₦airaland Forum

Ladyhippolyta88:
Well that Saudi crown prince might be the one leading the reformation of Islam even in Iran the women are protesting against the veil law claiming it is a choice,In Tunisia president Beji Caid Essebsi is reforming Tunisia,Same can be said of Jordan and Turkey even if Erdogan is not 100%trust worthy.Qatar and UAE seem to be more moderate.

Martinez19:
you wan marry

maryjames9:
China is the smartest country in the world. Religion is the bane of the society. Christianity has lots of issues (brainwashing, sectional ism, monetization of the religion by Pastorpreneurs and lots more. Islam is worse ( terrorism,killing o infidels in the name of god, war,... I stand with abolishing and facing out of Religion from earth because it is a threat to human existence. The notion of reality of fiction of heaven or hell has not and will not solve the world problem.

dalaman:
Liberal leftist in Europe and worse that Islamic Fundmentalist in their stupidity. They always refuse to tackle Islam head on. They feel Islam is sone distant problem when Islam and it's problem is knocking on their door right in front of them. They keep treating muslims with kid gloves all in the name of political correctness. They don't know that Islam is a virus that needs to be killed and quarantined immediately.

I like the Americans because they have the conservatives / Republicans that will NEVE allow Islam and breeding space in their country. The Europeans and toying with something that will consume them, they don't know.

Muslims need to be treated the way they treat others in their own countries period. Europeans need to treat muslim migrants the same way muslims treat non muslims in Muslim majority countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Indonesia, Egypt, Yemen, Iraq etc.

Europeans should NOT tolerate muslims and their madness. Muslims will leave their usless war ravaged lands, come into Europe and be brandishing swords shouting that Islam will take over Europe someday. What utter madness and the foolish Europeans will be looking at them instead of kicking them out immediately.

tartar9:
Also,atheists need to be treated the same way north Korea and other atheists nations treat non-atheists.period!

Martinez19:
it's not a matter of how well the actions mirror each other, it's the basis of the specific action. Is the basis reasonable?

Martinez19:
it doesn't change the fact that Islam ought not to be in a civilised society and that it's doctrine are evil. You clearly didn't read my write very well and you are not well informed on things happening in Europe or North America. The skillful Muslims want sharia too just like all Muslims. Do you know how Spain came under an Islamic caliphate? Peacefully or by the sword? Don't spoil my Sunday please.

dalaman:
Liberal leftist in Europe are worse than Islamic Fundmentalist in their stupidity. They always refuse to tackle Islam head on. They feel Islam is some distant problem when Islam and it's problem is knocking on their door right in front of them. They keep treating muslims with kid gloves all in the name of political correctness. They don't know that Islam is a virus that needs to be killed and quarantined immediately.

I like the Americans because they have the conservatives / Republicans that will NEVE allow Islam and breeding space in their country. The Europeans and toying with something that will consume them, they don't know.

Muslims need to be treated the way they treat others in their own countries period. Europeans need to treat muslim migrants the same way muslims treat non muslims in Muslim majority countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Indonesia, Egypt, Yemen, Iraq etc.

Europeans should NOT tolerate muslims and their madness. Muslims will leave their usless war ravaged lands, come into Europe and be brandishing swords shouting that Islam will take over Europe someday. What utter madness and the foolish Europeans will be looking at them instead of kicking them out immediately.

Ladyhippolyta88:
No I am not an atheists.I prefer being an agnostic theist.

vaxx:
this is not fact, it is fallacy. stop conflating Islam the ideology and Muslim the identity.

livebullet:
I dey fear u... You are too exposed to knowledge that generally is exclusive to the male folk...

Martinez19:
Islam is based on the quran which doctrines are evil. A Muslim is someone who follows and abides by the teachings and doctrines of the quran. Please don't try to detach the identity as if it has no connect on bearing from the ideology. As long as Islam is in existence, there will always be radicals. The moderates are hypocrites that do not take the quran fully and seriously meanwhile they advocate the quran. So you see hypocritical Muslims called moderates and radicals are dangerous. Finally, never try to separate the identity and ideology as if they have no deep connection with each other. The ideology is evil and the identity is for those who choose to abide by it.

vaxx:
you are now descending into bigotry against those honest Muslim out there. this is dehumanization. you already conclude Islam is entirely evil which is not true. countries such as Qatar , UAE and Oman are proving you wrong. these are countries founded on Islamic ideology but liberal as a people.

it is like saying Nigeria is a corrupt country, does it also mean every person who hold NIGERIA identity is also corrupt? to me , you are the hypocrite here for confirming and concluding all Islam doctrines are evil. i am sure you have never study Islam beyond the news.

Martinez19:
I care about what's true and what's good. Please read my posts and stop giving me headache. I have pointed out the hypocrisy and unseriousness of moderates in my posts. If we are to be serious, liberal principles and Islam are like oil and water. Those countries aren't liberal. Do your findings, follow the news, check if modrates condemn terrorists group and read my posts.

Using identity as a Nigerian is different and not analogous to identity as a Muslim. The Nigerian constitution is not corrupt and evil and Nigerians, who live in Nigeria, abiding by it can't be considered evil for doing so. When Nigerians live their country, they are to abide peacefully with the constitution of the country that they are foreigners in. The doctrines of Islam are evil and to be called a Muslim, you must abide by these doctrines no matter where you find yourself. Please think deeply about this.

hopefulLandlord:
vaxx, I see you arguing for the clear differentiation while Martinez19 disagrees

I feel both of you are saying the same thing from a different perspective although (TBF) I just glanced pasts your various posts here

I do agree with both your viewpoints but I'd like to add as someone who's witnessed the worst and (probably)the best Muslims have to offer; I'm of the opinion that the best way to judge a religion - if there's any such way - are by the actions of its extremists especially if the extremists are more vocal

I say by its extremist as in literalist, someone who takes the book straight as it is not someone who pulls "interpretations"

A Christian extremist/literalist would probably be a "doormat" who takes slaves and protests against abortion

A Muslim extremist would probably try to kill anyone who doesn't share his idea of god/religion

This is where it gets interesting, A Christian extremist would most likely act the same way whether they're in the minority or majority BUT for the Muslim extremist, they play a cunning game of getting into foreign lands give appearance of being a moderate, give birth to children, try to get as many extremists as he can into the country he's in till they have good numbers and then shit starts hitting the fan; they start fighting for "minority rights" they want a say in governance, they act peacefully and the true citizen start arguing for them, after all they've been of good cheer so far until they become the "Majority" and suddenly nobody has any right, the extremist part of them then start showing and by then it would've been too late

hopefulLandlord:
vaxx, I see you arguing for the clear differentiation while Martinez19 disagrees

I feel both of you are saying the same thing from a different perspective although (TBF) I just glanced pasts your various posts here

I do agree with both your viewpoints but I'd like to add as someone who's witnessed the worst and (probably)the best Muslims have to offer; I'm of the opinion that the best way to judge a religion - if there's any such way - are by the actions of its extremists especially if the extremists are more vocal

I say by its extremist as in literalist, someone who takes the book straight as it is not someone who pulls "interpretations"

A Christian extremist/literalist would probably be a "doormat" who takes slaves and protests against abortion

A Muslim extremist would probably try to kill anyone who doesn't share his idea of god/religion

This is where it gets interesting, A Christian extremist would most likely act the same way whether they're in the minority or majority BUT for the Muslim extremist, they play a cunning game of getting into foreign lands give appearance of being a moderate, give birth to children, try to get as many extremists as he can into the country he's in till they have good numbers and then shit starts hitting the fan; they start fighting for "minority rights" they want a say in governance, they act peacefully and the true citizen start arguing for them, after all they've been of good cheer so far until they become the "Majority" and suddenly nobody has any right, the extremist part of them then start showing and by then it would've been too late

I'll stop here for now and I hope I haven't veered badly off course

vaxx:
if you have honestly take your time to read my post, you will have seen where i advocate for reformation. what Islam needs its reformation. either extremist or liberal, we are human being that are subjected to changes. it is the ideology be it liberal or fundamentalist. in fact, i will argue that foreign policy sometime contribute to this menace by giving the fundamentalist a sense of pride to hold on to this ideology. for example the United States was hailing the Afghan militant as heroes for fighting against the Soviets.That was a good thing for America in then because it favor them. do you know Bin Laden was among these fighters? and himself was a recipient of US funding and training. but fortunately it went against them. In Islam the divinity and infallibility of the Quran is the only thing that every sect and denomination agrees on be it liberal or extremist. there may be difference in interpretation.. but it is acceptable that God himself wrote every letter, every punctuation mark. it is infallible.let me give you a joke...you can not touch the quran unless you have perform ablution or if you are doing mensuration (woman). this idea of infallibility should be reformed. just like most of the Christians and the Jews agree that their religious book is divinely inspired and not purely divine . there should be a way to be constructive and honest while dealing with this approach and not passing unpleasant remark on to a fellow human like you. it is dehumanizing. just the way some people have a different view on atheism. i believe every one has the right to freedom of thought and believe .

hopefulLandlord:
I did say I only glanced through the posts though so forgive me if I missed some important parts due to being caught up in other things

I do agree with most of your points but the question remains, how do you "reform"? how do you convince the Muslims to take a Reformation of the final message of the creator of the universe who's adherents think their eternal salvation actually depends on how literal they take it?

Islam is so against Reformation that I see impossibility in trying to reform it; Christianity is a different kind of belief as they have a Messiah who preached that they should be a doormat and Christianity comes from the name of that Messiah, This made it easy for them to change much more easily with time; Judaism went through a long Reformation and cherry picked their way into it

But for islam, I honestly don't see this happening with Muslims killing Muslims for not being true Muslims let alone other faith and the fact that their holy book actually encourages the killing Muslims when read literally than the killed

educate me(us) on how Reformation of islam should go

vaxx:
if jews can be reformed, what is stoping islam. Jews use to be like islam before. What is going to be change is how the muslim think and not how islam is spell in the literature. If the Muslim are reformed, Islam will be reformed. We are human being, so we can always progress. This is happening in UAE and Qatar..... Alcohol is allowedl but you will pay tax .it is a gradual process, they will get there.

The infallibility of the quraan must be rejected first. after all the quran was composed long after Muhammad death by his companions who memorized the literature by heart. something maybe missing or something must have been added. the Muslim world should take a critical look on it it. and again most Muslims do not really know too much about Islam. They were born into Muslim families, so being Muslim is a lot like a birth identity for them. And when you criticize Islam or a problematic verse in the Quran, or joke about Muhammad, they take it personally as an attack on them, on their identity.so with this fact in mind, people who will start the reformation must have Muslim identity so that the Muslim can feel a sense of belonging.and they will know you are not talking about them as people but their set of ideas and believe. the approach should be productive honest and responsible and not the type martins is advocating.

vaxx:
if jews can be reformed, what is stoping islam. Jews use to be like islam before. What is going to be change is how the muslim think and not how islam is spell in the literature. If the Muslim are reformed, Islam will be reformed. We are human being, so we can always progress. This is happening in UAE and Qatar..... Alcohol is allowedl but you will pay tax .it is a gradual process, they will get there.

The infallibility of the quraan must be rejected first. after all the quran was composed long after Muhammad death by his companions who memorized the literature by heart. something maybe missing or something must have been added. the Muslim world should take a critical look on it it. and again most Muslims do not really know too much about Islam. They were born into Muslim families, so being Muslim is a lot like a birth identity for them. And when you criticize Islam or a problematic verse in the Quran, or joke about Muhammad, they take it personally as an attack on them, on their identity.so with this fact in mind, people who will start the [b]reformation must have Muslim identity so that the Muslim can feel a sense of belonging[/b]and they will know you are not talking about them as people but their set of ideas and believe. the approach should be productive honest and responsible and not the type martins is advocating.

vaxx:
if jews can be reformed, what is stoping islam. Jews use to be like islam before. What is going to be change is how the muslim think and not how islam is spell in the literature. If the Muslim are reformed, Islam will be reformed. We are human being, so we can always progress. This is happening in UAE and Qatar..... Alcohol is allowedl but you will pay tax .it is a gradual process, they will get there.

The infallibility of the quraan must be rejected first. after all the quran was composed long after Muhammad death by his companions who memorized the literature by heart. something maybe missing or something must have been added. the Muslim world should take a critical look on it it. and again most Muslims do not really know too much about Islam. They were born into Muslim families, so being Muslim is a lot like a birth identity for them. And when you criticize Islam or a problematic verse in the Quran, or joke about Muhammad, they take it personally as an attack on them, on their identity.so with this fact in mind, people who will start the reformation must have Muslim identity so that the Muslim can feel a sense of belonging.and they will know you are not talking about them as people but their set of ideas and believe. the approach should be productive honest and responsible and not the type martins is advocating.

segunojo866:
good idea. Are you an atheist? Honestly if it's possible religion should be banned in Nigeria just like the way it was banned in China. China was a religious country many decades ago and suffer from poverty but the modern China without religion has the fastest growing economy and second largest economy in the world. The more churches in Nigeria the more the people and government depends on god.

HigherEd:
No instead we should jail stupid atheist militants like you and throw away the keys.

vaxx:
you are now descending into bigotry against those honest Muslim out there. this is dehumanization. you already conclude Islam is entirely evil which is not true. countries such as Qatar , UAE and Oman are proving you wrong. these are countries founded on Islamic ideology but liberal as a people.

it is like saying Nigeria is a corrupt country, does it also mean every person who hold NIGERIA identity is also corrupt? to me , you are the hypocrite here for confirming and concluding all Islam doctrines are evil. i am sure you have never study Islam beyond the news.

dnexteinstein:
Anyone who is truely intelligent and really wants to be honest would by now have realized that Islam is the "greatest threat" to human advancements. Religionists might disagree but there is enough evidence in history to assert that the Islamization of the West will cripple human advancement.

The Arabs would be the toast of the world today if not for their irrational belief system, codified as a religion (Islam). All religion are detrimental to human advancement but Islam is first among the park. Islam has failed the Arab nation. Now they wana export their failure to the world's most progressive societies. I wonder why Africans are eager to copy a model that has already failed its creators.

vaxx:
you are now descending into bigotry against those honest Muslim out there. this is dehumanization. you already conclude Islam is entirely evil which is not true. countries such as Qatar , UAE and Oman are proving you wrong. these are countries founded on Islamic ideology but liberal as a people.

it is like saying Nigeria is a corrupt country, does it also mean every person who hold NIGERIA identity is also corrupt? to me , you are the hypocrite here for confirming and concluding all Islam doctrines are evil. i am sure you have never study Islam beyond the news.

dnexteinstein:
Those countries you mentioned are actually feigning liberalism for the porpose of securing western patronage.

Martinez19:
Islam is based on the quran which doctrines are evil. A Muslim is someone who follows and abides by the teachings and doctrines of the quran. Please don't try to detach the identity as if it has no connect on bearing from the ideology. As long as Islam is in existence, there will always be radicals. The moderates are hypocrites that do not take the quran fully and seriously meanwhile they advocate the quran. So you see hypocritical Muslims called moderates and radicals are dangerous. Finally, never try to separate the identity and ideology as if they have no deep connection with each other. The ideology is evil and the identity is for those who choose to abide by it.