₦airaland Forum

The way certain people think...

Anything lost to the hands of time with little or no shreds of evidence automatically becomes a myth...

Jesus na myth

Eden na myth...

Even Moses na folklore...

But Mohammed is real, Bhudda is real...even Confucius is real...

Issorait...just strolling past quietly ooo

dalaman:
Yes according to the bible the heaven and earth were created together in the beginning. It's that simple.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth it days. It didn't say God created the heaven then the earth. Very simple English.




Maybe you know better than the people that translated the most accurate English translation of the Hebrew Bible the JPS and the King James version which still remains the most popular and widely recognized as the most accurate English translation. They translated ot as Heaven. Go and argue with them.

:



Here is your very first quote. Universe does not appearin it. And that was what I responded to Mr lie lie. Show me where universe appears in it.



Show me where you posted anything that has the word universe in this first reply you made which I replied to. It was after I replied that you lied that I said no bible hub list had universe in it and you went to bring it. Show me universe from the first list you posted or accept that you lied.





I've shown you the very first list you posted which I replied to. Universe does not appear there.




Based on the bible translations that we have the Hebrew word was translated as heaven in some and heavens in others. We haven't settled that yet and you are running to heavenly bodies. Heavenlybodies does not appear in the verse.




They chose the best meaning in the context it was used. Go and argue with them.

It seems lying is your latest designer wear. Attached is a screengrab from your own post of my list. Since you deny universe being there even after I put it first in black bolded text and later in red bold text.

What do Good news translation and International standard version translations say on that list?

Liar liar dalaman.

dalaman:.

Based on the bible translations that we have the Hebrew word was translated as heaven in some and heavens in others. We haven't settled that yet and you are running to heavenly bodies. Heavenlybodies does not appear in the verse.

shemayim: heaven, sky, visible heavens, heaven as realm of the stars.
Although shemayim is a plural form, its meaning here is singular (like “mathematics” in English)—as reflected in the Greek translation known as the Septuagint, which uses the singular form oura­non. For Tyndale in his time and place to translate shemayim as “heaven” was entirely appro­priate, but that is no longer the case. In 1530 shemayim meant the visible dome of the sky in which the sun was embedded. That dome rotated around the earth carrying the sun by day and the moon and stars by night.


Also

The Hebrew Shamayim
Some translate the first verse of the Bible

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

The key word here is 'heavens'. The heavens is a plural translation. The justification for this seems to stem from grammatical studies that the Hebrew word transliterated 'shamayim' (non-phonetic smym) is a Hebrew dual word. There is no singular variant of the Hebrew shamayim. So I looked into this and came to my own conclusion that the Hebrew word 'shamayim' appears as a dual because it is a compound of the Hebrew word 'mayim' meaning waters.


Also from the Jewish Encyclopedia


HEAVEN (Hebr. "shamayim" [the heavens], from "shama" [the high place]):


Chiefly, the upper part of the universe in contradistinction to the earth (Gen. i. 1); the region in which sun, moon, and stars are placed (Gen. i. 17).


Keep on with your deception and lies. Na look I go just dey look you

butterflyl1on:
dalaman:.






shemayim: heaven, sky, visible heavens, heaven as realm of the stars.
Although shemayim is a plural form, its meaning here is singular (like “mathematics” in English)—as reflected in the Greek translation known as the Septuagint, which uses the singular form oura­non. For Tyndale in his time and place to translate shemayim as “heaven” was entirely appro­priate, but that is no longer the case. In 1530 shemayim meant the visible dome of the sky in which the sun was embedded. That dome rotated around the earth carrying the sun by day and the moon and stars by night.


Also

The Hebrew Shamayim
Some translate the first verse of the Bible

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

The key word here is 'heavens'. The heavens is a plural translation. The justification for this seems to stem from grammatical studies that the Hebrew word transliterated 'shamayim' (non-phonetic smym) is a Hebrew dual word. There is no singular variant of the Hebrew shamayim. So I looked into this and came to my own conclusion that the Hebrew word 'shamayim' appears as a dual because it is a compound of the Hebrew word 'mayim' meaning waters.


Also from the Jewish Encyclopedia


HEAVEN (Hebr. "shamayim" [the heavens], from "shama" [the high place]):


Chiefly, the upper part of the universe in contradistinction to the earth (Gen. i. 1); the region in which sun, moon, and stars are placed (Gen. i. 17).


Keep on with your deception and lies. Na look I go just dey look you

Perhaps he is misunderstood, I think he deserves a chance to explain his point of view better... before insults fly around on this thread....like the other theist vs atheist threads...

dalaman ... the ball is in your court. And please try to overlook whatever might provoke you to unleash a tirade of insults...

Thanks in advance for your display of maturity...

butterflyl1on:
It seems lying is your latest designer wear. Attached is a screengrab from your own post of my list. Since you deny universe being there even after I put it first in black bolded text and later in red bold text.

What do Good news translation and International standard version translations say on that list?

Liar liar dalaman.

My guy you are a liar.

That is NOT your first post which I replied to. This was your first post Mr lie lie.

https://www.nairaland.com/4356022/top-five-reasons-why-god/1#65256955

New International Version
In the beginning God created the heavens[and the earth.

New Living Translation
In the beginning God created[b] the heavens[/b] and the earth.

English Standard Version
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

New American Standard Bible
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

King James Bible
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Christian Standard Bible
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Contemporary English Version
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Good News Translation
In the beginning, when God created the universe,

Holman Christian Standard Bible
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

International Standard Version
In the beginning, God created the universe.

NET Bible
In the beginning God created[b] the heavens[/b] and the earth.

New Heart English Bible
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
In the beginning God created heaven and earth.

JPS Tanakh 1917
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

New American Standard 1977
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Jubilee Bible 2000
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

King James 2000 Bible
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

American King James Version
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

American Standard Version
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Douay-Rheims Bible
In the beginning God created heaven, and earth.

Darby Bible Translation
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

English Revised Version
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Webster's Bible Translation
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

World English Bible
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Young's Literal Translation
In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth

I replied to this list by saying you did not mention universe anywhere. You then went and brought a second list ad lied that I said the bible hub did not mention universe anywhere. Where is the word universe is the first list that I replied to Mr lie lie?

You are shameless

butterflyl1on:
dalaman:.






shemayim: heaven, sky, visible heavens, heaven as realm of the stars.
Although shemayim is a plural form, its meaning here is singular (like “mathematics” in English)—as reflected in the Greek translation known as the Septuagint, which uses the singular form oura­non. For Tyndale in his time and place to translate shemayim as “heaven” was entirely appro­priate, but that is no longer the case. In 1530 shemayim meant the visible dome of the sky in which the sun was embedded. That dome rotated around the earth carrying the sun by day and the moon and stars by night.


Also

The Hebrew Shamayim
Some translate the first verse of the Bible

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

The key word here is 'heavens'. The heavens is a plural translation. The justification for this seems to stem from grammatical studies that the Hebrew word transliterated 'shamayim' (non-phonetic smym) is a Hebrew dual word. There is no singular variant of the Hebrew shamayim. So I looked into this and came to my own conclusion that the Hebrew word 'shamayim' appears as a dual because it is a compound of the Hebrew word 'mayim' meaning waters.


Also from the Jewish Encyclopedia


HEAVEN (Hebr. "shamayim" [the heavens], from "shama" [the high place]):


Chiefly, the upper part of the universe in contradistinction to the earth (Gen. i. 1); the region in which sun, moon, and stars are placed (Gen. i. 17).


Keep on with your deception and lies. Na look I go just dey look you

You got me where? The most accurate English translation of the Hebrew Bible used Heaven and you are here arguing. Go and argue with them. Didn't they know that it means heavens before they chose heaven as the best translation in that context? Go and argue with the JPS and king James version which most people accept as the most reliable ones.

dalaman:
My guy you are a liar.

That is NOT your first post which I replied to. This was your first post Mr lie lie.

https://www.nairaland.com/4356022/top-five-reasons-why-god/1#65256955



I replied to this list by saying you did not mention universe anywhere. You then went and brought a second list ad lied that I said the bible hub did not mention universe anywhere. Where is the word universe is the first list that I replied to Mr lie lie?

You are shameless

Why are you this dumb? Check the list you posted yourself if there is no Good News translation there or no International standard version there?

Are you a liar and also blind? What do those versions say on the list you say I posted?

Bloody liar. You have removed the universe in both the good news translations and the international standard versions which I made bold. You now made them plain.

When you even begin to lie to yourself then your case is hopeless.

Why don't you click the link you provided yourself and see if universe is not deliberately put in bold by me in both the good news and international standard translations on that list.

Deceptive liar.

dalaman:
God createdthe heaven and the earth in the beginning, it didn't say God created the heaven before the earth. That remains your own making. If it wants to say God created the heaven before the earth it will tate that God created the heaven then the earth.

You seem to have an issue with proper thinking. Let's even assume that God created the heaven and the earth in the beginning. First, its not hard to observe that the first phrase of the verse says "In the beginning (of time)", apparently. That means the creation of heaven and earth was done in time. Given this, the creation of both heaven and earth came at specific times and couldn't have been done together since they are different entities. One had to come before the other. Even the subsequent creations of light, trees, birds, fishes, animals etc reveal how one creation is done before the other. Never together.

Now, since the Bible says " heaven and earth", would it not be pure stupidity to suppose that the earth came before the Heavens. It will be equally silly to think the both were created simultaneously. These are different entities!

For example, you find the persistent choice of expression; "Moses and Aaron" (Exodus 4:29, 5:1, 5:4). Why never Aaron and Moses?

Just like you find Shem, Ham and Japheth in the order of their birth consistently. (Gen 5:32, 6:10, 7:13, 9:18, 9:22, 10:1)


The same way with the sons of Zebedee; you always find James before John consistently (Matt 4:21, 10:2, 17:21, Mark 1:19, 1:29, 3:17, 5:27, 9:2, 10:25, 10:41, 13:3, 14:33, Luke 5:10, 6:14, 8:51, 9:54, etc).

Order is found through the Bible. If heavens came first before earth in the creation of things, its clear that it was mede before the earth. WAY TOO CLEAR!

Am talking about REALITY and you are regurgitatingancient mythology and folklore.

Do you know any source of light that shines on earth and is responsible for day and night other than the sun? If you do show it to us. What am I to do with ancient mythologicalnarratives that talks about day and night existing before the sun was created or that some lamb will light up some fictional place. Am talkingabout reality not mythology. If you know any source of light that is responsible for day and nit other than the sun just point to it. Am not interested in your mythical stories.

You are a funny guy o. LOL.

Did you lose your remembering capacity to know that what we are discussing here is the Bible. All that occupy our contention here is the Bible na. How come it suddenly became mythology when I used it to clear your doubt just now. I just answered you with the sane Bible you were confused about as to the creation of the sun and it has suddenly become mythology.
Are you really alright?
That's the science of the Bible though. Comprehend it or leave it.

shaw-mah'-yim
Definition
heaven, heavens, sky

visible heavens, sky
as abode of the stars
as the visible universe, the sky, atmosphere, etc

Heaven (as the abode of God)

SMH.

This is the height of delusion.

Why ignore the underlined?

Besides where is your source?

dalaman:
You got me where? The most accurate English translation of the Hebrew Bible used Heaven and you are here arguing. Go and argue with them. Didn't they know that it means heavens before they chose heaven as the best translation in that context? Go and argue with the JPS and king James version which most people accept as the most reliable ones.

I deliberately posted where you were schooled in your ignorance. That place says shamayim is used in plural form in Hebrew so Heaven means HEAVENS.

I know you don't read so you can continue in your ignorance.

OkCornel:
The way certain people think...

Anything lost to the hands of time with little or no shreds of evidence automatically becomes a myth...

Jesus na myth

Eden na myth...

Even Moses na folklore...

But Mohammed is real, Bhudda is real...even Confucius is real...

Issorait...just strolling past quietly ooo

You are always strolling.


You no get work?

damosky12:
You seem to have an issue with proper thinking. Let's even assume that God created the heaven and the earth in the beginning. First, its not hard to observe that the first phrase of the verse says "In the beginning (of time)", apparently. That means the creation of heaven and earth was done in time. Given this, the creation of both heaven and earth came at specific times and couldn't have been done together since they are different entities. One had to come before the other. Even the subsequent creations of light, trees, birds, fishes, animals etc reveal how one creation is done before the other. Never together.

Now, since the Bible says " heaven and earth", would it not be pure stupidity to suppose that the earth came before the Heavens. It will be equally silly to think the both were created simultaneously. These are different entities!

For example, you find the persistent choice of expression; "Moses and Aaron" (Exodus 4:29, 5:1, 5:4). Why never Aaron and Moses?

Just like you find Shem, Ham and Japheth in the order of their birth consistently. (Gen 5:32, 6:10, 7:13, 9:18, 9:22, 10:1)


The same way with the sons of Zebedee; you always find James before John consistently (Matt 4:21, 10:2, 17:21, Mark 1:19, 1:29, 3:17, 5:27, 9:2, 10:25, 10:41, 13:3, 14:33, Luke 5:10, 6:14, 8:51, 9:54, etc).

Order is found through the Bible. If heavens came first before earth in the creation of things, its clear that it was mede before the earth. WAY TOO CLEAR!

Are you just knowing that guy?

He would know he is wrong but would still argue it just to win an argument. He is ready to argue this with you for this entire year despite the truth being right there before him.

damosky12:
You are always strolling.


You no get work?

I dey multi-task jare

I cannot come and go and kill myself by myself

OkCornel:
Perhaps he is misunderstood, I think he deserves a chance to explain his point of view better... before insults fly around on this thread....like the other theist vs atheist threads...

dalaman ... the ball is in your court. And please try to overlook whatever might provoke you to unleash a tirade of insults...

Thanks in advance for your display of maturity...

He is not misunderstood. He knows what he is doing. This is how he consistently parades deception as truth by trying to twist the scriptures to his own end when the truth is right in front of him. He alone always sees something different so when I call him a liar and a deceiver those are apt descriptions of who he is and what he does regarding scripture.

butterflyl1on:
Are you just knowing that guy?

He would know he is wrong but would still argue it just to win an argument. He is ready to argue this with you for this entire year despite the truth being right there before him.

Ah! All just to keep feeding his delusion.

The Bible is right to describe certain people as goats. That itself is scientific accuracy.

butterflyl1on:
He is not misunderstood. He knows what he is doing. This is how he consistently parades deception as truth by trying to twist the scriptures to his own end when the truth is right in front of him. He alone always sees something different so when I call him a liar and a deceiver those are apt descriptions of who he is and what he does regarding scripture.

No qualms... I would have assessed the situation better if I engaged him in a conversation or read the thread from top to bottom...no time for all of that now though...

Alright then....I leave it to you all. My only wish is that the conversation can continue without insults being exchanged by all parties involved.

You know how this whole thing will end up if insults are exchanged....everyone would eventually lose track of the topic being discussed...

Cheers bro

OkCornel:
No qualms... I would have assessed the situation better if I engaged him in a conversation or read the thread from top to bottom...no time for all of that now though...

Alright then....I leave it to you all. My only wish is that the conversation can continue without insults being exchanged by all parties involved.

You know how this whole thing will end up if insults are exchanged....everyone would eventually lose track of the topic being discussed...

Cheers bro

I never call him what he is not. He has always been the one who calls others liars when he is actually the one lying.

He has a habit of starting off his comments with liar liar before anything else.

I only call him a liar and a deceiver when I must have first shown him his lies and he still persists in them which is usually the case for him.

damosky12:
Ah! All just to keep feeding his delusion.

The Bible is right to describe certain people as goats. That itself is scientific accuracy.

Very right.

Cute9gerian:
Read the big bang, read evolution, read other views and other religions if you wish to,read scientific research , don't base your whole life on a single book, life is too complex for that.

you have not answered my question. what is you own view?

My own view on what exactly?

Nosu:
you have not answered my question. what is you own view?

Cute9gerian:
My own view on what exactly?

Your post pointed out that God didn't create the universe. my question to you is who/what/ how was the universe created/formed in your own view? I hope the question is clear. if you are sure that God didn't create the universe, I am pretty sure that you should have an answer to my question.

I don't know for sure how the universe was created, no one really knows even scientist atest to this fact unlike religion that claim to have all the answers but got it very wrong

Nosu:
Your post pointed out that God didn't create the universe. my question to you is who/what/ how was the universe created/formed in your own view? I hope the question is clear. if you are sure that God didn't create the universe, I am pretty sure that you should have an answer to my question.

Cute9gerian:
I don't know for sure how the universe was created, no one really knows even scientist atest to this fact unlike religion that claim to have all the answers but got it very wrong

First you say nobody knows and then you immediately switch and say unlike religion that claims to have all the answers but got it very wrong.

How can you say religion got it wrong when you just said nobody really knows? Are you not confused?

How then did you know religion got it wrong when nobody really knows how the universe was created (according to you)

It's either you have malaria or a malady of confusion.

Why are you spilling bullshit, scientist believe it was the big bang buy does not know as of yet what caused the big bang and admit to the fact but Christianity claiming to know, gives a sequence on how it was done, logical people studied it and figured out it is absolutely wrong.

butterflyl1on:
First you say nobody knows and then you immediately switch and say unlike religion that claims to have all the answers but got it very wrong.

How can you say religion got it wrong when you just said nobody really knows? Are you not confused?

How then did you know religion got it wrong when nobody really knows how the universe was created (according to you)

It's either you have malaria or a malady of confusion.

Cute9gerian:
Why are you spilling bullshit, scientist believe it was the big bang buy does not know as of yet what caused the big bang and admit to the fact but Christianity claiming to know, gives a sequence on how it was done, logical people studied it and figured out it is absolutely wrong.

Yet nobody knows but somehow they already know that Christianity got it wrong despite them not knowing the truth or the true origins themselves

Continue in your delusion.

I said nobody knows what caused the big bang but sure we know how the earth came to be

butterflyl1on:
Yet nobody knows but somehow they already know that Christianity got it wrong despite them not knowing the truth or the true origins themselves

Continue in your delusion.

Are you telling me you actually believe the Bible story of creation?

butterflyl1on:
Yet nobody knows but somehow they already know that Christianity got it wrong despite them not knowing the truth or the true origins themselves

Continue in your delusion.

Cute9gerian:
I said nobody knows what caused the big bang but sure we know how the earth came to be

1. We are talking about the big bang and not the earth.

2. How did the earth come to be?

* chewing popcorn here while reading*

The Big Bang is the most probable relative cause of the earth, do you want me to start lecturing you on the big bang

butterflyl1on:
1. We are talking about the big bang and not the earth.

2. How did the earth come to be?

* chewing popcorn here while reading*

Cute9gerian:
The Big Bang is the most probable relative cause of the earth, do you want me to start lecturing you on the big bang

Read your comment again and laugh at yourself.

You have no idea do you? For you to say MOST PROBABLE this means you are not sure.

Yet you claim the Christian version is false?

Ignorance galore.

butterflyl1on:
Read your comment again and laugh at yourself.

You have no idea do you? For you to say MOST PROBABLE this means you are not sure.

Yet you claim the Christian version is false?

Ignorance galore.

How did God create the earth according to the christian version? How did he create the sun? How did he create the stars? What about humans? How did you God create the cell? How did your God even create anything in nature? Does anybody know?

Cute9gerian:
Why are you spilling bullshit, scientist believe it was the big bang buy does not know as of yet what caused the big bang and admit to the fact but Christianity claiming to know, gives a sequence on how it was done, logical people studied it and figured out it is absolutely wrong.

Even if you will give him a million dollars to tell you how his God allegedly created the earth he won't be able to tell you , yet he is blabbing and talking nonsense.

He claims God created the universe but can NOT tell you how his God created anything in the universe . Is that not the utmost height of delusion?

damosky12:
Its unfortunate that the atheism of too many of you is built on lack of precise knowledge. What Genesis 1 primarily dealt with and described is the creation of the earth. Not universe. Genesis 1:1-2
[1]In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[2]And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep...

Talking about light years, see
Genesis 1:3-5
[3]And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
[4]And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
[5]And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Common sense reveals that days had not started UNTIL light arrived earth. Whether or not it is billions of years doesn't count here, since there were no such thing as days, years, centuries until verse 5, when day was first invented. So, between Genesis 2-4 could have been trillion of years. … when the first set of light arrived earth.

Separation of day from night as shown in verse 4 CLEARLY connotes the structuring of day and night. Only fools will allow themselves to be confused by this lucid expression.

You must know that the Bible is designed to be studied and not read like a mere contemporary literature.



Understandably, this may be too difficult for your brain.
Revelation 21:23
[23]And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
The sun is just a mere physical creation that reveals the light of God. That source of the stars, the life of the plants is this light. As shown by the bolded, light Himself is the lamb, Jesus. He is the source of the sun. He is the light that existed before the sun was made.

Elsewhere,
John 1:4-5
[4]In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[5]And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John 8:12
[12]Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

No doubt, He is the electromagnetic radiation that you are looking for. But, you may find this hard to grasp because your brain is only confined to time, space and matter.




. Funny how atheists pick on the most inconsequential of the limitation of their understanding to pose a foundation for their deluded comfort zone.

The word Rest as used in Genesis 1 (verse 2 and 3) is shâbath from where they got sabbath from. IT PRIMARILY MEANS CEASE . In other words, God ceased from His creation of heaven and earth. He had finished it!

Boy!



See, God created the earth perfect.

Genesis 1:31
[31]And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Man spoiled things.

Romans 5:12
[12] Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

From the above, it is clear that death came into the world (for both living and non living creatures) because man (who was the sole authority) sinned and spoiled things.
Hence, all you see as unintelligent design, from deceases to the likes are from man. The Bible is vindicated on that regards. Except you'll delude yourself further.

As for the last paragraph,
"The existence of vestigial organs in many species, including the human species, is hardly evidence for design; for they have no discernable function ".
It is so stupid that an atheist base such a belief on the limitation of his discernment without any incontrovertible proof of the redundance of the organ in question.

As for the extinction of animals, it really doesn't make any noteworthy point as God is not the one living on earth. He only created them and committed them to man as caretaker.

Its not easy to be foolish though.





The Bible answers on the structuring of creation. It may not be written with a scientific purpose or laced with scientific jargons, but contains answers that suffices for providing answers where science is limited.
For a book written before the birth of science to provide certain scientifically accurate answers as to how man is made from dust and decays into dust, how that there are billions of species of birds, animals and fishes, how that there are waters in the firmaments and on earth and evaporation takes place, etc, it shows that it should be considered.

Why don't you tackle the writings of Hinduism, Buddhism, African traditionalism and the likes, they are simply not as accurate as the Bible.
You don't consider debating their stances. Yet, you engage in rational rigour to fault the Bible without success. That goes to show how much insecure you are, trying to give yourselves strong basis to encourage your delusion.

The Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, contains the Truth when correctly interpreted.

God bless u sir.