₦airaland Forum

Butterflyleo:
You do not even see your premise stating at you.

YOU USED THE TERM CHRISTIANS

So what do Christians have in common if not Jesus and the Bible? Would you pretend not to know this? Wow.

So why would I then mention the Bible if you did not FIRST mention CHRISTIANS?

Still confused?

Do Christians show objective morality? No they don't. What is morally acceptable in this sect is immoral and not acceptable in another sect. That I have shown , if you disagree then show me that Christians display objective morality. Ive already shown you that they don't. Show me that they do instead of all the empty talk.

Do Christians have the same idea about Jesus? Nope

Some believe he is God himself and some believe he is not God himself but a distinct son of God. Do they all believe the same thing that Jesus said, no they don't.

Do Christians have the same bible and translations? No they don't.
Do Christians display objective morality? No they don't they always display subjective morality and I've given very clear examples.

Where is your evidence to show that Christians display objective morality? Where is it?

superhumanist:
Oh, I didn't know that you see yourself as a child

Says the guy who was told to " go and fly a kite".

I guess I wasn't the only one seeing you as a child.

dalaman:
Do Christians show objective morality? No they don't. What is morally acceptable in this sect is immoralad not acceptable in another sect. That I have shown , if you disagree then show me that Christians display objective morality. If already shown you that they don't. Show me that they do instead of all the empty talk.

Do Christians have the same idea about Jesus? Nope

Some believe he is God himself and some believe he is not God himself but a distinct son of God. Do they all believe the same thing that Jesus said, no they don't.

Do Christians have the same bible and translations? No they don't.
Do Christians display objective morality? No they don't they always display subjective morality and I've given very clear examples.

Where is your evidence to show that Christians display objective morality? Where is it?

Dalaman you simply have no single logical fiber in you and discussing logically with you is serious brain drain and waste of useful resources to say the least.

When you say CHRISTIAN what do you mean?

You keep saying CHRISTIANS but what does that mean?

You make a claim about conflicts but never show proof for this from the same book you claim they are conflicting and rather say YOU HAVE SHOWN PROOF. HOW?

Are you the foundation of Christianity? If you say CHRISTIANS have been conflicting their roots then use their roots to prove this conflict and not your claims without proof.

Butterflyleo:
Says the guy who was told to " go and fly a kite".

I guess I wasn't the only one seeing you as a child.

Adults use kites more than children. Why do you keep showing your ignorance?

Butterflyleo:
Dalaman you simply have no single logical fiber in you and discussing logically with you is serious brain drain and waste of useful resources to say the least.

When you say CHRISTIAN what do you mean?

You keep saying CHRISTIANS but what does that mean?

You make a claim about conflicts but never show proof for this from the same book you claim they are conflicting and rather say YOU HAVE SHOWN PROOF. HOW?

Are you the foundation of Christianity? If you say CHRISTIANS have been conflicting their roots then use their roots to prove this conflict and not your claims without proof.

I don't have time for your wuru wuru logic.

Christians as I have shown you with very clear example display subjective morality.

Now you are trying to force the discussion to be about the Bible. I don't care about the Bible. All I care and have done is to show you that even Christians display subjective morality and I've done that, the different sects display subjective morality. What is morally acceptable in one sect is considered immoral in another sect and I've given examples. If you disagree then show me that they display objective morality. That's all you are to do.
No long talk.

Butterflyleo:
Says the guy who was told to " go and fly a kite".

I guess I wasn't the only one seeing you as a child.

ROTFL. That wayward child should also be told to go play in the park.

superhumanist:
Adults use kites more than children. Why do you keep showing your ignorance?

Lmao

Your ignorance is topnotch designer ignorance.

https://m.chicagoreader.com/Bleader/archives/2018/05/03/look-to-the-sky-during-the-chicago-kids-and-kites-festival-saturday-photos

I guess you alone know that adults use more kites than kids. Lmao

dalaman:
I don't have time for your wuru wuru logic.

Christians as I have shown you with very clear example display subjective morality.

Now you are trying to force the discussion to be about the Bible. I don't care about the Bible. All I care and have done is to show you that even Christians display subjective morality and I've done that, the different sects display subjective morality. What is morally acceptable in one sect is considered immoral in another sect and I've given examples. If you disagree then show me that they display objective morality. That's all you are to do.
No long talk.

Again I have to laugh at you and your display of crass illogicality.

You talk about CHRISTIANS and you think the bible suddenly becomes an alien word from CHRISTIANS?

You are the one who set your premise when you said there are conflicts in morality so I simply asked you to show me these conflicts from the very SOURCE of Christianity. Can you do that now?

Instead of doing this, you go off on red herring after red herring and want me to take you seriously?

You demanded that I show you proof for your own conflict claim. So who or what are Christians conflicting?

IS IT YOU?

You say you have shown proof. Are you the standard for Christians? If not then show proof from their standard which confirm your claim of conflicts


No long talk abeg. Its becoming boring and lack luster.

Butterflyleo:
Lmao

Your ignorance is topnotch designer ignorance.

https://m.chicagoreader.com/Bleader/archives/2018/05/03/look-to-the-sky-during-the-chicago-kids-and-kites-festival-saturday-photos

I guess you alone know that adults use more kites than kids. Lmao

Out of all the kite festivals, you pick a children's festival?

Bro, you are a dishonest c*nt

superhumanist:
Out of all the kite festivals, you pick a children's festival?

Bro, you are a dishonest c*nt

Show me an adult one which is devoid of majority being kids

Butterflyleo:
Again I have to laugh at you and your display of crass illogicality.

You talk about CHRISTIANS and you think the bible suddenly becomes an alien word from CHRISTIANS?

You are the one who set your premise when you said there are conflicts in morality so I simply asked you to show me these conflicts from the very SOURCE of Christianity. Can you do that now?

Instead of doing this, you go off on red herring after red herring and want me to take you seriously?

You demanded that I show you proof for your own conflict claim. So who or what are Christians conflicting?

IS IT YOU?

You say you have shown proof. Are you the standard for Christians? If not then show proof from their standard which confirm your claim of conflicts


No long talk abeg. Its becoming boring and lack luster.

I have shown you evidence that Christian display subjective morality. No you are trying to turn it to source. Who mentioned any source. Do all Christians interprete the bible the same way?

Is it not the same bible that Christians use to justify all their conflicting positions?

Let me give you just a few examples, the young earth creationist and Old earth creationist all use the bible . The pro tithers and anti tithers also all use the same bible. Those that believe women should not lead any church activity and those that believe women can become pastors also use the same bible.

Stop talking about the Bible here because Christians do not all interprete the bible the same or hold the same universally acceptable doctrine from the Bible.

I've shown you that Christians display subjective morality with very clear examples. If yu disagree then show me that they display objective morality with examples.

LosVikingos:
Hala Madrid

The way I see religion is so close to yours, but I am not an atheist

I am not an extremist, because I have read across so many religions, Why?, because I wanted to be sure if I am in the right path.(Muslim)

However, I realized an herbalist can be better than a Muslim, or a Christian.

In my view, religion is trying to teach people a good behavior to make everything good, but that is not the case today. Religion and Hypocrites and like 5&6

You can be a good person without being a Christian or a Muslim or be in any religious group sha.

what will happen hereafter is what I am trying to get exactly. Because something in me keeps telling me something actually is going to happen. (my view)

I believe in hereafter, I believe there can be an unseen forces whether as one or many controlling us. (just my view)

But, I agreed that neither Bible nor Qur'an is free of contradiction.

They were written by people who claimed it is by inspiration from above.


But still yet I am addicted to my religion, and I am ready to bear the outcome.

However, I can achieve what you expect from me as a human, everybody is my friend when it comes to religion and everything else.


____________________________________________________

Even though I don't think anything can change me, I am still open for discussion from anybody from any religion.

But note that whatever you see me write up there is my opinion only.. I can't prove it to anybody, but I believe in it, nd I'm fine with it.

first of all, wishing you barika ya ramadan . Open mind is a virtue that is real and i must tell you i admire the individual who have it.... it takes much of an educated mind to tolerate every ideology while not believing or practicing them. therefore i salute your openness.

However, i do not want you to just hold on you opinion. Don’t be scared to investigate things for yourself. Read things from different religious perspectives. Give atheists the time of day. Go and chat with a local pastor or uztas of your interest. Look up to Wikipedia. challenge your opinion and put it into test. the more you know, the more you grow. i am pretty sure you will not buy a new compute without fully checking the specification on yourself even if you heard about it somewhere. you will really want to know. extend this idea to your faith too. challenge it.

I grew up with both Islamic and tradition believe until I was introduced to the Bible in my secondary school and not just people’s interpretations of the Bible but the scholarly part of it, which make me started doing my own research to confirm their interpretations. For the most part, they all align. Anytime they differ, I take all of them and try to interpret them in the best way that works, not just for me alone but for mankind. i am a proud traditionalist now. still enjoy sallah meal from mom when home.

Now if a man shows me something that goes against my current INTERPRETATION of my tradition faith, it becomes my responsibility to correct either my worldview or his interpretation of what he saw. I do not accept doubt because it is just as bad as yeast when not dealt with. You find out why and you deal with the consequences.

It is your existence.
Own it.

dalaman:
I have shown you evidence that Christian display subjective morality. No you are trying to turn it to source. Who mentioned any source. Do all Christians interprete the bible the same way?

Is it not the same bible that Christians use to justify all their conflicting positions?

Let me give you just a few examples, the young earth creationist and Old earth creationist all use the bible. The pro tithers and anti tithers also all use the same bible. Those that believe women should not lead any church activity and those that believe women can become pastors also use the same bible.

Stop talking about the Bible here because Christians do not all interprete the bible the same or hold the same universally acceptable doctrine from the Bible.

I've shown you that Christians display subjective morality with very clear examples. If yu disagree then show me that they display objective morality with examples.

Thank you for speaking in support of my very position.

So THEY ALL USE THE BIBLE AS THEIR FOUNDATION.

So where then did your claim of subjectivity for Christians come from?

I helped you make it clearer by making it bold for you in your own comment.

Case closed and dismissed.

Butterflyleo:
Thank you for speaking in support of my very position.

So THEY ALL USE THE BIBLE AS THEIR FOUNDATION.

So where then did your claim of subjectivity for Christians come from?

I helped you make it clearer by making it bold for you in your own comment.

Case closed and dismissed.

It is immoral for a lady to wear a tight jeans, wear heavy make up, climb the pulpit and preach in deeper life Church, the same lady can do that in Christs embassy and he actions will not be considered immoral.

My claim of subjectivity comes from what Christians display. They don't display objective morality.

Butterflyleo:
As I chat with atheists here on nairaland I tend to also study them and their styles of argument which unknown to them, projects their mental states through their writing and I have come to discover a few rather shocking things as I studied them.

I will begin this OP with a quote by Robert Reich the former U.S labour secretary under former President Bill Clinton when he said and I quote

"God is worse than terrorism"! He argued that followers of God pose a more significant threat to the 21st Century world than terrorists do and concluded by saying,

“ the great conflict of the modern world will not be between the West and terrorism but between those who believe in the primacy of the individual and those who believe that human beings owe their allegiance and identity to a higher authority; between those who believe in science, reason, and logic and those who believe that truth is revealed through Scripture and religious dogma”.

These rather illogical choice of words are the lengths atheists resort to while trying to negate the existence of God to themselves FIRST and then by extension, to their readers. This process of self negation involves playing of many mental games that well and truly stretches their psychological defense mechanisms.

The three men, who made atheism popular in the 19th Century, had almost the same experiences early in their lives, and there is a common psychological pattern evident in their later lives of rebellion.

They are, Friedrich Nietzsche, Thomas Henry Huxley and Sigmund Freud. They all had very similar psychological challenges and issues in their lives. They all had cruel fathers who often exerted domineering tendencies on them, they all suffered very high levels of depression and chronic obsessive fears. They therefore made it their lifes goal to destroy God, who to them represented a symbol of their fathers.

Since the existence of God is a reality (Yes I said that it is a reality so it is not a typo and is not open to debate either), an atheists mind protects itself from this rather profound reality through rejection of God’s existence using several psychological defense mechanisms such as i have observed in basically all Nairaland atheists. These psychological defense mechanisms are,

1) Rationalization

2) Repression

3) Displacement

4) Suppression and denial

Rationalization is an atheist’s number one favourite psychological defense mechanism. They very much depend on false reasoning that sounds logical to negate to themselves, the reality of God. They will throw loads and loads of reasons at Christians as to why God does not exist, and make them sound as logical as possible.

I will quote from a book written by John Pasquini, titled, Atheist Personality Disorder and he said thus,

"Addressing a Distorted Mindset, points out that atheists are good at using pedantic language to convince themselves and others, as they fool themselves that they are intellectually superior, while in the real sense, they are mere rationalizers."

Displacement is another extremely popular coping mechanism that an atheist uses. They always shift their anger towards believers and belief systems. Have you ever wondered why the thing atheists are good at is attacking religion and believers? It’s simply a coping mechanism.

An over reliance on these defense mechanisms do often lead to emotional immaturity and disjointed thinking that ends up in personality disorders. There is more than enough proof that atheism is a personality disorder.

1) Atheists have among the highest suicide rates in the world. Atheist countries have a suicide rate of 32 percent for every 100,000 people as compared to 4 for every 100,000 people in religious countries.

2) They are the most aggressive bitter and unhappy group in the society and this is evident even here on nairaland as all you need to do is scan individual atheist comments in the religion section and you would see hatred, bitterness, resentment and vile language all roled into one. It is common knowledge that our words are a projection of who we are.

3) Statistics have shown that they are less likely to get married twice as likely to get divorced and highly likely to have no children.

4) Statistics from atheistic regimes show that atheists are among the most intolerant groups in the world. The most popular atheistic nations are the former Soviet Union (Which is now a Christian Nation known as Russia), Vietnam and North Korea. According to John Pasquini, the Soviets destroyed more than 42,000 churches between 1917 and 1969, leaving the country with less than 6,000 churches. North Korea destroyed more than 500 Buddhist temples, while Vietnam destroyed more than 700. About 168 out of 270 suicide bombings that were carried out between 1980 and 2000 were not by Muslims but by Marxist atheists, including the bombing that killed President Ranasinge Premadasa of Sri Lanka in 1993 which was carried out by an atheist terrorist group known as Tamil Tigers (Yes again i said it and it was no typo. The Tamil Tigers are an atheist terrorist group). And it is clearly evident through their ideology as stated by wikipedia and i quote,

"Religion was not a major factor in their philosophy or ideology, the ideology of the Tamil Tigers emerged from Marxist-Leninist thought, and was explicitly secular. Its leadership professed opposition to religion".

As my fellow Christian, after you must have read all of the above, my strong counsel to you goes thus

"The very next time an atheist tries to engage you in an argument. LEAVE THEM ALONE!"

You don’t have to prove the existence of God to attention seeking psychotics who want to assert their intellectual superiority through faulty psychological coping mechanisms. You don’t have to prove that God exists. In fact you cannot be "arm twisted" to as atheists tend to attempt making you do through emotional blackmail. His existence is not debatable!

The moment you learn to ignore their demands they die just like when you starve a person of food, they die. This is the prescription on how to treat the mental disorder known as atheism.

Apply this very effective doses anywhere you see them gather and anytime you read their demands regarding proof for Gods existence from you regardless of the deliberate provocation they pour on you and watch them dry up and die.

God bless and Happy curing

References :

http://news.gallup.com/poll/108625/more-religious-countries-lower-suicide-rates.aspx

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5a2a902ee4b022ec613b812b/amp

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/Thread-Why-Do-Atheists-Have-the-Highest-Suicide-Rates

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_Tigers_of_Tamil_Eelam

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_the_Soviet_Union

cc winner01, felixomor, Anas09, ishilove, Sonofthunder, sciencewatch, image123, kingebukasblog, etc

THE OP is incredibly enlightening and written with love for humanity.

Many thanks Sir.
This OP should be reposted on all forums worldwide.

dalaman:
It is immoral for a lady to wear a tight jeans, wear heavy make up, climb the pulpit and preach in deeper life Church, the same lady can do that in Christs embassy and he actions will not be considered immoral.

My claim of subjectivity comes from what Christians display. They don't display objective morality.

You have already destroyed your entire argument in your prior comment so no need trying to wake up what has been destroyed.

shaybebaby:
Breakfast is served. Choke on it.
"Harry Potter and the Philosopher’s Stone, and the six sequels that followed it, worked the kind of magic most publishers could only dream of, selling well over 450 million copies and turning their author into a billionaire. Inspiring a devotion among fans last seen around the time of Jesus Christ, Potter became a global phenomenon."

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/20-years-harry-potter-fuss/amp/

These are the kind of books you read and you'd expect me to pause and talk to you? No. We flow at different wave lengths. I read Biographies of great men like Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln. Alexander the Great, Winston Churchhill and the present American President Donald J. Trump. What made these men who they were and are.

Gerrout of here.

Butterflyleo:
You have already destroyed your entire argument in your prior comment so no need trying to wake up what has been destroyed.

You've started with your dance of shame .

Do all Christians interpret the bible the same way? No they don't. Christians display subjective morality. Even interpretation of the bible is done subjectively that is why there are various/ different sects within Christianity.

You just keep shouting the bible , the bible as if all Christians interprete it the same way. There is no universally accepted Christian doctrine and there is no universally accepted Christian morality that is objective. Christians display subjective morality and that is the fact that you can not counter.

johnydon22:
I didn't know demons worked for you though. That is dark.

You are gradually moving over to the dark side. Lol

This is how low you are getting now? You want to resort to what your brethren are doing? Mud is where you belong now?

Well, good luck.

johnydon22:
You are doing Jesus and Christianity one better.

John, don't be so pained. My Christian faith should be the least of your concern. Why shd an atheist wish a Christian maintain the Character of Christ who doesn't exist? Biko,

budaatum:
Poo Anas. You do!

You mean i care about your assessment of me? Hahahahahaha. You are coming late.

dalaman:
You've started with your dance of shame .

Do all Christians interpret the bible the same way? No they don't. Christians display subjective morality. Even interpretation of the bible is done subjectively that is why there are various/ different sects within Christianity.

You just keep shouting the bible , the bible as if all Christians interprete it the same way. There is no universally accepted Christian doctrine and there is no universally accepted Christian morality that is objective. Christians display subjective morality and that is the fact that you can not counter.

So you agree that THEY INTERPRET THE BIBLE and not their self derived subjective views.

Thanks again for the support.

Another point struck out.

Anas09:
John, don't be so pained. My Christian faith should be the least of your concern. Why shd an atheist wish a Christian maintain the Character of Christ who doesn't exist? Biko,

amazing!!!

Anas09:
This is how low you are getting now? You want to resort to what your brethren are doing? Mud is where you belong now?

Well, good luck.

LOL

Butterflyleo:
So you agree that THEY INTERPRET THE BIBLE and not their self derived subjective views.

Thanks again for the support.

Another point struck out.

The bible is NOT an objective document. Everybody interprets it differently and subjectively. That is why Christians display subjective morality.

I noticed you are not even trying to dispute the fact that Christians display objective morality.

dalaman:
The bible is NOT an objective document. Everybody interprets it differently and subjectively. That is why Christians display subjective morality.

I noticed you are not even trying to dispute the fact that Christians display objective morality.

My talk with you is not about an argument between subjective morality and objective morality. I made this clear to you earlier that no matter how hard you try to bait me into it it will not work. I determine what I will discuss and what not to and not you.

You have been wanting to change the discussion and dictate its direction for a while now but I have been unperturbed by your suggestive language

You just said again THAT THEY (CHRISTIANS) INTERPRET THE BIBLE SUBJECTIVELY.

The source is the bible. If the source of their interpretations is already there for them then their interpretations are not subjective because what they are basing those interpretations on are right there in the bible.

Premise is everything.

Argument number 3 struck out.

Anas09:
These are the kind of books you read and you'd expect me to pause and talk to you? No. We flow at different wave lengths. I read Biographies of great men like Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln. Alexander the Great, Winston Churchhill and the present American President Donald J. Trump. What made these men who they were and are.

Gerrout of here.

Sadly, reading of their greatness hasn't rubbed off on you.
You are still basic.

vaxx:
first of all, wishing you barika ya ramadan . Open mind is a virtue that is real and i must tell you i admire the individual who have it.... it takes much of an educated mind to tolerate ever ideology while not believing or practicing them. therefore i salute your openness.

However, i do not want you to just hold on you opinion. Don’t be scared to investigate things for yourself. Read things from different religious perspectives. Give atheists the time of day. Go and chat with a local pastor or uztas of your interest. Look up to Wikipedia. challenge our opinion and put it into test. the more you know , the more you grow. i am pretty sure you will not buy a new compute without fully checking the specification on yourself even if you head about it somewhere. you will really want to know. extend this idea to your faith too. challenge it.

I grew up with both Islamic and tradition believe until I was introduced to the Bible in my secondary school and not just people’s interpretations of the Bible but the scholarly part of it, which make me started doing my own research to confirm their interpretations. For the most part, they all align. Anytime they differ, I take all of them and try to interpret them in the best way that works, not just for me alone but for mankind and to i am a proud traditionalist now. still enjoy sallah meal from mom when home.

Now if a man shows me something that goes against my current INTERPRETATION of my tradition faith, it becomes my responsibility to correct either my worldview or his interpretation of what he saw. I do not accept doubt because it is just as bad as yeast when not dealt with. You find out why and you deal with the consequences.

It is your existence.
Own it.

As usual, I commend your compassion and highly developed open mindedness in complex spiritual matters such as this VAXX.

But allow me to respectfully make a brief comment here.

That guy revealed that he is on a spiritual search and it seems that he wants to go forward.
Example: Forward is from no house to owning a house. Forward is from no job to having a job. Forward is no understanding of God to joining a spiritual institution/religion to learn, etc.

We can't go forward spiritually by consulting Atheists, that is a huge step backwards as is subtly explained in the incredible OP. BUTTERFLYLEO did a magnificent job of dismantling the very foundations of Atheism.


SALUTE !!

Butterflyleo:
My talk with you is not about an argument between subjective morality and objective morality. I made this clear to you earlier that no matter how hard you try to bait me into it it will not work. I determine what I will discuss and what not to and not you.

You have been wanted to change the discussion and dictate its direction for a while now but I have been unperturbed by your suggestive language

You just said again THAT THEY (CHRISTIANS) INTERPRET THE BIBLE SUBJECTIVELY.

The source is the bible. If the source of their interpretations is already there for them then their interpretations are not subjective because what they are basing those interpretations on are right there in the bible.

Premise is everything.

Argument number 3 struck out.

So young earth creationist and old earth creationist views are not subjective abi?

The deeper life view on dressing and that of Christ embassy are not subjective abi?

Where in the bible are they basing their different subjective views?

Butterflyleo:
Lmao

Your ignorance is topnotch designer ignorance.

https://m.chicagoreader.com/Bleader/archives/2018/05/03/look-to-the-sky-during-the-chicago-kids-and-kites-festival-saturday-photos

I guess you alone know that adults use more kites than kids. Lmao

Lol. Rolling on the floor with laughter. BUTTERFLYLEO you have a highly developed sense of humour in a Mental Asylum.

That atheists ignorance is designer IGNORANCE EXTRAORDINAIRE.
Lol. Haaaaaa hic hic .

dalaman:
So young earth creationist and old earth creationist views are not subjective abi?

The deeper life view on dressing and that of Christ embassy are not subjective abi?

Where in the bible are they basing their different subjective views?

You are the one who said there are conflicts so why would you say there are conflicts if you cannot show me FROM THE BIBLE where those conflicts are. Why are you still asking me for that? Am I the one who said there are conflicts?

I have corrected this erroneous talk of yours so many times here its now apparent you are deliberately turning a blind eye to your mischief.

Butterflyleo:
You are the one who said there are conflicts so why would you say there are conflicts if you cannot show me FROM THE BIBLE where those conflicts are. Why are you still asking me for that? Am I the one who said there are conflicts?

I have corrected this erroneous talk of yours so many times here its now apparent you are deliberately turning a blind eye to your mischief.

I've already shown you that there are conflicts. Do you day that there are conflicts?

Are the deeper life and Christ embassy views on female dressing for example in agreement with each other? Is the Young earth creationist view in agreement with the old earth creationist view? What about the anti tithe and pro tithe views? Are they all in agreement with each other?

What are you really on about?