In the book of Exodus, the Bible says God killed all the first born in Egypt, like a full country. Pls can anyone tell me why God didn't just kill Pharaoh instead of murdering thousands of innocent people, even kids. And why we should celebrate such an act. If such was replicated in present time would we celebrate it?

urchcoded:
In the book of Exodus, the Bible says God killed all the first born in Egypt, like a full country. Pls can anyone tell me why God didn't just kill Pharaoh instead of murdering thousands of innocent people, even kids. And why we should celebrate such an act. If such was replicated in present time would we celebrate it?

It's just like saying why didn't God just destroy satan immediately when he rebelled. God acts in His sovereignty, no one can query or question Him.

judedwriter:


It's just like saying why didn't God just destroy satan immediately when he rebelled. God acts in His sovereignty, no one can query or question Him.

God never said he loved devil. But he loves humans. Thanks for the enlightenment tho

Here..

It's attached to Hebrew numerology. The 7 wonders wouldn't have been completed without the death of those babies.. If you pay attention to the sephirot you would understand...
But at the end, I prefer to identify as an agnostic...

GOVERNMENTBOY20:
It's attached to Hebrew numerology. The 7 wonders wouldn't have been completed without the death of those babies.. If you pay attention to the sephirot you would understand...
But at the end, I prefer to identify as an agnostic...

Hahaha. Someone like you could even pity the devil.

I don't think most of the firstborns were babies.
A good number could've been youths or married.

mrZENographer:


Hahaha. Someone like you could even pity the devil.
.

pity the the devil? What has my post got to do with pitying the devil? You seem to be either mischievous or lack proper expressive points with this post.

Anyways, I relate more with the devil. Too many dumb people

GOVERNMENTBOY20:
pity the the devil? What has my post got to do with pitying the devil? You seem to be either mischievous or lack proper expressive points with this post.

Anyways, I relate more with the devil. Too many dumb people

Because you said all the firstborns were babies.
Implying that God loves to kill the innocent, as some unbelievers like to put it

mrZENographer:


Because you said all the firstborns were babies.
Implying that God loves to kill the innocent, as some unbelievers like to put it

are they not innocent? What was dia crime

mrZENographer:


Hahaha. Someone like you could even pity the devil.

I don't think most of the firstborns were babies.
A good number could've been youths or married.

and a lot of Dem would definitely have been babies too. And u mean d youths deserved to die just like dat

urchcoded:
In the book of Exodus, the Bible says God killed all the first born in Egypt, like a full country. Pls can anyone tell me why God didn't just kill Pharaoh instead of murdering thousands of innocent people, even kids. And why we should celebrate such an act. If such was replicated in present time would we celebrate it?

Where did you read that God was the one who killed them? Have you read the Bible before? I mean the bible, not just a story there or a book. The whole Bible before?

Almost all of it. But what's ur point God didn't kill Dem?

judedwriter:


It's just like saying why didn't God just destroy satan immediately when he rebelled. God acts in His sovereignty, no one can query or question Him.

Exactly, you are right on point.

urchcoded:
and a lot of Dem would definitely have been babies too. And u mean d youths deserved to die just like dat

You see. That's why I said what I said earlier.

Well whether there are babies that died, which definitely there would've been a good proportion. Babies would still make heaven because they neither know good or evil. They cannot be judged.

hupernikao:


Where did you read that God was the one who killed them? Have you read the Bible before? I mean the bible, not just a story there or a book. The whole Bible before?

Oh pls tell me who killed Dem.

urchcoded:


Oh pls tell me who killed Dem.

First show me here where you read that it was God who killed the, Quote it here , then we can discuss. When you discuss scriptures, always quote it so that we know you know where it is written and you have read it yourself, not just hear say.

Also, you havent answered my questions:
Have you read the Bible before? I mean the bible, not just a story there or a book. The whole Bible before?

hupernikao:


First show me here where you read that it was God who killed the, Quote it here , then we can discuss. When you discuss scriptures, always quote it so that we know you know where it is written and you have read it yourself, not just hear say.

Also, you havent answered my questions:
Have you read the Bible before? I mean the bible, not just a story there or a book. The whole Bible before?

Exodus 12:29 New International Version (NIV)
29 At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well.

I have read the whole of the new testament and more Dan half of the old testament purposefully sir.

urchcoded:


Exodus 12:29 New International Version (NIV)
29 At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well.

I have read the whole of the new testament and more Dan half of the old testament purposefully sir.

Okay, i will submit my input later today.

urchcoded:


Exodus 12:29 New International Version (NIV)
29 At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well.

I have read the whole of the new testament and more Dan half of the old testament purposefully sir.

I have read the whole of the new testament and more Dan half of the old testament purposefully sir.

The whole Bible is important sir, that is how we can have full grasp and interpretation. Reading part will imply half truth, partial knowledge. You may also consider further study by reading the whole OT and NT (again).

Exodus 12:29 New International Version (NIV)
29 At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well.

Great.

Now, when we see an event in the Bible (especially in the OT), our final authority and explanation must be seen as/in this.

- We must always check Jesus' explanation/commentary of that very events first. He will be the light to explain the actors/actions/essence. That is God in humanity.
- If Jesus didnt comment on such, we must seek explanation in the Epistles' teaching/commentary of the events. That is the teaching for/of the Church of Jesus, His body.

Most times, this will solve the puzzles for us and set us on right path of proper bible interpretation. The epistles are discoveries of the scriptures (OT mysteries), answers are found there. I will look at how epistles explain God, Angels, Earth, Man, Humanity etc to take my conclusion on OT events. OT are clouded and encoded, the reason Jesus referred to it as mysteries, same as Paul, Mysteries implies things that need explanation, the solution to mysteries is revelation, an unveiling, hence, the NT (more importantly, the epistles) unveils the OT to us.

And this must be consistent in explaining any scriptural text. The bible itself is a book explaining Christ alone. It doesnt have another story, only one singular story and that is salvation in Christ Jesus. Hence all interpretation must find a destination in this. God's revelation to man from Genesis till Revelation is Christ. So in interpreting the OT especially, we can only unraveled it when we see it in the light of Christ. An example is:

Proverbs 18:10
10 The name of the Lord is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe.

As direct as this scripture is, you must see it fulfilled in Christ. It is a prophecy about Christ, not speaking about anyother.
Observe,he said A name that saves, a name called strong tower, a place of refuge, or salvation.

I must first understand NT to appreciate this. See NT commentary about Christ:
Philippians 2:9-11
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Every knee bow to the name, that is authority, a man in that name is under the authority of Christ, that is a place of safety, presevation.

Romans 10:11-15
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Call will implies to approach, to reach out to, as Solomon put it, to run to.

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

There is no name given to save except the name of Jesus.
That is the name that saves, that is was Solomon was making us to see.

Luke 24:47
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

So, you wont read, a name that saved in OT and be finding answers, the OT will present to you types and shadows, shades of explanation in prophecies about God's action in Christ. NT will give you a clear explanation and doctrine of it.

For instance again. Genesis told us Abel offering (ram) was accepted unto God. and that is why God accepted him. This is type and shadow of Christ offering. There is no such ram offering that can take away sin. No such offering can declare a man righteous.

The Hebrews writer explain this to us in Hebrews 11.
Firstly he called Abel response to Gods word as faith. So, we see that faith was involved, not just ram. Secondly, he says Abel was declared righteous. There is only one offering that perfected man to be declared righteous, that offering is Jesus. That is why the Hebrew writer, explained that all their obedience and faith couldn't be perfect until Christ was offered. He is the perfect sacrifice for sin.

2 Corinthians 5:21
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Romans 8:3-4
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

He is our righteousness. The righteousness of Abraham, Abel, Moses, Isaac etc. You cant explain God's righteousness and acceptability of man by God outside Christ offering for sin. The Hebrew writer did a very good job on that explaining all the offerings in OT as shadows of the reality (Christ).

Hebrews 10:1-12
10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

He is the ram, the sin offering of God to bring man's righteousness.


NOW, LETS CONSIDER THE QUESTION AT HAND
Why God didn't just kill Pharaoh instead of murdering thousands of innocent people, even kids? Referring to Exodus 12:29

Note that we will do this study together. If you are truly looking for answers, we can study to reach the conclusion together.

Exodus 12:29
Exodus 12:29 King James Version (KJV)
29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.

We have one direct commentary on this event in the Epistles. Though we have indirect verses linked, e.g. Jesus spoke about Passover, Paul did also which are directly talking about part of the activities that led to this event.

But let us focus on the one direct commentaries:

Hebrews 11:27-29 King James Version (KJV)
27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

Hebrews 11:27-29 New International Version
28 By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.

It is obvious the writer of Hebrews was speaking about the same events looking at verse 27,29. Spoke about Moses.

In verse 28
We saw Moses actions in that event and it is described as Faith. faith in what? His actions of keeping the Passover and sprinkling of Blood is recorded as an act of Faith. You wont see that in the OT. Infact the usage of the word FAITH (as faith) occurred just about 2 times in the whole OT.
Moses action here are that he believe God's word and acted on it and that is called faith.

Hebrews 11:6
6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

Hence, we can see two things first!
- Moses Actions
- God's Instructions to Moses

CONTINUE IN NEXT POST BELOW

READ EARLIER (BEGINNING) POST ABOVE

God instructed Moses to carry out the Passover/sprinkling of Blood activities. To what intent? To save

Heb 11:28 ...so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch
The word "touch" here is from the Greek word thigganō, it means to handle violently, to injure.

Hence, God's action was to save, to save he gave them a sign which which represent his words, ANYONE obeying, his that salvation is sure.
Let me ask you! If an Egyptian firstborn decided to take cover or stay under the house with blood covering, would he has been saved? sure he would. the saving power of God was seen in the provision of the covering, and anyone who take cover in it will be save.

Proverbs 18:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 The name of the Lord is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe.

Think the other way. If an Israelite have refused to stay under the cover and stay with an Egyptian, would such have been saved? This will be absolute rejection of God's word, hence he would have been consumed by the destroyer.

Now, taking it closer. We have seen Moses actions, we have seen God's action here at least to an extent on where are are currently on the study.

Hebrews 11:28
28 By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.

So,
1. Moses and Israelites acted in faith >> obeying God's instructions
2. God provided a way out via the Passover/Sprinkling of blood

Now we have another entity mentioned in this verse, which is what we want to uncovered. THE DESTROYER.

WHO IS THE DESTROYER/DESTROY
This is how the original reads
πίστει πεποίηκεν τὸ πάσχα καὶ τὴν πρόσχυσιν τοῦ αἵματος ἵνα μὴ ὁ ὀλοθρεύων τὰ πρωτότοκα θίγῃ αὐτῶν

Word Study: DESTROYER
The word ὀλοθρεύων translated in english as destroyer/destroy is the Greek word olothreuō, simply translated to destroy, to destroy utterly. Used only once in the NT writings (Heb 11;28). It is a verb, We can look at the usage of its noun in the scriptures for now clues.

The noun of olothreuō is olothreutēs, used also once in the Greek text of the scripture. Coincidentally was used for almost the same issue, same people, similar events.

1 Corinthians 10:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
Quoting from several activities of the Israelite against God in Exodus, Numbers.

So, we have two cases. OT used the Lord, NT used the destroyer? It is important we seek out the reasons for this usage.

1. Is God a Destroyer/Can God Causes Destruction?

Let us look at what the Bible says about God. Dont forget Jesus commentaries/epistles teaching are primarily for a believer (the church). That is what was written to you (epistles), OT was written for our learning not to us (written to the Jews Fathers)

Romans 15:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

1 Corinthians 10:10-11 King James Version (KJV)
11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Epistles are direct instructions to believers. They are God's conversation to a man in Christ. It is meant to explain the OT for you.

Jesus Commentary about God

Not selfish nor seek self or do evil, his perfection is in his love for everyone
Matthew 5:43-45
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

So, we see what Jesus said we should copy in God, Love for all.

He called Him a Good God
Matthew 19:17
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Paul's commentary about God

God character is love, we are asked to imitate him.
Ephesians 5:1-2
1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

Called death enemy of God, You dont seek help from enemy, you dont help out such.
1 Corinthians 15:26
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
This shows you that God wont use death as death is not his tool, it is his enemy. Hence when you see death, dont ascribe it to God.
The word destroyed here is translated from "katargeō" it means to do away with, to render powerless, not to kill, God wont use a tool he doesnt have.

John's Commentary
He is light No Darkness in Him (Death is darkness, destruction is)
1 John 1:5
And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. [5] This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.


James Commentary about God
James 1:17
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

He said God only has good gifts and perfect ones. Not evil gifts, or semi evil, or borrowed evil gift. All is good.
He said God is Father of lights, which means, the only thing you can find in God is light. no darkness at all.
The light doesnt vary (variableness), doesn't cast shadows. A like with such attribute where you cant see a shadow must be all light. That is who God is.

The above commentaries an more in the Bible will let you see God in new light. Some say the God of OT is very hard but he is merciful in NT. Wrong expression, wrong reading of the scripture. God CANNOT change. He can change in character. It is human that have changed over the history that seems like God is changing. The God in OT is same in NT same character, attribute, words, purpose and essence. When you arent clear about things, dont start making conclusion and them have wrong judgement about the scriptures or God. It simply means you should do further studies. It is our revelation of God that changes, God doesnt.

2. So, Who Can The Destroyer Be If Not God.
First, note that, when a one is not used to represent someone in the NT then it cant be such. The NT never presented God or mentioned God in such light or language anywhere. Let us look at references to destroyer

John 10:10
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Speaking about the devil

1 Peter 5:8
8 Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.
Devour from same expression as destroy. Speaking about the devil.

Hebrews 2:14
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
The power to destroy (death) is owned by the devil. Note that the word destroy used for Jesus here is still the same word we saw earlier (katargeō) simply interpreted as "to render powerless", "to make useless" not destroy as in destruction (olothreuō)

So, the NT presented Satan as the destroyer, the one with the power to cause destruction. We must not see it different from this. So back to our verse

Exodus 12:29 New International Version (NIV)
29 At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well.

Then NT commentaries
Hebrews 11:28
28 By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.

1 Corinthians 10:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer

Exodus 12:23 gives us a clue, dont forget OT and mysteries (encoded) you must be able to navigate, investigate to get the facts out. The reason Paul used the word "rightly dividing the word of truth". It means it can be wrongly divided in study.

Exodus 12:23
For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

Look at that verse, it seems it presented two personality

1. The Lord will pass through to smite the Egyptians
2. And will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

So we have the Lord, we have the destroyer.

We have seen what the destroyer could be from NT. He who owns the power to destroy, power of death.

Also, see Davids Psalms
Psalms 78:49
49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.

Some translation used destroying angels or angels of destruction.
SO, we see same thing here. An angel carried out the activity.

Dont forget, OT are hidden wisdom, mysteries, to be unveiled. Hence, when navigating, i must not forget what NT, Epistles, teaches. That must be my guide.

The one who destroy here had death and destruction as tool, Epistles affirmed who uses that: The Devil. Not God.
Ask yourself, if God is a destroyer, does God need a blood or sign on a doorpost to know who are his targets? does he need a guide to move over the Israelite and identify Egyptians? No. God is omniscience, all wisdom. He needs no guidance, he is all knowing.

So, why the Blood Mark On Doorpost?

When the destruction sees the blood, he PASSedOVER.
The blood is not to identify where destruction should go but to save, preserve God's people from it. It means the destruction will come over the land of Egypt and ready to destroy all. That is how the devil works, but the blood, is a sign of redemption. A sign the destroyer cant stand. The mark of God which we see in Christ today. Paul wrote:

1 Corinthians 5:7-8
....For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us. Hence the passover activity/sprinkling of blood and shadows of what Christ will do/has done for man. The blood id upon us now, Christ blood is our mark, against the destroyer, against the hand of the evil. It is by his blood we overcame.

Colossians 1:13-14
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Hence, the devil is still the devourer, the destroyer, the one who uses death to torment. God in Christ has provide a way out, via his blood for man's salvation. As God provided a way out for man in Egypt, he has always provided a way out all through the history of humanity. The rejection of this is rejection of God and this means the rejection of his love, preservation, safety and protection. As love, preservation, safety and protection are found in God's instructions as you see in Adam, Abel, Noah, Abraham, Moses and till today but man's choice will either be found in God preservative hand or in subjection to the will of evil.

The next Question will be: Why then did Moses wrote: THE LORD did this?

I will pause for now to enable you to read my submissions first, then continue when i have your response.
I pray His Light prevails in our heart! Amen.

hupernikao:



The whole Bible is important sir, that is how we can have full grasp and interpretation. Reading part will imply half truth, partial knowledge. You may also consider further study by reading the whole OT and NT (again).




Great.

Now, when we see an event in the Bible (especially in the OT), our final authority and explanation must be seen as/in this.

- We must always check Jesus' explanation/commentary of that very events first. He will be the light to explain the actors/actions/essence. That is God in humanity.
- If Jesus didnt comment on such, we must seek explanation in the Epistles' teaching/commentary of the events. That is the teaching for/of the Church of Jesus, His body.

Most times, this will solve the puzzles for us and set us on right path of proper bible interpretation. The epistles are discoveries of the scriptures (OT mysteries), answers are found there. I will look at how epistles explain God, Angels, Earth, Man, Humanity etc to take my conclusion on OT events. OT are clouded and encoded, the reason Jesus referred to it as mysteries, same as Paul, Mysteries implies things that need explanation, the solution to mysteries is revelation, an unveiling, hence, the NT (more importantly, the epistles) unveils the OT to us.

And this must be consistent in explaining any scriptural text. The bible itself is a book explaining Christ alone. It doesnt have another story, only one singular story and that is salvation in Christ Jesus. Hence all interpretation must find a destination in this. God's revelation to man from Genesis till Revelation is Christ. So in interpreting the OT especially, we can only unraveled it when we see it in the light of Christ. An example is:

Proverbs 18:10
10 The name of the Lord is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe.

As direct as this scripture is, you must see it fulfilled in Christ. It is a prophecy about Christ, not speaking about anyother.
Observe,he said A name that saves, a name called strong tower, a place of refuge, or salvation.

I must first understand NT to appreciate this. See NT commentary about Christ:
Philippians 2:9-11
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Every knee bow to the name, that is authority, a man in that name is under the authority of Christ, that is a place of safety, presevation.

Romans 10:11-15
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Call will implies to approach, to reach out to, as Solomon put it, to run to.

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

There is no name given to save except the name of Jesus.
That is the name that saves, that is was Solomon was making us to see.

Luke 24:47
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

So, you wont read, a name that saved in OT and be finding answers, the OT will present to you types and shadows, shades of explanation in prophecies about God's action in Christ. NT will give you a clear explanation and doctrine of it.

For instance again. Genesis told us Abel offering (ram) was accepted unto God. and that is why God accepted him. This is type and shadow of Christ offering. There is no such ram offering that can take away sin. No such offering can declare a man righteous.

The Hebrews writer explain this to us in Hebrews 11.
Firstly he called Abel response to Gods word as faith. So, we see that faith was involved, not just ram. Secondly, he says Abel was declared righteous. There is only one offering that perfected man to be declared righteous, that offering is Jesus. That is why the Hebrew writer, explained that all their obedience and faith couldn't be perfect until Christ was offered. He is the perfect sacrifice for sin.

2 Corinthians 5:21
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Romans 8:3-4
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

He is our righteousness. The righteousness of Abraham, Abel, Moses, Isaac etc. You cant explain God's righteousness and acceptability of man by God outside Christ offering for sin. The Hebrew writer did a very good job on that explaining all the offerings in OT as shadows of the reality (Christ).

Hebrews 10:1-12
10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

He is the ram, the sin offering of God to bring man's righteousness.


NOW, LETS CONSIDER THE QUESTION AT HAND
Why God didn't just kill Pharaoh instead of murdering thousands of innocent people, even kids? Referring to Exodus 12:29

Note that we will do this study together. If you are truly looking for answers, we can study to reach the conclusion together.

Exodus 12:29
Exodus 12:29 King James Version (KJV)
29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.

We have one direct commentary on this event in the Epistles. Though we have indirect verses linked, e.g. Jesus spoke about Passover, Paul did also which are directly talking about part of the activities that led to this event.

But let us focus on the one direct commentaries:

Hebrews 11:27-29 King James Version (KJV)
27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

Hebrews 11:27-29 New International Version
28 By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.

It is obvious the writer of Hebrews was speaking about the same events looking at verse 27,29. Spoke about Moses.

In verse 28
We saw Moses actions in that event and it is described as Faith. faith in what? His actions of keeping the Passover and sprinkling of Blood is recorded as an act of Faith. You wont see that in the OT. Infact the usage of the word FAITH (as faith) occurred just about 2 times in the whole OT.
Moses action here are that he believe God's word and acted on it and that is called faith.

Hebrews 11:6
6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

Hence, we can see two things first!
- Moses Actions
- God's Instructions to Moses

CONTINUE IN NEXT POST BELOW

It's kinda funny how u quoted all dis scriptures and still didn't answer the question or say who killed Dem firstborns.
However the last church I was a member is a strong proponent of the christocentric nature of the Bible. I bought into d idea, but on careful examination it's faulty. using basic logic and trying not to be a sheeple follower and one who swallows anything ur pastor tells u, u would observe dat not all the events in the Bible had anything to do with Christ. Example dis one I'm still expecting u to make a valid point as regards to who killed Dem Egyptians and if it's God den why? And if it's not him who did it. I like ur exegesis tho

urchcoded:



It's kinda funny how u quoted all dis scriptures and still didn't answer the question or say who killed Dem firstborns.
However the last church I was a member is a strong proponent of the christocentric nature of the Bible. I bought into d idea, but on careful examination it's faulty. using basic logic and trying not to be a sheeple follower and one who swallows anything ur pastor tells u, u would observe dat not all the events in the Bible had anything to do with Christ. Example dis one I'm still expecting u to make a valid point as regards to who killed Dem Egyptians and if it's God den why? And if it's not him who did it. I like ur exegesis tho

Did you actually read all of the submission? If not please do, and if yes, then kindly, patiently and carefully reread as your comment isnt showing you did. Then you can comment afterwards.

hupernikao:


Did you actually read all of the submission? If not please do, and if yes, then kindly, patiently and carefully reread as your comment isnt showing you did. Then you can comment afterwards.

I like reading. I read all dat. And I can't say u answered my question. U didn't sir

urchcoded:
I like reading. I read all dat. And I can't say u answered my question. U didn't sir

You haven't done this

Did you actually read all of the submission? If not please do, and if yes, then kindly, patiently and carefully reread as your comment isnt showing you did. Then you can comment afterwards.

If you have, your comment won't be as you commented. Your response will reflect what you read there and come either as questions, further explanation or pointing out why what I wrote isn't true using the scriptures.

But your response only shows sentiment of where or how you fellowship or not. But that's not what we are discussing.

So read, what you claimed I didn't answer is glaring in the second post.

hupernikao:
READ EARLIER (BEGINNING) POST ABOVE

God instructed Moses to carry out the Passover/sprinkling of Blood activities. To what intent? To save

Heb 11:28 ...so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch
The word "touch" here is from the Greek word thigganō, it means to handle violently, to injure.

Hence, God's action was to save, to save he gave them a sign which which represent his words, ANYONE obeying, his that salvation is sure.
Let me ask you! If an Egyptian firstborn decided to take cover or stay under the house with blood covering, would he has been saved? sure he would. the saving power of God was seen in the provision of the covering, and anyone who take cover in it will be save.

Proverbs 18:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 The name of the Lord is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe.

Think the other way. If an Israelite have refused to stay under the cover and stay with an Egyptian, would such have been saved? This will be absolute rejection of God's word, hence he would have been consumed by the destroyer.

Now, taking it closer. We have seen Moses actions, we have seen God's action here at least to an extent on where are are currently on the study.

Hebrews 11:28
28 By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.

So,
1. Moses and Israelites acted in faith >> obeying God's instructions
2. God provided a way out via the Passover/Sprinkling of blood

Now we have another entity mentioned in this verse, which is what we want to uncovered. THE DESTROYER.

WHO IS THE DESTROYER/DESTROY
This is how the original reads
πίστει πεποίηκεν τὸ πάσχα καὶ τὴν πρόσχυσιν τοῦ αἵματος ἵνα μὴ ὁ ὀλοθρεύων τὰ πρωτότοκα θίγῃ αὐτῶν

Word Study: DESTROYER
The word ὀλοθρεύων translated in english as destroyer/destroy is the Greek word olothreuō, simply translated to destroy, to destroy utterly. Used only once in the NT writings (Heb 11;28). It is a verb, We can look at the usage of its noun in the scriptures for now clues.

The noun of olothreuō is olothreutēs, used also once in the Greek text of the scripture. Coincidentally was used for almost the same issue, same people, similar events.

1 Corinthians 10:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
Quoting from several activities of the Israelite against God in Exodus, Numbers.

So, we have two cases. OT used the Lord, NT used the destroyer? It is important we seek out the reasons for this usage.

1. Is God a Destroyer/Can God Causes Destruction?

Let us look at what the Bible says about God. Dont forget Jesus commentaries/epistles teaching are primarily for a believer (the church). That is what was written to you (epistles), OT was written for our learning not to us (written to the Jews Fathers)

Romans 15:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

1 Corinthians 10:10-11 King James Version (KJV)
11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Epistles are direct instructions to believers. They are God's conversation to a man in Christ. It is meant to explain the OT for you.

Jesus Commentary about God

Not selfish nor seek self or do evil, his perfection is in his love for everyone
Matthew 5:43-45
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

So, we see what Jesus said we should copy in God, Love for all.

He called Him a Good God
Matthew 19:17
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Paul's commentary about God

God character is love, we are asked to imitate him.
Ephesians 5:1-2
1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

Called death enemy of God, You dont seek help from enemy, you dont help out such.
1 Corinthians 15:26
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
This shows you that God wont use death as death is not his tool, it is his enemy. Hence when you see death, dont ascribe it to God.
The word destroyed here is translated from "katargeō" it means to do away with, to render powerless, not to kill, God wont use a tool he doesnt have.

John's Commentary
He is light No Darkness in Him (Death is darkness, destruction is)
1 John 1:5
And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. [5] This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.


James Commentary about God
James 1:17
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

He said God only has good gifts and perfect ones. Not evil gifts, or semi evil, or borrowed evil gift. All is good.
He said God is Father of lights, which means, the only thing you can find in God is light. no darkness at all.
The light doesnt vary (variableness), doesn't cast shadows. A like with such attribute where you cant see a shadow must be all light. That is who God is.

The above commentaries an more in the Bible will let you see God in new light. Some say the God of OT is very hard but he is merciful in NT. Wrong expression, wrong reading of the scripture. God CANNOT change. He can change in character. It is human that have changed over the history that seems like God is changing. The God in OT is same in NT same character, attribute, words, purpose and essence. When you arent clear about things, dont start making conclusion and them have wrong judgement about the scriptures or God. It simply means you should do further studies. It is our revelation of God that changes, God doesnt.

2. So, Who Can The Destroyer Be If Not God.
First, note that, when a one is not used to represent someone in the NT then it cant be such. The NT never presented God or mentioned God in such light or language anywhere. Let us look at references to destroyer

John 10:10
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Speaking about the devil

1 Peter 5:8
8 Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.
Devour from same expression as destroy. Speaking about the devil.

Hebrews 2:14
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
The power to destroy (death) is owned by the devil. Note that the word destroy used for Jesus here is still the same word we saw earlier (katargeō) simply interpreted as "to render powerless", "to make useless" not destroy as in destruction (olothreuō)

So, the NT presented Satan as the destroyer, the one with the power to cause destruction. We must not see it different from this. So back to our verse



Then NT commentaries
Hebrews 11:28
28 By faith he kept the Passover and the application of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.

1 Corinthians 10:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer

Exodus 12:23 gives us a clue, dont forget OT and mysteries (encoded) you must be able to navigate, investigate to get the facts out. The reason Paul used the word "rightly dividing the word of truth". It means it can be wrongly divided in study.

Exodus 12:23
For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

Look at that verse, it seems it presented two personality

1. The Lord will pass through to smite the Egyptians
2. And will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

So we have the Lord, we have the destroyer.

We have seen what the destroyer could be from NT. He who owns the power to destroy, power of death.

Also, see Davids Psalms
Psalms 78:49
49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.

Some translation used destroying angels or angels of destruction.
SO, we see same thing here. An angel carried out the activity.

Dont forget, OT are hidden wisdom, mysteries, to be unveiled. Hence, when navigating, i must not forget what NT, Epistles, teaches. That must be my guide.

The one who destroy here had death and destruction as tool, Epistles affirmed who uses that: The Devil. Not God.
Ask yourself, if God is a destroyer, does God need a blood or sign on a doorpost to know who are his targets? does he need a guide to move over the Israelite and identify Egyptians? No. God is omniscience, all wisdom. He needs no guidance, he is all knowing.

So, why the Blood Mark On Doorpost?

When the destruction sees the blood, he PASSedOVER.
The blood is not to identify where destruction should go but to save, preserve God's people from it. It means the destruction will come over the land of Egypt and ready to destroy all. That is how the devil works, but the blood, is a sign of redemption. A sign the destroyer cant stand. The mark of God which we see in Christ today. Paul wrote:

1 Corinthians 5:7-8
....For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us. Hence the passover activity/sprinkling of blood and shadows of what Christ will do/has done for man. The blood id upon us now, Christ blood is our mark, against the destroyer, against the hand of the evil. It is by his blood we overcame.

Colossians 1:13-14
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Hence, the devil is still the devourer, the destroyer, the one who uses death to torment. God in Christ has provide a way out, via his blood for man's salvation. As God provided a way out for man in Egypt, he has always provided a way out all through the history of humanity. The rejection of this is rejection of God and this means the rejection of his love, preservation, safety and protection. As love, preservation, safety and protection are found in God's instructions as you see in Adam, Abel, Noah, Abraham, Moses and till today but man's choice will either be found in God preservative hand or in subjection to the will of evil.

The next Question will be: Why then did Moses wrote: THE LORD did this?

I will pause for now to enable you to read my submissions first, then continue when i have your response.
I pray His Light prevails in our heart! Amen.

Ok I just read dis part. Can't u see how u are running around looking for back up.
Ok go ahead and answer ur question, why did Moses write d Lord. Lemme even give u a hint. Go and search Greek language and look for a single account where Lord has been translated as the devil den come back hia and tell me emphatically dat devil killed d first borns of Egypt and drowned soldiers in the red Sea.

urchcoded:
I like reading. I read all dat. And I can't say u answered my question. U didn't sir

I pointed you to epistles explanation of the verse
you seek answers, Hebrews 11:28 explained, uses destroyer,. I refered you to another place of similar incidence explained again in epistles 1 Corinthians 10:8-10, used destroyer not God.

Also explained to you why you should take your explanation from Jesus and epistles hence the reason for those verses.

The investigation in those verses I pointed you to is to find out who is called the destroyer which was well explained also using several scriptures above.
And then I pointed out the destroyer yet you said your question wasn't answered?

It's either you didn't read carefully Sir or you actually weren't really ready for study truthfully, I will assume the former, hence the reason I asked you to reread. Responses always reflect the heart. I await your queries or response.

urchcoded:


Ok I just read dis part. Can't u see how u are running around looking for back up.
Ok go ahead and answer ur question, why did Moses write d Lord. Lemme even give u a hint. Go and search Greek language and look for a single account where Lord has been translated as the devil den come back hia and tell me emphatically dat devil killed d first borns of Egypt and drowned soldiers in the red Sea.

Firstly, you should apologize for asking questions and not reading patiently the submission given to help you out. It's a bad trait. Whether you support an issue or now, have an attitude of reading and studying the submission extensively before commenting. Don't be in a rush to respond. It will put you in poor light and expose as you did this afternoon. I believe this will change this attitude.

Secondly, you wrote this:

Can't u see how u are running around looking for back up.

You see in Bible study, it's not called running around looking for, it's called search the scriptures, investigating events and teachings, explaining scriptures with scriptures. That is the legacy we have in the bible, Jesus did same (Luke 24:23-26,44-46), Hebrews is full of such explanations, Paul did the same, Stephen, Peter. Who am I to do otherwise. The whole of the scriptures are well backed up with Moses writings (as the first set of scriptures). So sorry if you aren't used to that, but that is the Bible way. Not relying on sense knowledge or assumptions but what was written, how it was written and explained.

Thirdly

Lemme even give u a hint. Go and search Greek language and look for a single account where Lord has been translated as the devil den come back hia and tell me emphatically dat devil killed d first borns of Egypt and drowned soldiers in the red Sea

I am surprised to know now that you do know your answers, so why ask the question? From a truthfully heart? Or just a wondering heart?

I didn't write those because I want to show scriptures or knowledge, or or start arguing with the brick. I did that because I felt you wanted a open hearted discussion. I still assume you do.

So I am waiting for your own explanation as you seems to have another angle. Kindly present it here intelligently, we can examine it line by line or better still examine what I wrote line by line and discuss it. Dropping snippet is not a way to learn or express your claim. Proper bible study is line upon line. I await your response.

urchcoded:
In the book of Exodus, the Bible says God killed all the first born in Egypt, like a full country. Pls can anyone tell me why God didn't just kill Pharaoh instead of murdering thousands of innocent people, even kids. And why we should celebrate such an act. If such was replicated in present time would we celebrate it?

Because God never promised to Kill Pharoah.

21 While Moses was traveling back to Egypt, the Lord spoke to him, “When you talk to Pharaoh remember to show him all the miracles that I have given you the power to do. But I will cause Pharaoh to be very stubborn. He will not let the people go.
22 Then you should say to Pharaoh, ‘This is what the Lord says: Israel is my firstborn son.
23 And I am telling you to let my son go and worship me. If you refuse to let Israel go, then I will kill your firstborn son.’” - Exodus 4 vs 21 - 23

A firstborn son typically refers to one individual in a family but in this case, the term is used in reference to a whole nation of people, a first indication that it is meant to be figuratively processed. In that passage, anyone able to see could tell that God described the people of Israel as having the same importance that a firstborn son would have to the likes of Pharaoh whose firstborn son He, God, threatened.

Last seen July 8

Please if you're still interested in knowing the answer let me know!

When God warned that he'll bring about a plague of hailstones on the fields, many Egyptians brought in their servants and livestock
Why did they not act wise and save their sons by releasing the Israelites
The entire nation of Egypt was guilty of not freeing the Israelites, not just Pharoah
Remember that it was his men that talked to him on why they allow their slaves to go, then they attacked and met death at the Red Sea