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What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving - Religion (15) - Nairaland

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Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by petra1(m): 9:27pm On Dec 14, 2017
OkCornel:


God specifically stated what to is to be tithed in Deutoronomy 14;
Deutronomy 14 v 22-29

Tithes
22 Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year.

23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and olive oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the Lord your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the Lord your God always.

24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the Lord your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the Lord will choose to put his Name is so far away),

25 then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the Lord your God will choose.

26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish.
Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice.

27 And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own.

28 At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year’s produce and store it in your towns,

29 so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the foreigners, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.

Those are the 10 percent for feast and for charity . Not the main tithe to God which is traced to Abraham . God clearly spelt it out in lev 27:30

Leviticus 27:30
And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's: it is holy unto the Lord


Dear "Tithers" I have copied and pasted the scriptures in NIV version. My questions are;

1) How did Tithe convert itself from foodstuffs as prescribed by God and now perverted into 10% of gold and silver as preached by
Pastorpreneurs?

I've not heard anyone talk about tithe in gold and silver but you . If you buy if you know such a one kindly ask him

2) Isn't tithe meant to be eaten and given at my discretion to "Levites" without inheritance, widows, stranded foreigners and Orphans?

Wrong! Tithe is given to God . And it's strictly for the use of the ministers in Gods house .

Numbers 18:21-25
21 And, behold, I have given the Levites all the tithes in Israel for an inheritance in return for their service which they serve, the [menial] service of the Tent of Meeting.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained [/b]that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.


The 10% for the poor is different .it doesn't replace the annual one given to God It is given every 3 years . The 10% that is eaten is different from the one given to God . That's the confusion Daddy Freeze caused for those who didn't bother to check his error. You may read my thread on it .https://www.nairaland.com/4169634/error-daddy-freeze

3) Is it scriptural to pay monetary "tithes" to Men of God with vast inheritances here on earth?

Correction: Tithes are given to God not to men .

4) If I am not into farming or herding...do I need to even tithe?

Yes . What's the recorded tithe of Abraham farm produce

[b]5) Did God give instructions to Abraham on what to tithe...or did Abraham tithe out of his discretion?

6) Are we following Abraham's standard on tithing or God's specific standard on tithing?

Tithing is a principle of worship of God revealed through our father Abraham . It has been part of God worship ever since .
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by petra1(m): 9:42pm On Dec 14, 2017
mickeymimi:

Hi ........do you think he is talking about money ..

Yes

my understanding is

Minister ..teach , Seed word of God.....food , u can eat , digest , swallow it...4 ur soul. ,, multiply ,,,increase in the knowledge and understanding of word .......Increase in righteousness ,,,conscious of sin and living holy life.


2 Corinthians 9:10 (Weymouth New Testament)
And God who continually supplies seed for the sower and bread for eating, will supply you with seed and multiply it, and will cause your almsgiving to yield a plentiful harvest.

1 Like 1 Share

Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by plainbibletruth: 10:05pm On Dec 14, 2017
1. Freewill offering is the ONLY way God requires the Christian to give under the New Covenant.

2. Each Christian today is a member of what constitutes the BODY of Christ. The body of Christ is not a geographical entity like Israel but a spiritual entity.

3. Any talk about the "house of God" today that does not take cognizance of it as being made up of individual Christians BUT RATHER as a physical ORGANIZATION misses the mark as to what God's operational system is today.

4. Therefore, when some claim that "Tithe to God is given in the house of God" , the question is: which house? Is it a physical entity or the individuals that constitutes the body of Christ?

5. God does not bless necessarily because a Christian gives money. A Christian who gives to get from God does not understand that God had already blessed him with Christ who is beyond money and that his GIVING is expected to be an expression of his WORSHIP of God for who and what he is.

6. Just as the MOSAIC LAW replaced everything before it, and no one will be justified in going back to any previous system, the NEW COVENANT replaced the Law, and by extension everything before it. Where ANYTHING in the OLD is still required (or modified, confirmed or endorsed) under the NEW it will be clearly stated.

7. It was the ENTIRE LAW that was regarded as a SHADOW and not just parts of it. The reality is said to be in Christ. Any part required of the Christian in the New reality in Christ will be EMPHASISED in the New Covenant.

8. It should be clear to tithers that tithing was NOT regarded by Jesus as a "WEIGHTIER" matter of the Law. Why they have now ELEVATED it to the point of attaching blessings and cursing to it today shows that there is an ulterior motive to its propagation.

1 Like 1 Share

Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by mickeymimi: 11:25pm On Dec 14, 2017
petra1:


Yes




2 Corinthians 9:10 (Weymouth New Testament)
And God who continually supplies seed for the sower and bread for eating, will supply you with seed and multiply it, and will cause your almsgiving to yield a plentiful harvest.



OK I agreee... but from parable of the sower and some part of the bible ...it also means the word of God

, Jesus warns against giving alms ("giving to the needy"wink for the purpose of getting attention, as it is an act of worship to God.In Luke 11:41, Jesus tells the Pharisees that though they act in all the right ways, they don't "give alms" out of themselves. They may give money to the poor, but they don't give love, respect, and kindness. In Acts 3, when confronted with a lame beggar, Peter wasn't hindered by his lack of money. He said, "I have no silver and gold, but what I do have I give to you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk!
so we say that the Bible does allow that alms can be food , word of God, healing, and even justice and kindness.

Dictionary meaning of
almsgiving involves giving to others as an act of virtue, either materially or in the sense of providing capabilities (e.g. education) free, with no expectation of personal reimbursement. Meaning we dont give or sow because we want something from God or because a minister said so but from the abundance of our heart....freewill giving...donations.. to ministries ,,poor ,,needy etc ..anyway thank you
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by OkCornel(m): 4:04am On Dec 15, 2017
petra1:


Those are the 10 percent for feast and for charity . Not the main tithe to God which is traced to Abraham . God clearly spelt it out in lev 27:30


Very good, now do you know that giving away a portion of spoils of war to an authority has been an ancient Pagan tradition even before Abraham did so to Melchizedek? I will ask you this question again, did God instruct Abraham to pay Melchizedek or did Abraham do so out of his discretion?

petra1:

Leviticus 27:30
And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's: it is holy unto the Lord


Very very good, the Bible verse you quoted has described what exactly should be tithed. How does this now translate into 10% of monthly salary of people who are not into farming or rearing of livestock?


petra1:

I've not heard anyone talk about tithe in gold and silver but you . If you buy if you know such a one kindly ask him

Gold and silver here figuratively means your monthly income in cash. Why are the Patropreneurs preaching this false doctrine?


petra1:

Wrong! Tithe is given to God . And it's strictly for the use of the ministers in Gods house .

Numbers 18:21-25
21 And, behold, I have given the Levites all the tithes in Israel for an inheritance in return for their service which they serve, the [menial] service of the Tent of Meeting.

1 Corinthians 9:13-14
Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? [b]Even so hath the Lord ordained [/b]that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

Asides the Children of Israel, were Christian gentiles in the days of the Apostles also required to pay tithes?

petra1:


The 10% for the poor is different .it doesn't replace the annual one given to God It is given every 3 years . The 10% that is eaten is different from the one given to God . That's the confusion Daddy Freeze caused for those who didn't bother to check his error. You may read my thread on it .https://www.nairaland.com/4169634/error-daddy-freeze

Correction: Tithes are given to God not to men .

Wrong! Tithes are to consumed by the giver of the tithes, the Levites with no inheritance, the widows and orphans, and stranded aliens.
According to the scriptures, is tithe money (gold or silver or cash) or is it foodstuffs?

petra1:


Yes . What's the recorded tithe of Abraham farm produce

Tithing is a principle of worship of God revealed through our father Abraham . It has been part of God worship ever since .

Very wrong again, God did not instruct Abraham to pay anything. Abraham gave out a part of the spoils of war to a recognized authority which has very much been the practice in the ancient pagan world. Do not replace God's standard for tithing with Abraham's voluntary discretion as the standard. In Abraham's time, God did not give a clear instruction on what should be tithed. Now that God gave clear instructions to Moses on what should be tithed, are you preaching that God's standard for tithing be disregarded for the voluntary and discretionary basis used by Abraham?

Just like tithing, animal sacrifice is also a principle that predates the Law. If Jesus never opened his mouth to condemn and abolish animal sacrifice, why are you not doing it as part of the implied requirements in His discussion with the Pharisees in Matthew 23 v 23?

If you say Jesus has fulfilled the requirements of the Old Covenant, is tithing not part of the Old Covenant requirements replaced by sacrificial giving which would be the basis of separating the Goats from Sheeps in Matthew 25 v 31-46?

1 Like 1 Share

Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by KENZINCO(m): 2:53pm On Dec 15, 2017
saintmark88:


U r case is beyond redemption....if pple can allowed themselves to be burned to death by pastors here in Nigeria. If pple can be brainwashed to commit suicide . I am not surprised by this outburst of nonsense. #sheeple #underaspell #brainwashed
the worse conversation you can start with a person is the one you start with a fool who literally think he's the wisest person on earth(the can even be wiser than the creator sometimes) failing to withdraw from such conversation might gradually induct you as part of the fools family. I'm off.
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by saintmark88(m): 3:16pm On Dec 15, 2017
KENZINCO:
the worse conversation you can start with a person is the one you start with a fool who literally think he's the wisest person on earth(the can even be wiser than the creator sometimes) failing to withdraw from such conversation might gradually induct you as part of the fools family. I'm off.

Even those recruited to be suicide bombers for boko haram and Isis don't agree they have been brainwashed...so ur case is no different.....#freethesheeple
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by ojoagba: 2:01pm On Dec 16, 2017
saintmark88:


Na was o...how do u tink set.....so building structures is now waht Christianity is about.... Have u asked urself y with all these, structures, crime is increasing, fraud is going up, kidnapping everywhere, armed robbery, ritual killing...pple r doing all these for money, that's because the standard of living is poor, pple must survive so they do everything to find their daily bread.

My brother u r so ignorant,u can't see farther than ur nose, how does the structure put food on the table of pple, d govt has failed, d church which is supposed to be a support for these pple r milking the same pple and telling dem God will provide, I'm collecting from u because I want u to go out of poverty, so these Christians result to crime

i think your anger will be better and sweeter if its redirected to abuja. if u think any of those men are guilty, sue them to court or better still, open your own church and kill poverty. if u cant open a church, use your talent, get cool money and share it to stop poverty. stingy people always expect to get from others. are the people ur accusing not contributing positively to the society? there are millions who are under the parol of these churches. contractors are hired to execute projects. make dem kill demselves?
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by saintmark88(m): 3:36pm On Dec 16, 2017
ojoagba:


i think your anger will be better and sweeter if its redirected to abuja. if u think any of those men are guilty, sue them to court or better still, open your own church and kill poverty. if u cant open a church, use your talent, get cool money and share it to stop poverty. stingy people always expect to get from others. are the people ur accusing not contributing positively to the society? there are millions who are under the parol of these churches. contractors are hired to execute projects. make dem kill demselves?

I'm happy u r civil in ur response. Now lemme ask u, tell me d difference bw our religious leaders and our political leaders in terms of how wealthy they r??....not just that, how they flaunt this wealthy life style??..... Wen u r sincere to urself den I'll engage u more...cheers
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by WhichWayNaija: 6:44pm On Dec 16, 2017
petra1:


Tithe could be cash or kind . It's your choice . Was Abraham tithe to Melchizedek crops?
Abraham's tithe wasn't from his wealth but the spoils of war, remember?
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by petra1(m): 9:51pm On Dec 16, 2017
WhichWayNaija:

Abraham's tithe wasn't from his wealth but the spoils of war, remember?

That was only an incidence . Besides It was his booty. He had jurisdiction
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by ojoagba: 3:21pm On Dec 18, 2017
saintmark88:


I'm happy u r civil in ur response. Now lemme ask u, tell me d difference bw our religious leaders and our political leaders in terms of how wealthy they r??....not just that, how they flaunt this wealthy life style??..... Wen u r sincere to urself den I'll engage u more...cheers

is been rich a sin? when satan tempted Jesus about giving him the world, he responded by saying everything under the heaven is owned by my father which also implies been his because, his heir (dj cuppy, otedola's daughter is not poor). solomon was rich, david and abraham were all rich. in their time, they had the best things available such as donkeys, oxen, sheep, servants, etc.

sir, Can't you have a father (God) who is so rich and become a poor child? freeze agitation is not really tithing but pained that God is blessing those whom he chooses to bless. if the people are poor because pastors "refused" to help, what will stop u from developing your talent and help stop poverty in the world? freeze opened a challenge advising his followers to help save souls and till date, non of the critics has given a dim thereby confirming the popular say; 'talk is cheap'.
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by OkCornel(m): 3:28pm On Dec 18, 2017
ojoagba:


is been rich a sin? when satan tempted Jesus about giving him the world, he responded by saying everything under the heaven is owned by my father which also implies been his because, his heir (dj cuppy, otedola's daughter is not poor). solomon was rich, david and abraham were all rich. in their time, they had the best things available such as donkeys, oxen, sheep, servants, etc.

sir, Can't you have a father (God) who is so rich and become a poor child? freeze agitation is not really tithing but pained that God is blessing those whom he chooses to bless. if the people are poor because pastors "refused" to help, what will stop u from developing your talent and help stop poverty in the world? freeze opened a challenge advising his followers to help save souls and till date, non of the critics has given a dim thereby confirming the popular say; 'talk is cheap'.

I guess the Catholoc Bishops who were beneficiaries of God's "blessings" through the penance (money) paid by ignorant parishioners made Martin Luther jealous and pained that he led a revolution in the church which made the Protestants/Pentecostals breakaway from the Catholic church.


Face it, the doctrine of obligatory monetary tithing is a false one from the pit of hell... if in doubt, show us in the scriptures where God instructed people to pay tithes in gold and silver.

Thanks.
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by saintmark88(m): 4:08pm On Dec 18, 2017
ojoagba:


is been rich a sin? when satan tempted Jesus about giving him the world, he responded by saying everything under the heaven is owned by my father which also implies been his because, his heir (dj cuppy, otedola's daughter is not poor). solomon was rich, david and abraham were all rich. in their time, they had the best things available such as donkeys, oxen, sheep, servants, etc.

sir, Can't you have a father (God) who is so rich and become a poor child? freeze agitation is not really tithing but pained that God is blessing those whom he chooses to bless. if the people are poor because pastors "refused" to help, what will stop u from developing your talent and help stop poverty in the world? freeze opened a challenge advising his followers to help save souls and till date, non of the critics has given a dim thereby confirming the popular say; 'talk is cheap'.

How do u know none has given a dime, will dey come and tell u they have given, d oda day one pastor has stopped collecting tithe in his church after listening to freeze and studying the bible.

How come u fail to mention Jesus....d only begotten son of God, how come he wasn't rich since he has a rich Father, what about d apostles, what bout John the baptist, what about peter,Paul, james, john, Barnabas and so on. You mentioned kings of isreal David, solomon, Abraham would even be classified as a king because he led wars and defeated kingdoms and claimed their belongings.

Jesus said it would be easier for the head of a camel to pass thru d eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into d kingdom of God. This statement was made by Jesus himself.

There is no problem been rich, but if u collect from pple and use to money to live a life of wealth right bfre the very eyes of the pple u take this money from, build schs tht they cannot afford and pray for dem telling them God will bless dem..... Hmm hmmm remember God is watching u

What so ever u do, to d lipeast of my brethren, that u do unto meeeeeee.
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by dyydxx: 8:12pm On Dec 20, 2017
plainbibletruth:
1. Freewill offering is the ONLY way God requires the Christian to give under the New Covenant.

2. Each Christian today is a member of what constitutes the BODY of Christ. The body of Christ is not a geographical entity like Israel but a spiritual entity.

3. Any talk about the "house of God" today that does not take cognizance of it as being made up of individual Christians BUT RATHER as a physical ORGANIZATION misses the mark as to what God's operational system is today.

4. Therefore, when some claim that "Tithe to God is given in the house of God" , the question is: which house? Is it a physical entity or the individuals that constitutes the body of Christ?

5. God does not bless necessarily because a Christian gives money. A Christian who gives to get from God does not understand that God had already blessed him with Christ who is beyond money and that his GIVING is expected to be an expression of his WORSHIP of God for who and what he is.

6. Just as the MOSAIC LAW replaced everything before it, and no one will be justified in going back to any previous system, the NEW COVENANT replaced the Law, and by extension everything before it. Where ANYTHING in the OLD is still required (or modified, confirmed or endorsed) under the NEW it will be clearly stated.

7. It was the ENTIRE LAW that was regarded as a SHADOW and not just parts of it. The reality is said to be in Christ. Any part required of the Christian in the New reality in Christ will be EMPHASISED in the New Covenant.

8. It should be clear to tithers that tithing was NOT regarded by Jesus as a "WEIGHTIER" matter of the Law. Why they have now ELEVATED it to the point of attaching blessings and cursing to it today shows that there is an ulterior motive to its propagation.

1 billion likes! You ve said it all. Excellent. Nothing more to add
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by dyydxx: 8:17pm On Dec 20, 2017
OkCornel:



Very good, now do you know that giving away a portion of spoils of war to an authority has been an ancient Pagan tradition even before Abraham did so to Melchizedek? I will ask you this question again, did God instruct Abraham to pay Melchizedek or did Abraham do so out of his discretion?



Very very good, the Bible verse you quoted has described what exactly should be tithed. How does this now translate into 10% of monthly salary of people who are not into farming or rearing of livestock?




Gold and silver here figuratively means your monthly income in cash. Why are the Patropreneurs preaching this false doctrine?




Asides the Children of Israel, were Christian gentiles in the days of the Apostles also required to pay tithes?



Wrong! Tithes are to consumed by the giver of the tithes, the Levites with no inheritance, the widows and orphans, and stranded aliens.
According to the scriptures, is tithe money (gold or silver or cash) or is it foodstuffs?



Very wrong again, God did not instruct Abraham to pay anything. Abraham gave out a part of the spoils of war to a recognized authority which has very much been the practice in the ancient pagan world. Do not replace God's standard for tithing with Abraham's voluntary discretion as the standard. In Abraham's time, God did not give a clear instruction on what should be tithed. Now that God gave clear instructions to Moses on what should be tithed, are you preaching that God's standard for tithing be disregarded for the voluntary and discretionary basis used by Abraham?

Just like tithing, animal sacrifice is also a principle that predates the Law. If Jesus never opened his mouth to condemn and abolish animal sacrifice, why are you not doing it as part of the implied requirements in His discussion with the Pharisees in Matthew 23 v 23?

If you say Jesus has fulfilled the requirements of the Old Covenant, is tithing not part of the Old Covenant requirements replaced by sacrificial giving which would be the basis of separating the Goats from Sheeps in Matthew 25 v 31-46?

Excellent. Did you notice Petra1 couldn't come up with any kind of rebuttal. God bless you my bro

1 Like

Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by OkCornel(m): 8:23pm On Dec 20, 2017
dyydxx:


Excellent. Did you notice Petra1 couldn't come up with any kind of rebuttal. God bless you my bro

Thanks bro...it's well.

These people know the TRUTH, but they'll twist the scriptures to support a false doctrine.

I wonder what makes them any different from the serpent that deceived Eve.

May God Almighty save us from all these sort of false doctrines. Amen
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by dyydxx: 8:58pm On Dec 20, 2017
OkCornel:


Thanks bro...it's well.

These people know the TRUTH, but they'll twist the scriptures to support a false doctrine.

I wonder what makes them any different from the serpent that deceived Eve.

May God Almighty save us from all these sort of false doctrines. Amen

They all know the truth but since it's a cash cow they would never give it up but continue in it. Also, since many Christians have grown up with this misguided doctrine, some especially for decades...it has now become almost impossible to get rid off. Even many sincere Christians have come to somehow believe this tithing facade. it's really sad.

My mom ,a very devout Anglican christian, will tell you she has seen the blessings of God in her life because of tithing, and so it even becomes more difficult to even convince them otherwise that whatever blessings they are experiencing is definitely not because of any misguided tithing. This has made the whole situation very complicated. You will see sincere believers tell you they have since the fruits of tithing and are somehow convinced it's God's will. The matter tire me.
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by OkCornel(m): 9:08pm On Dec 20, 2017
dyydxx:


They all know the truth but since it's a cash cow they would never give it up but continue in it. Also, since many Christians have grown up with this misguided doctrine, some especially for decades...it has now become almost impossible to get rid off. Even many sincere Christians have come to somehow believe this tithing facade. it's really sad.

My mom ,a very devout Anglican christian, will tell you she has seen the blessings of God in her life because of tithing, and so it even becomes more difficult to even convince them otherwise that whatever blessings they are experiencing is definitely not because of any misguided tithing. This has made the whole situation very complicated. You will see sincere believers tell you they have since the fruits of tithing and are somehow convinced it's God's will. The matter tire me.

The part of your quote I bolded clearly shows that mammon replaced God in the church a long time ago...and it's this mammon mentality that's part of the reasons the Church of today is a shell of its former glory days in the times of the Apostles and early martyred saints.

Frankly speaking, I feel insulted that people think God's work is limited to money. The same God who created Heaven and Earth...see them defending the false doctrine of monetary tithes as if God used money to create Heaven and Earth.

They even preached that God's blessings is for sale to the highest tither. Very irritating I must say.
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by petra1(m): 3:08am On Dec 21, 2017
dyydxx:


Excellent. Did you notice Petra1 couldn't come up with any kind of rebuttal. God bless you my bro

Did I see the post in the first place? . I will read and respond .
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by dyydxx: 7:28am On Dec 21, 2017
petra1:


Did I see the post in the first place? . I will read and respond .

Please do, and answer in very clear terms referencing the relevant scriptures.

Freeze might be an hypocrite, but on this tithe matter he is spot on. God bless his soul. The pastorpreneurs all know this, that's why they are attacking him ad hominem. No one has been able to refute Freeze with scriptures and there is a very simple reason for that, The scriptures actually back up freeze.
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by MuttleyLaff: 8:33am On Dec 21, 2017
OkCornel:
Very good,
now do you know that giving away a portion of spoils of war to an authority has been an ancient Pagan tradition
even before Abraham did so to Melchizedek
?
I will ask you this question again,did God instruct Abraham to pay Melchizedek or did Abraham do so out of his discretion?
18Then Melchizedek, king of Salem, brought out bread and wine;
he was a priest to God Most High
19He blessed him and said:
Abram is blessed by God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth,
20and I give praise toab God Most High who has handed over your enemies to you.
And Abram gave him a tenth of everything

22But Abram said to the king of Sodom,
"I have raised my hand in an oath to Yahweh, God Most High, Creator of heaven and earth,

- Genesis 14:18-20, 22

Abraham was obligated by the customary law of those times that required the victor of fighting a battle to give 10% of the war spoils to a king cum priest of good repute
The other significant reason why Melchizedek was Abraham's preferred choice to hand over the tithe to, in accordance with this mandatory
customary practice, was BECAUSE of the common denominator fact that, they both share THE SAME belief in God Most High

OkCornel:
Very very good, the Bible verse you quoted has described what exactly should be tithed.
How does this now translate into 10% of monthly salary of people who are not into farming or rearing of livestock?
The 10% of monthly salary of people is an ecclesiastical tax
It was birthed after much deliberations at the Council of Tours and Council of Macon and grown to be what we see today

OkCornel:
Gold and silver here figuratively means your monthly income in cash.
Why are the Patropreneurs preaching this false doctrine?
But Peter said,
"I don't have any silver or gold for you.
But I'll give you what I have.
In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, get up and walk!"

- Acts 3:6

Dont waste your breath, as Petra1 knows what "gold and silver" means but he's just playing hide and seek

OkCornel:
Asides the Children of Israel, were Christian gentiles in the days of the Apostles also required to pay tithes?
The mandate to give or duty pay to tithe was exclusive only the Israelites (i.e. Children of Israel)
Foreigners in Israel, and/or Christian gentiles in the days of the Apostles ARE UNDER NO obligation to practice the commanded tithe giving

OkCornel:
Wrong!
Tithes are to consumed by the giver of the tithes, the Levites with no inheritance, the widows and orphans, and stranded aliens.
According to the scriptures, is tithe money (gold or silver or cash) or is it foodstuffs?
All tithes, back to back, has never been money
It always has been war spoil stuffs, agricultural produce or foodstuffs
Wherever and/or whereever it is money, this is transient,
because as soon as possiby can, it immediately is converted or changed back to agricultural produce or foodstuffs

OkCornel:
Very wrong again, God did not instruct Abraham to pay anything.
Abraham gave out a part of the spoils of war to a recognized authority which has very much been the practice in the ancient pagan world
Petra1 already has been made aware of this
but it hasnt yet sunk in with him

OkCornel:
Do not replace God's standard for tithing with Abraham's voluntary discretion as the standard.
In Abraham's time, God did not give a clear instruction on what should be tithed.
Now that God gave clear instructions to Moses on what should be tithed, are you preaching that God's standard for tithing be disregarded for the voluntary and discretionary basis used by Abraham?
Abraham tithing wasnt even voluntary and discretionary

Abraham, simply was following a customary practice that needed to be carried after successful win(s) of fighting a battle or war.

Abraham gave tithe under a custom law of that prevailing society setting,
this compelled him to give a tenth of war spoils to a king cum priest of considerable or worthwhile repute

The first appearance of tithing, in the bible, does get a first mention between Melchizedek and Abraham
however, the truth is, neither Melchizedek and Abraham started the 10% giving otherwise known as tithing,
As a matter of fact, tithing was a prevailing practice in the secular world of the Mesopotamia bible day times of that era

Abraham didnt take up arms and go into battle again, so there was no reason for Abraham to tithe again,
and so no reason to tithe to Melchizedek or to any other local ruler cum priest worthy of consideration
This is why there is not another mention of Abraham repeating an act of giving tithe again

OkCornel:
Just like tithing, animal sacrifice is also a principle that predates the Law.
If Jesus never opened his mouth to condemn and abolish animal sacrifice,
why are you not doing it as part of the implied requirements in His discussion with the Pharisees in Matthew 23 v 23?
Tithe is lucrative and unlike animal sacrifice, it isnt bloody, that is why grin grin grin

It was under the present circumstances, that Jesus says to tithe, not after
The Greek original word, "die", used in Matthew 23:23, means, it is necessary, that they tithe
but when that necessity is over, that duty or responsibility for them to do it, is no longer required

Tithe was dead upon the victory at Calvary
but the final nail in the tithe coffin was when the temple got roughly and abruptly destroyed
by the Romans in 70 AD

If you say Jesus has fulfilled the requirements of the Old Covenant,
is tithing not part of the Old Covenant requirements replaced by sacrificial giving which would be the basis of separating the Goats from Sheeps in Matthew 25 v 31-46?
You must each decide in your heart how much to give.
And don't give reluctantly or in response to pressure.
(i.e. you shouldn't be sorry that you gave or feel forced to give)
"For God loves a person who gives cheerfully."

- 2 Corinthians 9:7

The lack of faith in 2 Corinthians 9:7 above is obvious

If Jesus, for a casual visit, was to come back to earth here, now, just for second, He will condem tithing
He will frown at ecclesiastical tithe, where christian gatherings, taxes its members tenth, 1/10, 10% and possibly 0.1 too, of their financial income
He will ask:
Do you know what the gospel means and is?
Gospel means good news
and it typifies FREEDOM, from any type or form of obligatory or imposed tithing.

dyydxx:
Excellent.
Did you notice Petra1 couldn't come up with any kind of rebuttal. God bless you my bro

OkCornel:
Thanks bro...it's well.

These people know the TRUTH, but they'll twist the scriptures to support a false doctrine.

I wonder what makes them any different from the serpent that deceived Eve.

May God Almighty save us from all these sort of false doctrines. Amen

dyydxx:
They all know the truth but since it's a cash cow they would never give it up but continue in it.
Also, since many Christians have grown up with this misguided doctrine, some especially for decades...
it has now become almost impossible to get rid off.
Even many sincere Christians have come to somehow believe this tithing facade. it's really sad.

My mom, a very devout Anglican christian, will tell you she has seen the blessings of God in her life because of tithing,
and so it even becomes more difficult to even convince them otherwise that whatever blessings they are experiencing is definitely not because of any misguided tithing.
This has made the whole situation very complicated.
You will see sincere believers tell you they have since the fruits of tithing and are somehow convinced it's God's will.
The matter tire me
.
dyydxx, the tithing subtle difference, which keeps getting lost on the tithe tribe, is the term obligatory or imposed

It is obligatory, taxed or imposed tithing that believers cannot tithe

It is imposed tithing, which is dead with the law
and so believers are not obligated to perform any form of imposed tithing

The tithe tribe dont appreciate or recognise the nuance in tithe or tithing,
which is tithe could be religious, demanded, taxed, obligatory or imposed
Ecclesiastical tithe is performing something imposed and so consequently is a religious duty

Anyone giving imposed tithing is practising a religion, that God our Father doesnt accept as pure and faultless
(i.e. refer to James 1:27 for details)

Correctively, the Bible teaches the "church" the revolutionary way of giving,
where believers are instructed or urged in 2 Corinthians 9:7 above, to do

dyydxx, ask your Mom to stop the ecclesiastical tithe for a three months trial
but to practice the principle in 2 Corinthians 9:7 above instead
and see whether she would or not experience, unexplainable diverse forms of blessings+breakthroughs

This is a tried, tested and guarantee pass in flying colors thing, a believer, once faithfully embarked on that journey, will never go back to a vomit

petra1:
How far will you go?
So you will legalize INCEST now just because of this tithe issue.
You Already insulted Abraham tithe and claim his tithe was nothing spiritual but common carnal tax.
Until we reminded you of Jacob . You said he didn't give. How far are going to rubbish the sacred word of God

MuttleyLaff:
It sounds like insult and a huge lie
but it actually is true
that the tithe Abraham gave Melchizedek was a customary tax (i.e. tithe of war spoils) that battle victors are obliged to give to a king cum priest that's of good repute
This is a historical fact
I didnt class it as common, you did, not me

petra1:
Did I see the post in the first place?. I will read and respond.
dyydxx, I dont think Petra1's response to OkCornel's, will be any different to a similar remark like the above which he earlier made at me
I have reproduced it again below:

You already insulted Abraham tithe
and claim his tithe was nothing spiritual but common carnal tax.
Until we reminded you of Jacob

- © petra1
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by dyydxx: 9:28am On Dec 21, 2017
@Muttleylaff

God bless you. Honestly it gladdens my heart so see that we have berean christians in our midst grin who can do independent research and verify scriptures, holding fast to that which is good and true as the bible admonishes. I'm very happy we still have those that can see clearly the truth and the difference between religion and the gospel.

My mom na 'Mama Ijo'..lol (People's warden) of the church, infact she is the 'tithe enforcer' cry if I can describe it like that). Her mindset is very firmly in the tithe tribe very much just like Petra1. She will even tell you her personal experiences and conviction on how God has blessed her from being a faithful tither. it's a tall order trying to convince a 65 year old woman grin

The consequences of this revelations or should I say unintended consequences is that how do people cope with the fact that they have believed a lie for decades, because they are in a limbo. I believe that's the issue with Petra1 too, same thing that any sincere believer will have to wrsetle with after the truth dawns on his/her heart. what do they do? in Petra1 case, he might even be the one preaching and encouraging believers to tithe, and for years. They would much rather hold on to the religion than get delivered from this kind of error.
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by MuttleyLaff: 10:00am On Dec 21, 2017
dyydxx:
@Muttleylaff

God bless you. Honestly it gladdens my heart so see that we have berean christians in our midst grin who can do independent research and verify scriptures, holding fast to that which is good and true as the bible admonishes. I'm very happy we still have those that can see clearly the truth and the difference between religion and the gospel.

My mom na 'Mama Ijo'..lol (People's warden) of the church, infact she is the 'tithe enforcer' cry if I can describe it like that).
Her mindset is very firmly in the tithe tribe very much just like Petra1.
She will even tell you her personal experiences and conviction on how God has blessed her from being a faithful tither.
it's a tall order trying to convince a 65 year old woman grin

The consequences of this revelations or should I say unintended consequences is that how do people cope with the fact that they have believed a lie for decades, because they are in a limbo.
I believe that's the issue with Petra1 too, same thing that any sincere believer will have to wrsetle with after the truth dawns on his/her heart. what do they do? in Petra1 case, he might even be the one preaching and encouraging believers to tithe, and for years.
They would much rather hold on to the religion that get delivered from this kind of error.
Brother, I have been there, done that, even have the tithe T-shirt I bought
I was not bad, not worse, but was the worst.

I was so concerned, even beyond being pedantic, with minor details and "rules" about tithing
I remember, back in the day, making it my duty, and correcting the money counters, against mixing up tithes with the "offering"

My brother, we all have access to the same level of grace, power and faith
Whatever we make available to receive each and/or all is the amount we get to use
So in effect, most believers because of dirty and unholy doctrines are short-changing themselves and become victims of underutilisation

If, I were you, I will after, making her comfortable and much pampering, sit her down for a loving mother-son tete-a-tete and tell the following
It is wrong raining fire and brimstone from the pulpit, on believers who choose not to give mandatory tithe
It is wrong frightening believers who choose not to give regular specified percentage of their financial income , they're in danger of misfortune
It is wrong subjecting believers to tithe harangues because they default in tithe payment or choose not give tithe as a mandatory or obligatory giving
It is wrong going on at tithe, keeping on at it, keeping after it, like it's tirelessly done from and on the pulpit

and then after that, make a proposal for to give it a try to stop the ecclesiastical tithe for a three months trial
but to practice the principle in 2 Corinthians 9:7 above instead
and see whether she would or not experience, unexplainable diverse forms of blessings+breakthroughs

Tell her, it is a tried, tested and guarantee pass in flying colors thing,
that you a believer, is an evidence of one, who faithfully embarked on that journey,
that your life has never been the same since you broke free of the yoke and so never will go back to the vomit

Tell her that, after the 3 months trial period, if the experience is a painful, regrettable or bitter one,
you and I, as in her son and this her other son, your brother from another mother, for her lifetime,
will be remitting regular 10% of our financial incomes into her bank account or any charitible organisation of her choice
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by dyydxx: 11:10am On Dec 21, 2017
MuttleyLaff:
Brother, I have been there, done that, even have the tithe T-shirt I bought
I was not bad, not worse, but was the worst.

I was so concerned, even beyond being pedantic, with minor details and "rules" about tithing
I remember, back in the day, making it my duty, and correcting the money counters, against mixing up tithes with the "offering"

My brother, we all have access to the same level of grace, power and faith
Whatever we make available to receive each and/or all is the amount we get to use
So in effect, most believers because of dirty and unholy doctrines are short-changing themselves and become victims of underutilisation

If, I were you, I will after, making her comfortable and much pampering, sit her down for a loving mother-son tete-a-tete and tell the following
It is wrong raining fire and brimstone from the pulpit, on believers who choose not to give mandatory tithe
It is wrong frightening believers who choose not to give regular specified percentage of their financial income , they're in danger of misfortune
It is wrong subjecting believers to tithe harangues because they default in tithe payment or choose not give tithe as a mandatory or obligatory giving
It is wrong going on at tithe, keeping on at it, keeping after it, like it's tirelessly done from and on the pulpit

and then after that, make a proposal for to give it a try to stop the ecclesiastical tithe for a three months trial
but to practice the principle in 2 Corinthians 9:7 above instead
and see whether she would or not experience, unexplainable diverse forms of blessings+breakthroughs

Tell her, it is a tried, tested and guarantee pass in flying colors thing,
that you a believer, is an evidence of one, who faithfully embarked on that journey,
that your life has never been the same since you broke free of the yoke and so never will go back to the vomit

Tell her that, after the 3 months trial period, if the experience is a painful, regrettable or bitter one,
you and I, as in her son and this her other son, your brother from another mother, for her lifetime,
will be remitting regular 10% of our financial incomes into her bank account or any charitible organisation of her choice

Thank you so much. will definitely try this out
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by petra1(m): 11:28am On Dec 21, 2017
WhichWayNaija:

Abraham's tithe wasn't from his wealth but the spoils of war, remember?

It was by right.secondly the king still officially gave it to him. But Abraham only removed tithe and return the rest. It was under his control

1 Like 1 Share

Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by MuttleyLaff: 11:39am On Dec 21, 2017
dyydxx:
Thank you so much. will definitely try this out
Please keep me posted, because I was, I am serious,
and as all this, is borne out from personal tried, tested and good beautiful experience.

Just be alert, prepared and waiting patiently, ready to go through the gap of the window of opportunity when it slides open, for you to jump in to do it.
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by MuttleyLaff: 11:44am On Dec 21, 2017
petra1:
It was by right.
secondly the king still officially gave it to him
But Abraham only removed tithe and return the rest. It was under his control
Hmm, I salute you ooo
Mo gbedi, beri fun e oo
Which king are you talking of?
Is it king of Salem or the king of Sodom you're talking of?
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by petra1(m): 1:41pm On Dec 22, 2017
MuttleyLaff:
Hmm, I salute you ooo
Mo gbedi, beri fun e oo
Which king are you talking of?
Is it king of Salem or the king of Sodom you're talking of?

soddom na
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by petra1(m): 1:46pm On Dec 22, 2017
MuttleyLaff:
Brother, I have been there, done that, even have the tithe T-shirt I bought
I was not bad, not worse, but was the worst.

I was so concerned, even beyond being pedantic, with minor details and "rules" about tithing
I remember, back in the day, making it my duty, and correcting the money counters, against mixing up tithes with the "offering"


You keh ? strange to hear. So who bewitched thee then ?
Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by petra1(m): 1:58pm On Dec 22, 2017
dyydxx:
@Muttleylaff

God bless you. Honestly it gladdens my heart so see that we have berean christians in our midst grin who can do independent research and verify scriptures,

why didn't you apply this berean principle to daddy freeze lie.

My mom na 'Mama Ijo'..lol (People's warden) of the church, infact she is the 'tithe enforcer' cry if I can describe it like that). Her mindset is very firmly in the tithe tribe very much just like Petra1. She will even tell you her personal experiences and conviction on how God has blessed her from being a faithful tither. it's a tall order trying to convince a 65 year old woman

mama ijo was right.My mom was mama imo too. always sleeping in church and volunteered to always wash church toilet pit latrine while i as a teenager supplies her buckets of water from the well. Foundation from such God serving women should not be thrown away by new age doctrine .

The consequences of this revelations or should I say unintended consequences is that how do people cope with the fact that they have believed a lie for decades, because they are in a limbo. I believe that's the issue with Petra1 too, same thing that any sincere believer will have to wrsetle with after the truth dawns on his/her heart. what do they do? in Petra1 case, he might even be the one preaching and encouraging believers to tithe, and for years. They would much rather hold on to the religion than get delivered from this kind of error.

what if you realise you believed wrongly about tithe. as long as you believe in ofering and alms ,you should give tithe also . They are principles in the kingdom of God . church age is only an interuption . church age is not for ever. the kingdom of God is bigger than the church.

1 Like

Re: What Daddy Freeze Won't Tell The Sheeples About Church Giving by petra1(m): 2:07pm On Dec 22, 2017
dyydxx:


Please do, and answer in very clear terms referencing the relevant scriptures.

Freeze might be an hypocrite, but on this tithe matter he is spot on.

he lied

. No one has been able to refute Freeze with scriptures and there is a very simple reason for that, The scriptures actually back up freeze.

wrong. what of all the rebuttal and responses of tithers on nairaland on social media. Most antitithers are not even rwadin. they are more concerned about the anti church political campaign . many pastors responded on youtube and Facebook but nairaland will ignore such. The nairaland picture of the body of christ is satanic.

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