₦airaland Forum

The scriptures says:

He who sows sparingly shall reap also sparingly;
He who sows bountifully shall also reap
bountifully.

If a poor man who gives a cup of rice to God expects to go home with a bag of rice,

He had better not give nothing.

But I tell you the truth,
Without the mite of the poor the church will move on.

I was in church that day in Portharcourt when a single man pledged 20 million to support DLBC Gbagada project.

And you tell me the poor built the church?

DrayZee:
I say exposed to the public in the sense that if the media doesn't report it, a vast majority of the populace won't know about it.
I don't care about the pastors lifestyle. They'll receive full repercussions for all their actions.
My point and business here is, you can't run a privately funded university cheap (or free) and that the universities are actually involved in minor aspects of industrialization. That's all.

It's okay. I think I now get your view on publicity of good works that Churches do, especially in terms of industrialization.

While I respect your lack of interest in the lifestyles of some clergymen, my view on this is in the contrary, as they are just like anyone else and should be criticized when they do something wrong.

All men are equal before God. If we can criticize national leaders, I don't see why clergymen shouldn't be criticized when they err.

But the clergymen can criticize anyone right?

ovcwality:
Me I did not make convenant with ur pastor, dey only time I will take u ppl serious is when ur Go's pay tithes in my church when I open one instead of giving another church that is rich, let's help one another u know

Who said you made covenant with your pastor. The Abrahamic covenant is what I was referring to.

RAFIC:
You talk of taxes when church followers pay tithes (one-tenth of their monthly earnings) every month, besides the weekly and bi-weekly offering contributions they make. What is that if not tax!?

Do they pay tithes and other weekly seed voluntarily or not?

Augustenite:
Bro, dey can as well invest in the health sector where all their members both the rich and the poor can benefits. Not having 2 universities . what is the essence of producing jobless graduate. More also, must all of them have a university, some of them should think of building a technical colleges where they will train and at the end equipped their graduates with necessary startup equipment, so from there reducing the rate of unemployment and helping the poor in their church. Either you like it or not .THEIR MAIN AIM IS TO MAKE MORE MONEY INTO THEIR SELFISH POCKET AND NOT TO ASSIST THE SOCIETY.

Providing free health care is not investing in the health sector? Hmm.
So the chance that they may be jobless is a good enough reason to let youth wallow in poor education right?
I know churches that train youth on workable skills, and empower them at the end. Try searching next time.
And I don't care what their main aim is, they have done what your government could not do. And nowhere in the world will you find a cheap/free private university. Nowhere!
It's poverty mentality that's causing all this. There are people in this same Nigeria that pay 12 million per year for education that is slightly above what private uni's here offer.
Go to where your pocket can afford. Don't be looking for free private university. You might as well have asked manna to fall from heaven.

Lordchuks23:
THIS IS A CASE OF ROBBING PETER TO PAY PUAL
ROBBING POOR MEMBER TO BENEFIT RICH MEMBER
Is either you are a pastor or one of their family,,,, because I don't know why you should forget about the church member that contributed for the establishment of these university, Catholic, Anglican, and all these autodox churches are the face of education in Africa, and most of this pastors are part of the beneficiary of the free education that was established by those Catholic, Anglican and other ages churches then, and you have a gut to ridicule the middle class and the poor that can't avoid this evil universities that was build with their hard earned money, don't forget there is God oooo(in mama p voice) the money that Rccg make in just a month is ×2 of what Oyo state government used to received as there monthly allocation, so why it is now difficult to run this universities with the price that the poor member will be able to avoid, don't forget you and your evil pastor belong to hell if you don't review this price and let it available for all member in your church,,,,,

Your reasoning is pathetic.

Augustenite:
Bro, dey can as well invest in the health sector where all their members both the rich and the poor can benefits. Not having 2 universities . what is the essence of producing jobless graduate. More also, must all of them have a university, some of them should think of building a technical colleges where they will train and at the end equipped their graduates with necessary startup equipment, so from there reducing the rate of unemployment and helping the poor in their church. Either you like it or not .THEIR MAIN AIM IS TO MAKE MORE MONEY INTO THEIR SELFISH POCKET AND NOT TO ASSIST THE SOCIETY.

The thing is most of them don't have a plan. They just copy one another. Redeem get university, let our church too have university. A lot of them run universities without God's direction.

flamingREED:
The scriptures says:

He who sows sparingly shall reap also sparingly;
He who sows bountifully shall also reap
bountifully.

If a poor man who gives a cup of rice to God expects to go home with a bag of rice,

He had better not give nothing.

But I tell you the truth,
Without the mite of the poor the church will move on.

I was in church that day in Portharcourt when a single man pledged 20 million to support DLBC Gbagada project.

And you tell me the poor built the church?

If a man has 200 Naira and gives 100 of that (50%) to 'the church' and another man has 400 million Naira and gives 20 million. Which one was more of a sacrifice for the giver?

That is the whole point of the widow's mite story, is it not.

kennypoka2:
The thing is most of them don't have a plan. They just copy one another. Redeem get university, let our church too have university. A lot of them run universities without God's direction.

It's simply a trend and an attempt to keep up with the Jones's

HigherEd:
It is sad that once again a Nigerian who ought to be a responsible mentor for Nigerian youths has towed the unfortunate path of Ignorance. In his recent music video, Fahlz called out Nigerian Churches for building universities with money of the poor yet made it unavailable for the poor due to "expensive" tuition.

This is one of the numerous emotional blackmail that churches in Nigeria are being subjected to. It is sad because one wonders if much of these accusers even realise what it takes to fund a mediocre university not to talk of a good one. In much of these debates and attacks against churches, most seem to abandon the facts rather they go feed on the lies and propaganda against the church which is an easy target because most churches rightly do not have PR teams or many individuals knowledgeable enough to defend them.

How Much Does It Cost To Run A Nigerian University
We would be using federal and state universities as a guide here due to the unavailability of data from mission universities.
In their underfunded states, the University of Ibadan's annual wage bill stands at 800 million naira/month translating to 10 billion naira/annum. Capital allocation to the university also stands at 1 billion naira/annum. While Tetfund's annual allocation stands at 2 billion naira per annum. Therefore all FG induced funding stands at 13 billion naira for a total number of 29,783 students which put total FG subsidy of UI at N437,000.00 per annum. This is excluding the IGR made by the university.
State universities on the other hand have a typical wage bill profile of about 5 billion a year. Example would be the likes of Lautech and EkSu with 390> million naira and 450 million naira as wage bill respectively.

If Governments are finding it hard to fund universities how would fahlz expect churches to do so exclusively?
Until recently Lautech was enmeshed in a serie of Industrial actions which was a result of the two owner state's inability to pay subvention for the university. Adekunle Ajasin on the other hand witnessed an internal crisis when state government had to hike the fees students where paying. All these are testament to the fact that university education is severely expensive to fund. So the intelligent questions that Fahlz should be asking is how state governments funded with Oil revenue, Compulsory Tax and a predictable income regime are finding it nearly impossible to properly fund single universities across their various states. Not why should churches who are funded by Voluntary donations and a nonconsistent income regime must fund free education.

There Are No Free Church Universities Anywhere In The World.
While most of the advocates of free church university education are quick to cite old missionaries as the reason why today's church must give free education it is curious as to why they refuse to cite free church universities in adavanced nations of the world today which currently practices free education. They cunningly make it sound as though tuition fees was invented by Nigerian pastors. But it is indeed far from the truth. The fact is that majority of the conventional churches across the globe funded or founded by churches charge way higher than their counterparts in Nigerian universities. Exceptions would be made of university cum seminaries which are usually also funded by churches.

"Church Universities Are Funded By The Poor" - A lie invented by Mischievous individuals
Half truths are equal to lies, to say that church universities are funded by the poor is to insinuate that they are exclusively funded by them. But that would be a lie because the obvious truth is that they are equally funded by the rich and middle class who in some cases don't even bother applying. Much of these self appointed advocates of the poor are in the reality hypocrites using poor people as a pawn in a dirty war game against the church.
University education is expensive everywhere and where it is free someone must be paying for it. Many of the hyocritic advocates of the poor make it seem as though poor people sell off their inheritances to gift to churches so as to build schools "that are for the rich". But in reality what most church members give to churches or university donations are negligible funds such as 50 - 500 naira. How many 50/100 naira notes are you going to pull together to replace one 800,000 required to educate one kid?


Nigerian Churches Should Continue Their Good works In The Higher Education Sector And Ignore Detractors.
The fact of the matter is that Nigerian churches provided over 30 universities which has given thousands of Nigerian youths the opportunity to study in a country with one of the lowest university per populations in the world. They've done that and have equally saved Nigeria millions in foreign exchange which erstwhile was lost to education tourism. They've funded researches in millions, owned research institutes which helped in curbing infectious disease and now even one now has a startup laboratory.


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=228551741245276&id=226796954754088

The article is already opinionated. Gonzo journalism.

CoolAmbience:
It's okay. I think I now get your view on publicity of good works that Churches do, especially in terms of industrialization.

While I respect your lack of interest in the lifestyles of some clergymen, my view on this is in the contrary, as they are just like anyone else and should be criticized when they do something wrong.

All men are equal before God. If we can criticize national leaders, I don't see why clergymen shouldn't be criticized when they err.

But the clergymen can criticize anyone right?

Everyone gets criticized and everyone can criticize. My own is that I don't care.
If others care about the pastors lifestyle, fine, no problem. I see it as a waste of my time.

CodeTemplar:
Do they pay tithes and other weekly seed voluntarily or not?

I wouldn't call it voluntary when they are threatened that they won't make heaven if they don't pay. When they are told that it is an outright sin not to pay... That, for me, is as compulsory as it gets.

londoner:
It's simply a trend and an attempt to keep up with the Jones's

Exactly!!!

It’s ok to put up a thread... it is within your right.

It is also within my right to express how I feel... and here is my feeling


I am ashamed !

I am ashamed of what religion has turned us to.

I am ashamed of us... of how we allowed religion to dumb us down too low.

I am shamed and I wept for mankind !

Samogbo1:
Bro, u keep mentioning advanced nations and societies in ur quotes without considering the basis for generalizing facts.

Nigeria is a third world country, where as d likes of Yale, Notre Dame, Harvard all has there leanings in advanced nations.

This nations are in no where to be compared to less developed country like Nigeria this implies that soft pedals shld be meted on its populace regarding education and other social contributions rather than venting exorbitant levies on the tithe payers in d name of sch fees.


I must admit that u r sound, informed and exposed but using ur exposure to defend Nigerian Clergies on their routine milking of poor masses through the proliferation of unis... DOESN'T SOUND WISE OF U.

Again, I will urge u to always derail from using profane/derogatory words while laying ur points next tym.

Finally, Nigeria shldnt be compared to Advanced countries regards to humanitarian welfares(unis) based on our developmental attainments so far.

The churches are giving scholarship and that should cover the poor. if everybody that pays less than 100,000 church seeds yearly demand subsidy of 800,000 per annum where will the money cone from? The poor who can barely pay tithes?

How about the church investing in agriculture thereby creating jobs and food for the people

HigherEd:
We are simply asking many of these entitled folks to tell us where you got your ideas of an utopia where church uni run without charging fees. Yale, Princeton, Harvard came into the argument because they were founded by churches of their clergies. But if you think that is too hard to process then tell us how Yonsei, regeant, pepperdine, Oral Roberts uni, biola uni, Loyola Marymount uni, oakwood uni, villanova uni, leeward, Georgetown uni, St Andrews uni all founded and in many cases still run by churches charge millions of naira that dwarf the tuition of Nigerian church unis.
Why are people in those countries not screaming like many of the idiots in Nigeria. Maybe it's because they understand a thing or two about what it cost to run a university.

Why are their poor not screaming blue murder against the church for allowing their unis charge them thousands of dollars in fees which results in ppl taking back breaking loans to pay. Their poor also pay tithe and offerings, not to talk of the huge financial aid their govt still gives to private universities. Catholic uni of Notre dame collected millions of USD from US every year yet the school fees is 45,000USD.

The best private uni in Africa is American Univ of Cairo which charges 14,000USD while Covenant is the second and charges about 3,000USD. Let that sink in.

DrayZee CodeTemplar made important point on the so called call for industries. And let me reiterate that many universities funded by churches even have more employees than some industries. But be rest assured that when churches go into industries you would hear demonic things like "how can church build an auto industry when members can't afford the cars they make." That's the insanity of the Nigerian populace they deliberately forget the churches to employ ppl through universities and draw out the fact that poor people can't attend. Covenant for instance has over 2000 families feeding from it. But no let's forget that and focus on the 850,000 fees that the poor cannot pay.

I'm Muslim but I wholeheartedly agree with your submissions.

jonesoibe:
I least expected this from falz. �[b][/b]
Leave the church alone and mind your music career.

I'm neither a prophet of doom nor hater of fals but I see his career ending soon out of his own making, trading on the path of freeze might turn out disastrous on him.

I laugh when people talk bad of pastors and their wealth forgetting most of this men came into pastorship very very wealthy and most of them have their own businesses successfully n solely running without the proceeds of the church.

I bet they can't say that to the Muslims but feel Christianity is tolerable hence you can say anything to them n go free, I just pity them and their ending.

londoner:
If a man has 200 Naira and gives 100 of that (50%) to 'the church' and another man has 400 million Naira and gives 20 million. Which one was more of a sacrifice for the giver?

That is the whole point of the widow's mute story, is it not.

You, Freeze and Falz should go, collect and build a 'Widows Mite University' for them.
Isn't that feasible?

Inricash:
Now the price for that standard of education with no profit making interest in mind is fees of over a million...


Just agree, the schools by most churches today are profit making ventures..

You don't need to set up schools to offer scholarships and scholarship doesn't justify that amount for their standard of education

Who said schools are set up for scholarship? please show the whole world.

Stallion93:
The moment u start a debate with an outright fool u begin to give him the attention he craves and u start an argument on a Foolish premise which would likely Infect your rational reasoning and like I said, foolishness is Toxic, So please depart from such Quagmire. I mean who needs to be told Churches and church owned schools in Nigeria are all in for the Money?? Is that smth to debate on actually??!

Guess work. Typical of mentally lazy people.

CodeTemplar:
So let us reason it further brethren.
A man earn #50,000 and can't afford to pay #600, 000 as fee per annum, he pays his tithe of #5,000 in accordance with the covenant and now wants the church to flip his average annual tithe of #60,000(#5000/month) into #600,000 in form of subsidized education.
It takes a level of dead conscience for such a thought to flow through a sane mans mind.

You & I know too well that no Nigerian earns 50k a month & pays 5k as a tithe !....yes,you heard me right....We mostly consider it "foolishness"...

kennypoka2:
They can run a standard university and make better avenues for more poor people to attend such institutions. Every Christian leader should answer this question, are these universities in line with God's teaching? Because if it is, then I don't understand the objectives of the church anymore. I have friends that after their study in these so-called universities are still looking for jobs. We can't keep justifying these practices and expect changes in our country. If these leaders that claim to be serving same God can't come together and think of ways to include the poor in their educational scheme, then what's the point? The world should be separated from the church. The way things are done in anything church-related is different. Because God is concerned about winning more souls and if anything they're doing is not winning souls then why do it? They all want to build universities even one that just started yesterday. The church I attend are seriously tasking the members to complete their university but their secondary schools and primary school are nothing to write home about. Instead of aiming to build universities that doesn't cater to the poor, why not just concentrate on the secondary schools, make it better, bigger and more conducive for children to attend. I believe building universities without including the poor in the agenda is wrong and evil and shouldn't be encouraged. These churches are meant to be the moral pillar of the society, with them around, the nation is meant to be better. But, reverse is the case in Nigeria... I'm not blaming religion for where we are presently but I can boldly say they contributed to it.

So all the talk about the existence of scholarships for members, your eyes did not see any of them. Because you're friends are still looking for jobs, we should now overlook all the other people who benefitted and are benefitting positively from these schools.
No offense but if one does not take his/her studies seriously enough, then he/she has no one to blame when they see no job. Because they aren't qualified for it. Stop assuming that because you went to a good university, that every employer will fall at your feet. In those universities there will be first class and there will be third class.

From what you've typed, I've seen that your own church is the problem you have. Which church is that?
And since you're there, all this change you're advocating for online, why don't you say it out there. You're in a better position to cause the change you're looking for.

perfectedmee:
If the Church were able to use people Offerings and tithes to build a whole University.

What stops them from still using it to fund the University ?

Cos last time I checked, people are still paying tithes Nd Offerings, in fact, one of the GO's boasted that it has tripled over d year.

D truth is that, these schools were built for profit taking. You can continue wallowing in your ignorance.

Emotion doesn't make u right.

I have since concluded that people that criticize church universities are mostly shallow minded they are incapable of critical thinking. They struggle to strike a balance between reality and their mindset. To some of them you can help them by explaining expenditures the way Op did,especially how much government subsidized critically underfunded public universities. Meanwhile, some are outright idiots that are just incapable of comprehension. When next anybody criticize school fees paid in churches universities know that you have another person that is incapable of broad thinking in your hand

HeyCorleone:
Falz' contention was not on "free schools". His point was on the exorbitant fees. I mean ain't nothing wrong with Covenant charging 100-200k for fees. Worried about paying the staff?

You know how those missionary boys did it back then? Rather than employ teachers who would definitely increase the cost of running the school, the learned ones taught the students themselves. I mean ain't nothing wrong in a pastor with a degree in Engineering taking Engineering courses in a university as long as he's proficient. Such a pastor won't mind the little salary he receives because ultimately he's doing the work of God and his reward is in heaven.

The comment I responded to talked about free schools.

I'm not responding to Falz here.

By the way, those fees are really not exorbitant from the perspective of the quality they give and prices related schools outside Nigeria pay for the same quality.

However, the fees can said to be exorbitant because majority of Nigerians cannot afford it. I'm quite sure that most of the parents of the students in that school can afford to pay that sum...and even if the school charges 200k like you suggested, many people still cannot afford it, like the critics will say, the poor members will still not be able to pay.

DrayZee:
So all the talk about the existence of scholarships for members, your eyes did not see any of them. Because you're friends are still looking for jobs, we should now overlook all the other people who benefitted and are benefitting positively from these schools.
No offense but if one does not take his/her studies seriously enough, then he/she has no one to blame when they see no job. Because they aren't qualified for it. Stop assuming that because you went to a good university, that every employer will fall at your feet. In those universities there will be first class and there will be third class.

From what you've typed, I've seen that your own church is the problem you have. Which church is that?
And since you're there, all this change you're advocating for online, why don't you say it out there. You're in a better position to cause the change you're looking for.

That's why I had refused to write an epistle to reply you earlier. You are so opinionative... I leave you to your assertions...

DrayZee:
Everyone gets criticized and everyone can criticize. My own is that I don't care.
If others care about the pastors lifestyle, fine, no problem. I see it as a waste of my time.

Great, if you would say same for national leaders.

Otherwise, you are on your own as only God knows his own.

Wrong is wrong and should be criticized no matter who is involved.

zomoears:
You can keep your "education", it is for gullible people who dont have the insider information that I have. I know about cost of running these Universities and how much they make.
Not to deviate from d crux of the matter, Falz said "there is no law that allows you to take money from the church, invest in business, and privatise it". Go and check the laws of the land. Because we dont obey law in Nigeria, una de do anyhow. Falz is a lawyer.

Go and try this in UK or other serious societies where law and order is upheld. Charities have rules spelling out how they are to be run.

Mr Insider Information, please can you give an analysis of the revenue and expenditure of Covenant university and stop making a fool of yourself in public.

Back to what Falz said, I have no problem with it...Church money should not be stolen and used for a private business, Fine. So where does the school you're clamouring about come in?

Pentools:
I'm neither a prophet of doom nor hater of fals but I see his career ending soon out of his own making, trading on the path of freeze might turn out disastrous on him.

I laugh when people talk bad of pastors and their wealth forgetting most of this men came into pastorship very very wealthy and most of them have their own businesses successfully n solely running without the proceeds of the church.

I bet they can't say that to the Muslims but feel Christianity is tolerable hence you can say anything to them n go free, I just pity them and their ending.

Very, very wealthy!!!

Brainwashed Nigerians..

zomoears:
I smell disdain for poor people here. I also smell "entitlement" mentality, like you are a part of d corrupt church system Falz was highlighting.

I had to be this blunt because i know i will receive critisism or attack. I laughed when u mentioned the word 'disdain'. That is so not in my character or where in me sir . I am lowly in heart by His grace. @'entitlement mentality'... will still laugh at this.

Falz has made a structured criticism on this growing argument to the best of his know so has the Op.

The reason Falz shouldn't be crucified as the Op was trying to do.

Now to the issue at hand, Universities are expensive to build and even more expensive to run. Hence the high tuition fees which unfourtunately can only be accessed by the rich. The churches that have Universities today in Nigeria are fully aware that majority of the low and medium income members cannot afford the high tuition fees the university the contributed generously in building.

However the reason most of the churches would give is that it was borne out of necessity from the reasons I stated above. They should not be criticized for this.

In all fairness however this argument is put the big question is during the building of most of these universities during fund raising did the church inform all contributing that when the university starts running, only the high income earners would be able to have their wards study it.

If the answer is yes, then there is no need for this argument.
However if it is a no, then the church are no different from a 419 organisation.

PS: Quote me only if you has something reasonable to say