9inches:
You are creating a straw man argument. And yes you are afraid to answer the question, so you easily find a way dismiss it.
The question is: If I gave you my sister's diary which she had written "I make sure I eat 3 square meals a day". And later on, I told you orally that my sister eats 5 times a day, is there any contradiction in both accounts?

It is heretic to suggest Paul was speaking into the future when he had no idea the New Testament would be included in the Scripture. He was definitely talking about the already existing Scripture. I don't know where you are receiving this skewed knowledge of the bible. I can bet you won't find any article or commentary anywhere that disputes the fact that Paul was not talking about the New Testament. I challenge you to find one.

You're being willfully ignorant. There's no commentary you can cite to support your point. Because you are misinterpreting the Scripture.

My comment said "The scripture as mentioned means the Old Testament."

If they are all same, Paul would not have asked them to hold on to both. The fact that he said "by Word" and "by letter" clearly shows how none of the two versions should be discarded. Yet, Pentecostals picked the letter version and discarded the worded version. Keep reading 2 Thessalonians 2:15 until your eyes are cleared.

Martin Luther makes a pertinent observation in the sixteenth chapter of his Commentary on St. John "We are obliged to yield many things to the papists (Catholics), that they possess the Word of God which we received from them, otherwise we should have known nothing at all about it."

This is a myth that always comes up but is simple to answer. At the Council of Rome in 382, the Church decided upon a canon of 46 Old Testament books and 27 in the New Testament. This decision was ratified by the councils at Hippo (393), Carthage (397, 419), II Nicea (787), Florence (1442), and Trent (1546).

Further, if Catholics added the deuterocanonical books in 1546, then Martin Luther beat us to the punch: He included them in his first German translation, published the Council of Trent. They can also be found in the first King James Version (1611) and in the first Bible ever printed, the Guttenberg Bible (a century before Trent). In fact, these books were included in almost every Bible until the Edinburgh Committee of the British Foreign Bible Society excised them in 1825. It is historically demonstrable that Catholics did not add the books, Protestants took them out.

brocab:
Let us read to see who is making nonfactual sweeping statements about the Catholic Church-why did Martin Luther turn against the Catholic Church, if indulgence and Purgatory-were the truth found in the manuscripts written by the apostles?
Why did Luther regarded this as a form of corruption-by his time, indulgences had evolved into payments that were said to reduce punishment for sins "Luther believed that such practices only interfered with genuine repentance and discouraged people from giving to the poor.
{1 Timothy 6:5} Men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.
From such withdraw yourself.

brocab:
The Catholic Church demanded full authority, turned against Martin Luther, over unbiblcal literature, the Catholic's taught more money will save a multitude from going to hell, less money will put a multitude in Purgatory hell, until someone pays the price to set you free.
The fact is the Catholic Church claims to be the One True Church of the Apostles, and Facts do change, "but the Word of God doesn't change. And the Word of God doesn't mention Peter spent time in Rome nor did the apostles dare to practice Christianity with paganism..

solite3:
paul quoted the new testament and called it scriptures. I don't know what you are talking about.

9inches:
.....since over 8 Books including Revelation were yet to be written as at then.

solite3:
paul quoted the new testament and called it scriptures. I don't know what you are talking about.

9inches:
.....since over 8 Books including Revelation were yet to be written as at then.

[quote author=9inches post=65906897]

Of course, Paul quoted Luke (1 Timothy 5:18); about 13 books of the New Testament, including Luke, have been written before Paul's letter to Timothy. It's not confusing at all.

My comment said "The scripture as mentioned means the Old Testament."

1. The Holy Scripture is literally the Sacred Scripture.

2. In 2 Timothy 3:14-15, verse 14 is different from verse 15.

(a) 2 Tim 3:14 - "But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom[a] you learned it".
He was pressing Timothy to continue what he had learned and firmly believed about Christ, knowing he learned it from credible people like Paul.

b) 2 Tim 3:15 - "and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus."

Catholics believe in the Gift o' the holy spirit, I am one and I think you've been wrongly informed...you need to enlighten yourself a bit more. I can attend any church that preaches the word of God through the holy spirit and not to satisfy man...the only real advantage of being a catholic is you develop your spirituality yourself and the probability o' going church to church is slimmer. . .christianity is one.



My humble opinion...no offence meant

shadeyinka:

The only problem other Christians have with the Catholic Church are some of the scripturally unsupported traditions such as
1. Veneration of Mary
2. Veneration of the Saints
3. Bowing/Worshiping before Images
4. Lack of Emphasis on "Being Born Again" as a perquisite for Salvation instead, being a faithful member of the Catholic church is preached
5. Forced Celibacy of the Priesthood etc


Most of these traditions cannot be traced to either Jesus or His direct Apostles.

Dnaz:

Nothing like forced celibacy and born again means baptism not Alter calls
And for the others we don't care if its scriptural or not. The Holy spirit will not lead the church into error. The gates of hell will never prevail

shadeyinka:


Forced celibacy in the sense that to become a priest, you have to be celibate. Can a married man become a Catholic priest?

Born Again is NOT baptism!
To be Born Again is to "specifically" come to Jesus for the Salvation of ones Soul through Christ's sacrifice on the Cross.

The Thief on the Right hand of Christ on the Cross was Born Again BUT was not Baptized.

A person doesn't get born again through Alter Calls: but through this person asking Christ Jesus

"I know that I am a sinner...write my name in the Book of life. I promise to live the rest of my life for You.."

Baptism is a public confession before the church of Christ as a testament that you will follow Him and such live a new life.

With the heart, a man believes but with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Jesus said "How much more your Father in Heaven who will give the Holy Spirit to them who ASK of Him"

At salvation, you are given the Seal of God: the Holy Spirit.

Baptism is not Salvation (Born Again)


The Holy Spirit will not lead the church into error but are we sure some of these traditions are from Him?

Dnaz:

Born again is to be born of water and spirit. Which is baptism . this is the reason Christ was baptised to show us we must start our Christains life with baptism. That is the reason Christ told the disciples to baptise everyone who believes in the name of the Trinity, he did not tell them " tell them to ask me into their lives with their mouth" the disciples didn't teach that nonsense either and the tradition of the Apostles was to baptise after repentance. That is the faith of the Church that is the faith of the Apostles and so we believe in baptism as the beginning of our Christains Journey.
Christ promised that the gates of hell will not prevail over his church and that he ll be with us until the end of time. We rest our faith on that and the Bible says that the Church not the bible is the pillar and bulwark of truth. 1tim 3:15

Dnaz:

Nothing like forced celibacy and born again means baptism not Alter calls
And for the others we don't care if its scriptural or not. The Holy spirit will not lead the church into error. The gates of hell will never prevail

shadeyinka:

You seem not to know what the Church of God is. The church is not a denomination or a system of organisation of Christians. The church is the assembly of those who are saved by the Blood of Christ.

Remember what Jesus said: "wherever two or more of you shall gather, there I will be". Roman Catholic church is just ONE of the denominations within the Church of Christ. BTW, I know several Catholics who are born again (in the proper sense). A catholic getting Born Again doesn't have to leave the Catholic church unless he is convinced otherwise.

If the thief on the right hand of Jesus is Born Again, what do you think being born of the water and the Spirit mean?

The Bible says, " grieve not the Holy Spirit, by whom you are sealed till the day of redemption.". Can you show me how to receive the Holy Spirit as a seal through Baptism?

Jesus said "How much more your heavenly Father who will give the Holy Spirit to them who ASK of Him". Salvation is by asking not doing.

Jesus was baptized (with the baptism of Repentance of John) to fulfill all righteousness.

By grace you have been saved through faith (not baptism), it is not of your selves...not of works (baptism is works) so that no man shall boast.

Jesus explained how to be born again by tieing it with the serpent in the wilderness: do you understand Jesus message?

shadeyinka:

You seem not to know what the Church of God is. The church is not a denomination or a system of organisation of Christians. The church is the assembly of those who are saved by the Blood of Christ.

Remember what Jesus said: "wherever two or more of you shall gather, there I will be". Roman Catholic church is just ONE of the denominations within the Church of Christ. BTW, I know several Catholics who are born again (in the proper sense). A catholic getting Born Again doesn't have to leave the Catholic church unless he is convinced otherwise.

If the thief on the right hand of Jesus is Born Again, what do you think being born of the water and the Spirit mean?

The Bible says, " grieve not the Holy Spirit, by whom you are sealed till the day of redemption.". Can you show me how to receive the Holy Spirit as a seal through Baptism?

Jesus said "How much more your heavenly Father who will give the Holy Spirit to them who ASK of Him". Salvation is by asking not doing.

Jesus was baptized (with the baptism of Repentance of John) to fulfill all righteousness.

By grace you have been saved through faith (not baptism), it is not of your selves...not of works (baptism is works) so that no man shall boast.

Jesus explained how to be born again by tieing it with the serpent in the wilderness: do you understand Jesus message?

solite3:
there is nothing like born again catholic or the word bornagain has lost its meaning.
If you talk of born again catholic then also talk of born again Moslems, born again Hindu, born again Jehovah witness, bornagain, sabath, bornagain African traditional worshipper, bornagain Buddhist bornagain Rastafarian, bornagain satanist, bornagain luciferian etc
Bornagain has suffered. Everybody wants to associate themselves with Christianity but rejects the narrow door.

solite3:
Look at your words...Now the question is was it only the old testament that Paul refers to as scriptures

solite3:
except you don't know what scripture means. Yes the scripture is sufficient because it is perfect.

9inches:
The scripture as mentioned means the Old Testament.

solite3:
so scripture means old testament. Do you know what testament mean? Ignorance. Why the scriptures itself defines what it mean.

9inches:
My comment said "The scripture as mentioned means the Old Testament."

solite3:
paul quoted the new testament and called it scriptures. I don't know what you are talking about.

solite3:
was Paul teaching human sacred tradition or the word of God? Was Paul's teachings not inspired by the holy Spirit? or is Paul writing not sacred?

solite3:
Paul didn't tell you which scripture he only said timothy had known the scriptures ^verse15. paul's statement is All Scriptures are inspired by God and can bring perfection. ^verse16

9inches:

One never could "buy" indulgences. The financial scandal surrounding indulgences, the scandal that gave Martin Luther an excuse for his heterodoxy, involved alms—indulgences in which the giving of alms to some charitable fund or foundation was used as the occasion to grant the indulgence. There was no outright selling of indulgences.



I have already shown you how to search for any question on Catholic teachings. Everything you need to know is there.
1. https://www.catholic.com/
2. http://www.ewtn.com/search.asp


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpdUZ3kWjM8

solite3:
there is nothing like born again catholic or the word bornagain has lost its meaning.
If you talk of born again catholic then also talk of born again Moslems, born again Hindu, born again Jehovah witness, bornagain, sabath, bornagain African traditional worshipper, bornagain Buddhist bornagain Rastafarian, bornagain satanist, bornagain luciferian etc
Bornagain has suffered. Everybody wants to associate themselves with Christianity but rejects the narrow door.

Dnaz:

Born again is baptism
Baptism is received through faith and not of works
Jesus Explained that to be born again is to be born of water and spirit.
The thief in the Cross only asked for forgiveness and was forgiven. How he is saved without baptism is left for God.

Dnaz:

But Baptism saves u as the Bible Clearly says in

Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
1 Peter 3:21
All the Apostles did baptise even Paul, he. Didn't call it works but understood what it meant to be baptised into Christ. If Baptism was works, Paul will not Advocate it, Peter will not say it saves us

Act 10:42
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy

shadeyinka:

Check again!
The thief on the cross never asked for forgiveness!
He asked "remember me when you get to your kingdom".
Which is like asking " write my name in the book of life or make me a candidate of heaven..". And Jesus said, today today, you will be with me in Paradise. The thief was born again simply because he requested/ asked for the free gift of eternal life.




Peter knew that some of you will mix this scripture up and that is why he didn't stop at "Baptism, which now saves you" BUT "the answer of a qood conscience to God".

What does that mean?
It means we are not saved through water baptism but " a Baptism which has nothing to do with water- that produces answer of a good/clean conscience/spirit".
Emphasis are mine because I have to beak it down for your understanding.

I believe you have heard of "Baptism of the Holy Spirit"..this is what makes us to say to God " Abba Father". This is what makes you born again.

Apart from the scripture 1Pt3:21 you quoted (which of course is subject to interpretations,) can you find a similar scripture?

Baptism is a rite performed only for the one who is (already) Born Again (who has believed) not the other way round. The Etopian Eunuch and Paul are examples.





Water Baptism is just an outward /physical reflection of what has taken place in the Spirit.

I'm I saying Water Baptism is not relevant or important? Certainly NOT! Water baptism is like the Ordinance of the Holy Communion. What saves you is Gods Holy Spirit giving you an answer of a good question because you have believed.

Like I said earlier
Being Born Again is NOT responding to an alter call. There are several who came out for alter calls that are not born again.
Being Born Again is NOT water baptism. Millions have been baptised with water yet on their way to hell.

I believe that even the Catholic church Fathers knew this enough to create room for Indulgences, Prayer for the dead, Purgatory etc. If someone is truly Water Baptized, why does he need all these?

Dnaz:

Jesus Clearly said that Born again is to be born of WATER and SPIRIT. U ve decided to Accept the Spirit and throw the water out. U have relegated baptism to Works Something the Apostles and the Church Fathers didn't do. U fell into the error of martin Luther. Paul distinguishes baptism from works and asserts that it partakes in our salvation.

he saved us, not because of deeds done by us in righteousness, but in virtue of his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit,
Titus 3:5
Gods mercy, the washing of regeneration (which is Water baptism) and renewal in the holy spirit( baptism of the Holy spirit)
Paul also States the unity we have in Christ when we are baptised into Christ


Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
Romans 6:3

We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:4

If baptism was works and why will Paul Advocate it and the Apostles uphold it. Why did Christ include it in the great Commission

Once Again. Born again is BAPTISM

Tit3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

Rom6:1-
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin.

Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more.

this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin.

Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of

Let me ask you (just common sense) an application of bible doctrine

shadeyinka:

I asked you a question which you didn't touch...I don't know why?

How does a person get born of water?
How does a person get born of the spirit?

John 3:
Explains how to get born again.
The key to understanding it is to look at Numbers 21:8-

The lesson there is that "If anyone believes in Gods solution" such would not die of snake bite.

Jesus said,

Just as Moses raised up the Serpent in the Wilderness, so also the Son of Man shall be lifted up..."If anyone believes in Gods solution" (atonement of sin through Christs blood) such would not die of sin nature...but have eternal life (with God).

The Bible says:
Eph2:8
By grace you have been saved through Faith it is not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.

Let's look at these scriptures you quote


So, who saved us through the washing of regeneration?
Christ or the Priest/Pastor. Verse 6 actually confirms this. It is the Baptism of Christ (spiritual) not of water

If this was Christ washing us, my dear, it is not water baptism



Note:
I said, Water Baptism is meant only for those who have received the spiritual Baptism (born again). Except you can find a scripture in discord with this.

Hence, the book of Romans 6:1- is speaking of those who were already saved.

The bolded will confirm to you that Water baptism isnt what does anything but a testimony before the Church.

If you are to recon yourself as dead after baptism, does it not connote that you are not yet dead (to sin) but a symbolic representation of the fact that you should live your life like one dead to sin?

Look at the word likeness of His death. Is this not symbolic? Unlike when Paul said "I have been Crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live...yet not I..the life I live in the flesh, I live by faith...".

.

Let's say I am on a plane flight and I preached to the atheist beside my seat and he believed and said " Lord Jesus, I know that I have been rebellious and far away from you, I believe you died on the cross for my sin..please write my name in the book of life...".

If the plane crashes before we reach our destination, will such a man be saved?

If he will be saved, does it not negate that "Water Baptism is Salvation/BornAgain?"

brocab:
Since it's video's you are seeking, then lets start with a probate between Catholicism and protestant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE915fBzB20
[color=#000099]

quote author=9inches post=65931503]





Verses of the bible are interpreted in contextually. So, which verse are you talking about?

In 2 Tim 3:14, Timothy is initially exhorted to hold to the oral teachings (the traditions) that he received from apostle Paul. This echoes Paul’s reminder of the value of oral tradition in these previous verses:

(1.) 2 Tim 1:13, "Follow the pattern of the sound words that you have heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus."
(2.) 2 Tim 2:2, "And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others."

So, here in summary of (2 Tim 3:14), Paul refers EXCLUSIVELY to oral teaching and reminds Timothy to follow that as the "pattern" for his own teaching (as in 2 Tim 1:13).

Only after this reference to oral teaching is the term Scripture mentioned as "profitable" for Timothy’s ministry.

In 2 Tim 3:15 Paul was most specifically referring to the Old Testament.

Answers: Both. It was. It is.

Tradition: The reason you accept the books you do is that they were in the Bible someone gave you when you first became a Christian. You accept them because they were handed on to you. This means you accept the canon of the New Testament that you do because of tradition, because tradition is simply what is handed on to us from those who were in the faith before us. So your knowledge of the exact books that belong in the Bible, such as Philemon and 3 John, rests on tradition rather than on Scripture itself!

You're conflating both verses. Verse 15 specifically refers to the old testament.

Summary: In 2 Timothy 3:16-17, was Paul laying down a guideline for Timothy to make use of both Scripture and tradition in his ministry.[/

doyinbaby:
Arguing with a catholic is a good way for a person to vex is soul......... anyway you still preach to them...,. however dont forget that Jesus said if you are not accepted in a city dust the sole of your shoe....

solite3:
by the way do you even know what tradition mean as used by the bible?. Paul's words are the same as what he wrote down.

2 Corinthians 10:11 Let such an one think this, that, such as we are in word by letters when we are absent, such will we be also in deed when we are present.

By this you should note that the letters that they wrote is the full description of their actions. In other words their tradition is their letter.
So the teaching of the apostles is one both in words or in letter.

solite3:
the scripture clearly defines the what the apostles practice and teach.
This is a straw man's argument

solite3:
how did you come to interpret scriptures as old testament? Do think timothy didn't read new testament? Do you know that Timothy's mother and grand mother where Christians? And the Christians already recognise the new testament as scripture?

solite3:
sorry, Paul never receive human traditions,
Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
What scripture refers to as traditions where nothing but biblical principles.
Those who were before me used sola scripture as the basis for faith, who is the roman catholic church to alter it? The scripture is greater than roman catholic church and her popes plus any other heretical organization.
Yes those before me follow sola scripture.

solite3:
have address 2Tim 3:15, my my originnal posts states
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Dnaz:

Born of Water and spirit is simply water baptism in the name of the father, son and Holy spirit. That is the ancient faith passed on by the Apostles and preserved by the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. Not the these novel ideas that arose in the 19th Century Protestant America
Even Jesus was baptised to fulfill all righteousness
The Question is Why does he have to fulfill all righteousness?
Does it not show that Baptism is the gateway to our righteousness before God and out faith.
Christ did not start His ministry withoutwithout being baptised. Even though he was God. He Knee he came as a man and has to be like a man .He humbled himself to be baptised, Why would he do that if not to teach man that we must start our Christain Journey with a Clear conscience before God which baptism does for us by the Cleansing of our original and actual sins(the Washing of regeneration) Indicating it is the gateway to our faith.
Between which comes first between Water and Spirit, there is no order. It is as God pleases
This is the Faith of the Apostles
This is the Faith of the Catholic Church
And I ll Choose this ancient original faith to the reformed 19th Century theology

Rev17:3-
The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of hThe woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication. And on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.er fornication. And on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.

shadeyinka:

Even your church Fathers understand that they stood on shaky grounds when it came to Baptism (for it was never practiced as Born Again).
If Baptism signifies being Born Again,
1. How many times can a person get born again in a lifetime?
2. Why do you then practice infant baptism (even though you get rebaptized as an adult)?
3. If Baptism is what you say it is, why do you practice baptism by sprinkling instead of baptism by immersion?

These questions will pick your conscience if you desire the truth.

Addressing the bolded: I saw a woman in scarlet


Not all who say to me Lord! Lord!! Shall enter the kingdom of heaven....

1. I can see that part of the apostles oral teaching is making images of Mary and bowing down to them.
2. I can see that the apostles oral teachings also taught purgatory (it is appointed for man to die once...after that purgatory)
3. The apostles also taught about the institution of the pope as the vicar of Christ...
4. We saw that Jesus had a harem of virgins/celibate women he called nuns(married to Jesus) and the apostles faithfully transmitted this down to us.

Dnaz:

We only get baptised once. Whether as an infant or as an adult
We don't bother ourselves about immersion or aspersion, they are both valid to us as long as its done according to the ancient faith handed to us by the Apostles. Which is the tradition of the Catholic chuch

Can't compare the Church fathers to 19th century mushroom theologians whom u follow. Some of the Church Fathers were taught directly by the Apostles themselves. They didn't have to read only the written traditions and interpret it the way it suits them like the Protestant leaders who came 1600 years after the Church
Like I said I ll rather take the opinion of the Church fathers because they have pedigree. The Reformers do not. They ate mostly rebellious kids who were angry at their mother, the Catholic church, but What an old woman sees sitting the child will not see even if he climbs a tower

Gal 1:8
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.

Mat 23:9
Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.

shadeyinka:

Unfortunately, I don't care about your so called reformers or Protestants. I care about what the plain word teaches about Jesus and His will for me.

I also know a little history.

As important as baptism is, Jesus parent didn't see a need for his baptism as a child!?
The faith of the parent actually saves the child!?

I wish you could just bring a single example of any of Jesus Apostles who baptized a child!?

You don't care whether it is by immersion or sprinkling when you claim that it washes you from the original sin!? Can sprinkling clean?

Your so called church Fathers have never even studied under the feet of the apostles: hece they can bring in heresies into the church

Are you aware that some errors were about smuggled into the church even at the life time of the apostles?

You know what the Apostles said?


Now, some people came in to add what the apostles have not said and you say they are church fathers who cannot decieve the church?

I asked you some questions which as usual you dodge:
1. I can see that part of the apostles oral teaching is making images of Mary and bowing down to them. Can you find just one evidence?
2. I can see that the apostles oral teachings also taught purgatory (it is appointed for man to die once...after that purgatory). Just one evidence that suggests so?
3. The apostles also taught about the institution of the pope as the vicar of Christ. An evidence that Peter was called "Father/Pope"

9inches:


James White got destroyed in the debate.

Did you notice you can only find this debate on Catholic youtube channels only? The video has disappeared from every single protestant website and their youtube channels. Check out how they all disappeared:

1. https://www.facebook.com/aomin.org/posts/240743046028759
2. https://reformedbaptistdaily./2013/08/09/mariology-mary-debate-james-white-vs-robert-fastiggi/
3. https://1689reformedbaptist./2013/08/10/james-white-vs-robert-fastiggi-debate-on-the-marian-doctrines/
4. https://beaconapologetics./2015/08/24/christian-vs-roman-catholic-debate-on-mary-dr-james-white-vs-dr-robert-fastiggi/
5. https://beaconapologetics./2016/10/17/the-catholic-doctrine-of-mary/
6. http://gospelliving..qa/2013/05/25-free-debates-featuring-james-white.html "Indulgences Debate"

doyinbaby:
Arguing with a catholic is a good way for a person to vex h is soul......... anyway you still preach to them...,. however dont forget that Jesus said if you are not accepted in a city dust the sole of your shoe....