In our attempt to interpret God’s word, we must watch out for the tendencies of logic to be false, for I must state that this doctrine is more of the product of logic than of the Holy Spirit. We must learn to depend on the Spirit to make clear God’s mind in scripture.
The doctrine of ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED stress the following facts:
1. You cannot lose your salvation
2. Your past, present and future sins have been forgiven.
3. Confession of sins is irrelevant since they’ve all been forgiven.
4. Guilt in the conscience has been dealt with forever.
5. Work(faith that works) is totally irrelevant.

In a jiffy we shall be examining this thoughts from the search light of the word.
You see the first thing wrong with this doctrine is that there is no place in Scripture that flat-out teaches you cannot lose your salvation. It is a product of an interpretation gotten from certain texts lifted out of their literal and biblical context. If my interpretation of a particular text disagrees with other texts interpreted contextually, then there is a problem.

For instance to interpret John 10:28-29 correctly, I’ll have to examine the text in its literal and biblical context….
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.
In his words, Jesus wasn’t just referring to those who proclaim they are saved, he was speaking of those who had been chosen by the sovereign will of the Father and are totally surrendered to his Lordship. However, what is eternal life? Let’s See Jn 17:2-3

2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him. 3 Now this is eternal life: that they KNOW YOU, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
What does Jesus mean by “that they KNOW YOU”? To have an insight into how our knowledge(Gk: epignosis) of Jesus relates to eternal life, we’ll have to go back to Chpt 15 :5

“5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.”
This is no ordinary relationship. It connotes our union or relationship with Christ.
V.6 says 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.”

The parable of the vine and branches makes it unmistakably clear that Christ did not believe “once in the vine, always in the vine”. Rather, in this parable Jesus gave his disciples a solemn but loving warning that it is indeed possible for true believers to ultimately abandon faith, turn their backs on Jesus, fail to remain in him and thus thrown into the everlasting fire of hell.

Clevergeo:
In our attempt to interpret God’s word, we must watch out for the tendencies of logic to be false, for I must state that this doctrine is more of the product of logic than of the Holy Spirit. We must learn to depend on the Spirit to make clear God’s mind in scripture.
The doctrine of ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED stress the following facts:
1. You cannot lose your salvation
2. Your past, present and future sins have been forgiven.
3. Confession of sins is irrelevant since they’ve all been forgiven.
4. Guilt in the conscience has been dealt with forever.
5. Work(faith that works) is totally irrelevant.

In a jiffy we shall be ..... ...

WHERE did you get all these FACTS from?

I think there the need to be TRUTHFUL in presenting issues to avoid damnation oneself.

The OP don't know the difference between Enternal Life and the Kingdom of God.
The difference between Gift and Reward.
The difference between Grace and Works.
So OP
Pls try and study the bible with an objective spirit and stop swallowing everything you hear in your church.apart from what you have studied with your spirit.

Lol...I smile in amusement.

I guess you've done more study than myself. It's alright.

Maybe you can do justice to the scriptural verses that were cited.

God bless you!

Bro, you’ve said the truth and nothing but the truth. GOD bless you.

The doctrine of once saved always saved is a teaching from the pit of hell. He that has ears to hear let him hear. Without holiness no man shall see the LORD. Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see GOD. For we are His created in CHRIST JESUS unto every good works.

The plain truth is this: Salvation is ENTIRELY God's work. Any belief to the contrary is an affront to the matchless grace of God.

Anyone who says that man MUST do something or ADD SOMETHING to make God's work complete is the one that is teaching a doctrine from the father of lies.

**********
These are pertinent questions/issues:
1. Can the "New creation" (2 Cor. 5:17) be destroyed?
2. Will God "un-declare" what in his righteousness he has previously declared justified (Rom. 5:1)?
3. Does eternal life (John 3:16) not mean eternal?
4. Will God go back on his promise and cancel the deposit that guarantees eternal life (Eph. 1:13-14)?

********

1. Salvation is not what a person works for.
Salvation is a GIFT from God.

2. For the Christian to lose his salvation then he has to be:
Un-born again
Un-redeemed
Un-justified
Separated from the love of God
God's seal of guarantee removed
God's FREE GIFT withdrawn
Un-etc, etc.

3. If a sin-free life is NECESSARY for salvation, AND that can only be known when a person lives "sin-free" at the point of death, then NOBODY can truly say he is "SAVED" yet and perhaps not really until in eternity.

4. Since sin is "whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it" James 2:10 THEN even ONE SIN disqualifies anyone from claiming a sin-free life.

5. In other words, a person who fails to KEEP one single command of God is GUILTY of sin and will not be considered HOLY before God.

6. SIN is not just murder, adultery, lying, and obvious sins that people usually look at. SIN is both a nature and exists even in thought - "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matt. 5:28. How many Christians can claim they do not sin "in their hearts"?

7. Again, for example, how many Christians can HONESTLY CLAIM to obey Philippians 2: 3-4 "Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others."

8. How many Christians "value others above" themselves?
How many Christians look to "the interests of the others"?
How many can SINCERELY answer in the affirmative to these two questions? And these are God's instructions for the Christian.

10. Therefore to the extent that a Christian FAILS to obey a SINGLE instruction of God - even this: "be anxious for nothing" (Phil. 4:6) - to that extent the Christian has SINNED. Because he has DISOBEYED God's word. And EVERY disobedience is sin.

11. So ANY CHRISTIAN who thinks he qualifies for eternity with God because he lived a sin-free life must be PERFECT!

12. Salvation is therefore either a GIFT through and through or else impossible for man to work for or attain on a basis that INCLUDES man's merit.

plainbibletruth:
The plain truth is this: Salvation is ENTIRELY God's work. Any belief to the contrary is an affront to the matchless grace of God.

Anyone who says that man MUST do something or ADD SOMETHING to make God's work complete is the one that is teaching a doctrine from the father of lies.

**********
These are pertinent questions/issues:
1. Can the "New creation" (2 Cor. 5:17) be destroyed?
2. Will God "un-declare" what in his righteousness he has previously declared justified (Rom. 5:1)?
3. Does eternal life (John 3:16) not mean eternal?
4. Will God go back on his promise and cancel the deposit that guarantees eternal life (Eph. 1:13-14)?

********

1. Salvation is not what a person works for.
Salvation is a GIFT from God.

2. For the Christian to lose his salvation then he has to be:
Un-born again
Un-redeemed
Un-justified
Separated from the love of God
God's seal of guarantee removed
God's FREE GIFT withdrawn
Un-etc, etc.

3. If a sin-free life is NECESSARY for salvation, AND that can only be known when a person lives "sin-free" at the point of death, then NOBODY can truly say he is "SAVED" yet and perhaps not really until in eternity.

4. Since sin is "whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it" James 2:10 THEN even ONE SIN disqualifies anyone from claiming a sin-free life.

5. In other words, a person who fails to KEEP one single command of God is GUILTY of sin and will not be considered HOLY before God.

6. SIN is not just murder, adultery, lying, and obvious sins that people usually look at. SIN is both a nature and exists even in thought - "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matt. 5:28. How many Christians can claim they do not sin "in their hearts"?

7. Again, for example, how many Christians can HONESTLY CLAIM to obey Philippians 2: 3-4 "Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others."

8. How many Christians "value others above" themselves?
How many Christians look to "the interests of the others"?
How many can SINCERELY answer in the affirmative to these two questions? And these are God's instructions for the Christian.

10. Therefore to the extent that a Christian FAILS to obey a SINGLE instruction of God - even this: "be anxious for nothing" (Phil. 4:6) - to that extent the Christian has SINNED. Because he has DISOBEYED God's word. And EVERY disobedience is sin.

11. So ANY CHRISTIAN who thinks he qualifies for eternity with God because he lived a sin-free life must be PERFECT!

12. Salvation is therefore either a GIFT through and through or else impossible for man to work for or attain on a basis that INCLUDES man's merit.

Hmmmm. All you wrote up here makes a lot of sesne, only, there's a little nagging inside of me as i read what The Master said to the Sadisan Chrustians in Rev. 3;

Revelation:3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Pls let's note the bolded. We know that our names are not written in the Book of Life until we become New Creations in Christ. What this means is that, we get Born Again, our names enters into the Book, but the master is saying, if we after having our names written in the book of Life, there's need to endure and Overcome till the end, hence OUR NAMES WILL BE BLOTED OUT FROM THE BOOK OF LIFE.

IF WE ENDURE AND FALL NOT AWAY AFTER WE HAVE BEEN SAVED, THEN OUR NAMES REMIANs IN THE BOOK OF LIFE, but what if we don't endure to the end?

Still to the Sadisan Church, He said in verse chpt3:2. I know WHAT YOU ARE DOING, everyone may thinks you are alive, but you are dead, wake up! You have a little strength left, and it is almost gone, so try to become stronger. I have found out that you are not completely obeying obeying God.

3. Remember the teachings you heard. Hold firmly to it and turn from your sins, if you don't, i will come when you least expect it.

Then in verse 5 He said, those who will endure and overcome to the end He shall not blot out their names from the Book Of Life.


Brother, the people being addressed by the Master here are not the heathens or pagans, but believers in church who had heard the Word, believed and got saved, but returned to their sins.


If we recieve the Word of God, but allow our zeal to cool off, hence; compromise, we can risk having our names blotted out of the Book of Life.

If the Master says, He will not blot out the names of the faithfuls, then He will blot out the names of the unfaithfuls.


This is my believe.

Cc: Mudleylaff. Pls say something here.

Emmanystone:

Hmmmm. All you wrote up here makes a lot of sesne, only, there's a little nagging inside of me as i read what The Master said to the Sadisan Chrustians in Rev. 3;

Revelation:3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Pls let's note the bolded. We know that our names are not written in the Book of Life until we become New Creations in Christ. What this means is that, we get Born Again, our names enters into the Book, but the master is saying, if we after having our names written in the book of Life, there's need to endure and Overcome till the end, hence OUR NAMES WILL BE BLOTED OUT FROM THE BOOK OF LIFE.

IF WE ENDURE AND FALL NOT AWAY AFTER WE HAVE BEEN SAVED, THEN OUR NAMES REMIANs IN THE BOOK OF LIFE, but what if we don't endure to the end?

Still to the Sadisan Church, He said in verse chpt3:2. I know WHAT YOU ARE DOING, everyone may thinks you are alive, but you are dead, wake up! You have a little strength left, and it is almost gone, so try to become stronger. I have found out that you are not completely obeying obeying God.

3. Remember the teachings you heard. Hold firmly to it and turn from your sins, if you don't, i will come when you least expect it.

Then in verse 5 He said, those who will endure and overcome to the end He shall not blot out their names from the Book Of Life.


Brother, the people being addressed by the Master here are not the heathens or pagans, but believers in church who had heard the Word, believed and got saved, but returned to their sins.


If we recieve the Word of God, but allow our zeal to cool off, hence; compromise, we can risk having our names blotted out of the Book of Life.

If the Master says, He will not blot out the names of the faithfuls, then He will blot out the names of the unfaithfuls.

This is my believe.

Cc: Mudleylaff. Pls say something here.

We must be careful to ensure that our interpretation of a text is what the text says, without going beyond what the text says and drawing conclusions based on
inference, suggestion, or the like.

Rev. 3:5 ‘He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

"The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels."

Notice carefully what Jesus says and what He doesn't say. Jesus clearly says that they will be dressed in white and He will not erase the believer's name, and will acknowledge the same before the Father and his angels. Jesus never says He will erase a believer's name.

The only solid conclusion we can draw from Revelation 3:5 is that those who overcome will not have their names removed from the book of life and Christ will declare those same names before God and His angels. To conclude anything else – especially to conclude the exact opposite -- is go beyond what the text states into the arena of error and confusion

plainbibletruth:

Notice carefully what Jesus says and what He doesn't say. Jesus clearly says that they will be dressed in white and He will not erase the believer's name, and will acknowledge the same before the Father and his angels. Jesus never says He will erase a believer's name.

Let's first establish the fact that He is talking to believers, not unbelievers. Yes, He is definitely talking to those who have heard His teachings and had believed and got saved by it.

Now let's look at what He is saying: 'The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life'.
Anybody who Remains consistent, faithful, abiding, enduring, committed, victorious through persecution upholding his name till end [death], He the Master, shall dress them in white and will not blot out his name from the book of life.


Here is what He is not saying. 'Anyone who falls off after hearing, believing, and accepting the Word of eternal life, but as a result of persecution, peril, hunger, sickness, the fear of death etc, will have his name blotted out of the Book of Life.


This here is the point i'm trying to make. BLOTTING OUT OF NAMES from THE BOOK OF LIFE.

Why will the Master talk about 'not blotting names from the book of life' if we remain faithful till the end?, what this means is that, the ones who are not victorious, gets their names blotted out.

Can't you see there's a condition there? The condition is IF a believer will endure to the end which is death, he shall be dressed in white, but what if he doesn't, will he still dressed in white becos he had previously believed?

OUR NAMES ARE NOT AUTOMATICALLY WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE AWAITING WHEN WE GET SAVED OR NOT. As we get saved and receive his new life in Christ, our names goes into the book.

Now, here is what needs wisdom to unravel: If once our names enters the Book of life, they remain there even when we return to sin, the Master wouldn't mention BLOTTING in the first place.

plainbibletruth:

The only solid conclusion we can draw from Revelation 3:5 is that those who overcome[/] [b]will not have their names removed from the book of life and Christ will declare those same names before God and His angels. To conclude anything else – especially to conclude the exact opposite -- is go beyond what the text states into the arena of error and confusion

But what about those who will not overcome? Are you saying everyone who gets saved will endure to the end and overcome? Why then are we warned not draw back? The Lord doesn't take pleasure in those who draw back. What if we draw back? Will our names remain in the Book?

Do you know that if once we get saved and have our names written into the Book of Life, nothing can erase it, they won't be a word like 'Backsliding' in the Bible?

For the word 'backsliding' to have it's way into scriptures tells us that, some will backslide.

Why will the Master even mention the word 'Erase' if it's automatic that once names enter the Book of Life, that's it? Think about it.

While I believe a person cannot be saved twice, once you are saved, you are saved. But people may fall because they don't understand that God saves you, you work out your salvation through The Holy Spirit in you (Phil 2:12-13). To think the Holy Spirit will work sin in you, bro that's blasphemy. If you sin, you should be convicted, that's why you have the Spirit of God. Sin as a born again child of God should not be tolerated (1 John 3:9 ; 1:9; 2:1). It is the trivializing of sin that has brought about some of these devilish doctrines. It is not a tragedy to sin, it is more of a tragedy not to confess AND FORSAKE that sin. Besides, God has given us grace to live above sin, so anytime one feels like a sin is dominating you, run to the Throne of Grace and apply for more grace (Heb 4: 14-16). Don't let any man decieve you, don't give any place to the devil, attack that sin on time, God is rich in mercy. People who backslide do not do so in one day, gradual toleration of sin eventually leads to a free fall.

joshnes:
While I believe a person cannot be saved twice, once you are saved, you are saved. But people may fall because they don't understand that God saves you, you work out your salvation through The Holy Spirit in you (Phil 2:12-13). To think the Holy Spirit will work sin in you, bro that's blasphemy. If you sin, you should be convicted, that's why you have the Spirit of God. Sin as a born again child of God should not be tolerated (1 John 3:9 ; 1:9; 2:1). It is the trivializing of sin that has brought about some of these devilish doctrines. It is not a tragedy to sin, it is more of a tragedy not to confess AND FORSAKE that sin. Besides, God has given us grace to live above sin, so anytime one feels like a sin is dominating you, run to the Throne of Grace and apply for more grace (Heb 4: 14-16). Don't let any man decieve you, don't give any place to the devil, attack that sin on time, God is rich in mercy. People who backslide do not do so in one day, gradual toleration of sin eventually leads to a free fall.

I totally agree with you..

Just like Cancer is the disease of the flesh, Sin is the disease of the Spirit.
Cancer begins with attacking a cell in the body and if that Cell is not discovered, it spreads and eventually kills the entire body, so also Sin. It begins with a thought, Lust, and then graduates to an act, and as you said, if one doesn't run to the throne of Grace to remove it, it sticks and spreads and if God doesn't intervene, a total fall off can happen.

May the Lord help us to the end. Amen.

Emmanystone:

Let's first establish the fact that He is talking to believers, not unbelievers. Yes, He is definitely talking to those who have heard His teachings and had believed and got saved by it.

Now let's look at what He is saying: 'The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life'.
Anybody who Remains consistent, faithful, abiding, enduring, committed, victorious through persecution upholding his name till end [death], He the Master, shall dress them in white and will not blot out his name from the book of life.


Here is what He is not saying. 'Anyone who falls off after hearing, believing, and accepting the Word of eternal life, but as a result of persecution, peril, hunger, sickness, the fear of death etc, will have his name blotted out of the Book of Life.


This here is the point i'm trying to make. BLOTTING OUT OF NAMES from THE BOOK OF LIFE.

Why will the Master talk about 'not blotting names from the book of life' if we remain faithful till the end?, what this means is that, the ones who are not victorious, gets their names blotted out.

Can't you see there's a condition there? The condition is IF a believer will endure to the end which is death, he shall be dressed in white, but what if he doesn't, will he still dressed in white becos he had previously believed?

OUR NAMES ARE NOT AUTOMATICALLY WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE AWAITING WHEN WE GET SAVED OR NOT. As we get saved and receive his new life in Christ, our names goes into the book.

Now, here is what needs wisdom to unravel: If once our names enters the Book of life, they remain there even when we return to sin, the Master wouldn't mention BLOTTING in the first place.


But what about those who will not overcome? Are you saying everyone who gets saved will endure to the end and overcome? Why then are we warned not draw back? The Lord doesn't take pleasure in those who draw back. What if we draw back? Will our names remain in the Book?

Do you know that if once we get saved and have our names written into the Book of Life, nothing can erase it, they won't be a word like 'Backsliding' in the Bible?

For the word 'backsliding' to have it's way into scriptures tells us that, some will backslide.

Why will the Master even mention the word 'Erase' if it's automatic that once names enter the Book of Life, that's it? Think about it.

These days WORDS and phrases are brandished without users knowing clearly what those words mean exactly.

So, coming to what you wrote, what exactly is meant by each of the following?:
1. "Those who will not overcome"
2. "Those who draw back"
3. "Backsliding"

plainbibletruth:


These days WORDS and phrases are brandished without users knowing clearly what those words mean exactly.

So, coming to what you wrote, what exactly is meant by each of the following?:
1. "Those who will not overcome"
2. "Those who draw back"
3. "Backsliding"

They are self explanatory. They mean what they say.

Brother, when you read Revelation 1, 2, & 3, you'd see clearly that Jesus is addressing believers who may likely drop along the way. Hence; he reiterated the need for them to endure to the end. His focus was 'TILL THE END'. The price of life is at the end not at the beginning. If we get saved and drop along the way, it's over, no price.

To the Ephesian believers He said;
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Revelation:2:5

The warning is for them to return and do the first works or he will come and REMOVE THEIR CANDLE STICK.

Anyone who out of fear of persecution and dead gets separated from the LOVE OF GOD, is the one who will not overcome.
To overcome is to endure to the end.

To the Smyrnaen believers, he told them to endure till they are killed for His name sake, but what if some out of fear, draw back, will the crown of life be given to them? No sir.

Do you remember John chapter 6? Jesus taught his followers about communion. The need for them to eat his flesh and drink his blood, they didn't understand that and turn back and stopped following Him.

Yes, many drops by and stops following.

Judas ischariot was called just like every Apostle. The power to heal, cast out demons raise the dead, was given to him as they were sent out by the master, but greed and poor judgement got the better part of him, he backslid and got his name erased from the Book of Life.

Apostle Paul said, i run with a focus that at the end i might obtain... A race can be ran in vain without obtaining the price. He said i have fought a good fight, i have finished my course, i have kept the faith, now what is left for me is the crown..., until he finished his race, the crown was not his.

Fearing not to have ran the race in vain, in Philipians 2:16 he said;
Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

Finally, those who put their hands in the plough, yet look back, are those who are although are saved, but won't finish the course.

Emmanystone:

They are self explanatory. They mean what they say.

I still stress that there is the need to UNDERSTAND what EXACTLY the Scripture means by the WORDS and PHRASES used rather than read our ASSUMED meaning into them.

Salvation is God's gift Eph. 2:8.

God's gifts are never recalled:
"for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable." Rom.11:29

God remains faithful even when man is unfaithful 2 Tim. 2:13 -"if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself."

Salvation, which comes to any man because of God's mercy and NOT any GOOD WORK on the part of man CANNOT be sustained by man's work, otherwise that would be CONTRADICTORY. Titus 3:4-7.

When God gives a guarantee he stands by it. Eph. 1:14

plainbibletruth:


I still stress that there is the need to UNDERSTAND what EXACTLY the Scripture means by the WORDS and PHRASES used rather than read our ASSUMED meaning into them.

Salvation is God's gift Eph. 2:8.

God's gifts are never recalled:
"for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable." Rom.11:29

God remains faithful even when man is unfaithful 2 Tim. 2:13 -"if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself."

Salvation, which comes to any man because of God's mercy and NOT any GOOD WORK on the part of man CANNOT be sustained by man's work, otherwise that would be CONTRADICTORY. Titus 3:4-7.

When God gives a guarantee he stands by it. Eph. 1:14

Bros, it won't be God taken back what he has given, but there's nothing he can do if someone rejects the gift.
Lucifer became satan remember?

You are saying because God has given the gift of salvation, even if someone who had received that gift rejects it later and becomes an atheists or a muslims or a Satanist his name will remain written in the book of life.

Emmanystone:

Bros, it won't be God taken back what he has given, but there's nothing he can do if someone rejects the gift.
Lucifer became satan remember?

You are saying because God has given the gift of salvation, even if someone who had received that gift rejects it later and becomes an atheists or a muslims or a Satanist his name will remain written in the book of life.

You keep doing one thing: ASSUMING what I have NOT said or what IS NOT in a Bible passage.

I think when that happens it does not make for a right understanding of any particular issue.

Go back all I've written and ask if they line up with Scripture. If so understand them. Then if there are questions the next step would be how can they be resolved.

Like you, I can come up with ALL KINDS of rationalisation. I can argue that the man who goes back was never "in Christ" in the first place. I can ADD other claims but that would be working from my assumed answer to derive my solution. I am not, and wouldn't do that.

The issue always should be 'what is the Scripture saying?' Are there things we can put together line upon line, precept upon precept to arrive at this position ALL THE TIME?

That is why it is better that an issue like we are looking at is not just taken at the surface level but in depth.

For starters let's take this question and look at it:
"If man's HOLINESS or INTEGRITY is required to add to Christ's work on the cross to qualify man for heaven,
1.was Christ's work a PARTIAL work of salvation needing man to FILL UP or COMPLETE?
2. what degree or measure of holiness is required and how do we determine its qualification or the pass Mark as it were?

Clevergeo:
In our attempt to interpret God’s word, we must watch out for the tendencies of logic to be false, for I must state that this doctrine is more of the product of logic than of the Holy Spirit. We must learn to depend on the Spirit to make clear God’s mind in scripture.
The doctrine of ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED stress the following facts:
1. You cannot lose your salvation
2. Your past, present and future sins have been forgiven.
3. Confession of sins is irrelevant since they’ve all been forgiven.
4. Guilt in the conscience has been dealt with forever.
5. Work(faith that works) is totally irrelevant.

OP
I think you have erroneously ascribed 5 points to those who believe in Eternal Security

Eternal Security means that if One is Truely Saved, he is Fully Saved. The reason is because, if any man be in Christ, such is a new Creature and Old things have passed away.

Our salvation was planned even before the Universe was made (or why do you think the Lamb of God was slain from the foundations of the earth?).

Rom 8:29
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

Can Gods foreknowledge be a mistake?
Can Gods predestination be faulted?

By Grace we are saved through Faith NOT of Works so that no one can boast

There are some points to look at:
1. A person can assume that he is saved while as far as God is concerned, He wasn't saved at all. That is, you reciting the "sinners prayer" does not make you saved!
2. I believe a Person can choose to annul his salvation by Rejecting it (the same way he got born again). Then, it would be impossible to bring him back to the faith.
3. There is Judgement of Believers (and not palatable) even though he makes heaven. We are rewarded according to our faithfulness

plainbibletruth:


You keep doing one thing: ASSUMING what I have NOT said or what IS NOT in a Bible passage.

I think when that happens it does not make for a right understanding of any particular issue.

Go back all I've written and ask if they line up with Scripture. If so understand them. Then if there are questions the next step would be how can they be resolved.

Like you, I can come up with ALL KINDS of rationalisation. I can argue that the man who goes back was never "in Christ" in the first place. I can ADD other claims but that would be working from my assumed answer to derive my solution. I am not, and wouldn't do that.

The issue always should be 'what is the Scripture saying?' Are there things we can put together line upon line, precept upon precept to arrive at this position ALL THE TIME?

That is why it is better that an issue like we are looking at is not just taken at the surface level but in depth.

For starters let's take this question and look at it:
"If man's HOLINESS or INTEGRITY is required to add to Christ's work on the cross to qualify man for heaven,
1.was Christ's work a PARTIAL work of salvation needing man to FILL UP or COMPLETE?
2. what degree or measure of holiness is required and how do we determine its qualification or the pass Mark as it were?

You jumped questions i asked with regards to who Christ was addressing in revelation 1,2,3.

Everything must not be written in black and white before it conveys the message. When Christ says if we are niether hot nor cold, He will spit us out of His mouth, was he talking to the unsaved?

Were the 5foolish virgins unsaved?


Brother, Once saved is not always saved. As much as when God gives you a gift He doesn't take it back, but when one returns to Sin, the gift gets corruoted.

The Gift of God's life Christ is giving to Man today, is the same Gods life 'Zoe', that God gave to Adam, did Adam loose it? Yes.

Lucifer went with his, Adam went with his, but the vital component of them, the Spirit which enables them to abide with Him got lost or corrupted.

I gave scriotures which you ignored nah.

If there's nothing like 'backsliding' after being saved, the Holy Spirit wouldn't mention it in the Bible.


On a final note; pls, stop making it seem like i'm implying that When God gives us salvation and we return to Sin, he'll take His salvation back, No. The salvation gets corrupted, that's all.

plainbibletruth:


I still stress that there is the need to UNDERSTAND what EXACTLY the Scripture means by the WORDS and PHRASES used rather than read our ASSUMED meaning into them.

Salvation is God's gift Eph. 2:8.

God's gifts are never recalled:
"for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable." Rom.11:29

God remains faithful even when man is unfaithful 2 Tim. 2:13 -"if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself."

Salvation, which comes to any man because of God's mercy and NOT any GOOD WORK on the part of man CANNOT be sustained by man's work, otherwise that would be CONTRADICTORY. Titus 3:4-7.

When God gives a guarantee he stands by it. Eph. 1:14

I see where you are getting it wrong. I never said Salvation is by works or as a result of what we do, No. It is a gift of God.
I don't know where you are getting GOOD WORKS from, i have never mentioned WORKS once. It is a gift.

The GIVER is YHWH, when He gives, He doesn't take back.

the Reciever is Man, he can recieve and loos it afterwards. Case it point, Adam.

Choices and Willingness comes in here.

Tell me pls, will everyone who has ever recieved salvation enter eternal life with Christ?

I believe, salvation is not an automatic endosement for heaven, if so, the 5 foolish VIRGINS, would have recieved recommendarion from the master for remaining virgins and waiting, albeit without Oil.

plainbibletruth:


You keep doing one thing: ASSUMING what I have NOT said or what IS NOT in a Bible passage.

I think when that happens it does not make for a right understanding of any particular issue.

Go back all I've written and ask if they line up with Scripture. If so understand them. Then if there are questions the next step would be how can they be resolved.

Like you, I can come up with ALL KINDS of rationalisation. I can argue that the man who goes back was never "in Christ" in the first place. I can ADD other claims but that would be working from my assumed answer to derive my solution. I am not, and wouldn't do that.

The issue always should be 'what is the Scripture saying?' Are there things we can put together line upon line, precept upon precept to arrive at this position ALL THE TIME?

That is why it is better that an issue like we are looking at is not just taken at the surface level but in depth.

For starters let's take this question and look at it:
"If man's HOLINESS or INTEGRITY is required to add to Christ's work on the cross to qualify man for heaven,
1.was Christ's work a PARTIAL work of salvation needing man to FILL UP or COMPLETE?
2. what degree or measure of holiness is required and how do we determine its qualification or the pass Mark as it were?

Brother, backsliding is not God's inadequacies, it is Man's. The problem is not God-ward, but Man-ward.


When God Gives, He gives all and doesn't take back, it then remains for man to take what is given and work/walk with it to the end. That's why it is called a RACE. If one falls off the track, you fall out of God. That is all there is to this. Hence, we as Christians are enjoined to guard jealously that which we have that no one takes it away.

Let us even consider what Jesus taught in Luke 8 from 5-15.

The Sower=God/Christ. Sows His SEED= The Word of Christ to The Ground/soil= The Hearer/Man.

One Seed fell on the wayside.

Another fell on the Rocky areas.

One fell on the Thorny area.

One fell on Good grounds.

And, all the Seeds germinated and began to grow.

As time progressed, the Rocky ground Christian, began to crumble about the Rockiness around and gave a reason why the Seed can't grow in her, she gave up. But did she recieved the Seed/salvation? Yes.

The Wayside Christian, just dropped the salvation as soon as she recieved it. This is an excited Christian. She heard the word, got so exited and recieved it, but her normal worldly ways got mixed up and she lost out.

The Thorny Ground Christians: This one is the one who gives in to or crumbles under Adversities of life, afflictions, hardships, persecution, perils, hunger, famine, fear of death, etc. She gets seperated from the love of God, (this is where most people fall off) because he can not endure, hence, she returns back to her normal life.

The Good ground Christian: This out of 3 stands, endures till the end, overcomes all and obtains the crown of Life.


Sir, Once saved is not always saved. Let he who have an ear guard their salvation jealously.

The

plainbibletruth what do you then have to say of Hebrews 6:4-6?

Emmanystone:

Brother, backsliding is not God's inadequacies, it is Man's.

Sir, Once saved is not always saved. Let he who have an ear guard their salvation jealously.

The

I asked some questions but you appear to run away from them.

If this kind of topic is not followed systematically there is the tendency to get muddled up in irrelevances.

Christ came to resolve man's INADEQUACY. If we now turn round to say that the INADEQUATE man can or must do something in order to sustain Christ's work then what we are saying is that SALVATION ultimately depends on man's efforts.

If I'm getting you wrong clarify things for me by answering this question:
"How can the receiver (man) lose the GIFT of salvation?

plainbibletruth, kindly correct this notion: when God gives HE doesnt take back:

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Revelations 2:5


Besides, kindly lay these to heart:

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned
John 15:2,6

Aye brother, none can pluck us from His Hands;but HE can cut us off if we dont abide.

Romans 11:21,22
for if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

joshnes:
plainbibletruth what do you then have to say of Hebrews 6:4-6?

Joshnes, Most times it is necessary to look at an entire chapter or even chapters of the Bible in order to get a clearer picture of a doctrinal position. However since we may not have the luxury of time and space here let me give a short answer.


"If they shall fall away" is not referring to salvation but it is referring to the moving away from the Christian way of life into Judaism. Hebrews 6:1 tells us that the writer is speaking about things that follow salvation.

This portion is simply stating to Hebrew (Jewish) believers that if they "fall away" into Judaistic reliance on animal sacrifices they cannot be brought back into fellowship with God (which comes alone through repentance - 1 John 1:9) and were by relying on those animal sacrifices attempting to crucify afresh Jesus Christ.

I trust that helps.

The basis of Gods accepting a person and forgiving a sinner is clearly, upon what Jesus Christ did on the cross.

No merit on the part of man brought it about. After salvation the believer continues to be inadequate. (1 John 1:8. )
To claim then that man needs to continue to "merit" the GIFT of God means that it was not a gift in the first place.

When a person by faith believes and receives Christ as their Saviour that person has eternal life and salvation being eternal it cannot be lost.

NO ONE merits salvation. How then can any merit on man's part sustain it?

plainbibletruth:


These days WORDS and phrases are brandished without users knowing clearly what those words mean exactly.

So, coming to what you wrote, what exactly is meant by each of the following?:
1. "Those who will not overcome"
2. "Those who draw back"
3. "Backsliding"

I would have decided to deal with this topic exclusively, just that I am fed up with NL.

I support your views so far.

Scholar8200:
plainbibletruth, kindly correct this notion: when God gives HE doesnt take back:

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Revelations 2:5


Besides, kindly lay these to heart:

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned
John 15:2,6

Aye brother, none can pluck us from His Hands;but HE can cut us off if we dont abide.

Romans 11:21,22
for if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Well, I remember those days we argued extensively on this topic.

You always bring up this, and I always deal with them. But you would never agree, rather you would take the escape route. That's not false. Probably not under this moniker.

plainbibletruth:


I asked some questions but you appear to run away from them.

If this kind of topic is not followed systematically there is the tendency to get muddled up in irrelevances.

Christ came to resolve man's INADEQUACY. If we now turn round to say that the INADEQUATE man can or must do something in order to sustain Christ's work then what we are saying is that SALVATION ultimately depends on man's efforts.

If I'm getting you wrong clarify things for me by answering this question:
"How can the receiver (man) lose the GIFT of salvation?

Nice one

plainbibletruth:


You keep doing one thing: ASSUMING what I have NOT said or what IS NOT in a Bible passage.

I think when that happens it does not make for a right understanding of any particular issue.

Go back all I've written and ask if they line up with Scripture. If so understand them. Then if there are questions the next step would be how can they be resolved.

Like you, I can come up with ALL KINDS of rationalisation. I can argue that the man who goes back was never "in Christ" in the first place. I can ADD other claims but that would be working from my assumed answer to derive my solution. I am not, and wouldn't do that.

The issue always should be 'what is the Scripture saying?' Are there things we can put together line upon line, precept upon precept to arrive at this position ALL THE TIME?

That is why it is better that an issue like we are looking at is not just taken at the surface level but in depth.

For starters let's take this question and look at it:
"If man's HOLINESS or INTEGRITY is required to add to Christ's work on the cross to qualify man for heaven,
1.was Christ's work a PARTIAL work of salvation needing man to FILL UP or COMPLETE?
2. what degree or measure of holiness is required and how do we determine its qualification or the pass Mark as it were?

Brother you are the one assuming... pele ooo

ambassagod:


Well, I remember those days we argued extensively on this topic.

You always bring up this, and I always deal with them. But you would never agree, rather you would take the escape route. That's not false. Probably not under this moniker.

okay

[/quote author=plainbibletruth post=62191490]
If this kind of topic is not followed systematically there is the tendency to get muddled up in irrelevances.

Christ came to resolve man's INADEQUACY. If we now turn round to say that the INADEQUATE man can or must do something in order to sustain Christ's work then what we are saying is that SALVATION ultimately depends on man's efforts.
[/quote]
Why aren't we analyzing the scriptures we bring up here?

You keep veering off the lane. Salvation is not by works, as in, 'Good Deeds', Inever said anything like that. However, there is the issue of CHOICE on the part of Man who needs to make up for his inadequacies, hence: man must either accept or reject the gift of salvation OFFERED by Christ, ( it's an open offer with room to accept or reject it).

When the gift has been accepted, there's need for man to continue.(Why are we losing sight of the issue of continuity here?).

When we have received Salvation which is freely offered, but takes a choice to accept or reject, there's still a life or race to run, which some may end half way.


Brother, salvation is not thrust to man to accept whether or not he wants it, if that's the case, we won't have atheist here. But, we have a part to play, that's to either accept or reject it. when we accept it then Romans 12:2 comes to play.

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Romans:12:2

The bolded is your job to do, not God's. He will renew your Spirit, by giving it His life, you work to put off the works of the flesh. He won't do that for you.

Before you got saved, anytime you got sexually aroused, you had sex, but now, when you get sexually aroused you control your urge. He will not stop you from having sex, because he has given you the power to stop yourself, but what if you take it for granted and keep having your sex?


I don't want to keep going back and forth with this.

[/quote author=plainbibletruth post=62191490]
If I'm getting you wrong clarify things for me by answering this question[/b]:
"How can the receiver (man) lose the GIFT of salvation? [/quote]

You can decide to drop the gift you received. It's not automatic that becos Christ has given you this gift, you must keep the gift till you die.

Lucifer lost his, Adam lost his.

Note again, IT'S NOT CHRIST WHO IS TAKING THE GIFT BACK, BUT IF YOU DROP IT HALF WAY, HE WON'T FORCE YOU TO KEEP IT.

Will a man who had received salvation but drops Christ to take up Islam still keep his salvation? What about a satanist who was once a Christian, will he keep his salvation?

Is salvation automatic?

Scholar8200:
plainbibletruth, kindly correct this notion: when God gives HE doesnt take back:

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Revelations 2:5


Besides, kindly lay these to heart:

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned
John 15:2,6

Aye brother, none can pluck us from His Hands;but HE can cut us off if we dont abide.

Romans 11:21,22
for if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

He refuses to see these scriptures.

plainbibletruth:


Joshnes, Most times it is necessary to look at an entire chapter or even chapters of the Bible in order to get a clearer picture of a doctrinal position. However since we may not have the luxury of time and space here let me give a short answer.


"If they shall fall away" is not referring to salvation but it is referring to the moving away from the Christian way of life into Judaism. Hebrews 6:1 tells us that the writer is speaking about things that follow salvation.

This portion is simply stating to Hebrew (Jewish) believers that if they "fall away" into Judaistic reliance on animal sacrifices they cannot be brought back into fellowship with God (which comes alone through repentance - 1 John 1:9) and were by relying on those animal sacrifices attempting to crucify afresh Jesus Christ.

I trust that helps.

The basis of Gods accepting a person and forgiving a sinner is clearly, upon what Jesus Christ did on the cross.

No merit on the part of man brought it about. After salvation the believer continues to be inadequate. (1 John 1:8. )
To claim then that man needs to continue to "merit" the GIFT of God means that it was not a gift in the first place.

When a person by faith believes and receives Christ as their Saviour that person has eternal life and salvation being eternal it cannot be lost.

NO ONE merits salvation. How then can any merit on man's part sustain it?

Falling away is leaving of dropping the gift of salvation which they received previously.