petra1:


why didn't you apply this berean principle to daddy freeze lie.



mama ijo was right.My mom was mama imo too. always sleeping in church and volunteered to always wash church toilet pit latrine while i as a teenager supplies her buckets of water from the well. Foundation from such God serving women should not be thrown away by new age doctrine .



what if you realise you believed wrongly about tithe. as long as you believe in ofering and alms ,you should give tithe also . They are principles in the kingdom of God . church age is only an interuption . church age is not for ever. the kingdom of God is bigger than the church.

brother, I don't have issues with giving alms, nor with Freewill offerings as long as it's done willing just as the new testament admonishes it should be done. The issue is this ecclesiastical tax. a.k.a tithe that has no basis in the new testament. Nobody has been able to come up with a coherent response as to how Tithes has been mandated in the New testament or more specifically this dispensation of grace.

To the point, Freeze is absolutely right(regardless of the ad hominem fallacy his detractors are employing). There are no new testament scriptures admonishing any believer to tithe. The Foundational Apostles, nor is there any example in the early church where there is the admonishment to tithe.

I have been expecting you to come up with real biblical exegesis on how believers that are born again in Christ are supposed to tithe but so far nothing concrete from you, could it be because well, no such new testament scriptures exist?

petra1:


he lied



wrong. what of all the rebuttal and responses of tithers on nairaland on social media. Most antitithers are not even rwadin. they are more concerned about the anti church political campaign . many pastors responded on youtube and Facebook but nairaland will ignore such. The nairaland picture of the body of christ is satanic.

Bros, it's not about pastors responding on social media, it's about what the new testament says on tithing as it regards a believer in christ. This is a very simple matter. If tithing was the way these pastorpreneurs preach, there would have been clear direction in the new testament. Okay let's use fornication as an example. We all know fornication is wrong, but no need to take our word for it, in searching the scriptures it is expressly stated..

1.Cor 6.18 KJV
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body

where does the bible say to tithe in the new testament?

petra1:

He still made changes in the area needed . "It is said . . . But I say unto you. . . .

You guys like to say Jesus has brought a new law which is love. Was it not under the same circumstances when the law was in forced ? Yet Jesus said we should tithe .

Christ fulfilled them . He's our sin offering , he's the sabbath ( rest) he's not tithe . But rather he's the high priest who now receives our tithe not Levi

Pastors are tithers not tithe collectors . Tithe is given to God just as offering is given to . And it is hypocritical to condemn tithe and leave offering . It only shows that' there is something special about the tithe that makes the devil mad .

Tithe must not be money . You tithe from his blessing , it's left to you what form you give it

I was right! Petra1 never gives up even in the face of clear evidence.

In 2 Corinthians 3: 6 Paul writes: "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant - not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."
The Apostles were INSPIRED, as ministers of the new covenant, to communicate church-age doctrines.

In Galatians 2: 18 he says: "If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a law-breaker."
This he said in referring to the Law.

In Galatians 3: 10 - "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."
He shows us here that THE ONES THAT ARE REALLY UNDER A CURSE are those who seek to go back to the Law for acceptance before God BECAUSE they need to fulfil ALL and not just part of the Law.

Perhaps that is why you gyrate between the Law and pre-law (picking on the Law when it suits you and using 'tithing by faith' when you think that will work best) all in a bid to justify what Jesus himself said was not a significant issue of the Law.

Petra1, confusion comes when you attempt to lump so many things together. Look at TITHING alone for now and see if it was MENTIONED by the Apostles as necessary for the Christian. If you don't see it as necessary accept that position. Then you can move on to other matters. If you want to accept a position of Scripture ONLY when you've satisfied yourself about all others then you may never accomplish anything meaningful.

So, Petra1, is there a clear picture in the NT as to how Christians gave? If so, was tithing involved?

petra1:

why didn't you apply this berean principle to daddy freeze lie.
.......
what if you realise you believed wrongly about tithe. as long as you believe in ofering and alms ,you should give tithe also . They are principles in the kingdom of God . church age is only an interuption . church age is not for ever. the kingdom of God is bigger than the church.

Why should the Christian give tithe also?
What are "principles" in the kingdom of God?
The church age is only an interuption of what?
Why is the church age not for ever?
How is the kingdom of God is bigger than the church?

As long as you KEEP RUNNING AWAY from clearly answering questions but you feel people should just ACCEPT what you say, then you're no better than those you keep on accusing.

Christianity is founded on KNOWLEDGE not on feelings or some esoteric ideas that can't be clearly explained to others.

It is that knowledge and understanding that should inform the Christian's stand on any issue.

plainbibletruth:

Why should the Christian give tithe also?

Because tithes and offerings have been part of God system. And there is never an ending to it. It's a principle . Why do you take some and leave some .

What are "principles" in the kingdom of God?

I should count them ?

The church age is only an interuption of what?

Federal law supercede state laws . The lesser is included in the greater.

Why is the church age not for ever?
How is the kingdom of God is bigger than the church?[/quote]

The kingdom of God has been . And there are spiritual principles in the kingdom. God unveil to man from time to time and grant him ability to know these spiritual laws.

At one time men didn't know about praying or worship or personal relationship with God . But in the days of Enos God granted man the understanding. And it became part of Godd principles for us .

Genesis 4:26 (KJV)
And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.


The principle is still on today . Also in the days of Abraham God introduced tithing . Abraham was a prophet who had insight into principles . God gave testimony of him that He trusted Abraham to pass his knowledge to next generation.

Genesis 18:19 (NLT)
I have singled him out so that he will direct his sons and their families to keep the way of the Lord by doing what is right and just. Then I will do for Abraham all that I have promised.”

Genesis 18:19 (Message)
Yes, I've settled on him as the one to train his children and future family to observe God's way of life, live kindly and generously and fairly, so that God can complete in Abraham what he promised him."

Tithing has become part of the system .That's how Jacob got to know through Isaac his father . It's not an isolated case. So it's funny if no tithers claim Abraham tithe was "merely legal tax . And Jacob was merely personal vow . Offering, tithes , vows ,prayers ,alms , fasting , have become part of God worship before the law came . The fact that the law mentioned them it's only and endorsement of an existing principle .

Church age is temporal it existed in the bigger which is Gods kingdom . Christ is the head of the church . God is the head of the kingdom

1 Corinthians 15:24 (KJV)
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

petra1:

Because tithes and offerings have been part of God system. And there is never an ending to it. It's a principle.
........

I will shortly answer you BUT I'm seriously considering putting up a thread titled either:
Petra1 MONIKER HAS BEEN COMPROMISED! or
IS Petra1 MONIKER USED BY A NUMBER OF PERSONS?

You will know why later.

petra1:

Petra1, to say i'm disappointed at your responses would be an understatement.

One would have thought that this tithing issue is serious to you for you to be able to give clear scriptures to support your answers to questions but that HARDLY happens.

Also, FACTS that a kindergarten Christian should know seem unclear to you.

Is it that you've been so shaken by this tithe thing that it's beginning to unsettle you?

Now, please react to these from your response:

petra1:

Federal law supercede state laws . The lesser is included in the greater.

In the case before us now, which is the Federal law and which is the State law?

petra1:

At one time men didn't know about praying or worship or personal relationship with God . But in the days of Enos God granted man the understanding. And it became part of Godd principles for us .

Are you saying, from the above, that Cain and Abel were not worshipping God and had no knowledge or relationship with God? They were before Enosh.

petra1:

Because tithes and offerings have been part of God system. And there is never an ending to it. It's a principle . Why do you take some and leave some .
The kingdom of God has been . And there are spiritual principles in the kingdom. God unveil to man from time to time and grant him ability to know these spiritual laws.
The principle is still on today . Also in the days of Abraham God introduced tithing . Abraham was a prophet who had insight into principles . God gave testimony of him that He trusted Abraham to pass his knowledge to next generation.
The fact that the law mentioned them it's only and endorsement of an existing principle .
Church age is temporal it existed in the bigger which is Gods kingdom . Christ is the head of the church . God is the head of the kingdom

If like you've been holding on to, tithing is an "eternal principle", why would it now be that it was "in the days of Abraham God introduced tithing"?
Is it that God did not want previous generation to be part of the "eternal principle"?

Is the Church Age superior to any other age under God's kingdom?

Is it expected that God's revelation in the Church Age will be more than was in the past dispensations?

I ask again a QUESTION you have been avoiding:
Petra1, is there a clear picture in the NT as to how Christians gave? If so, was tithing involved?

plainbibletruth:
I will shortly answer you BUT I'm seriously considering putting up a thread titled either:
Petra1 MONIKER HAS BEEN COMPROMISED! or
IS Petra1 MONIKER USED BY A NUMBER OF PERSONS?

You will know why later.

The latter is more the case. Remember we've had a similar incident on this road with the other user ID before.

It is overzealous family/church members who sometimes jump on his laptop/mobile devices/PC and without logging out his Petra1 account, start firing off responses to any post directed at the Petra1 ID.

plainbibletruth:


I ask again a QUESTION you have been avoiding:
Petra1, is there a clear picture in the NT as to how Christians gave? If so, was tithing involved?

Is there a separate bible for the church?

plainbibletruth:


I will shortly answer you BUT I'm seriously considering putting up a thread titled either:
Petra1 MONIKER HAS BEEN COMPROMISED! or
IS Petra1 MONIKER USED BY A NUMBER OF PERSONS?

You will know why later.

there is nobody hijacking any monicker. lets leave banters and sentiments . kindly read my post with neutral mind for once.

petra1:
At one time men didn't know about praying or worship or personal relationship with God . But in the days of Enos God granted man the understanding. And it became part of Godd principles for us .

Genesis 4:26 (KJV)
And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.

plainbibletruth:
Petra1, to say i'm disappointed at your responses would be an understatement

Are you saying, from the above, that Cain and Abel were not worshipping God and had no knowledge or relationship with God?
They were before Enosh

Don't mind Petra1 and his pass down interpretations, he gobbled up without verifying it first

Genesis 4:26 , is another of those verses favoured for dirty interpretations.

What I would like to see is Petra1's exegesis on how he concluded and attributed Genesis 4:26 to say:
"At one time men didn't know about praying or worship or personal relationship with God . But in the days of Enos God granted man the understanding. And it became part of Godd principles for us" sic.

plainbibletruth:

Petra1, to say i'm disappointed at your responses would be an understatement.

One would have thought that this tithing issue is serious to you for you to be able to give clear scriptures to support your answers to questions but that HARDLY happens.

Also, FACTS that a kindergarten Christian should know seem unclear to you.

Is it that you've been so shaken by this tithe thing that it's beginning to unsettle you?

stop getting personal. i dealt with several topics on nairaland. why should my tithe post unsettle you. i stand for my conviction . either on eschatology , justification ,healing,miracles etc etc . why getting personal on money matter. it only gives me impression. I'm making valid point. and some are just looking for ways to shut my mouth. because when you enter insults and banters ,i pull out .

Now, please react to these from your response:

In the case before us now, which is the Federal law and which is the State law?

its only an illustration

Are you saying, from the above, that Cain and Abel were not worshipping God and had no knowledge or relationship with God? They were before Enosh.

I'm sure you read the portion i quoted. or you still want to do'SHOW ME FROM BIBLE'

If like you've been holding on to, tithing is an "eternal principle", why would it now be that it was "in the days of Abraham God introduced tithing"?
Is it that God did not want previous generation to be part of the "eternal principle"?

thats a digression

Is the Church Age superior to any other age under God's kingdom?

Is it expected that God's revelation in the Church Age will be more than was in the past dispensations?

kindly enlighten us

dyydxx:

where does the bible say to tithe in the new testament?

Where does the Bible say not to commit bestiality in the New Testament .
Where does the Bible say . Not to marry your sibling in the New Testament ?

MuttleyLaff:

Don't mind Petra1 and his pass down interpretations, he gobbled up without verifying it first

I did my researches . Even in other manuscripts like the book of Enoch and the book of jasher . More details are there .

Genesis 4:26 , is another of those verses favoured for dirty interpretations.

What I would like to see is Petra1's exegesis on how he concluded and attributed Genesis 4:26 to say:
"At one time men didn't know about praying or worship or personal relationship with God . But in the days of Enos God granted man the understanding. And it became part of Godd principles for us" sic.

Genesis 4:26 (NLT)
When Seth grew up, he had a son and named him Enosh. At that time people first began to worship the Lord by name.

Genesis 4:26 (Message)
And then Seth had a son whom he named Enosh.
That's when men and women began praying and worshiping in the name of God.

petra1:


Where does the Bible say not to commit bestiality in the New Testament .
Where does the Bible say . Not to marry your sibling in the New Testament ?

what do you understand by the word fornication? do you even know the meaning of the word translated fornication? what is sexual immorality?

On Beastility

Rom 1:28-31
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:



14. Galatians 5:19-24

Now the deeds of the flesh are obvious, which are: adultery, sexual immorality, uncleanness, lustfulness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousies, outbursts of anger, rivalries, divisions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these; of which I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.

Jude 1:7

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

1 Cor 6:9-10

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God

On Incest

In the New Testament, however, such behavior was forbidden. John the Baptist condemned the marriage of Herod Antipas to his brother Philip's wife (Mark 6:17)

dyydxx:


what do you understand by the word fornication? do you even know the meaning of the word translated fornication? what is sexual immorality?

Thats generalisation. you could as well say "SIN' .

On Beastility

Rom 1:28-31
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:



14. Galatians 5:19-24

Now the deeds of the flesh are obvious, which are: adultery, sexual immorality, uncleanness, lustfulness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousies, outbursts of anger, rivalries, divisions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these; of which I forewarn you, even as I also forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit God’s Kingdom. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.

Jude 1:7

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

1 Cor 6:9-10

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God

On Incest

In the New Testament, however, such behavior was forbidden. John the Baptist condemned the marriage of Herod Antipas to his brother Philip's wife (Mark 6:17)

all these are just generalisation. if you can do generalisation here. why do you insists on specifics on tithe. thats double standard . theres nothing you dressed here that has to do with either incest or bestiality. strange flesh was homosexuality.

i coould see that you all saw my point and trying to just find an answer sha anyhow. the truth is there is no answer. can a brother marry his sister? can a man marry his dog. now i want you also to know that these things are already being practiced . people are marrying their dogs and blood relatives. my deep concerns which should be yours also is that . in this generation of perversion .if a christian or our own child wants to marry his sister, or his dog. on what ground will you contend it as a sin? lets lay aside this political party figth. if you destroy the law . you throw morality out of the window in christ.

petra1:
I did my researches

Petra1, if you had done a real, proper and careful research, your conclusion wont completely be gone 180 degrees in the wrong direction

petra1:
Even in other manuscripts like the book of Enoch and the book of jasher. More details are there .

Genesis 4:26 (NLT)
When Seth grew up, he had a son and named him Enosh. At that time people first began to worship the Lord by name.

Genesis 4:26 (Message)
And then Seth had a son whom he named Enosh.
That's when men and women began praying and worshiping in the name of God.

Can I have the exact details in the book of Enoch and the book of Jasher please?

petra1:


I did my researches . Even in other manuscripts like the book of Enoch and the book of jasher . More details are there

There is a reason the gnostic gospels were expunged from what we know as the scriptures today. Those books contain very controversial and heretical beliefs that can't be verified by the holy spirit or even historians.

dyydxx:


There is a reason the gnostic gospels were expunged from what we know as the scriptures today. Those books contain very controversial and heretical beliefs that can't be verified by the holy spirit or even historians.

Are you aware that there were references to them from the Bible even the epistles .

petra1:


Thats generalisation. you could as well say "SIN' .



all these are just generalisation. if you can do generalisation here. why do you insists on specifics on tithe. thats double standard . theres nothing you dressed here that has to do with either incest or bestiality. strange flesh was homosexuality.

i coould see that you all saw my point and trying to just find an answer sha anyhow. the truth is there is no answer. can a brother marry his sister? can a man marry his dog. now i want you also to know that these things are already being practiced . people are marrying their dogs and blood relatives. my deep concerns which should be yours also is that . in this generation of perversion .if a christian or our own child wants to marry his sister, or his dog. on what ground will you contend it as a sin? lets lay aside this political party figth. if you destroy the law . you throw morality out of the window in christ.

I beg to differ. There is no generalization here. Bestiality is sexual relations with animals. it is clearly covered in the meaning of the word translated Fornication. The word is Porneia and clearly includes bestiality. No ambiguity at all.

[b]The translation of porneia, et al. as fornication in the KJV and sexual immorality in the NIV, is confusing. On the one hand, porneia seems to mean "harlotry" while in the New Testament it is rendered "sexual immorality." The second case i find to be very vague. It seems to be an example of "painting the target around the arrow": where "sexual immorality" as an accepted doctrine includes pre-marital sex based upon that doctrine (as in the case of the doctrine of baptism by sprinkling being the accepted doctrine although it's original meaning is immersion), it is clearly circular reasoning. It is also interesting to note that in the KJV, the definition for fornication is, "harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively, idolatry:--fornication" (Strong's), while in the updated version of Strong's, it means, "illicit sexual intercourse adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.; sexual intercourse with close relatives; sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; metaph. the worship of idols of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols".[/b]

petra1:


Are you aware that there were references to them from the Bible even the epistles .

just read this to get a proper understanding of why the book is heretical

https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/bible-questions-and-answers/is-the-book-of-enoch-sacred-writing

dyydxx:


I beg to differ. There is no generalization here. Bestiality is sexual relations with animals. it is clearly covered in the meaning of the word translated Fornication. The word is Porneia and clearly includes bestiality. No ambiguity at all

Wrong! Fornication actually is idolatry . A kind of satanism where there's sexual ritual . I said earlier if you want to generalize you could have as well say "SIN " covers bestiality and every sexual malpractice . If you're justified to generalize do the same with tithe

Besides tithes is even more direct


1 Corinthians 9:13-14
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

dyydxx:


just read this to get a proper understanding of why the book is heretical

The book of Enoch was part of scriptures until 500 years ago .Are you aware the apostles quoted from them

petra1:


Wrong! Fornication actually is idolatry . A kind of satanism where there's sexual ritual . I said earlier if you want to generalize you could have as well say "SIN " covers bestiality and every sexual malpractice . If you're justified to generalize do the same with tithe

Besides tithes is even more direct


1 Corinthians 9:13-14
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

We will get to your indirect citation to justify tithes in a bit.

Please can you provide your sourcing for saying fornication is idolatary and not prostitution. Please respond with sourcing because I clearly disagree with what you have said.

In the original Greek version of the New Testament, the Greek term porneia (πορνεία) (or its variants) is used 25 times.[3] Porneia meant prostitution, a usage still in use today.[4]

In the late 4th century, the Latin Vulgate, a Latin translation of the Greek texts, translated the term as fornicati, fornicatus, fornicata, and fornicatae. In 1611 King James Version, the first English translation of the Christian Bible[5] used the term fornication. Other translations have used terms such as whoredom, sexual immorality (eg., Matthew 19:9) or simply immorality.[6][7]


Strong's Concordance gives us the original definition of porneia.

1) illicit sexual intercourse

a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.

b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18

c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,12

This root word includes all forms of sexual acts that are not within the confines of marriage (a heterosexual one at that). The study of the word itself shows that anything and everything outside the realm of marriage is a sin.

petra1:


Are you aware the apostles quoted from them

still doesn't mean it's scripture.
https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/bible-questions-and-answers/is-the-book-of-enoch-sacred-writing

petra1:


Besides tithes is even more direct


1 Corinthians 9:13-14
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

How does this one even remotely mean that 10% of my monthly income has to be going to the church?
Like I have said, I don't have any issues with ministers of the gospel living off the fruits of their preaching of the gospel. it is clearly sanctioned by this scripture. what I find abhorrent is this tithe matter. I can choose to give any amount I want to the pastor or to the church for the work of the gospel. I can give 0.1% to either 100% of all my money in faith to God's work. The point is it has to be free willing and come from my heart. Finish. whatever I want I can give for the work of the Lord. Tithing is not for me in Christ. There is no principle I have to follow there. This is just the plain truth.

petra1:
......
I'm sure you read the portion i quoted. or you still want to do'SHOW ME FROM BIBLE'
......
thats a digression

kindly enlighten us

Petra1, like I've stated earlier Christianity is founded on knowledge. Not on feelings or some esoteric ideas that can't be clearly explained to others.

Are you aware of this statement: "And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself." in Luke 24?

Jesus "EXPLAINED" to the two disciples. He did not just throw short phrases or sentences at them.

When you pick verses out of context, assume the meaning of others outside what they clearly say and create terms and phrases you can't clearly communicate to others then something is not quite in order.

God's PROGRESSIVE REVELATION found its fulfilment in Jesus Christ. With that God created a new spiritual entity - the Church. With the Church came "mystery doctrines" unknown to previous dispensations. These doctrines were communicated largely through the Apostles.

Therefore, anything ESSENTIAL for the spiritual life under the New Covenant was given to us in the EPISTLES.

Incidentally the issues of the whether Christians are to run their spiritual lives under the law or pre-law was CLEARLY DEALT WITH in the NT. The answer was a clear 'NO!'.

So, when you and other tithers INSIST today that this pre-New covenant practice, which the Apostles NEVER DEMANDED of Christians, is a part of the spiritual life of the New Covenant believer you've not just gone overboard, you're belittling the work of Jesus Christ.

When you think that THE BASIS OF YOUR BLESSINGS FROM GOD is not what Jesus Christ did but on what you can do, like through tithes, then I dare say that you still need more understanding of what Christianity is all about.

What can any Christian do to repay what Jesus Christ did for man not to talk of now exacting a blessing from God on the basis of tithing?

petra1:
I did my researches

Petra1, if you had done a real, proper and careful research, your conclusion wont completely be gone 180 degrees in the wrong direction

petra1:
Even in other manuscripts like the book of Enoch and the book of jasher. More details are there .
Genesis 4:26 (NLT)
When Seth grew up, he had a son and named him Enosh. At that time people first began to worship the Lord by name.
Genesis 4:26 (Message)
And then Seth had a son whom he named Enosh.
That's when men and women began praying and worshiping in the name of God.

Can I have the exact details in the book of Enoch and the book of Jasher please?
Chapter(s)? Verse(s)?

dyydxx:
There is a reason the gnostic gospels were expunged from what we know as the scriptures today.
Those books contain very controversial and heretical beliefs that can't be verified by the holy spirit or even historians.

Petra1 prefers to not be concerned about any of that

petra1:
Are you aware that there were references to them from the Bible even the epistles

What you ought to have asked yourself, is, in what context though, are the references to them from the Bible, even the epistles, made?
You ought to have wondered, what was the objective, setting and game plan?
You ought to have asked yourself, whether the references to them, are part of a strategy for achieving an objective?

dyydxx:
just read this to get a proper understanding of why the book is heretical
https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/bible-questions-and-answers/is-the-book-of-enoch-sacred-writing

You be like talking to a brick wall
He doesnt need that link. He knows!

petra1:
Are you aware the apostles quoted from them

"By necessity, by proclivity, and by delight, we all quote.”
― Ralph Waldo Emerson

When a person, say for an example, quotes from the Quran,
it doesnt mean because the person quoted from it, then the person has given the Quran a stamp of approval

dyydxx:
still doesn't mean it's scripture

All I am asking Petra1, is to give me the exact details in the book of Enoch and the book of Jasher please
then explain how he connected them to Genesis 4:26 for him to conclude and say:
"At one time men didn't know about praying or worship or personal relationship with God.
But in the days of Enos God granted man the understanding.
And it became part of Godd principles for us" sic.

petra1:


Wrong! Fornication actually is idolatry . A kind of satanism where there's sexual ritual . I said earlier if you want to generalize you could have as well say "SIN " covers bestiality and every sexual malpractice . If you're justified to generalize do the same with tithe

Besides tithes is even more direct


1 Corinthians 9:13-14
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

If circumcision is the seal required of people to commit to the old covenant terms (which includes animal sacrifice and tithing) , and Paul clearly preached that circumcision is not a requirement for you to be a member under the terms of the new covenant...please how is tithing then obligatory for Christians to follow?

Moreso, even when gold and silver were the legal tender in ancient times, where did God instruct His children through the Law to pay tithes monetarily?


petra1 , don't get it twisted...the Law in itself has eternal principles...even the new covenant has eternal principles, that's why you must make a choice on which side you belong to. You cannot eat out of the Tree of Life (New Covenant) and the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil (Law - Old Covenant) at the same time.

The Law is no longer obligatory on Christians... choose where you belong...do you want to be a devout Pharisee or a follower of Jesus?

OkCornel:


If circumcision is the seal required of people to commit to the old covenant terms

those were shadows of christ. what christmas fulfilled is no applicable. christ dindint fulfil freewill offering nor tithe, nor alms. where did the bible says to stop tithing

The best explanation so far on what tithe is and why it is inapplicable in this era
https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/4157/did-jesus-endorse-tithing-for-all-when-addressing-the-pharisees/5862

OkCornel:


If circumcision is the seal required of people to commit to the old covenant terms (which includes animal sacrifice and tithing) , and Paul clearly preached that circumcision is not a requirement for you to be a member under the terms of the new covenant

The curcumcission of the Old Testament was a shadow of the real .

Philippians 3:3 (KJV)
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.


Christ has fulfilled the real . Tithes and offering ,alms ,prayers has no fulfillment . The were not shadows . They were principles . And principles transcend dispensations .

...please how is tithing then obligatory for Christians to follow?

I prefer the word "necessity " tithes and offerings ,prayers ,alms ,fastings etc are all necessities .

Moreso, even when gold and silver were the legal tender in ancient times, where did God instruct His children through the Law to pay tithes monetarily?

I showed you more that enough times where money were used. I may not go round in circles

petra1 , don't get it twisted...the Law in itself has eternal principles...even the new covenant has eternal principles, that's why you must make a choice on which side you belong to. You cannot eat out of the Tree of Life (New Covenant) and the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil (Law - Old Covenant) at the same time.

The principles of the kingdom cut across both Old and new . The New is based on the old principles

The Law is no longer obligatory on Christians... choose where you belong...do you want to be a devout Pharisee or a follower of Jesus?

I gree with you . The law was given for man to pursue righteousness but because of the fallen nature . The law only reveal their inadequacy. Because the sin nature could not do right .


Romans 7:10-16 (KJV)
And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.


The best among men is still a sinner . So God gave man righteousness without the works of the law. But that doesn't destroy the content of godly principles in the law. sin is a transgression of the law.

1 John 3:4 (KJV)
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


The only weakness of the law is when a man wants to be justified by works . He has fallen from grace . But as long as you're not seeking salvation through works . The law is a guide for right and wrong. That's the only document we have . If you throw the law out . What we have. Left is lawlesnes . The only reason Paul could condemn homosexuality is because it's against the law. The only reason Paul could uphold honoring parents is because the law say so . If you comdemdn the law . You will be in contradiction mess .