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But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire - Religion (3) - Nairaland

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Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by otr1(m): 4:21pm On Feb 11, 2018
jaxxy:


The law is put as check and balance. Breaking certain laws there can be consequences from God and even man bt simply fufilling the law can not save u. In fact we cannot even fulfil the whole laws. Hence we need grace and faith and God gave us that through his son. The word of God is True wisdom! I love it
@the bolded, the Bible has a different teaching (James 2:10).
You don't fulfil the law, you keep it.
Fulfilling the law as used anywhere in the Bible means to teach fully or bring full meaning to it.
If you love God, you'll strive to keep His commandments. No sinner will see God.
Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by jaxxy(m): 4:30pm On Feb 11, 2018
otr1:

@the bolded, the Bible has a different teaching (James 2:10).
You don't fulfil the law, you keep it.
Fulfilling the law as used anywhere in the Bible means to teach fully or bring full meaning to it.
If you love God, you'll strive to keep His commandments. No sinner will see God.

Ure misleading urself here. U can not fufill or keep the whole laws. Don't deceive urself. Its is by grace not works. I strive to keep the law nt do not live under the law. If i live under the the law i will be condemned cos nobody can keep the whole law smtn will stand against u and u will be judge cos u chose to live under the law so depend on his son not on ur works.

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Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by otr1(m): 4:44pm On Feb 11, 2018
jaxxy:


Ure misleading urself here. U can not fufill or keep the whole laws. Don't deceive urself. Its is by grace not works. I strive to keep the law nt do not live under the law. If i live under the the law i will be condemned cos nobody can keep the whole law smtn will stand against u and u will be judge cos u chose to live under the law so depend on his son not on ur works.
It depends on the law you're talking about.
The bible no where teaches grace as a licence to breaking the law (10 commandments).
We are saved by grace, yes, because even our righteousness is like filth unto God, but we must still keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus if we want to make it.
Unless of course you have problems with obedience. Which of the 10 commandments do you have problem keeping?
Because last time I checked, the 10 commandments doesn't condemned anyone, it's the ceremonial laws that Paul was referring to.
Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by jaxxy(m): 4:55pm On Feb 11, 2018
otr1:

It depends on the law you're talking about.
The bible no where teaches grace as a licence to breaking the law (10 commandments).
We are saved by grace, yes, because even our righteousness is like filth unto God, but we must still keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus if we want to make it.
Unless of course you have problems with obedience. Which of the 10 commandments do you have problem keeping?
Because last time I checked, the 10 commandments doesn't condemned anyone, it's the ceremonial laws that Paul was referring to.

U mentioning the 10 commandments mean like u want to live by it. I only use it for my check and balance not for my salvation. U can fufill the 10 commandments and go to hell. U realise that?
Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by bloodofthelamb(m): 4:57pm On Feb 11, 2018
otr1:

It depends on the law you're talking about.
The bible no where teaches grace as a licence to breaking the law (10 commandments).
We are saved by grace, yes, because even our righteousness is like filth unto God, but we must still keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus if we want to make it.
Unless of course you have problems with obedience. Which of the 10 commandments do you have problem keeping?
Because last time I checked, the 10 commandments doesn't condemned anyone, it's the ceremonial laws that Paul was referring to.

We do not need the letter for God's holy law is written in our hearts by His Spirit.

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Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by otr1(m): 5:18pm On Feb 11, 2018
jaxxy:


U mentioning the 10 commandments mean like u want to live by it. I only use it for my check and balance not for my salvation. U can fufill the 10 commandments and go to hell. U realise that?
I never said just keeping the law could save anyone.
May be you missed the part where I added... "and the faith of Jesus".
That makes the difference between Christians and others (almost all non-Christians agree with most parts of the commandments, except the Yahweh and Sabbath parts).
But can we claim to be Christlike if we don't keep the law? Even he, our role model kept the law as an example for us to follow.
Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by otr1(m): 5:23pm On Feb 11, 2018
bloodofthelamb:


We do not need the letter for God's holy law is written in our hearts by His Spirit.
No one is disputing that. Even before God gave the law at Sinai, evidence has it that it has always been in existence (in their hearts). Or how else do you think Joseph knew adultery is a sin? Or on which basis was Cain guilty of killing Abel if no exists (we all know sin is the breaking of the law right?).
The point is, the law still exists (written or not)
Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by Charlesdock(m): 6:13pm On Feb 11, 2018
vicardino:
Omo ibadan, better not to quote the scripture than to quote it out of context to fit your devilish and witchcraft belief. That's a religion, not Christianity. So, Christianity to you is just all about visiting orphans and widows in their distress and not being polluted? Show me the work of Christ in that. What kinda christians are churches breeding nowadays? By the way, how many orphanages and widows have you helped? Read from verse 26 & even the verse 27 you quoted, I might need a day to interpret it for you.
Issokay ooh Pasito

Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by Nobody: 7:59pm On Feb 11, 2018
femi4:
You quoted Ezekiel, before the dispensation of grace. Haba, I expected you to know better

The Jews have no idea what you are talking about.

Gods word is unchangeable, there is no such thing as the dispensation of grace, Gods grace has ever been present.

"But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord" Gen 6:8 .

"For the LORD God is our sun and our shield. He gives us grace and glory. The LORD will withhold no good thing from those who do what is right." - Psalm 84:11

You are the most excellent of men
and your lips have been anointed with grace,
since God has blessed you forever - Psalm 45

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Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by femi4: 8:55pm On Feb 11, 2018
frosbel2:


The Jews have no idea what you are talking about.

Gods word is unchangeable, there is no such thing as the dispensation of grace, Gods grace has ever been present.

"But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord" Gen 6:8 .

"For the LORD God is our sun and our shield. He gives us grace and glory. The LORD will withhold no good thing from those who do what is right." - Psalm 84:11

You are the most excellent of men
and your lips have been anointed with grace,
since God has blessed you forever - Psalm 45
Don't get it twisted

The word grace occurs 20 times in the NKJV Old Testament usually in the sense of "favor." The first usage, as so often is the case in the God's Word, is illuminating:

"But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord" (Gen 6:8.

The context of "dispensation of grace" goes beyond favour.

It involves forgiveness and redemption by the blood of Christ

John 1:14-15

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth

ROM 5:17

17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

God word is unchangeable but you did not believe in the word of the one he sent.

Jn 12:47-50

If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. 49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. 50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.
Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by Nobody: 9:15pm On Feb 11, 2018
^^

Most of the New Testament is a FRAUD !!

The scriptures Paul and Apostles referred to was always the SO CALLED OLD TESTAMENT. No NEW TESTAMENT existed at the time.

The so called OLD TESTAMENT is authentic, God does not change TODAY, YESTERDAY OR EVER.
Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by Ericsdm55(m): 3:17am On Feb 12, 2018
toobusy:
Does this actually means that God takes more notice and favour his sinful children than the good ones,i don't understand,
Not exactly, salvation is the finished work of Christ. in Jesus is the revelation of whom God truly is. For its absolutely impossible to keep the whole law of God without falling in the other. Many Christians do not truly understand what Jesus did for mankind and sadly so, most preachers line of message is diverted. God loves us more when we put our faith in His Son Jesus and not in our work of struggling to keep His law. Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and death, but unfortunately most people will rather continue to struggle with law, trying so hard to obey it but miserably falling again and again. God bless you.
Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by 5solas(m): 5:21am On Feb 12, 2018
grin
jiggaz:
Hia... Lol

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Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by gradeA(m): 3:14pm On Feb 12, 2018
otr1:

It depends on the law you're talking about.
The bible no where teaches grace as a licence to breaking the law (10 commandments).
We are saved by grace, yes, because even our righteousness is like filth unto God, but we must still keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus if we want to make it.
Unless of course you have problems with obedience. Which of the 10 commandments do you have problem keeping?
Because last time I checked, the 10 commandments doesn't condemned anyone, it's the ceremonial laws that Paul was referring to.


What is the motive behind keeping God's words or commandments? Do you do it so as to fulfil the law and avoid judgement? if that's the reason, it's totally wrong. Remember Christ is the fulfilment of the Law, and once we recieve Him, we have fully fulfilled the law see rom ;7 vs 1-3. The motive behind our good works (keeping the law) is geared towards obedience. It indicates that we love God. That we seek to please God. That its our Choice to recieve God's gracious act of salvation, and not just it imposed on us. Remember we are saved by Grace through Faith. Meaning we recieve this salvation of grace through Faith. Now remember Faith without works is dead. Meaning our works indicates our willingness to recieve this gracious act of God.

The fact that we fail to receive a gift does not mean the gift was not given in the first place.

It is a process flow. Good works is a by product of the act of grace. Your good works never comes before salvation but after salvation. No matter how good you are before salvation, that alone can never save you, but you live the good life after being saved as a show of Faith and willingness to accept the salvation plan of God solely by Grace.

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Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by otr1(m): 4:22pm On Feb 12, 2018
gradeA:



What is the motive behind keeping God's words or commandments? Do you do it so as to fulfil the law and avoid judgement? if that's the reason, it's totally wrong. Remember Christ is the fulfilment of the Law, and once we recieve Him, we have fully fulfilled the law see rom ;7 vs 1-3. The motive behind our good works (keeping the law) is geared towards obedience. It indicates that we love God. That we seek to please God. That its our Choice to recieve God's gracious act of salvation, and not just it imposed on us. Remember we are saved by Grace through Faith. Meaning we recieve this salvation of grace through Faith. Now remember Faith without works is dead. Meaning our works indicates our willingness to recieve this gracious act of God.

The fact that we fail to receive a gift does not mean the gift was not given in the first place.

It is a process flow. Good works is a by product of the act of grace. Your good works never comes before salvation but after salvation. No matter how good you are before salvation, that alone can never save you, but you live the good life after being saved as a show of Faith and willingness to accept the salvation plan of God solely by Grace.
You can not claim to have faith without works. You show your faith in God by your works. James 2:18 is clear on this.
Let no one deceive you, it's only those that keeps the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus that are entitled to receive God's grace.
As you rightly said, obedience to the commandments of God is a show of Faith. But merely obeying the commandments without faith in Jesus is nothing. Nevertheless, faith and works are like red and black electric wires. You must have the two before you can have the light. In like manner, our faith in Jesus and obedience to God's commandments gives us the grace to inherit his kingdom
Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by jamescross: 4:29pm On Feb 12, 2018
otr1:

It depends on the law you're talking about.
The bible no where teaches grace as a licence to breaking the law (10 commandments).
We are saved by grace, yes, because even our righteousness is like filth unto God, but we must still keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus if we want to make it.
Unless of course you have problems with obedience. Which of the 10 commandments do you have problem keeping?
Because last time I checked, the 10 commandments doesn't condemned anyone, it's the ceremonial laws that Paul was referring to.
thou shall not kill


but i kill chicken and eat cheesy
Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by jamescross: 4:31pm On Feb 12, 2018
jaxxy:


U mentioning the 10 commandments mean like u want to live by it. I only use it for my check and balance not for my salvation. U can fufill the 10 commandments and go to hell. U realise that?
no one can fulfill the 10 commands not to even speak of going to hell fulfilling it
Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by jamescross: 4:34pm On Feb 12, 2018
otr1:

I never said just keeping the law could save anyone.
May be you missed the part where I added... "and the faith of Jesus".
That makes the difference between Christians and others (almost all non-Christians agree with most parts of the commandments, except the Yahweh and Sabbath parts).
But can we claim to be Christlike if we don't keep the law? Even he, our role model kept the law as an example for us to follow.
one is 'christlike' because they serve and forgive others
Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by jamescross: 4:38pm On Feb 12, 2018
frosbel2:


The Jews have no idea what you are talking about.

Gods word is unchangeable, there is no such thing as the dispensation of grace, Gods grace has ever been present.

"But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord" Gen 6:8 .

"For the LORD God is our sun and our shield. He gives us grace and glory. The LORD will withhold no good thing from those who do what is right." - Psalm 84:11

You are the most excellent of men
and your lips have been anointed with grace,
since God has blessed you forever - Psalm 45
'dispensation' in those days very very very few men saw God's grace.
Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by jamescross: 4:42pm On Feb 12, 2018
frosbel2:
^^

Most of the New Testament is a FRAUD !!

The scriptures Paul and Apostles referred to was always the SO CALLED OLD TESTAMENT. No NEW TESTAMENT existed at the time.

The so called OLD TESTAMENT is authentic, God does not change TODAY, YESTERDAY OR EVER.
saying the OT is scripture is correct but what basis having you to call the NT fraud
Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by jamescross: 4:53pm On Feb 12, 2018
otr1:

You can not claim to have faith without works. You show your faith in God by your works. James 2:18 is clear on this.
Let no one deceive you, it's only those that keeps the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus that are entitled to receive God's grace.
As you rightly said, obedience to the commandments of God is a show of Faith. But merely obeying the commandments without faith in Jesus is nothing. Nevertheless, faith and works are like red and black electric wires. You must have the two before you can have the light. In like manner, our faith in Jesus and obedience to God's commandments gives us the grace to inherit his kingdom
you speak of an entitlement not a gift, is that what God's grace is to you.

so how do you have faith in Jesus if you're yet to receive grace?

you say grace is gotten by works? what work did noah, abraham, jacob do before they found God's grace?
Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by jamescross: 4:55pm On Feb 12, 2018
gradea which works, works of love or works of the law
Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by gradeA(m): 5:45pm On Feb 12, 2018
otr1:

You can not claim to have faith without works. You show your faith in God by your works. James 2:18 is clear on this.
Let no one deceive you, it's only those that keeps the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus that are entitled to receive God's grace.
As you rightly said, obedience to the commandments of God is a show of Faith. But merely obeying the commandments without faith in Jesus is nothing. Nevertheless, faith and works are like red and black electric wires. You must have the two before you can have the light. In like manner, our faith in Jesus and obedience to God's commandments gives us the grace to inherit his kingdom


My dear show me a man with works of love and I would show you a man of Faith. It was counted for Abraham as great Faith because he obeyed God and witheld not his only son (works). Please study James 2 carefully. Faith without works is like the body without Spirit. It is dead. Faith is the body, works the spirit. Any one who has good works (works geared towards obedience and not trying to fulfil the law) automatically has great Faith.
Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by gradeA(m): 5:47pm On Feb 12, 2018
jamescross:
gradea which works, works of love or works of the law


Works of love dear.
Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by otr1(m): 6:06pm On Feb 12, 2018
jamescross:
you speak of an entitlement not a gift, is that what God's grace is to you.

so how do you have faith in Jesus if you're yet to receive grace?

you say grace is gotten by works? what work did noah, abraham, jacob do before they found God's grace?
Except you don't know these men walked righteously before God, you won't be asking what work they did.
If you understand the import of that James 2 , you'll realize work is seen in the light of obedience to God.
Noah and his family received God's grace because he was a just and perfect man in his generation (Gen. 6:9).
The same thing could be said of the other men you mentioned.
No one can be perfect before God, but we must still show our commitment to him while acknowledging the fact that we are saved by his grace.
To receive this grace, there are requirements you know?
It's not an entitlement but a gift, but then you have to profess the faith of Jesus and obey God's words to have a shot at it. It's not automatic. That's my point.
That's why even Jesus said not all who call him Lord will make heaven. That means you can't be shouting Jesus up-and-down while wallowing in sin and still expect God's grace to cover you.

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Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by 5solas(m): 7:31pm On Feb 12, 2018
jiggaz:
Beautiful explanation. Thank u bro.
Thank you!

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Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by jamescross: 7:34pm On Feb 12, 2018
otr1 you answered only this question if not mistaken and wrote grace is not an entitlement but a gift but the other two questions.

ok, let's begin

josh 24:2 abraham's family served idols
gen 17:1 more than twenty years after the Lord called him, he said to abram,"walk before me and be perfect"

rom 9:12-13
heb 11:7 yes the bible said noah was just, rom 1:17 the just shall live by faith. how does faith come? are we born with faith? no, rom 10:17

faith comes from God ( rom 10:18-21)
2 thess 3:2b not everyman has faith
wait how does faith come from God? through accepting his word
john 1:14 the word is grace and truth.
eph 2:8 you can't have faith without grace.

i asked now i ask you again which grace are you seeking if you claim you have faith?

the matt 7:22 (15-23) is talking about God's will, rom 12:2, which is bearing fruit and that is the fruit of the Holy Spirit gal 5:22 which is the evidence of faith.

am still coming to james 2, but tell me first if your ready to learn so i can gonna and teach it.
Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by jiggaz(m): 8:16pm On Feb 12, 2018
Ericsdm55:

Not exactly, salvation is the finished work of Christ. in Jesus is the revelation of whom God truly is. For its absolutely impossible to keep the whole law of God without falling in the other. Many Christians do not truly understand what Jesus did for mankind and sadly so, most preachers line of message is diverted. God loves us more when we put our faith in His Son Jesus and not in our work of struggling to keep His law. Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and death, but unfortunately most people will rather continue to struggle with law, trying so hard to obey it but miserably falling again and again. God bless you.
beautiful explanation... Thank you!!

1 Like

Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by Nobody: 2:58am On Feb 13, 2018
femi4:
You quoted Ezekiel, before the dispensation of grace. Haba, I expected you to know better
ehn,,, before grace... when did grace start? grace started practically right in the garden of Eden
Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by femi4: 3:32am On Feb 13, 2018
Ferisidowu:
ehn,,, before grace... when did grace start? grace started practically right in the garden of Eden
You need to start reading from the beginning; "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ"
Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by otr1(m): 7:20pm On Feb 14, 2018
jamescross:
otr1 you answered only this question if not mistaken and wrote grace is not an entitlement but a gift but the other two questions.

ok, let's begin

josh 24:2 abraham's family served idols
gen 17:1 more than twenty years after the Lord called him, he said to abram,"walk before me and be perfect"

rom 9:12-13
heb 11:7 yes the bible said noah was just, rom 1:17 the just shall live by faith. how does faith come? are we born with faith? no, rom 10:17

faith comes from God ( rom 10:18-21)
2 thess 3:2b not everyman has faith
wait how does faith come from God? through accepting his word
john 1:14 the word is grace and truth.
eph 2:8 you can't have faith without grace.

i asked now i ask you again which grace are you seeking if you claim you have faith?

the matt 7:22 (15-23) is talking about God's will, rom 12:2, which is bearing fruit and that is the fruit of the Holy Spirit gal 5:22 which is the evidence of faith.

am still coming to james 2, but tell me first if your ready to learn so i can gonna and teach it.
What you should be telling me now is how grace absolves anyone from obeying the law of God. Don't forget Abram got the name "Man of faith" through obedience.
Tell me one man that enjoys God's grace in the Bible but never obedient. Tell me one, then we can continue.
You can refer to the title of the OP
Re: But Where Sin Abounded, Grace Abounded Much More - Olamide Obire by jamescross: 8:29pm On Feb 14, 2018
otr1:

What you should be telling me now is how grace absolves anyone from obeying the law of God. Don't forget Abram got the name "Man of faith" through obedience.
Tell me one man that enjoys God's grace in the Bible but never obedient. Tell me one, then we can continue.
You can refer to the title of the OP
through obeying the voice of God, the same thing Moses said. not obeying the law, Abraham didn't oelbey a law he obeyed God's Voice.

Those who are led by the Spirit of God are obedient to the voice of God. my sheep! they know my voice. this isn't complicated except for those who aren't part of the family

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