But the force doesn't kill microorganisms most times. Why?
I specifically asked you about the death microorganisms not mishaps in the environment, we are still coming there. Don't bury me before I die.

2) You speak of imbalance, what is this imbalance and how is it caused? You must know what you are talking about before you venture into it.

3)Imbecile_ energy, how did you know that this energy is an imbecile_? Imbecile_ is a term used to categorize people with low IQ. But this energy is not even conscious, how can something not conscious be imbecile_? You don't even know what energy is, like I said earlier, go back to pages 2,3, and 4.

4) How could you see this world and call it intelligent manifestations? There is nothing about the world that is intelligent, have you seen the Bermuda triangle? Is that an intelligent design to you?
Or you're confusing artificial intelligence to nature? If you were to create the world, would you create it with the tragedies it came with?

You don't have to do anything before tragedy can strike you.

you are not even aware that you are killing some microorganisms in your body processes. That you are not doing the killing deliberately but just found yourself doing it. A force more than you is responsible .
2. The ecology of the relationship between all living and non living things is guided by a law of balance. A deviation brings a manifestation either pleasant or unpleasant like allowing our hypothetical germ above some fertile grounds in our affairs which can lead to an health food like yoghurt or ill health like HIV.

3. when you say an unintelligent and unconscious energy can create intelligent and conscious universe and its not even aware of it ,isn't that worse than imbecility? what is consciousness? Energy is the ability to do work or bring forth manifestations . Being able to bring forth manifestations is a deliberate attribute of a conscious intelligence.
4. Everything about the world is intelligent. Even the chaos that comes with nature has some intelligence behind their being. For example ,isnt man intelligent? Also, from the structure of the micro world as represented by an atom to the the galaxies all show that there is an intelligent force behind these manifestations.

Nobody

Mankind are created by God and given certain level of freewill and responsibility that come long with it.

God details those responsibility like:
Only God is worthy of being worship,
Be dutiful to parent and do good to His creatures. Do not obey Satan and his minions.

Allah tests mankind with goods things and bad things. Like wealth, health, Power, Sickness, Satan lures and suggestion, misfortunes etc.

We mankind are here on earth for a test and the judgement day for results and prizes. To see which of us is best in conducts. God does what He will.

Allah embedded man to instinctively detect what is good and bad. He also sends prophets,righteous men, signposts and holy books to guide man.

OkaiCorne:
Should Science be held at fault for wrongly applied logic?

What kind of question is this?

Who is science?

Do u even know what science is?

Wrongly aplied logic is because of faulty thinking.

Pls do not derail... i am not going to talk some meaningless jargons with u

Ezkid:
Its just absolutely erroneous to say God doesn't know technology or the universe he created isn't perfect, everything is perfect from the beginning but the Devil brought in imperfections from the moment the foundation of the world was laid. Everything will be perfect in the next life that's beyond the reach of the Devil, come to think of it, everything that's necessary for the invention of this so called technology has been loaded and hidden right from the beginning of the world, of all the planets in the universe he designed only earth to sustain life while others are void of it and someone thinks that's coincidence? Hell No! You want to tell me he didn't know humans will develop automobiles and yet he created crude oil "a vital resources which without would make something like such impossible?" beneath the thick earth? Ofcourse I don't need a soothsayer to tell me he knew!!

Oga... if i accept that God exist according to u... can u tell me how u got to know God is one individual? Hw did they are not many or a happy family of Gods? How did u know its definitely not a black smoke of aliens or super balls that created tye universe.
Concluding that God exist is not an answer to anything... its the begining of questions.

frank317:
What kind of question is this?

Who is science?

Do u even know what science is?

Wrongly aplied logic is because of faulty thinking.

Pls do not derail... i am not going to talk some meaningless jargons with u

Be patient, I am pointing your attention to something if you really want to learn.

Is faulty thinking attributable to logic or intuition?

OkaiCorne:
Be patient, I am pointing your attention to something if you really want to learn.

Is faulty thinking attributable to logic or intuition?

wrongly applied logic is attributed to faulty thinking

frank317:
wrongly applied logic is attributed to faulty thinking

Thanks for your patience, we are getting somewhere now. I'll continue from here ASAP

Logic aside, do you also agree that wrong imagination can also lead to faulty thinking?

OkaiCorne:
Thanks for your patience, we are getting somewhere now. I'll continue from here ASAP

Logic aside, do you also agree that wrong imagination can also lead to faulty thinking?

of course

frank317:
of course

Thanks boss...now do you notice how Imaginations lead to faulty thinking and how logic results from faulty thinking?

Do you know that Intuition is faster than logic but may be wrong or right?

Do you know that Logic is slower than Intuition but is almost always right?

Would you prefer to be fast and right than be slow and right?

Please be patient, we are getting somewhere...Just a quick one, are you an atheist or agnostic?

OkaiCorne:
I have bolded this statement of yours again just to give you heads up on the need to combine logic with intuition.

If Logic according to Frank317 is responsible for the creation of the bulb by Edison and logic is always right...How come did Edison fail 1,000 times before getting it right?, should we credit logic for those failures?

If Science has all the answers to life, why was the cure for HIV not discovered by Science at the first attempt?

How did our Ancestors in Africa survive all these while without knowledge of Science?

Don't see my questions as trying to prove you wrong...I think we have gone past arguing...

When are you going to understand what logic is and what intuition is?
You don't need to blend intuition with logic when thinking is concerned.
Edison failed 1,000 times because his logic was not correct 999 times. It's very simple as ABC.

Logic is the boss, intuition just nods when logic is in action. It is logic that will give your intuition a boost. By intuition, you know I am a human being typing on the other side of your screen, you don't need to think to know that. Everything is in the link you posted but you're ignoring it.

Do you know why science has not seen the cure for HIV? Because the virus keeps changing, let's not bring this in because you know little about it, a fact I know that by intuition. And remember I told you that if science can't explain it, then nobody can. Has any ideology found a cure for HIV? NO

And if any ideology would, it would be science, it can't be religion.

Our ancestors practised science but they were not aware of it.

Babacele:
you are not even aware that you are killing some microorganisms in your body processes. That you are not doing the killing deliberately but just found yourself doing it. A force more than you is responsible .
2. The ecology of the relationship between all living and non living things is guided by a law of balance. A deviation brings a manifestation either pleasant or unpleasant like allowing our hypothetical germ above some fertile grounds in our affairs which can lead to an health food like yoghurt or ill health like HIV.

3. when you say an unintelligent and unconscious energy can create intelligent and conscious universe and its not even aware of it ,isn't that worse than imbecility? what is consciousness? Energy is the ability to do work or bring forth manifestations . Being able to bring forth manifestations is a deliberate attribute of a conscious intelligence.
4.[b] Everything about the world is intelligent. Even the chaos that c[/b]omes with nature has some intelligence behind their being. For example ,isnt man intelligent? Also, from the structure of the micro world as represented by an atom to the the galaxies all show that there is an intelligent force behind these manifestations.

1)You are deliberately handing me victory as I said earlier. Force is not a conscious property. If there is a force killing microorganisms involuntarily(Which is wrong) why does it know when to stop and when to act? There are millions of microorganisms in the body that doesn't get killed at all, why is the force skipping these microorganisms? You are treading a wrong path in your knowledge and it's not a good thing at all. Albeit, the killing of microorganisms is not done by a force. It is done by chemicals which our body produces as a result of the invasion. Our body knows that there is an invasion and it produces substances which kill the invader. This is a voluntary action.

2)Lol, why are you turning science upside down? Before we continue this journey, are you a scientist? I am not going to allow you explain what you don't know. It's bad for knowledge. The production of Yoghurt is not a manifestation of any sort as a result of any imbalance, neither is the HIV virus a manifestation. Do not abuse science, I am not going to allow that to happen.

3)This world was not intelligently made, look around you. don't look at the man-made structures, just look. You will see that the world was badly made, we are only trying to make it look good. Energy just formed something and it didn't even know it. Do you know you are made up of nonliving matter? For you to know that everything is energy, try to run 100 miles without eating for 2 days, and let's see if you will not collapse despite that you have a God.

OkaiCorne:
Thanks boss...now do you notice how Imaginations lead to[/b]faulty thinking and how logic [b]results from faulty thinking?

Do you know that Intuition is faster than logic but may be wrong or right?

Do you know that Logic is slower than Intuition but is almost always right?

Would you prefer to be fast and right than be slow and right?

whats ur point

Please be patient, we are getting somewhere...Just a quick one, are you an atheist or agnostic?[/quote]I dont know if a God exist... I have never seen one and i have never had a reasonable explanation of any creator. I think we should stick to accepting we dont know how it all came to be instead of assuming up a creator like u are doing and messing our thinking process up by trying to explain what we asummed up.
Based on lack of knowledge and good explanation... I dont believe any God exist. But i am willing to accept if one reveals himself to me.

u can label me on ur own from the above

Akin1212:
When are you going to understand what logic is and what intuition is?
You don't need to blend intuition with logic when thinking is concerned.
Edison failed 1,000 times because his logic was not correct 999 times. It's very simple as ABC.

Logic is the boss, intuition just nods when logic is in action. It is logic that will give your intuition a boost. By intuition, you know I am a human being typing on the other side of your screen, you don't need to think to know that. Everything is in the link you posted but you're ignoring it.

Do you know why science has not seen the cure for HIV? Because the virus keeps changing, let's not bring this in because you know little about it, a fact I know that by intuition. And remember I told you that if science can't explain it, then nobody can. Has any ideology found a cure for HIV? NO

And if any ideology would, it would be science, it can't be religion.

Our ancestors practised science but they were not aware of it.

Based on the bolded...if you rely on logic alone...what differentiates you from a Robot in terms of thinking?

frank317:


whats ur point

Please be patient, we are getting somewhere...Just a quick one, are you an atheist or agnostic?

I dont know if a God exist... I have never seen one and i have never had a reasonable explanation of any creator. I think we should stick to accepting we dont know how it all came to be instead of assuming up a creator like u are doing and messing our thinking process up by trying to explain what we asummed up.
Based on lack of knowledge and good explanation... I dont believe any God exist. But i am willing to accept if one reveals himself to me.

u can label me on ur own from the above

I see you as someone who is also seeking the TRUTH... I am not comfortable labelling you atheistic or agnostic either.

Be Patient...we are getting somewhere...

Do you know it is possible to train yourself to make accurate decisions with intuition in the absence of COMPLETE DETAILS logic would require?

Akin1212:
You don't process it well at all. T[b]he basics of science can provide answers to everything.[/b] The basics of science cannot change and it covers everything you bring up. What science cannot answer has not been known by anybody. Which logically means nothing, as far as the universe and space are concerned. If science can't answer it, then nothing can.

I bolded the above comment of yours just to remind of what I have been repeating over and over again. If the answer to complex matters lies in the basics, why can't you accept the countless basic examples I have given you on the existence of an Eternal Creator?

Why can't you give me a basic example to counter the examples I gave you earlier? why?

OkaiCorne:
Do you know it is possible to train yourself to make accurate decisions with intuition in the absence of COMPLETE DETAILS logic would require?

I really dont know what this means... please can u explain further. why would there be complete absence of details logic would need? where will the details go?

OkaiCorne:
Based on the bolded...if you rely on logic alone...what differentiates you from a Robot in terms of thinking?

Robots don't think, they don't have a brain. They only make decisions according to what has been programmed by humans. It's all about object-oriented programming and machine learning.

If this is A, say A
If input is B say No
If 1 is less than input, say you have not eaten.

Humans are not like that, humans think their logic, robots have theirs programmed.

I was disappointed with the question, but I assumed you didn't know, hence I did justice to it. Are we clear now?

OkaiCorne:
I bolded the above comment of yours just to remind of what I have been repeating over and over again. If the answer to complex matters lies in the basics, why can't you accept the countless basic examples I have given you on the existence of an Eternal Creator?

Why can't you give me a basic example to counter the examples I gave you earlier? why?

Because your examples are not related to the matter of discussion and because your examples are not logical. They are based on intuition which is not applicable.

frank317:
I really dont know what this means... please can u explain further. why would there be complete absence of details logic would need? where will the details go?

Let us go through your memory lane for instance.

Are there instances where you have been forced to make a quick decision based on your intuition (instincts)? You did not have details of what was happening but you had to make a decision?

Akin1212:
Because your examples are not related to the matter of discussion and because your examples are not logical. They are based on intuition which is not applicable.

Is it logical to have a story without a beginning? I am asking you a logical question now...no intuition is needed for this.

OkaiCorne:
Is it logical to have a story without a beginning? I am asking you a logical question now...no intuition is needed for this.

This is not an example, it is a question. Even though it doesn't relate to the discussion of whether there is a God or not. If you want to start asking questions, answer the ones before you.

Akin1212:
1)You are deliberately handing me victory as I said earlier. Force is not a conscious property. If there is a force killing microorganisms involuntarily(Which is wrong) why does it know when to stop and when to act? There are millions of microorganisms in the body that doesn't get killed at all, why is the force skipping these microorganisms? You are treading a wrong path in your knowledge and it's not a good thing at all. Albeit, the killing of microorganisms is not done by a force. It is done by chemicals which our body produces as a result of the invasion. Our body knows that there is an invasion and it produces substances which kill the invader. This is a voluntary action.

2)Lol, why are you turning science upside down? Before we continue this journey, are you a scientist? I am not going to allow you explain what you don't know. It's bad for knowledge. The production of Yoghurt is not a manifestation of any sort as a result of any imbalance, neither is the HIV virus a manifestation. Do not abuse science, I am not going to allow that to happen.

3)This world was not intelligently made, look around you. don't look at the man-made structures, just look. You will see that the world was badly made, we are only trying to make it look good. Energy just formed something and it didn't even know it. Do you know you are made up of nonliving matter? For you to know that everything is energy, try to run 100 miles without eating for 2 days, and let's see if you will not collapse despite that you have a God.

come off it bro. a factor beyond your control is responsible for your biological processes whether it is breathing, digestion or sleeping. Call it chemical or whatever the well coordinated processes kill the microorganisms and spare some and like a well built engine everypart works fine according to the builder's original plan. Why it is like that the engine may never know. Even when sleep, these processes go on without your permission. Oh tell me that it is not an imbalance in the number of a particular colony of bacteria in a quantity of fresh milk that gives yoghurt or that the introduction of a foreign germ ,virus, into our body causes breakdown or imbalance in us we tag HIV?
2. Tell me the most sophisticated and complicated machine on earth - man, is not intelligently made? photosynthesis, DNA structures, electric fish, the eagle , weathering, Rainfall , the planetary bodies etc are a result of an intelligent and unconscious energy?

3. There are different forms of the manifestation of the Universal intelligent force, energy or God. Funning enough I was dumped by a religionist Christian lover few months ago when I referred to God as a Universal intelligent Force. I really damn in love with her but she feels God is a robot meant for only Christians definition alone. So I ask again you again when you sleep are the one controlling your breathing?

Babacele:
come off it bro. a factor beyond your control is responsible for your biological processes whether it is breathing, digestion or sleeping. Call it chemical or whatever the well coordinated processes kill the microorganisms and spare some and like a well built engine everypart works fine according to the builder's original plan. Why it is like that the engine may never know. Even when sleep, these processes go on without your permission. Oh tell me that it is not an imbalance in the number of a particular colony of bacteria in a quantity of fresh milk that gives yoghurt or that the introduction of a foreign germ ,virus, into our body causes breakdown or imbalance in us we tag HIV?
2. Tell me the most sophisticated and complicated machine on earth - man, is not intelligently made? photosynthesis, DNA structures, electric fish, the eagle , weathering, Rainfall , the planetary bodies etc are a result of an intelligent and unconscious energy?

3. There are different forms of the manifestation of the Universal intelligent force, energy or God. Funning enough I was dumped by a religionist Christian lover few months ago when I referred to God as a Universal intelligent Force. I really damn in love with her but she feels God is a robot meant for only Christians definition alone. So I ask again you again when you sleep are the one controlling your breathing?

The person you are arguing with is a Scientist with a background in Biology and Chemistry. If you don't give him links to articles from global leading scientists...He will still disagree with you.

Akin1212:
This is not an example, it is a question. Even though it doesn't relate to the discussion of whether there is a God or not. If you want to start asking questions, answer the ones before you.

You cannot connect the dots? Is that what you are confessing as an atheist right now?

OkaiCorne:
Let us go through your memory lane for instance.

Are there instances where you have been forced to make a quick decision based on your intuition (instincts)? You did not have details of what was happening but you had to make a decision?

The result of decisions made based soley on intuition are usually based on luck... the result could be positive or nagative and dependent solely on other factors. Its like gambling... throwing ur dice because u have a feeling it will display a high number.

One good thing about logic is that it puts all fators in control for its own advantage

frank317:
The result of decisions made based soley on intuition are usually based on luck... the result could be positive or nagative and dependent solely on other factors. Its like gambling... throwing ur dice because u have a feeling it will display a high number.

One good thing about logic is that it puts all fators in control for its own advantage

Perfect! Now we are getting somewhere! I'll be back shortly. I'm in transit right now.

Please and please, I am not asking to believe in an Eternal Creator, I just want you to use a combination of logic and intuition to come up with a convincing argument that there is no Eternal Creator. Do you understand me? I want to learn something from you.

OkaiCorne:
Perfect! Now we are getting somewhere! I'll be back shortly. I'm in transit right now.

Please and please, I am not asking to believe in an Eternal Creator, I just want you to use a combination of logic and intuition to come up with a convincing argument that there is no Eternal Creator. Do you understand me? I want to learn something from you.

U asked me if i was an atheist or agnostic and this was my reply below


I dont know if a God exist... I have never seen one and i have never had a reasonable explanation of any creator. I think we should stick to accepting we dont know how it all came to be instead of assuming up a creator like u are doing and messing our thinking process up by trying to explain what we asummed up.
Based on lack of knowledge and good explanation... I dont believe any God exist. But i am willing to accept if one reveals himself to me.[i][/i]

U already have ur answer to the question above...

I am getting frustrated with ur thinking and some how its making me quite sad that such a promising young man can be this shallow.

I have asked you to be careful when u let ur imaginations run wide. Assuming there is a creator brings up many questions like some that i have been asking

Saying there must be a creator is not a solution to how we came... its just a bogus make believe statement... it only makes sense if u can say resonable things about this creator.

I assumed i have passed the stage of weather a creator exists or not with u for long.

I have always made my stand clear that we should accept we are ignorant of how we came while waiting and working towards more information. But if u want to confidently conclude there is one... then i will be glad and will like to take a step further in u telling me things about this creator u are so confident about... if u cant tell me things about it... dont lie to me that there is one because ur assumptions cannot take us anywhere.

frank317:
U asked me if i was an atheist or agnostic and this was my reply below


I dont know if a God exist... I have never seen one and i have never had a reasonable explanation of any creator. I think we should stick to accepting we dont know how it all came to be instead of assuming up a creator like u are doing and messing our thinking process up by trying to explain what we asummed up.
Based on lack of knowledge and good explanation... I dont believe any God exist. But i am willing to accept if one reveals himself to me.[i][/i]

U already have ur answer to the question above...

I am getting frustrated with ur thinking and some how its making me quite sad that such a promising young man can be this shallow.

I have asked you to be careful when u let ur imaginations run wide. Assuming there is a creator brings up many questions like some that i have been asking

Saying there must be a creator is not a solution to how we came... its just a bogus make believe statement... it only makes sense if u can say resonable things about this creator.

I assumed i have passed the stage of weather a creator exists or not with u for long.

I have always made my stand clear that we should accept we are ignorant of how we came while waiting and working towards more information. But if u want to confidently conclude there is one... then i will be glad and will like to take a step further in u telling me things about this creator u are so confident about... if u cant tell me things about it... dont lie to me that there is one because ur assumptions cannot take us anywhere.

Do you understand how Intuition forms a part of my conclusions on an Eternal Creator? Do you really want to know? The answer is very simple even if there are no exact details for logic to feast up on.

Are you ready for my answer?

frank317:
The result of decisions made based soley on intuition are usually based on luck... the result could be positive or nagative and dependent solely on other factors. Its like gambling... throwing ur dice because u have a feeling it will display a high number.

One good thing about logic is that it puts all fators in control for its own advantage

Back to this...let us go back to the basics.

Intuition is very fast but may be right or wrong.
Logic is slow in the face of incomplete details but when these details are available, it would always lead you to the right answer.
Logic, no matter how slow is still essential in confirming whether your intuition is right or wrong.

The gap between the speed of intuition and logic is TIME.

Instead of Atheists and Theists shouting over who is right or wrong...why not let TIME be the judge?

The opinion of an atheist or theist does not change the TRUTH from being the TRUTH

OkaiCorne:
Do you understand how Intuition forms a part of my conclusions on an Eternal Creator?

is intuition a reliable source of truth? we have gone over and over on how intuition without logic is just a wide guess... yet u are still on about intuition.

Do you really want to know? The answer is very simple even if there are no exact details for logic to feast up on.

Are you ready for my answer?

yes... talk to me and let me get it over with...

frank317:
is intuition a reliable source of truth? we have gone over and over on how intuition without logic is just a wide guess... yet u are still on about intuition.



yes... talk to me and let me get it over with...

Do you understand me when I say INTUITION+LOGIC=INSIGHT


Read that post carefully where I stated "intuition formed A PART of my conclusion"

Did you go through my last post at all? Logic will confirm intuition with time. TIME is the best judge on my conclusion and NOT YOUR OPINION Whether you think I am right or wrong...I don't care. Let TIME judge me...

Now get ready for my answer which is just COMMON SENSE. I didn't read fables from a religious book to arrive at my conclusion.

I'll be back shortly.