Sarassin:

Exactly. Just as Gamaliel predicted.

People seem to think Jesus made that prediction.

Emmanystone:

Lolzzz where did you get the bolded from? I don't believe in Extra Biblical speculations. The Word of God is enough for me.
Mark 6:3
Then they scoffed, "He's just a carpenter, the son of Mary and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas, and Simon. And his sisters live right here among us." They were deeply offended and refused to believe in him

New American Standard Bible
The Jews then were astonished, saying, "How has this man become learned, having never been educated?"

Trust me if Jesus Christ attended School which were not as common as they are today, his contemporaries will know and won't be in doubt.

Jesus was a child consecrated before his birth to a prophetic mission, by the express wish of his mother. In the first instance Jesus would have received his early instruction, and first become acquainted with the Scriptures at instruction of his parents under the calm and serenity of Galilee.

We know at least that Jesus could read. Interestingly the Gospels have maintained perfect silence regarding the doings of Jesus, previous to his meeting with John the Baptist, through whom, according to them, he took possession of his ministry but the debut of Jesus at the banks of the Jordan evidently took place after a long learning process this learning must have taken place in the only place in Israel, which, at that time, preserved the real traditions of the prophets and kept their ways of life.

We know that his mother Mary had links with the Essene Order, and that Joseph the father who was out of the picture much earlier was of the Pharisee class. At the time of Jesus the Order of the Essenes were the last remnants of the prophetic brotherhood set up by Samuel. They took refuge in silence and solitude simply preserving their traditions. They had two principal centres, one in Egypt and the other in Palestine, at Engaddi, near the Dead Sea.

The Essene Order accepted the children of the poor and gave them food, shelter and an education. Right there at Engaddi cut off from the immediate surrounds of Nazareth for many years, together with other children of the poor who were later to become his trusted disciples, this is where Jesus would have received the spiritual indoctrination preserved through a select band of prophets from Samuel to Elijah, Elisha and Ezekiel taught by the Essenes.

The evidence that Jesus was educated by the Order of the Essene’s is profuse. Upon acceptance which was usually after a One year induction members were made to swear “terrible oaths” to observe the rules of the Order and to betray none of its secrets.
The very silence kept by Jesus and his disciples about the Essenes speaks volumes. Why does he who attacks with unparalleled courage all the religious sects of his day, never mention the Essenes? And why do the apostles never even refer to them? Evidently because they considered the Essenes as part of themselves.

Sarassin:

Why does he who attacks with unparalleled courage all the religious sects of his day, never mention the Essenes? And why do the apostles never even refer to them? Evidently because they considered the Essenes as part of themselves.

Wow!!! Just to add, about 15 years ago I came across a very interesting book which discussed this topic of Jesus being trained by Essenes. Of course at the time I never took it seriously, but reading this now... The author also claimed that it was Jesus’ lookalike brother who was crucified.

LotusFan:


Wow!!! Just to add, about 15 years ago I came across a very interesting book which discussed this topic of Jesus being treajned by Essenes. Of course at the time I never took it seriously, but reading this now... The author also claimed that it was Jesus’ lookalike brother who was crucified.

There is a lot of evidence pointing to the fact that Jesus was taught the Essene way. He brought many of their teachings into mainstream, the very idea of communal dining for instance culminating in the "Last Supper" as well as communal ownership, the dead give-away is the "Miraculous Healings".

Whilst there are apocryphal writings alluding to a "Twin Jesus" for instance the Gnostic Thomas e.t.c., there is no real evidence (or at least, I have seen none) to suggest that a Twin Jesus was crucified in his place.

Emmanystone:

Lolzzz where did you get the bolded from? I don't believe in Extra Biblical speculations. The Word of God is enough for me.
Mark 6:3
Then they scoffed, "He's just a carpenter, the son of Mary and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas, and Simon. And his sisters live right here among us." They were deeply offended and refused to believe in him

New American Standard Bible
The Jews then were astonished, saying, "How has this man become learned, having never been educated?"

Trust me if Jesus Christ attended School which were not as common as they are today, his contemporaries will know and won't be in doubt.

Hmmmm ....isn't the Bible given to us through humans? The most important person in Christendom is Jesus but about 30 years of his 33 years are missing in the Bible , so you may not know. But those who were aware of his coming -long before Herod ,and who had prepared for Him starting from Egypt where he started His education kept proper records meant for only true seekers.

Sarassin:


There is a lot of evidence pointing to the fact that Jesus was taught the Essene way. He brought many of their teachings into mainstream, the very idea of communal dining for instance culminating in the "Last Supper" as well as communal ownership, the dead give-away is the "Miraculous Healings".

Whilst there are apocryphal writings alluding to a "Twin Jesus" for instance the Gnostic Thomas e.t.c., there is no real evidence (or at least, I have seen none) to suggest that a Twin Jesus was crucified in his place.

A few books I've come across speak of a look alike Jesus that was crucified. not exactly twin. But most suggests if he was killed, his group wouldn't have kept quiet as was evident with the death of James the Just.

Although, I am not trying to say there's hard proof supporting this but there's a chance that they might have truth in them afterall history is just "his story".

And yes, even the teachings ascribed to Jesus in the Bible shows he's no stranger to the Essenes and their teachings. Even the born again teaching was strictly Essene. Though it means different things to different people now but it's a sacred ritual of rebirth to bring in anyone into the fold of "The Poor" (That's what they also call themselves.)

I'm glad I'm not the only one who knows this. That's why I like reading from you dear Sarassin. I pray to reach where you've been. So much to experience and discover in life.

Babacele:
Hmmmm ....isn't the Bible given to us through humans? The most important person in Christendom is Jesus but about 30 years of his 33 years are missing in the Bible , so you may not know. But those who were aware of his coming -long before Herod ,and who had prepared for Him starting from Egypt where he started His education kept proper records meant for only true seekers.

Conspiracy Theories don't work with me. So I will leave you to your speculations. He student yet became a renown Carpenter abi?
Abeg. Enjoy your wile guesses.

Sarassin:


Jesus was a child consecrated before his birth to a prophetic mission, by the express wish of his mother. In the first instance Jesus would have received his early instruction, and first become acquainted with the Scriptures at instruction of his parents under the calm and serenity of Galilee.

We know at least that Jesus could read. Interestingly the Gospels have maintained perfect silence regarding the doings of Jesus, previous to his meeting with John the Baptist, through whom, according to them, he took possession of his ministry but the debut of Jesus at the banks of the Jordan evidently took place after a long learning process this learning must have taken place in the only place in Israel, which, at that time, preserved the real traditions of the prophets and kept their ways of life.

We know that his mother Mary had links with the Essene Order, and that Joseph the father who was out of the picture much earlier was of the Pharisee class. At the time of Jesus the Order of the Essenes were the last remnants of the prophetic brotherhood set up by Samuel. They took refuge in silence and solitude simply preserving their traditions. They had two principal centres, one in Egypt and the other in Palestine, at Engaddi, near the Dead Sea.

The Essene Order accepted the children of the poor and gave them food, shelter and an education. Right there at Engaddi cut off from the immediate surrounds of Nazareth for many years, together with other children of the poor who were later to become his trusted disciples, this is where Jesus would have received the spiritual indoctrination preserved through a select band of prophets from Samuel to Elijah, Elisha and Ezekiel taught by the Essenes.

The evidence that Jesus was educated by the Order of the Essene’s is profuse. Upon acceptance which was usually after a One year induction members were made to swear “terrible oaths” to observe the rules of the Order and to betray none of its secrets.
The very silence kept by Jesus and his disciples about the Essenes speaks volumes. Why does he who attacks with unparalleled courage all the religious sects of his day, never mention the Essenes? And why do the apostles never even refer to them? Evidently because they considered the Essenes as part of themselves.

My beloved, i have always known you to throw away what the Bible says, and prefers rather to go with speculations and what you think justifies your stand. I on the other have decided to take the Bible's accounts of the things and live by them.


All these going back and forth adds or takes nothing from the Fact that Jesus is the Son of God, Who had been a Spirit before coming to earth.

It doesn't change the fact that He died to give me redemption. Am saved by the Grace He offered by exchanging his righteousness for my Sin. His life for my death. His light for my darkness. And most of all, eternal life when am done with this world.

He has ascended into heaven, he will come back and when He does, the sheep and the goats shall receive their due rewards.

I don't care if he were in my village, if he were Chinese or Indian. Whether He was a medical doctor or farmer.


Hahahahahahahaha. Jesus, had to go to school to be able to read. Lolzzz.

Emmanystone:

Conspiracy Theories don't work with me. So I will leave you to your speculations. He student yet became a renown Carpenter abi?
Abeg. Enjoy your wile guesses.

you don't even know His real name ,birthplace and his works for about 3 decades and you are talking about conspiracy theory? Merry Xmas.

Emmanystone:

My beloved, i have always known you to throw away what the Bible says, and prefers rather to go with speculations and what you think justifies your stand. I on the other have decided to take the Bible's accounts of the things and live by them.


All these going back and forth adds or takes nothing from the Fact that Jesus is the Son of God, Who had been a Spirit before coming to earth.

It doesn't change the fact that He died to give me redemption. Am saved by the Grace He offered by exchanging his righteousness for my Sin. His life for my death. His light for my darkness. And most of all, eternal life when am done with this world.

He has ascended into heaven, he will come back and when He does, the sheep and the goats shall receive their due rewards.

I don't care if he were in my village, if he were Chinese or Indian. Whether He was a medical doctor or farmer.


Hahahahahahahaha. Jesus, had to go to school to be able to read. Lolzzz.

No one is arguing what you believe or disbelieve, we were referring to a period of at least twenty to twenty five years during which the NT gives no account of the life of Jesus, simples. Merry Christmas in advance dear.

correctguy101:


A few books I've come across speak of a look alike Jesus that was crucified. not exactly twin. But most suggests if he was killed, his group wouldn't have kept quiet as was evident with the death of James the Just.

Although, I am not trying to say there's hard proof supporting this but there's a chance that they might have truth in them afterall history is just "his story".

And yes, even the teachings ascribed to Jesus in the Bible shows he's no stranger to the Essenes and their teachings. Even the born again teaching was strictly Essene. Though it means different things to different people now but it's a sacred ritual of rebirth to bring in anyone into the fold of "The Poor" (That's what they also call themselves.)

I'm glad I'm not the only one who knows this. That's why I like reading from you dear Sarassin. I pray to reach where you've been. So much to experience and discover in life.

I expect you will go much further. Compliments of the season.

Sarassin:

You say Paul was a “Pharisee of Pharisees” and studied under Gamaliel. Thank God we know about Gamaliel from contemporary historical accounts as well as other religious writings such as the Mishnah if not for that you Christians will continue to pull the wool over our eyes.

I hope you realize that i'm a Christian and not a Pharisee in any way? Like i will keep saying, i will stand with what the Scriotures says in all of these matters not adding or subtracting, so, if Pauls says he was a Pharisee of the Pharisees, then He was the Pharisee of the Pharisees.amcos he was addressing his own people, the same pharisees who knew him, of whom he worked for until his conversion, they knew him. Who am i to say other wise?

Sarassin:

We know about Gamaliel who was a highly respected figure, he was given the title 'Rabban', as the leading sage of his day. He was the highest ranking Pharisee leader in the Sanhedrin in fact at one point he was the president of the court. We know that Paul was full of talk and bombast it is not unusual that he would claim a relationship with Gamaliel simply to enhance his standing, in his own words, Paul was “all things to all men”.

Do you realize Sir, that Paul was standing trial before the same Sanhedrin of whom Gamaliel was their head? Why was there no rebuttal in that regard when he stood before those who knew too well to make such a bold claim?

I hope someone reading will see what am seeing? Paul was standing trial, an accusations leveled against him were dire, and could end his life. As a matter if fact, by Law, he should be killed. Before these Court and elites, Paul will stand and lie against Gamaliel? lolzz.

Sarassin:

... In Paul's defence he never actually states in his own words that he studied under Gamaliel, what you have is the author of Acts putting words into Paul's own mouth, so in fact the possibility exists that Paul is entirely blameless in this instance

Acts:22:3
I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

I may not be as intelligent as you are i think i would know the voice of the persona speaking in a text.

Going by the verse posted above, the persona's voice there is a personal pronoun 'I'. The persona didn't speak in the second or third person, but the first person. If you say Saul was lying there, he also must be lying about coming from Cilicia too.

Sarassin:

Cast your mind back to when Peter stood accused before the Sanhedrin on trial for his life, who stood up for him to plead on his behalf when the Saducees wanted him dead? of course it was Gamaliel the leader of the Pharisees (Acts 5), when the votes were cast all the Pharisees voted in favour of sparing him except one notable “Pharisee of Pharisees” who voted with the Saducees to have Peter condemned to death.

Acts:5:34-35
Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;

And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.

What is the connection between this and him being Paul's lecturer? At this point. Paul was still Saul. Gamaliel was a good and a wise man obviously.

I don't see the connection anyways.

Sarassin:

So ask yourself why would Paul out of all the Pharisees cast a single dissenting vote even against his own so-called “teacher”?

Hmmm. You are making it seem like the Jews left the Apostles alone afterwards because Gamaliel said so. Remember, he didn't actually ask them not to go on with their onslaughts, he just gave them a note of warning to apply restrain.

Wasn't Peter arrested again, wasn't James killed, wasn't Paul and Silas later arrested and kept in that same prison? What you talking about pls?

Paul said 'I' gave my consent to those who stoned Stephen and kept their clothes from being stolen.

Him giving his concent didn't mean that only his vote condemned Stephen to death. Who was Saul at that time anyways? A young Zealous Jew, not like he was a High or Chief priest or a member of the Sanhdrin.

Scriptures has shown us clearly that the Sanhedrin condemned Stephen to death, but rather than looking at those scriptures, we leave them to play mind's games.

Sarassin:

How is it that Paul had such a burning Pharisaical zeal that he would have Christians condemned to death but the majority of Pharisees in actuality were quite friendly and tolerant towards Christians and mostly regarded them as an oddity?

Lolzzz, because Galamiel warned his fellow Jews to apply restrain in the treatment of the Christians didn't mean that majority of them were quite friendly to the brethren, there weren't at all.. Am yet to come by scriptures which attest to that fact. If there are, pls direct me there.
Now, When Jesus met Saul and there was a reversal, did Paul continue with that zeal or there was an attitudinal change in him? Shouldn't that tell you that a force was at work inside of Saul propelling him to be negatively zealous working for satan but believing he was serving YWHW?

Have you asked yourself why there was such a sudden change in the person of Paul immediately he encountered Christ?

Why do you think satan and his agents hates Paul so much?
Now, let me tell you why. Saul was a very viable instrument of destruction in the hands of satan. And he would have been used to wreck great havoc in the Christian fold, but he was delivered. He broke ranks and switched sides. He has never been forgiven by satan hence he stirs his agents up to hate Paul as well for escaping. We know these things.

Sarassin:

So you see my darling, as much as I adore you, I believe you and your scriptures are wrong, Paul was no Pharisee, and he could not have studied under Gamaliel, Gamaliel did not teach children. Why would the Saducee Chief Priest grant special dispensation to a Pharisee (The Saducees hated the Pharisees) to wander around arresting Christians if not that first and foremost Paul was a trusted Saducee and Herodian family member to boot?

Like i will keep saying, my darling, i stand with the Bible's account.

Besides, That phase of Saul or Paul's life passed, he got converted. He became a new creation, all things passes and he began a new life.

Besides, He suffered far more than what he made the Christians suffer. He worked for his Master Jesus. He was used much more than even the other Apostles. He ran his race to the end. He had a good testimony.

Why aren't we talking about that, instead of his past?
His past passed, YHWH forgave him. Saul didn't do half of what i did as a sinner, but i'm forgiven, that's what matters.

I want to talk about testimonies, not what happened before i met Christ.

If my Bible is wrong, then whatever is in store for those who believe it, will happen to me. For, i will believe it till the end. Forward ever, backward never. There's nothing to turn back too.

I WILL NEVER worship Satan IN ANY GUISE.

Sarassin:

@bolded is so true. There is no contemporary evidence whatsoever for the death of Stephen by stoning, this is why the story makes no sense to biblical scholars, there is no internal corroboration in the NT either, it is not attested by any other gospel writer.

Hahahahahahahaha. It is Well.
There has been no evidence of the death of Stephen by stoning but here you are demonizing Paul? Wow. The NT didn't corroborate it? Where then did we find this account?

I don't think i have time for this conspiracy.

Sarassin:

But we know that something did happen

How did you know that something happened and what happened?

Sarassin:

Historical accounts tell us that it was in fact James "brother of the Lord" and leader of the Jerusalem church NOT Stephen who was attacked by Paul's henchmen whilst preaching on the steps of the temple, he was badly injured and whisked to safety by his helpers to the caves at Qumran.

James was killed by King Herod, not by stoning.

Lolzzzzzzzz. Try harder my love, but even deep in you, you know the truth, for no one can lie to themselves.

Most importantly, Jesus is coming soon. When He comes we shall know everything clearly as God knows us.

Let the saints say, Come O Lord, Come.

Sarassin:


No one is arguing what you believe or disbelieve, we were referring to a period of at least twenty to twenty five years during which the NT gives no account of the life of Jesus, simples. Merry Christmas in advance dear.

Merry Chrimas dear.

Babacele:
you don't even know His real name ,birthplace and his works for about 3 decades and you are talking about conspiracy theory? Merry Xmas.

I don't even know whose real name and birth place?

Sarassin:


I expect you will go much further. Compliments of the season.

You mean olodo like me?


Thanks

Emmanystone:

I don't even know whose real name and birth place?

you know when I said Jesus was most educated and you ignorantly laughed it off , I knew I have to flow low with you. Yea Son of God ,He doesn't need any earthly education for God is the reservoir of all knowledge. Bravo ! He didn't even need to be taken away to Egypt from an Herod's wrath; suck Mary's milk ; nor give to Caesar what was Caesar's....so how could God have been educated?

Emmanystone:

I hope you realize that i'm a Christian and not a Pharisee in any way? Like i will keep saying, i will stand with what the Scriotures says in all of these matters not adding or subtracting, so, if Pauls says he was a Pharisee of the Pharisees, then He was the Pharisee of the Pharisees.amcos he was addressing his own people, the same pharisees who knew him, of whom he worked for until his conversion, they knew him. Who am i to say other wise?

You've arrived with your scattergun

I gave the reasons why Paul could not possibly be a "Pharisee of Pharisees", there's no need for me to repeat myself.

Emmanystone:

Do you realize Sir, that Paul was standing trial before the same Sanhedrin of whom Gamaliel was their head? Why was there no rebuttal in that regard when he stood before those who knew too well to make such a bold claim?

I hope someone reading will see what am seeing? Paul was standing trial, an accusations leveled against him were dire, and could end his life. As a matter if fact, by Law, he should be killed. Before these Court and elites, Paul will stand and lie against Gamaliel? lolzz.

Do you realise that Gamaliel died in 52CE? Paul was tried in 58CE. I hope someone reading will see that Gamaliel could not possibly have rebutted Paul's claim. Let us not forget Paul claimed Roman citizenship to try to evade trial.

Emmanystone:

Acts:22:3
I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

I may not be as intelligent as you are i think i would know the voice of the persona speaking in a text.

Going by the verse posted above, the persona's voice there is a personal pronoun 'I'. The persona didn't speak in the second or third person, but the first person. If you say Saul was lying there, he also must be lying about coming from Cilicia too.

I know you're quite intelligent and I am sure you realise that there's a difference between a "direct" quote and "paraphrasing" Paul did not write the Acts. The city of Paul's birth is not the subject of discussion here.

Emmanystone:


Acts:5:34-35
Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space;
And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men.
What is the connection between this and him being Paul's lecturer? At this point. Paul was still Saul. Gamaliel was a good and a wise man obviously.

I don't see the connection anyways.

Let me explain it to you. If Paul was still Saul at this time as you say and had not been taught by Gamaliel yet, then when exactly did Gamaliel teach Paul?

Emmanystone:

Hmmm. You are making it seem like the Jews left the Apostles alone afterwards because Gamaliel said so. Remember, he didn't actually ask them not to go on with their onslaughts, he just gave them a note of warning to apply restrain.
Wasn't Peter arrested again, wasn't James killed, wasn't Paul and Silas later arrested and kept in that same prison? What you talking about pls?
Paul said 'I' gave my consent to those who stoned Stephen and kept their clothes from being stolen.
Him giving his concent didn't mean that only his vote condemned Stephen to death. Who was Saul at that time anyways? A young Zealous Jew, not like he was a High or Chief priest or a member of the Sanhdrin.
Scriptures has shown us clearly that the Sanhedrin condemned Stephen to death, but rather than looking at those scriptures, we leave them to play mind's games.

There you go again conflating Peter and Stephen. In the example I gave I showed that Gamaliel pleaded for the life of Peter at the trial. I did not argue that other Christians were not killed. Your argument is all over the place.

Emmanystone:

Have you asked yourself why there was such a sudden change in the person of Paul immediately he encountered Christ?

Why do you think satan and his agents hates Paul so much?
Now, let me tell you why. Saul was a very viable instrument of destruction in the hands of satan. And he would have been used to wreck great havoc in the Christian fold, but he was delivered. He broke ranks and switched sides. He has never been forgiven by satan hence he stirs his agents up to hate Paul as well for escaping. We know these things.

This is not the subject of discussion snooozzzzzzzzze!

Emmanystone:


Like i will keep saying, my darling, i stand with the Bible's account.

Besides, That phase of Saul or Paul's life passed, he got converted. He became a new creation, all things passes and he began a new life.

Besides, He suffered far more than what he made the Christians suffer. He worked for his Master Jesus. He was used much more than even the other Apostles. He ran his race to the end. He had a good testimony.

Why aren't we talking about that, instead of his past?
His past passed, YHWH forgave him. Saul didn't do half of what i did as a sinner, but i'm forgiven, that's what matters.
I want to talk about testimonies, not what happened before i met Christ.

The OP's topic of discussion was the Stoning of Stephen. If you want to talk about testimonies you can open another thread, I'm sure others will join you there, better still see my thread on Paul here: https://www.nairaland.com/1834549/falsehoods-paul

Emmanystone:

James was killed by King Herod, not by stoning. Lolzzzzzzzz. Try harder my love, but even deep in you, you know the truth, for no one can lie to themselves. Most importantly, Jesus is coming soon. When He comes we shall know everything clearly as God knows us.
Let the saints say, Come O Lord, Come.

You should read what I wrote more carefully. I wrote that James was "attacked" on the steps of the temple, not killed.

Emmanystone:

Hahahahahahahaha. Jesus, had to go to school to be able to read. Lolzzz.

I am afraid the joke is on you my dear, only you do not know it!

To the soul which comes from heaven, birth is a death. No matter how sublime or rarefied the spirit is, once it is encased in flesh, it temporarily loses cognizance of all its past once engaged in corporal life, the development of its earthly consciousness is subject to the laws of the world in which it incarnates. It falls under the force of the elements. The higher its origin, the greater will be the effort to regain its dormant powers and to become conscious of its mission.

The greatest sacrifice Jesus made was not in giving his life …..that is the human perspective, his laying down of his life constituted a reconciliation with the Divine. The sacrifice was in consenting to “live” on this plane of existence. So yes, he would have had an education and why would he not?

Sarassin:
To the soul which comes from heaven, birth is a death. No matter how sublime or rarefied the spirit is, once it is encased in flesh, it temporarily loses cognizance of all its past once engaged in corporal life, the development of its earthly consciousness is subject to the laws of the world in which it incarnates. It falls under the force of the elements. The higher its origin, the greater will be the effort to regain its dormant powers and to become conscious of its mission.

The greatest sacrifice Jesus made was not in giving his life …..that is the human perspective, his laying down of his life constituted a reconciliation with the Divine. The sacrifice was in consenting to “live” on this plane of existence.

This here post is a marvel. Let me quote it for posterity.

Sarassin:
Jesus was a child consecrated before his birth to a prophetic mission, by the express wish of his mother. In the first instance Jesus would have received his early instruction, and first become acquainted with the Scriptures at instruction of his parents under the calm and serenity of Galilee.

Absolutely 110% correct

Sarassin:
We know at least that Jesus could read

Why leave out the fact, we know at least He could write as well too

Sarassin:
Interestingly the Gospels have maintained perfect silence regarding the doings of Jesus, previous to his meeting with John the Baptist, through whom, according to them, he took possession of his ministry but the debut of Jesus at the banks of the Jordan evidently took place after a long learning process this learning must have taken place in the only place in Israel, which, at that time, preserved the real traditions of the prophets and kept their ways of life

⁴¹Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover.
⁴²And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.

⁴⁹And He said to them,
"Why is it that you were seeking Me?
Did you not know that it behooves Me to be in the house of My Father?

⁵¹And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them:
but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.
⁵²And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man
- Luke 2:41-42, 49, 51-52

²³And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
- Luke 3:23

¹³At that time Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John.
¹⁴But John tried to prevent Him, saying,
“I need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?”
¹⁵“Let it be so now,” Jesus replied.
“It is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness in this way.”
Then John permitted Him.
- Matthew 3:13-15

¹⁴Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit,
and the news about Him spread throughout the surrounding region.
¹⁵He taught in their synagogues and was glorified by everyone.
¹⁶Then Jesus came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up.
As was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath. And when He stood up to read,
²⁰Then He rolled up the scroll, returned it to the attendant, and sat down.
The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fixed on Him,
²¹and He began by saying,
“Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”
22All spoke well of Him and marveled at the gracious words that came from His lips.
“Isn’t this the son of Joseph?” they asked.
- Luke 4:14-16, 20-22

¹²When Jesus heard that John had been imprisoned, He withdrew to Galilee.
¹³Leaving Nazareth, He went and lived in Capernaum, which is by the sea in the region of Zebulun and Naphtali,
¹⁴to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:
¹⁷From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.”
- Matthew 4:12-14, 17

¹Jesus went out from there and came into His hometown; and His disciples followed Him.
²When the Sabbath came, He ,began to teach in the synagogue,;
and the many listeners were astonished, saying,,
“Where did this man get these things,, and what is this wisdom given to Him,
and such miracles as these performed by His hands?
- Mark 6:1-2

The Gospels, as seen above, contrary to your opinion,
have NOT maintained perfect silence regarding the doings of Jesus, previous to his meeting with John the Baptist, through whom, according to them, he took possession of his ministry

His learning took place in only one place in Israel, and that is, Nazareth.
Jesus Christ, from age 12-30, was at home with His parents in Nazareth.

The debut of Jesus at the banks of the Jordan evidently took place after a 30 years long waiting process.
David was 30 years old when he began to reign
Joseph was 30 years old when he began serving Pharaoh king of Egypt
At age 30, Jesus, left home to be baptised by John the Baptist, His cousin.
and thereafter officially began the work of God

Sarassin:
We know that his mother Mary had links with the Essene Order, and that Joseph the father who was out of the picture much earlier was of the Pharisee class. At the time of Jesus the Order of the Essenes were the last remnants of the prophetic brotherhood set up by Samuel. They took refuge in silence and solitude simply preserving their traditions. They had two principal centres, one in Egypt and the other in Palestine, at Engaddi, near the Dead Sea.

The Essene Order accepted the children of the poor and gave them food, shelter and an education.
Right there at Engaddi cut off from the immediate surrounds of Nazareth for many years,
together with other children of the poor who were later to become his trusted disciples

Haba!
Adding fictitious and colourful exaggerated details to your story version of Jesus' life is poetic licence to thrill misuse
To err is human,
but this emboldened error above is just too shockingly monumental

Was Simon, the Zealot, among the trusted disciples Essene Order graduates too?

Sarassin:
this is where Jesus would have received the spiritual indoctrination preserved through a select band of prophets from Samuel to Elijah, Elisha and Ezekiel taught by the Essenes.

The evidence that Jesus was educated by the Order of the Essene’s is profuse.

Sarassin, commendably, in your lively, interesting and healthy conversations with Emmanystone, you tried spilling the beans.
but contrary to your opinion, Jesus Christ was never taught by the Essenes nor received training from any Order of Essenes

Jesus was a whizz-kid,
Remember, that, as early as when He was age 12, people already, were taken aback by His knowledge and wisdom
All who heard the 12 year old Jesus, in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions
were amazed at His understanding and His answers.

Jesus knew the Essenes, He made use of their facilities alright
but He was at no time under any Essenes' tutelage

Sarassin:
Upon acceptance which was usually after a One year induction members were made to swear “terrible oaths” to observe the rules of the Order and to betray none of its secrets

³³Again, you have heard that it was said to the ancients, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but you shall keep your oaths to the Lord.’
³⁴But I say to you not to swear at all: neither by heaven, because it is the throne of God;
³⁵nor by the earth, because it is the footstool of His feet; nor by Jerusalem, because it is the city of the great King.
³⁶Neither shall you swear by your head, because you are not able to make one hair white or black.
³⁷But let your statement ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and ‘No,’ ‘No.’ Anything more than these comes from evil.
- Matthew 5:33-37

That's Jesus at Matthew 5:34 speaking
Now do you want to retract?

Sarassin:
The very silence kept by Jesus and his disciples about the Essenes speaks volumes

If you had searched the bible low and high enough first, you would have found what Jesus thought of them or scored them in areas of savviness and streetwise

Well, it didnt stop Jesus sending his disciples to one of them,
towards wanting to make use of the guestchamber facility

Sarassin:
Why does he who attacks with unparalleled courage all the religious sects of his day, never mention the Essenes?

The Essenes never got within an earshot of a proper mention
because unlike the hypocritical arrogant and oppressive Pharisees, the political clout Sadducees and the wealthy elite Scribes,
they kept under the radar with an admirable low profile lifestyle

Sarassin:
And why do the apostles never even refer to them?

The Apostles never even referred to Essenes
in the manner they or Jesus did with the Pharisees, Sadducees and the Scribes,
because the Essenes, never had beef with, never gave beef to the Apostles or Jesus Christ

Sarassin:
Evidently because they considered the Essenes as part of themselves.

No, not necessarily because they considered the Essenes as part of themselves
It is because it's always the Pharisees, Sadducees and the Scribes, spying, setting traps, locking horns and having face off with them

MuttleyLaff:


The Gospels, as seen above, contrary to your opinion,
have NOT maintained perfect silence regarding the doings of Jesus, previous to his meeting with John the Baptist, through whom, according to them, he took possession of his ministry

His learning took place in only one place in Israel, and that is, Nazareth.
Jesus Christ, from age 12-30, was at home with His parents in Nazareth.

This is roughly the period that concerns us. The idea that a Jewish Adult Man (the rite of Mitzveh took place at the age of 13) would sit in his mother’s house for 18 years doing nothing is ludicrous as it is improbable. He was either out working or he was being schooled, sitting at home suckling on his mother was not an option for a young Jewish male, not in the real world.

MuttleyLaff:


David was 30 years old when he began to reign
Joseph was 30 years old when he began serving Pharaoh king of Egypt At age 30, Jesus, left home to be baptised by John the Baptist, His cousin and thereafter officially began the work of God

And so what? how does this explain the curious silence of the intervening years?

MuttleyLaff:

Haba!
Adding fictitious and colourful exaggerated details to your story version of Jesus' life is poetic licence to thrill misuse
To err is human,
but this emboldened error above is just too shockingly monumental

Was Simon, the Zealot, among the trusted disciples Essene Order graduates too?

And why does it sound improbable to you that Jesus would make life-long fellows his disciples? What is "shockingly monumental" is quoting the line “ I will make you fishers of men” a statement so vile in the context of its time that no-one, least of all Jesus would use it to entreat a man to enjoin him in any viable endeavour.

MuttleyLaff:

Sarassin, commendably, in your lively, interesting and healthy conversations with Emmanystone, you tried spilling the beans.
but contrary to your opinion, Jesus Christ was never taught by the Essenes nor received training from any Order of Essenes

Jesus was a whizz-kid,
Remember, that, as early as when He was age 12, people already, were taken aback by His knowledge and wisdom
All who heard the 12 year old Jesus, in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions
were amazed at His understanding and His answers.

If you say Jesus was a whizz-kid, doesn’t that reflect what I wrote earlier that he was well educated by the Essene's?

Commendably you accept that Jesus knew the Essene’s and that “he used their facilities” you then threw it all away by adding the dissembler “but was at no time under their tutelage”, so what was he doing there, logging on to their computers? You baulk at accepting that Jesus was taught by the Essene's, why? Hopefully not for the same dogmatic reasons my dear Emmanystone is trying to impute.

Every contemporary and secular account of the Essene teachings methods and their way of life handed to us by the likes of Josephus and even Philo Judaeus confirm to us that virtually all of Jesus’ teachings and practices were Essenic in nature, the Essene’s taught esoteric healing methods, they preached compassion, tolerance, forbearance they taught communality, they were well versed in scriptures, you knnow this as well as I do, so what was Jesus doing there if not learning those things?

MuttleyLaff:

That's Jesus at Matthew 5:34 speaking. Now do you want to retract?

Retract what exactly? Jesus studied under the Essene’s, even you admit that “he used their facilities” if he studied under them, he took an oath, there’s nothing more to add.

MuttleyLaff:

If you had searched the bible low and high enough first, you would have found what Jesus thought of them or scored them in areas of savviness and streetwise

Well, it didnt stop Jesus sending his disciples to one of them, towards wanting to make use of the guestchamber facility

I admit I may not have looked hard enough. Perhaps you can provide chapter and verse.

MuttleyLaff:

The Essenes never got within an earshot of a proper mention
because unlike the hypocritical arrogant and oppressive Pharisees, the political clout Sadducees and the wealthy elite Scribes,
they kept under the radar with an admirable low profile lifestyle

Have you ever wondered why there is not even a mention of Jesus in any of the Pre- 4th Century Gnostic writings i.e, the Qumran cave scrolls? Why is it that Philo Judaeus who resided with the Essene's for a short period of time never once mentions Jesus in any of his treatises, why is it that Josephus who also lived with the Essene's for a while would record what Caesar had for breakfast but left only a spurious mention or allusion to Jesus?

The Essene's kept their part of the bargain as did Jesus.

MuttleyLaff:


The Apostles never even referred to Essenes in the manner they or Jesus did with the Pharisees, Sadducees and the Scribes,
because the Essenes, never had beef with, never gave beef to the Apostles or Jesus Christ

Indeed you make my point for me. Merry Christmas my friend.

Sarassin:
This is roughly the period that concerns us.
The idea that a Jewish Adult Man (the rite of Mitzveh took place at the age of 13) would sit in his mother’s house for 18 years doing nothing is ludicrous as it is improbable

Where, here on this thread or in the scripture, did you read He sat in his mother’s house for 18 years doing nothing?

Sarassin:
He was either out working or he was being schooled

Luke 2:41-42, 49, 51-52, Luke 3:23, Matthew 3:13-15, Luke 4:14-16, 20-22, Matthew 4:12-14, 17 and Mark 6:1-2 showed Him both working and home schooled

Those verses showed that Jesus was at home, show where Jesus was before the time of His public appearance
They showed that Jesus was home schooled unlike John the Baptist, His cousin,
whose formative years was spent in the desert until the time of his public appearance

Sarassin:
sitting at home suckling on his mother was not an option for a young Jewish male, not in the real world

And the child grew, and was weaned:
and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned
- Genesis 21:8

And when she had weaned him,
she took him up with her, with three bullocks, and one ephah of flour, and a bottle of wine,
and brought him unto the house of the LORD in Shiloh: and the child was young.
- 1 Samuel 1:24

This is absurd to suggest, even if its good-natured banter, that a strapping fine specimen of a man was at home suckling on his mother

Sarassin:
And so what?
how does this explain the curious silence of the intervening years?

Luke 2:41-42, 49, 51-52, Luke 3:23, Matthew 3:13-15, Luke 4:14-16, 20-22, Matthew 4:12-14, 17 and Mark 6:1-2 explained the whereabouts of Jesus
Those verses showed that Jesus was at home, show where Jesus was before the time of His public appearance
They showed that Jesus was home schooled unlike John the Baptist, His cousin,
whose formative years was spent in the desert until the time of his public appearance

Sarassin:
And why does it sound improbable to you that Jesus would make life-long fellows his disciples?

Why not give two, three or four names of such children of the poor, there at Engaddi, whom you've alleged were later to become his trusted disciples

Sarassin:
What is "shockingly monumental" is quoting the line “I will make you fishers of men”
a statement so vile in the context of its time
that no-one, least of all Jesus would use it to entreat a man to enjoin him in any viable endeavour.

I have the good sense not to jump to conclusion here
Please explain yourself here, because I dont seem to follow or understand.
Are you saying "I will make you fishers of men” is a derogatory or extremely unpleasant remark to make?

Sarassin:
If you say Jesus was a whizz-kid, doesn’t that reflect what I wrote earlier that he was well educated by the Essene's?

It doesnt because you arent exactly accurate with saying he was well educated by the "Essenes"

Sarassin:
Commendably you accept that Jesus knew the Essene’s and that “he used their facilities”
you then threw it all away by adding the dissembler “but was at no time under their tutelage”

Yes, Jesus knew the Essenes.
Yes, Jesus used their facility for the Passover meal
and yes, I rightly threw away your boldly concocted account of events

Sarassin:
so what was he doing there, logging on to their computers?

I tried holding a straight face and read this remark without laughing but failed
Bwahahaha. You got jokes, you got jokes mayne kikiki ki

Sarassin:
You baulk at accepting that Jesus was taught by the Essene's, why?

Why?
One knows straight away, what is true and what is false
I couldnt take to bank, this opinion of Jesus being educated at Qumran
and so trust, you will appreciate that, old bulls or cows, learned to eat straw and spit out fiddlesticks

Sarassin:
Hopefully not for the same dogmatic reasons my dear Emmanystone is trying to impute

Why?
Well, not for dogmatic reasons but because I've become quite blase to "Jesus was taught by the Essenes'" unbalanced and preconceived opinions

Sarassin:
Every contemporary and secular account of the Essene teachings methods
and their way of life handed to us by the likes of Josephus
and even Philo Judaeus confirm to us that virtually all of Jesus’ teachings and practices were Essenic in nature,
the Essene’s taught esoteric healing methods, they preached compassion, tolerance, forbearance they taught communality,
they were well versed in scriptures, you knnow this as well as I do, so what was Jesus doing there if not learning those things?

You know, as well as I do, that Jesus denounced the Essene teachings and practices

Why you chose to remain silent on Jesus' divergent and disagreeable views on the Essene teachings beats me
There are well versed incidents in scriptures of Jesus and Paul
attacking the dogmatism, the extremism and the fanaticism of the Essenes, so why are you tight-lipped on those?

Sarassin:
Retract what exactly? Jesus studied under the Essene’s,
even you admit that “he used their facilities”
if he studied under them, he took an oath, there’s nothing more to add

If I were to use facilities in a mosque, would that make me a muslim?

Matthew 5:33-37 and Jesus at Matthew 5:34 speaking is evident Jesus doesnt endorse oaths, talkless taking part in swearing terrible oaths
I am pleased you've toned it down from "members were made to swear “terrible oaths”"
into "he took an oath"
So its no more terrible oath then?
It's progress somewhat anyway, as you've demoted it to a lesser of two evils

Sarassin:
I admit I may not have looked hard enough. Perhaps you can provide chapter and verse.

⁷Now the Festival of Unleavened Bread arrived, when the Passover lamb is sacrificed.
⁸Jesus sent Peter and John ahead and said, “Go and prepare the Passover meal, so we can eat it together.”
⁹“Where do you want us to prepare it?” they asked him.
¹⁰He replied, “As soon as you enter Jerusalem, a man carrying a pitcher of water will meet you.
Follow him. At the house he enters,
¹¹say to the owner, ‘The Teacher asks: Where is the guest room where I can eat the Passover meal with my disciples?’
¹²He will take you upstairs to a large room that is already set up. That is where you should prepare our meal.”
¹³They went off to the city and found everything just as Jesus had said, and they prepared the Passover meal there.
- Luke 22:7-13

¹²On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover lamb was to be sacrificed, Jesus’ disciples asked Him, “Where do You want us to prepare for You to eat the Passover?”
¹³So He sent two of His disciples and told them,
“Go into the city, and a man carrying a pitcher of water will meet you. Follow him,
¹⁴and whichever house he enters, say to the owner,
‘The Teacher asks: Where is My guest room, where I may eat the Passover with My disciples?’…
- Mark 14:12-14

I'll gladly do the donkey hard work for you
It's an Essene carrying the pitcher of water
and only an Essene will have a spare guest room facility available in Jerusalem, at that period of the year

Sarassin:
Have you ever wondered why there is not even a mention of Jesus in any of the Pre- 4th Century Gnostic writings i.e, the Qumran cave scrolls?
Why is it that Philo Judaeus who resided with the Essene's for a short period of time never once mentions Jesus in any of his treatises

"even Philo Judaeus confirm to us that virtually all of Jesus’ teachings and practices were Essenic in nature"
- © Sarassin

Seems you've forgotten, you earlier wrote:
"Philo Judaeus confirm to us that virtually all of Jesus’ teachings and practices were Essenic in nature"
and now you've contradicted yourself with later saying:
"Philo Judaeus who resided with the Essene's for a short period of time never once mentions Jesus in any of his treatises"

Oopsy daisy, was that a freudian slip, bwahahahaa

Sarassin:
why is it that Josephus who also lived with the Essene's for a while would record what Caesar had for breakfast
but left only a spurious mention or allusion to Jesus?

Have you ever wondered that maybe it is because of the simple fact, that Jesus was not an Qumran Essene,
and so, is why the Pre- 4th Century Gnostic writings (i.e. the Qumran cave scrolls) have no mention of Jesus
also why Philo, and Josephus never associated Jesus with the Qumran Essene?

Sarassin:
The Essene's kept their part of the bargain as did Jesus

Did the Zealots too keep their part of this fictitious bargain too?

Sarassin:
Indeed you make my point for me

I clearly recall that the point you are and were pushing
was that Jesus and the Apostles worked in collusion with each other to keep silent about the Essenes

I have shown this isnt the case, so dont agree with you that I have made your point for you

Sarassin:
Merry Christmas my friend.

Happy festive+end of the year time-out amigo

MuttleyLaff:
Where, here on this thread or in the scripture, did you read He sat in his mother’s house for 18 years doing nothing?

This is what you imply when you state that Jesus was at home for circa 18 years. We agree that his mother would have taught him the basics, but who taught the fine strapping young lad to read and interpret scripture? his mother? or the barely literate carpenter that was Joseph?

MuttleyLaff:

Luke 2:41-42, 49, 51-52, Luke 3:23, Matthew 3:13-15, Luke 4:14-16, 20-22, Matthew 4:12-14, 17 and Mark 6:1-2 showed Him both working and home schooled
Those verses showed that Jesus was at home, show where Jesus was before the time of His public appearance
They showed that Jesus was home schooled unlike John the Baptist, His cousin,
whose formative years was spent in the desert until the time of his public appearance

Those disparate verses taken of yours cobbled together out of context show no such thing. Who exactly did this much touted home-schooling?

I will pick one of those verses at random, Luke 21: 41-42, we know that every year Jewish adults headed into Jerusalem to perform the rites at the temple, nothing spectacular here, we see Jesus accompanies his parents on that particular occasion, the significance here is the age 12, the age at which Jesus under Jewish custom would be considered a “Man” at the time, It is not the mother that turns the boy into a Man, Jesus would have been sent away to the Rabbi's at a much earlier age from say 5 to be educated by the Essene’s, he would attend a Mitzveh, a rite of passage that entailed copious amounts of learning at an earlier age there was nothing unusual about this in the context of the times, Jesus’ parents were poor. We Know Mary was affiliated to the Essene’s, we know this from the various narrative accounts of Mary not included in the canons.

Jesus turning up at the temple as a precocious young man debating and astounding the old grey-beards is little more than pious stories for the faithful. None of those verses demonstrates that Jesus spent the best part of two decades sitting at home. If he were indeed gainfully employed in the long term then we would have contemporary accounts.

MuttleyLaff:

This is absurd to suggest, even if its good-natured banter, that a strapping fine specimen of a man was at home suckling on his mother

It was just a figure of speech, apologies if it rankles.

MuttleyLaff:

Why not give two, three or four names of such children of the poor, there at Engaddi, whom you've alleged were later to become his trusted disciples

Let me put it this way, where would Jesus find trusted lieutenants in whose hands he would place his ministry and also his life? On the banks of the Sea of Galilee? I don’t think so.

MuttleyLaff:

I have the good sense not to jump to conclusion here
Please explain yourself here, because I dont seem to follow or understand.
Are you saying "I will make you fishers of men” is a derogatory or extremely unpleasant remark to make?

Thanks for not jumping to conclusions, I have clarified what I meant on the other thread.

MuttleyLaff:

Yes, Jesus knew the Essenes.
Yes, Jesus used their facility for the Passover meal
and yes, I rightly threw away your boldly concocted account of events

Knew them, how? They kept mostly to themselves. If you say Jesus knew them and had disagreeable and divergent views to those of the Essene’s why then according to you would Jesus use their facilities for the Passover?

MuttleyLaff:

One knows straight away, what is true and what is false I couldnt take to bank, this opinion of Jesus being educated at Qumran
and so trust, you will appreciate that, old bulls or cows, learned to eat straw and spit out fiddlesticks

Fine then explain to us exactly where Jesus was educated and what education he received, we know he did not receive Pharisaical training as the loquacious Paul claimed for himself, we know too that Jesus was not a Saduccee and that leaves only the third major branch of Judaism open which was the Essene's. His mother would not have been able to school him beyond the basics, Joseph was out of the picture at least by the time Jesus turned 12 and their visit to the temple and in any event he was a carpenter. Methinks you're chewing cud.

MuttleyLaff:

You know, as well as I do, that Jesus denounced the Essene teachings and practices

Why you chose to remain silent on Jesus' divergent and disagreeable views on the Essene teachings beats me
There are well versed incidents in scriptures of Jesus and Paul
attacking the dogmatism, the extremism and the fanaticism of the Essenes, so why are you tight-lipped on those?

Very clever, I see you have carefully merged the views of Jesus with Paul in referencing the so-called dogmatism and fanaticism of the Essene's. Let us not open up the can of worms that is Paul’s persecution of the early Jewish followers of the message of Jesus and their near annihilation by orthodoxy all in the name of Christ.

MuttleyLaff:

If I were to use facilities in a mosque, would that make me a muslim?

The Essene’s were not running a 'Pay-as-you go' business center.

MuttleyLaff:

I'll gladly do the donkey hard work for you. It's an Essene carrying the pitcher of water
and only an Essene will have a spare guest room facility available in Jerusalem, at that period of the year

Thank you for that. As you have just shown, Jesus agreeably shared the home of an Essene Jew for the Passover, yet you also say that Jesus found their views disagreeable….so was Jesus being hypocritical here?

MuttleyLaff:


"even Philo Judaeus confirm to us that virtually all of Jesus’ teachings and practices were Essenic in nature"
- © Sarassin

Seems you've forgotten, you earlier wrote:
"Philo Judaeus confirm to us that virtually all of Jesus’ teachings and practices were Essenic in nature"
and now you've contradicted yourself with later saying:
"Philo Judaeus who resided with the Essene's for a short period of time never once mentions Jesus in any of his treatises"

Oopsy daisy, was that a freudian slip, bwahahahaa

The contradiction exists only in your mind. Philo lived with the Essene’s for a period of time he gave us an account of their general practices, norms and customs in glowing terms without revealing exact minutiae of their teachings. If as it is to be expected, Philo took the obligatory oath then it is rather unsurprising that he would fail to mention Jesus. Ditto for Josephus.

MuttleyLaff:

Have you ever wondered that maybe it is because of the simple fact, that Jesus was not an Qumran Essene,
and so, is why the Pre- 4th Century Gnostic writings (i.e. the Qumran cave scrolls) have no mention of Jesus
also why Philo, and Josephus never associated Jesus with the Qumran Essene?

There's no need to wonder, it would be precisely because Jesus had been taught by the Essene's that they would fail to mention him, it could also explain why Philo, a Royal courtier to Herod and a witness to events during the life of Jesus does not say a word about him.

OLAADEGBU:


"The stoning of Stephen - Why were the Jews allowed to stone Stephen but had to go through Pilate to kill Jesus?"

When Jesus was tried, Jewish religious leaders went through the Roman governor, Pilate, since they had no legal right to inflict capital punishment. When Pilate told the Jews to try Jesus according to Jewish law, they responded, "We have no right to execute anyone" (John 18:31). Later, however, a mob led by those same leaders stoned Stephen to death in Jerusalem (Acts 7:58). This seems to present a conundrum: if the religious leaders were not allowed to inflict the death penalty, why did they execute Stephen? Or, if they could administer capital punishment, why did they involve Pilate with Jesus' death?

https://www.gotquestions.org/stoning-of-Stephen.html

OLAADEGBU:


When Jesus was tried, Jewish religious leaders went through the Roman governor, Pilate, since they had no legal right to inflict capital punishment. When Pilate told the Jews to try Jesus according to Jewish law, they responded, "We have no right to execute anyone" (John 18:31). Later, however, a mob led by those same leaders stoned Stephen to death in Jerusalem (Acts 7:58). This seems to present a conundrum: if the religious leaders were not allowed to inflict the death penalty, why did they execute Stephen? Or, if they could administer capital punishment, why did they involve Pilate with Jesus' death?

https://www.gotquestions.org/stoning-of-Stephen.html

The leprechaun returns. There is no conundrum, as you well know, the rights of Jewish leaders to execute anyone had been abrogated by the Romans. If we play along with the NT accounts then the murder of Stephen amounts to an extra-judicial killing, a mob action instigated by Paul.
This mea culpa by Paul whereby he admits to being present at the stoning of Stephen when he is in fact the prime orchestrator of things is rather interesting. Paul is nothing if not very clever, he seemingly admits to a lesser “crime” conveniently masking true events which were that it was James the brother of the Lord who was attacked on the temple steps by Paul and his henchmen in a bid to cut-off the Jerusalem church from its head.

Sarassin:


The leprechaun returns. There is no conundrum, as you well know, the rights of Jewish leaders to execute anyone had been abrogated by the Romans. If we play along with the NT accounts then the murder of Stephen amounts to an extra-judicial killing, a mob action instigated by Paul.
This mea culpa by Paul whereby he admits to being present at the stoning of Stephen when he is in fact the prime orchestrator of things is rather interesting. Paul is nothing if not very clever, he seemingly admits to a lesser “crime” conveniently masking true events which were that it was James the brother of the Lord who was attacked on the temple steps by Paul and his henchmen in a bid to cut-off the Jerusalem church from its head.

Read the suggested link for better understanding and see that it's not about Paul but the Sanhedrin. Merry belated Christmas!

OLAADEGBU:


Read the suggested link for better understanding and see that it's not about Paul but the Sanhedrin. Merry belated Christmas!

Merry belated Christmas to you too sir and my best wishes to you for a Prosperous New Year.

Now, why would I read your spurious link? Did the Sanhedrin pass a sentence of death by stoning against Stephen? No. I can assure you it is always about Paul. The very idea that the learned judges in the Sanhedrin would gather their robes and pick up stones to murder someone in a fit of blind rage only shows how blinkered and biased the views of the NT writers were.

Quite apart from the fact that virtually half of the Sanhedrin would vote to spare the life of Peter, that half being the Pharisee group.
It was an extra judicial killing pure and simple

Sarassin:


Merry belated Christmas to you too sir and my best wishes to you for a Prosperous New Year.

Now, why would I read your spurious link? Did the Sanhedrin pass a sentence of death by stoning against Stephen? No. I can assure you it is always about Paul. The very idea that the learned judges in the Sanhedrin would gather their robes and pick up stones to murder someone in a fit of blind rage only shows how blinkered and biased the views of the NT writers were.

Quite apart from the fact that virtually half of the Sanhedrin would vote to spare the life of Peter, that half being the Pharisee group.
It was an extra judicial killing pure and simple

Paul was not the leader of the Sanhedrin, he was only a willing participant taking orders from the Jewish leaders. He actually believed that he was doing God a favour just as the Muslims today think.

Steven was murdered by the mob who were enraged by what they considered to be blasphemous when he said that he saw Jesus standing at the right side of God waiting to welcome him home. It had nothing to do with the writers either as they just reported what they saw and was reminded by the Holy Spirit who is the author of the Scriptures.