₦airaland Forum

Ihateyoumod:
All u have ended up analyzing is business. Which makes d church a business organization.

How is subsidy a business?

DrayZee:
Leave Higher.Ed first. The thing is a bit personal to him.

Now, did the missionaries build universities when they came here? No
Is it cheap to run a university? No
Is there any cheap private university (by your standards) on the surface of the earth? No. Even the ones built by the so called "missionaries" charge up to 7million naira per student.
So tell me, what miracle do you want the churches to perform to make the universities "free"?
Do you expect lecturers to teach and not demand salary? Do you expect cleaners to clean and not demand salary? Do you expect the university to order infrastructure and not pay for it? Do you expect them to receive their 24/7 electricity for free?

Please tell me, what plan do you have that can make a full fledged university free? Tell us this your brilliant idea that no one on earth has ever thought of before.

The money spent on jets and it's maintenance will handle all these expenses...after all d money comes from the people abi....use ur brain nah

DrayZee:
Leave Higher.Ed first. The thing is a bit personal to him.

Now, did the missionaries build universities when they came here? No
Is it cheap to run a university? No
Is there any cheap private university (by your standards) on the surface of the earth? No. Even the ones built by the so called "missionaries" charge up to 7million naira per student.
So tell me, what miracle do you want the churches to perform to make the universities "free"?
Do you expect lecturers to teach and not demand salary? Do you expect cleaners to clean and not demand salary? Do you expect the university to order infrastructure and not pay for it? Do you expect them to receive their 24/7 electricity for free?

Please tell me, what plan do you have that can make a full fledged university free? Tell us this your brilliant idea that no one on earth has ever thought of before.

By the way is the standard of d world now d churches standard....this shows how much d church has fallen

DrayZee:
Wow. For Winner Chapel and Covenant/Landmark, I think you should apply to the David Oyedepo undergraduate scholarship foundation (I think this year's own has passed). Inquire at the church if you're a member.
I don't know much for other churches.

Thanks for the swift response I did a little research and I found this link http://www.davidoyedepofoundation.org/portal/scholarship/register/ but it's not opening.

DoblyYou:
I don't think anyone has the right to say such ma. The rich can give N30,000 grudgingly. We are humans. The church's mandate is to spread the good news of Christ not to search people's heart.

Are u not understanding that i didnt speak on a one-side notion.i was'nt bias in my point, i hit on d amount aswell as i hit on d mind it will come from. You are being bias in judging me here.

eyinjuege:
Nothing good comes cheap.
The older church universities are giving value for money.
Because I pay a tithe of 5k as a poor man (60k) a year ( and that's been generous, cos most poor people may pay 1k as to tithe or less) doesn't mean my 4 children are entitled to get free education( worth 600k) per year.
Who will continue to sponsor the maintainance of the buildings and most importantly running costs such as salaries ?
Is it also right that the parents of these children will give free services to the church universities?
How many of the parents are ready to resign as professors, civil servants etc to come and work for free in these universities?
What some of the churches should do and I think most do it anyway is to offer scholarships to the deserving children of the very poor indigene members. Not to members who are a bit comfortable.
A lot of people will still want to be chosen for the scholarships too whether their parents are middle class or upper class cos we all love freebies.

where did they got the money to build all those buildings...... I mean the church

you are talking about building maintenance!

izzou:


[b]First of all, I do not support Falz in anyway. So don't quote me if you don't understand my points. Thank you.

My question is? What is the aim of building the University in the first place? Is it to provide quality education, or to make profit?

If it's to provide quality education, then who are the targets? The rich or the poor? Because I'm sure no poor man can afford a private university.

Take a look at this country. The churches have made a mockery of the whole education sector. Every church wants to have a university. And you want to tell me it's not for profits? Even the church that will reign tomorrow are already looking for a parcel of land for their proposed university. Don't we have enough already?

Why can't these churches build industries? Why can't two or three of these churches come together and create wealth if not for anyone, at least for their members?

Instead, they create more and more divisions among themselves. This founder will boast to his students that his school is the best amongst others, and how God gave him the vision to revive the educational sector. Rubbish

I need not type more so you don't think I actually support Falz. Falz should have just kept quiet. It would have been better[/b]

u must be having a smoke..! Church "come together" to build industry "for their members" come how old are u..!! Are u even a christian..!!!?

Chill...did u really go to school..like did u do a course u really loved and u wanted to be good at it..dude u reek of ignorance, like u should even be deleted from life..it like u arnt current..!

I attended a private sec school. In our chemistry, biology and physics lab,every student has his/her own materials, apparatus..

Now I attended a government poly, and also a government university.. Dude it was fvcking different..they would drop 3 apparatus for like 70 students and say we should share it..group ur self...no pls tell me...how does more money not relate to quality education..

Better still why don't u tell me which poor country offers good education... Dude..!! Wake up..!! Seriously..!

I know as u grow up u would find out that u are wrong..!!

sangresan:
I thought you would name your hitherto wealthy pastors....

Who is holding you back...?

Name them...

Your monicker sound Islamic, hence I can't argue with you, cus it will be like arguing with a deaf n dumb fellow.

Pardon me sounding derogatory or profane but that's the perfect picture in actual sense, sorry I'm done with you.

Bye!

ladygudhead:
Are u not understanding that i didnt speak on a one-side notion.i was'nt bias in my point, i hit on d amount aswell as i hit on d mind it will come from. You are being bias in judging me here.

My apologies.

blaise26abj:
Focus on the message, why is it that poor members who want to go to school can't afford to go to the university? Is there a system in place to make it available for them? A balanced kind of system where the rich pay well to enable poorer families to attend the schools? No doubt it is expensive to run a university, but when you build one with the effort of all your members , rich and poor, it is sane to also set up systems that will make it affordable for all the members

confirm

leye4u:
..it will not be well with all your enemies that made you like this....very annonying to hear youths talk like this,no iota financial of understanding....go and take a weekend course on financial studies/business management/book keeping,...your life would never remain the same

Another mumu talk again!

am waiting for another

don't fail me

drealtruth:
Thanks for the swift response I did a little research and I found this link http://www.davidoyedepofoundation.org/portal/scholarship/register/ but it's not opening.

I'm trying to open it too. Check Covenant's website directly or inquire at Winner's Chapel. Though it must have closed by now.

DoblyYou:
My apologies.

*smiles...thats welcome!

Ihateyoumod:
The money spent on jets and it's maintenance will handle all these expenses...after all d money comes from the people abi....use ur brain nah

Like I said, poverty mentality. If someone tells you a jet was bought with 2 billion dollars now, you'll believe it.
Because you've been hearing of how expensive it is to manage, you say a jet will cover the running costs of a university. You have no idea how you sound.
A private university can never be free/cheap. That is a fact.

Trying to create enabling environment and quality education for the same people that can still afford it anywhere....... what happens to the ones that cannot afford it in those high tuition fees school.

dats exactly where the church fits in..... affordable to those ones that cannot afford quality and good enabling environment for studies.

Pentools:
Your monicker sound Islamic, hence I can't argue with you, cus it will be like arguing with a deaf n dumb fellow.

Pardon me sounding derogatory or profane but that's the perfect picture in actual sense, sorry I'm done with you.

Bye!

lol...

sangresan is Islamic?

And what has that got to do with the discussion?

zomoears:
My profession does not allow disclosure. Does not mean I dont know.

In closing my submission, I wont waste time on people like you whose business it is that Falz highlighted. Falz mentioned politicians, fulani herdsmen, those on codeine diet, Yahoo boys, SARS, even took a swipe at the IGP. But its only "dagbo" church men who have specialised in hoodwinking the masses that are up in arms. The real men of God would be insightful and analyse the statement and ask why it resonates so much with the masses. But no. Here you are trying to "educate" me. I only pity people who key into your "educaion", because that is the source of your "market".
Am out.

You've made no point, Mr Insider Information.

If you want free education, cry out to those in government, mismanaging your money...or seek scholarship; the Church is not obliged to give you free education. You may as well remain in your ignorance.

Even Falz wasn't asking for free education.

Ihateyoumod:
By the way is the standard of d world now d churches standard....this shows how much d church has fallen

Peace. You saw series of questions and you came to give one generic statement making no sense whatsoever.
Bye bye. All of you have lost your points

HigherEd:
It is sad that once again a Nigerian who ought to be a responsible mentor for Nigerian youths has towed the unfortunate path of Ignorance. In his recent music video, Fahlz called out Nigerian Churches for building universities with money of the poor yet made it unavailable for the poor due to "expensive" tuition.

This is one of the numerous emotional blackmail that churches in Nigeria are being subjected to. It is sad because one wonders if much of these accusers even realise what it takes to fund a mediocre university not to talk of a good one. In much of these debates and attacks against churches, most seem to abandon the facts rather they go feed on the lies and propaganda against the church which is an easy target because most churches rightly do not have PR teams or many individuals knowledgeable enough to defend them.

How Much Does It Cost To Run A Nigerian University
We would be using federal and state universities as a guide here due to the unavailability of data from mission universities.
In their underfunded states, the University of Ibadan's annual wage bill stands at 800 million naira/month translating to 10 billion naira/annum. Capital allocation to the university also stands at 1 billion naira/annum. While Tetfund's annual allocation stands at 2 billion naira per annum. Therefore all FG induced funding stands at 13 billion naira for a total number of 29,783 students which put total FG subsidy of UI at N437,000.00 per annum. This is excluding the IGR made by the university.
State universities on the other hand have a typical wage bill profile of about 5 billion a year. Example would be the likes of Lautech and EkSu with 390> million naira and 450 million naira as wage bill respectively.

If Governments are finding it hard to fund universities how would fahlz expect churches to do so exclusively?
Until recently Lautech was enmeshed in a serie of Industrial actions which was a result of the two owner state's inability to pay subvention for the university. Adekunle Ajasin on the other hand witnessed an internal crisis when state government had to hike the fees students where paying. All these are testament to the fact that university education is severely expensive to fund. So the intelligent questions that Fahlz should be asking is how state governments funded with Oil revenue, Compulsory Tax and a predictable income regime are finding it nearly impossible to properly fund single universities across their various states. Not why should churches who are funded by Voluntary donations and a nonconsistent income regime must fund free education.

There Are No Free Church Universities Anywhere In The World.
While most of the advocates of free church university education are quick to cite old missionaries as the reason why today's church must give free education it is curious as to why they refuse to cite free church universities in adavanced nations of the world today which currently practices free education. They cunningly make it sound as though tuition fees was invented by Nigerian pastors. But it is indeed far from the truth. The fact is that majority of the conventional churches across the globe funded or founded by churches charge way higher than their counterparts in Nigerian universities. Exceptions would be made of university cum seminaries which are usually also funded by churches.

"Church Universities Are Funded By The Poor" - A lie invented by Mischievous individuals
Half truths are equal to lies, to say that church universities are funded by the poor is to insinuate that they are exclusively funded by them. But that would be a lie because the obvious truth is that they are equally funded by the rich and middle class who in some cases don't even bother applying. Much of these self appointed advocates of the poor are in the reality hypocrites using poor people as a pawn in a dirty war game against the church.
University education is expensive everywhere and where it is free someone must be paying for it. Many of the hyocritic advocates of the poor make it seem as though poor people sell off their inheritances to gift to churches so as to build schools "that are for the rich". But in reality what most church members give to churches or university donations are negligible funds such as 50 - 500 naira. How many 50/100 naira notes are you going to pull together to replace one 800,000 required to educate one kid?


Nigerian Churches Should Continue Their Good works In The Higher Education Sector And Ignore Detractors.
The fact of the matter is that Nigerian churches provided over 30 universities which has given thousands of Nigerian youths the opportunity to study in a country with one of the lowest university per populations in the world. They've done that and have equally saved Nigeria millions in foreign exchange which erstwhile was lost to education tourism. They've funded researches in millions, owned research institutes which helped in curbing infectious disease and now even one now has a startup laboratory.


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=228551741245276&id=226796954754088

if money can be contributed to buy and maintain a private jet, the it can be contributed to run a school.

Nobody has the time to reply the Op's epistle and meaningless postulations..
Falz should be commended for raising this social issue...I'm surprised that a sane mind could criticise Falz for talking about relevant issues in the society rather than devoting his music and time to promoting drugs, waywardness, and fraud.

DrayZee:
Like I said, poverty mentality. If someone tells you a jet was bought with 2 billion dollars now, you'll believe it.
Because you've been hearing of how expensive it is to manage, you say a jet will cover the running costs of a university. You have no idea how you sound.
A private university can never be free/cheap. That is a fact.

Keep kwayet...where did I say a jet will cover the running cost of a university......... U mentioned something's the university needed money to cover......so r u saying the cost of one or two of these things cannot be covered with the cost and maintenance of a jet.

Mind u some of these churches own more than one jet....so wht r u saying...

A church university is like covenant, redeemers can not be cheap because they had conformed and aligned with the standards of the world......... That's d point u r making here

Lotechi:
if money can be contributed to buy and maintain a private jet, the it can be contributed to run a school.

I love this ur submission

DrayZee:
The point here is that they did not build free universities anywhere. And the ones they built are not cheap either.
They also have scholarships for the poor to attend their secondary schools. Stop closing your mind.
If you know you're determined to leave here with the same mindset you came with, then inform me now. I can't be typing to someone who's not willing to accept when he's wrong.

You are the one with a closed mind. Where are the Rehaps, orphanages and free secondary schools missionaries built? Where they stupid to build things that were cheap and affordable to the poor? Imagine a self imposed truth dogder. Why didn't they start building things out of the reach of the poor in their names? Ask your selfish GO's those questions.

HigherEd:
It is sad that once again a Nigerian who ought to be a responsible mentor for Nigerian youths has towed the unfortunate path of Ignorance. In his recent music video, Fahlz called out Nigerian Churches for building universities with money of the poor yet made it unavailable for the poor due to "expensive" tuition.

This is one of the numerous emotional blackmail that churches in Nigeria are being subjected to. It is sad because one wonders if much of these accusers even realise what it takes to fund a mediocre university not to talk of a good one. In much of these debates and attacks against churches, most seem to abandon the facts rather they go feed on the lies and propaganda against the church which is an easy target because most churches rightly do not have PR teams or many individuals knowledgeable enough to defend them.

How Much Does It Cost To Run A Nigerian University
We would be using federal and state universities as a guide here due to the unavailability of data from mission universities.
In their underfunded states, the University of Ibadan's annual wage bill stands at 800 million naira/month translating to 10 billion naira/annum. Capital allocation to the university also stands at 1 billion naira/annum. While Tetfund's annual allocation stands at 2 billion naira per annum. Therefore all FG induced funding stands at 13 billion naira for a total number of 29,783 students which put total FG subsidy of UI at N437,000.00 per annum. This is excluding the IGR made by the university.
State universities on the other hand have a typical wage bill profile of about 5 billion a year. Example would be the likes of Lautech and EkSu with 390> million naira and 450 million naira as wage bill respectively.

If Governments are finding it hard to fund universities how would fahlz expect churches to do so exclusively?
Until recently Lautech was enmeshed in a serie of Industrial actions which was a result of the two owner state's inability to pay subvention for the university. Adekunle Ajasin on the other hand witnessed an internal crisis when state government had to hike the fees students where paying. All these are testament to the fact that university education is severely expensive to fund. So the intelligent questions that Fahlz should be asking is how state governments funded with Oil revenue, Compulsory Tax and a predictable income regime are finding it nearly impossible to properly fund single universities across their various states. Not why should churches who are funded by Voluntary donations and a nonconsistent income regime must fund free education.

There Are No Free Church Universities Anywhere In The World.
While most of the advocates of free church university education are quick to cite old missionaries as the reason why today's church must give free education it is curious as to why they refuse to cite free church universities in adavanced nations of the world today which currently practices free education. They cunningly make it sound as though tuition fees was invented by Nigerian pastors. But it is indeed far from the truth. The fact is that majority of the conventional churches across the globe funded or founded by churches charge way higher than their counterparts in Nigerian universities. Exceptions would be made of university cum seminaries which are usually also funded by churches.

"Church Universities Are Funded By The Poor" - A lie invented by Mischievous individuals
Half truths are equal to lies, to say that church universities are funded by the poor is to insinuate that they are exclusively funded by them. But that would be a lie because the obvious truth is that they are equally funded by the rich and middle class who in some cases don't even bother applying. Much of these self appointed advocates of the poor are in the reality hypocrites using poor people as a pawn in a dirty war game against the church.
University education is expensive everywhere and where it is free someone must be paying for it. Many of the hyocritic advocates of the poor make it seem as though poor people sell off their inheritances to gift to churches so as to build schools "that are for the rich". But in reality what most church members give to churches or university donations are negligible funds such as 50 - 500 naira. How many 50/100 naira notes are you going to pull together to replace one 800,000 required to educate one kid?


Nigerian Churches Should Continue Their Good works In The Higher Education Sector And Ignore Detractors.
The fact of the matter is that Nigerian churches provided over 30 universities which has given thousands of Nigerian youths the opportunity to study in a country with one of the lowest university per populations in the world. They've done that and have equally saved Nigeria millions in foreign exchange which erstwhile was lost to education tourism. They've funded researches in millions, owned research institutes which helped in curbing infectious disease and now even one now has a startup laboratory.


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=228551741245276&id=226796954754088

if money can be contributed to buy and maintain a private jet, then it can be contributed to run a school. + the federal schools have different salary structure, more population, low fees and corruption. We have other private schools that took loans from the bank to start and their fees are not too higher than these schools that got their capital from donations. ***thinking is free as opposed to what you might have heard****.

DrayZee:
Peace. You saw series of questions and you came to give one generic statement making no sense whatsoever.
Bye bye. All of you have lost your points

Accept it ur church has conformed and aligned itself to the standards of the world, guess who sets d standards of the world??....Satan.....u all have been brainwashed by Satan that's y u believe the church cannot offer cheap education.

RAFIC:
I wouldn't call it voluntary when they are threatened that they won't make heaven if they don't pay. When they are told that it is an outright sin not to pay... That, for me, is as compulsory as it gets.

Exactly, they're groomed and guilted into paying. They run to the church as desperate people seeking hope but they are taken advantage of by many so called pastors and church leaders.

zomoears:
I smell disdain for poor people here. I also smell "entitlement" mentality, like you are a part of d corrupt church system Falz was highlighting.

Nobody is disdaining poor people here, i didnt mention poor people but the poor as a quote. There's a reason i put that as a word in quote. Ok?

There's no need for all these arguments really. We all know how bad the situation would have been if the Church didn't start building universities at the time they did.

The private universities award scholarships to deserving indigent students. Babcock for instance takes care of those who lose parents while in school. The Adelekes award many scholarships to indigent students in their university.

In any case, the poor can decide not to pay tithes so that they don't help the rich inadvertently abi. Sadly it won't help them. The reality is that it will not stop the work of God. His divine purpose will always be fulfilled.

jibsy:
This argument is very simple to me. When you want to build a church, you pass envelops around for people to donate funds, no amount is too small you say. Then you buy the property in the name of one man. You open the church account quite alright but your spiritual head is the sole signatory and his wife or wards as next of kin. For God's sake, these are people's widow's might. You ask people to donate for building a school, no amount is too small you say again. But when the project comes to fruition, you set standards. Yes we know running an institution is no joke financially but when you take gifts from people, they feel entitled especially the poor. Here is my take, these spiritual heads can't tell us that they don't take salaries and payments from these tithes and offerings, so save up your earnings, collect loans from banks, build your university, don't name it after the church. In fact, no one needs to know the owner is a church spiritual head and everybody will be fine. I leave us with a question. How do you even feel comfortable collecting money from say a civil servant paying 850,000 each for three students in your school? A permanent secretary's basic salary is barely 500k per month. And that's the height of civil service work. Corruption smells already. How much do those pastors in your church get as salaries that they can even afford that tuition? Oh! I hear you say those ones are on scholarship. Yes, great one there. Then let all the poor students too from poor parents who gave their widow's might in building both church and school all get these scholarships and I think this case will be closed. Thank you

A bottle of your favorite drink for you

LaExpert:
You've made no point, Mr Insider Information.

If you want free education, cry out to those in government, mismanaging your money...or seek scholarship; the Church is not obliged to give you free education. You may as well remain in your ignorance.

Even Falz wasn't asking for free education.

I guess, in your stupid logic, those missionaries who didnt tell the people this your mumu talk but built free/ affordable things for them must be stupid. A typical black goat reasoning. If you were a missionary thats what you would have told Africans then. Blacks can't even take of their people in a humane sense but they blame some whites for seeing them as inhumane semi-animals.

Thats why their brand f Christianity has not changed the country. Inhumane selfish brand that cant bring socialistic distribution of wealth to uplift the poor like it complemented capitalism in the west.

izzou:


[b]First of all, I do not support Falz in anyway. So don't quote me if you don't understand my points. Thank you.

My question is? What is the aim of building the University in the first place? Is it to provide quality education, or to make profit?

If it's to provide quality education, then who are the targets? The rich or the poor? Because I'm sure no poor man can afford a private university.

Take a look at this country. The churches have made a mockery of the whole education sector. Every church wants to have a university. And you want to tell me it's not for profits? Even the church that will reign tomorrow are already looking for a parcel of land for their proposed university. Don't we have enough already?

Why can't these churches build industries? Why can't two or three of these churches come together and create wealth if not for anyone, at least for their members?

Instead, they create more and more divisions among themselves. This founder will boast to his students that his school is the best amongst others, and how God gave him the vision to revive the educational sector. Rubbish

I need not type more so you don't think I actually support Falz. Falz should have just kept quiet. It would have been better[/b]

bro one way or the other u are with falz.