₦airaland Forum

LordAdam:
The Nationalists were democratic. That should tell you all you need to know.

Or are you trying to say the US tried to actively/intently favor the communist CCP over the democratic KMT (even though their democratic leanings was basically just lip service) in the largest country on the planet? To this day the US has been on the KMT's side (modern Taiwan).

-Lord

Yes, Mainland China was betrayed into communism. By the US.
It was the US that made it possible for the CCP to regroup after they suffered a heavy defeat at the hands of the Nationalist government. The excuse the usless Americans gave was that it was easier for them to discuss with the communists that it was with the Nationalist. After regrouping they had access to the vast amount of waepons left behind by the Japanese and were supplied with weapons by the Soviets, while the US was like playing hide and seek with the Nationalists, even doing propaganda for the communists in the US, portraying them as the good people and the Nationalists as the bad ones, books and reports that favoured the Nationalists are prevented from gaining any headway while by being given very bad reviews while the exact opposite happens to the ones that favoured the CCP despite the fact that it was the Nationalists that bore the brunt of the war against the Japanese. It was very deliberate, there is nothing like negligence. It was premeditated and planned.

dometome:
Yes, Mainland China was betrayed into communism. By the US.
It was the US that made it possible for the CCP to regroup after they suffered a heavy defeat at the hands of the Nationalist government. The excuse the usless Americans gave was that it was easier for them to discuss with the communists that it was with the Nationalist. After regrouping they had access to the vast amount of waepons left behind by the Japanese and were supplied with weapons by the Soviets, while the US was like playing hide and seek with the Nationalists, even doing propaganda for the communists in the US, portraying them as the good people and the Nationalists as the bad ones, books and reports that favoured the Nationalists are prevented from gaining any headway while by being given very bad reviews while the exact opposite happens to the ones that favoured the CCP despite the fact that it was the Nationalists that bore the brunt of the war against the Japanese. It was very deliberate, there is nothing like negligence. It was premeditated and planned.

I think you are overdramatizing US involvement in the Chinese Civil War. At first (1927-1936) the KMT was supported by Nazi Germany while the CCP was supported by the Soviet Union. Since the Soviets were part of the Allied Forces, the US did not support the KMT, which is why they portrayed the Nationalists as the bad guys at first.

Things changed when the KMT joined with CCP to tackle the Japanese invasion. After WWII, there was a crack in the Allied coalition, the KMT sided with the West and CCP turned to the Soviet Union. This change is why you think the US was playing hide and seek with the Nationalists. For heavens sake, the US ordered the Japanese to surrender to Chiang not Mao in all areas where the Nationalist had a fighting force.

The whole KMT/CCP contention is reminiscent of the West Germany/East Germany contention. In the former the US was on the losing side, in the latter they were on the winning side. And I chalk it to incompetency not a premeditated plan. The US never trusted the Soviets and their pet projects and you've yet to state any reason whatsoever why they'd have made an exception for Mao.

-Lord

LordAdam:
I think you are overdramatizing US involvement in the Chinese Civil War. At first (1927-1936) the KMT was supported by Nazi Germany while the CCP was supported by the Soviet Union. Since the Soviets were part of the Allied Forces, the US did not support the KMT, which is why they portrayed the Nationalists as the bad guys at first.

Things changed when the KMT joined with CCP to tackle the Japanese invasion. After WWII, there was a crack in the Allied coalition, the KMT sided with the West and CCP turned to the Soviet Union. This change is why you think the US was playing hide and seek with the Nationalists. For heavens sake, the US ordered the Japanese to surrender to Chiang not Mao in all areas where the Nationalist had a fighting force.

The whole KMT/CCP contention is reminiscent of the West Germany/East Germany contention. In the former the US was on the losing side, in the latter they were on the winning side. And I chalk it to incompetency not a premeditated plan. The US never trusted the Soviets and their pet projects and you've yet to state any reason whatsoever why they'd have made an exception for Mao.

-Lord

The CCP sat out the WW2 while the Nationalists did the real fighting against the Japanese. The Nazis and the Japs were allies, not so?

Bluffly:
Are you people even constructing streets by yourself.

some do

dometome:
The CCP sat out the WW2 while the Nationalists did the real fighting against the Japanese. The Nazis and the Japs were allies, not so?

The CCP did not sit out. They were in league with the Soviets who were part of the allied forces. The KMT and CCP decided to suspend hostilities to face the Japanese threat together. However when the war ended, they resumed hostilities. The Japanese were ordered by the US to surrender to KMT forces where present. While the Soviets handed over the territory they took from the Japanese, such as Machuria, to the CCP.

In fact, the US had to airlift KMT troops to certain areas to assume control following the Japs surrender. The trump card for the CCP in the civil war was land reform which snowballed into many experienced KMT soldiers switching over to the CCP and much of the populace favoring the CCP (the angel they don't know) over the KMT (the devil they know). In hindsight, there's nothing the US could do about that (although they could have pressed the KMT to enact more democratic reforms to combat the CCP propaganda). The KMT was authoritarian and people thought the CCP was a breath of fresh air.

Historically, many of them or their direct progeny paid for it when Mao was consolidating power and during the Great Leap when tens of millions died as a result of Mao's unbelievably stupid policies.

So there, Mao was brilliant as a revolution leader, partly the reason why he is still revered in mainland China. The KMT made things easy for him and the US made strategic errors during the war. It wasn't their last. They also made strategic errors during the Korean War, during the Sino-Indian War, later in Vietnam, and even recently with the North Korea nuclear crisis. America's exploits in Asia mirrors their exploits in the Middle East.

And this is why I'm positive Taiwan will eventually merge with China completely in the near future, China would assume full control of the South China Sea, and North Korea will eventually get whatever it is they're looking for (global recognition + retaining their nuclear arsenal). Not necessarily because the CCP is so adept at getting what they want but because the US foreign policy in Asia is often a hot steaming pile of sh*t.

-Lord

LordAdam:
The CCP did not sit out. They were in league with the Soviets who were part of the allied forces. The KMT and CCP decided to suspend hostilities to face the Japanese threat together. However when the war ended, they resumed hostilities. The Japanese were ordered by the US to surrender to KMT forces where present. While the Soviets handed over the territory they took from the Japanese, such as Machuria, to the CCP.

In fact, the US had to airlift KMT troops to certain areas to assume control following the Japs surrender. The trump card for the CCP in the civil war was land reform which snowballed into many experienced KMT soldiers switching over to the CCP and much of the populace favoring the CCP (the angel they don't know) over the KMT (the devil they know). In hindsight, there's nothing the US could do about that (although they could have pressed the KMT to enact more democratic reforms to combat the CCP propaganda). The KMT was authoritarian and people thought the CCP was a breath of fresh air.

Historically, many of them or their direct progeny paid for it when Mao was consolidating power and during the Great Leap when tens of millions died as a result of Mao's unbelievably stupid policies.

So there, Mao was brilliant as a revolution leader, partly the reason why he is still revered in mainland China. The KMT made things easy for him and the US made strategic errors during the war. It wasn't their last. They also made strategic errors during the Korean War, during the Sino-Indian War, later in Vietnam, and even recently with the North Korea nuclear crisis. America's exploits in Asia mirrors their exploits in the Middle East.

And this is why I'm positive Taiwan will eventually merge with China completely in the near future, China would assume full control of the South China Sea, and North Korea will eventually get whatever it is they're looking for (global recognition + retaining their nuclear arsenal). Not necessarily because the CCP is so adept at getting what they want but because the US foreign policy in Asia is often a hot steaming pile of sh*t.

-Lord

Huh, the US government must have really gotten on your bad side with this bolded statement of yours.

Either way, I wouldn't bet on it that the US government will lay low and allow Tiawan to be eventually controlled by China. Taiwan is all the US have in order to have some kind of access to be very close to China's hidden agenda and with the South China Sea.

Kakamorufu:
some do

But below modern par. So it is still a wash

LordAdam:
The CCP did not sit out. They were in league with the Soviets who were part of the allied forces. The KMT and CCP decided to suspend hostilities to face the Japanese threat together. However when the war ended, they resumed hostilities. The Japanese were ordered by the US to surrender to KMT forces where present. While the Soviets handed over the territory they took from the Japanese, such as Machuria, to the CCP.

In fact, the US had to airlift KMT troops to certain areas to assume control following the Japs surrender. The trump card for the CCP in the civil war was land reform which snowballed into many experienced KMT soldiers switching over to the CCP and much of the populace favoring the CCP (the angel they don't know) over the KMT (the devil they know). In hindsight, there's nothing the US could do about that (although they could have pressed the KMT to enact more democratic reforms to combat the CCP propaganda). The KMT was authoritarian and people thought the CCP was a breath of fresh air.

Historically, many of them or their direct progeny paid for it when Mao was consolidating power and during the Great Leap when tens of millions died as a result of Mao's unbelievably stupid policies.

So there, Mao was brilliant as a revolution leader, partly the reason why he is still revered in mainland China. The KMT made things easy for him and the US made strategic errors during the war. It wasn't their last. They also made strategic errors during the Korean War, during the Sino-Indian War, later in Vietnam, and even recently with the North Korea nuclear crisis. America's exploits in Asia mirrors their exploits in the Middle East.

And this is why I'm positive Taiwan will eventually merge with China completely in the near future, China would assume full control of the South China Sea, and North Korea will eventually get whatever it is they're looking for (global recognition + retaining their nuclear arsenal). Not necessarily because the CCP is so adept at getting what they want but because the US foreign policy in Asia is often a hot steaming pile of sh*t.

-Lord

The CCP simply sat out the WW2 while the Nationalist bore the brunt of the war. Period, these bastards came later and took power when the food was ready. There is absolutely nothing revolutionary about Mao.

Beautyaddy:
Huh, the US government must have really gotten on your bad side with this bolded statement of yours.

Either way, I wouldn't bet on it that the US government will lay low and allow Tiawan to be eventually controlled by China. Taiwan is all the US have in order to have some kind of access to be very close to China's hidden agenda and with the South China Sea.

US Foreign Policy gets a jig every four or eight years. China plays the long game. Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Macau will be unified with Mainland China at some point.

Do you know between 1954 and 1979, the US had a Taiwan Defense Command with 30,000 troops permanently stationed in Taiwan (equivalent to the current troop count in South Korea). They scrapped that on a whim to please China during the Cold War. Eventually, China will stroll into Taiwan, and it'd be like Crimea all over again. Except the US wouldn't have the guts to slap sanctions on the largest economy at that time.

Whatever China wants, it gets.

-Lord

dometome:
The CCP simply sat out the WW2 while the Nationalist bore the brunt of the war. Period, these bastards came later and took power when the food was ready. There is absolutely nothing revolutionary about Mao.

The history books disagree. Amongst many other battles where the CCP fought the Japs were the Battle of Taiyuan and Battle of Wuhan.

Saying the CCP "simply sat out the WW2" is inaccurate. Also, Mao was revolutionary in his ability to topple Chiang, the KMT, and banishing them from mainland China. It's no small feat considering the sphere of influence of the Kuomintags. I don't like Mao, but his exploits should not be easily dismissed as "absolutely nothing revolutionary."

Anyway, it's been nice debating 20th century history. Remains to be seen how 21st century China will adapt to being the top dog. I don't think the CCP will survive in the long run. Everyone is mumbling under their breath now because things are rosy. When economic growth slows, the population aging problem begins to manifest, and they lose their manufacturing competitiveness (things are already cheaper in Vietnam, Cambodia...), it'd be interesting to observe how the CCP will be able to suppress 1.4+b people with more awareness who want something different.

I think like 20th century South Korea and Singapore and 18th-19th century European monarchies, the CCP will have to transform its structure or face a disastrous end. Local posts are currently already subject to direct elections, although it is mostly formality for now. I expect the transformation to start there.

-Lord

LordAdam:
US Foreign Policy gets a jig every four or eight years. China plays the long game. Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Macau will be unified with Mainland China at some point.

Do you know between 1954 and 1979, the US had a Taiwan Defense Command with 30,000 troops permanently stationed in Taiwan (equivalent to the current troop count in South Korea). They scrapped that on a whim to please China during the Cold War. Eventually, China will stroll into Taiwan, and it'd be like Crimea all over again. Except the US wouldn't have the guts to slap sanctions on the largest economy at that time.

Whatever China wants, it gets.

-Lord

Huh...I will have to find it difficult to go along with you on that bolded statement.

Sanctions on China will be determenined of what party controls the US presidency at that time.

As not very popular Trump is within the US he's the one so far that has been hard on China...and he's the one who I can kinda vouch for who will be forced to put sanctions on China if the need arise.

LordAdam:
The history books disagree. Amongst many other battles where the CCP fought the Japs were the Battle of Taiyuan and Battle of Wuhan.

Saying the CCP "simply sat out the WW2" is inaccurate. Also, Mao was revolutionary in his ability to topple Chiang, the KMT, and banishing them from mainland China. It's no small feat considering the sphere of influence of the Kuomintags. I don't like Mao, but his exploits should not be easily dismissed as "absolutely nothing revolutionary."

Anyway, it's been nice debating 20th century history. Remains to be seen how 21st century China will adapt to being the top dog. I don't think the CCP will survive in the long run. Everyone is mumbling under their breath now because things are rosy. When economic growth slows, the population aging problem begins to manifest, and they lose their manufacturing competitiveness (things are already cheaper in Vietnam, Cambodia...), it'd be interesting to observe how the CCP will be able to suppress 1.4+b people with more awareness who want something different.

I think like 20th century South Korea and Singapore and 18th-19th century European monarchies, the CCP will have to transform its structure or face a disastrous end. Local posts are currently already subject to direct elections, although it is mostly formality for now. I expect the transformation to start there.

-Lord

Yes history books written by globalists that betrayed the Chinese people into communism.
Hahahahahahahahaha! China cannot topple the US, China first of all is a highly divided country, The CCP is not even the monolithic party it portrays itself to be, there are many factions in it and they are almost on each other's neck. Jiang zhi min vs Xi jin ping is just one example, apart from that, Hu jin Tao and his immediate predecessor( I have forgotten his name) being on Zhi Ming's side. A failed coup happened recently, but you will not hear about it, and this is I think the second or third time it has happened, abd I believe that that is why Kim Jun Un prefers to dine with Trump rather than to continue with the CCP, because I can assure you that the CCP will soon implode, the infighting going on there is even worse that that of APC, and it is only getting worse. The CCP is doomed. You may not like Christianity but Jesus Christ said that any kingdom that rises against it self can never stand. All these things they are building is just to buy time.

LordAdam:
US Foreign Policy gets a jig every four or eight years. China plays the long game. Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Macau will be unified with Mainland China at some point.

Do you know between 1954 and 1979, the US had a Taiwan Defense Command with 30,000 troops permanently stationed in Taiwan (equivalent to the current troop count in South Korea). They scrapped that on a whim to please China during the Cold War. Eventually, China will stroll into Taiwan, and it'd be like Crimea all over again. Except the US wouldn't have the guts to slap sanctions on the largest economy at that time.

Whatever China wants, it gets.

-Lord

They want Taiwan, let them go and get Taiwan then.

Explorers:
The bridge is being built by three different governments in China, so it can only open when all sides are ready.

Hong Kong , Macau and China has only one final decision maker and that is China. What China says goes especially with the present no nonsense premier who does not suffer fools gladly. He no send

I have only one question and that's whether China can really afford all these expensive projects.

Readers should understand that China has been ruled by engineers since the start of communist rule and the present premier is a chemical engineer. This may explain their love for grandiose engineering projects and an over attachment to manufacturing

Many problems such as water shortages in some China cities are better resolved economically by charging proper prices for water use but preferred solution by China's rulers are through costly and wasteful engineering schemes

HsLBroker:
china is the current global super power, one day will be one day, Nigeria will become

been laughing all day @ china being global superpower...........please research meaning of superpower. thanks