oruma19:
u only know what u v been tot. This is another weakness of christianity many of us v been talking about. I can not be forced to believe because someone believes. I live by what i read from the scriptures and my conscience. Relax and study scripture, clear ur mind and see what God will say to u. Forget all those wofbi or wolbi u people attend, they teach u what they believe and many are wrong doctrines. Bible is out guide, lets use it. It is because of the brainwashing that may of these mega pentecostal churches cancelled sunday school so intelligent people wont ask questions or challenge heresy. It is well anyways. Let everybldy carry his cross.

What are you really saying in essence? How will you convince me that what others teach are wrong doctrines but your own opinion is not wrong?
All the mega Pentecostal churches you're shouting doesn't concern me, as I am not a member of any.
In this age, many men of God have written different Christian books and literature which are good for teaching and guild in our daily activities as Christians. Yet, none can be equate or replaced for Bible, especially for the epistles, which were written by men of God as well.
You sound like a Catholic. Because they have different holy scripts outside the Bible, which they used together with the Bible.

I have unshaken belief in all that is written in the Epistles, as the word of God and that they represent the mind of Jesus, despite that they were written by men. They are different from your Canonical abi what do you call it sef.

lexy2014:
which translation are u referring to?

I asked u a simple question twice, "is a wife's submission to her husband any less dignifying to a husband loving her"? All I expected from u was a simple yes or no but instead u are going back &forth even though u said u don't want to go back&forth. I also took u 2d same Ephesians 5 but to 28-29 for further emphasis and to prove d selective reading theory. But obviously, what u are accusing me of, u haven't been able to show that u aren't guilty of it.

Again, u had earlier said that work r/ship is a "human construct" and I was able to prove u wrong with scriptures that it isn't. What makes work r/ship different from marital r/ship? U seem 2b oblivious of d fact that as long as @ least 2 individuals interact with each other, there's a r/ship. U said this about marriage:

"This relationship is as a result of two people making a conscious decision to come together in a spiritual, soul and physical bond."

Does an employee & employer not make a conscious decision to come together? Yes or No? D objectives might b different but there's a word u used up there, RELATIONSHIP. If u don't understand d word r.ship&what it entails, how do u then defend ur position? So whether it is marital, business, diplomatic, political, religious, transient, etc as long as it involves d interaction of at least 2 individuals, it is a r.ship. and I told u that every r.ship has 3 things, roles, responsibilities&entitlement and let me add, expectations.and Ephesians 5 from 22 outlined those roles&responsibilities and emphasized it again in verse 33. That's y I also used d work r.ship 2 help u understand d concepts of roles, responsibilities, entitlement & expectations.

What I expected of u was 2 trash this theory with ur own facts. Critique what I said and let's no if it is not valid. Funny enough, u didnt come near it. instead u seem 2 have a grudge with d word "submission" and anyone u think is promoting it.

In ur previous post, u acknowledged that marriage was instituted by God. If that is ur position, then Gods position is explicit in Ephesians 5:22-33 as to d roles&responsibilities of couples to themselves. If u noticed,d message of verse 21, didn't reoccur in verses 22-33. So if 21 was meant 4 married couples, then it would have been reemphasized between 22-33. But what u have between 22-33 is strictly repetition and emphasis of love&submission between wife&husband without d message of 21.

If that is d case, I don't c where ur claims of oppression or illtreatment are coming from. Ephesians 5:28-29 is unambiguous and puts 2 bed any claims of oppression or ill treatment. With it, there should b no reason 4a woman 2 feel oppressed or ill treated. But as I noted earlier, its just a case of selective reading. Let me conclude with this question again: is a woman submitting to her husband any less dignifying than a husband loving her"?

Submission isn't less dignifying than the command of love. I would go further and say; love shows itself in submission, and submission in love.
Marriage is a mirror of Christ and the church. But also mirror images aren't exactly the same. You should know that...

Christ is God incarnate - all knowing, all present, almighty
A husband isn't, for obvious reasons.
And just to add to that the wife and her husband are of coequal essence. So in the real world (which isn't just black and white) and which I sense you might be having trouble connecting with the Bible for daily human interactions -
Wisdom is finite in both the husband and the wife,
unlike Christ who is all knowing
both the husband and the wife are testimonies of God's mercy and grace,
again unlike Christ, is the embodiment of righteousness, something that no man can boast of outside of Christ and so on.

And I must say submission in the present day Nigerian context is a warped disorientation of God's intended purpose.
You don't see the ill-treatments because you have conciously chosen to be oblivious to the obvious reality of so many.
The twisting of God's word for control and manipulation prevalent in the Nigerian societal structure.
If you hold submission in such high esteem it shouldn't be a problem for you to exercise it with your significant other. Because I do.

I'm choosing to ignore your extensive digression on what a relationship is, cuz obviously my stance is tackling more than just the superficial details you've decided to latch on to.

And again like I said the first time ... The conditions surrounding a Job is a human construct.
But again you decided to give a lecture on how work is God's institution explaining the obvious.

tevinsolt:


Submission isn't less dignifying than the command of love. I would go further and say; love shows itself in submission, and submission in love.
Marriage is a mirror of Christ and the church. But also mirror images aren't exactly the same. You should know that...

Christ is God incarnate - all knowing, all present, almighty
A husband isn't, for obvious reasons.
And just to add to that the wife and her husband are of coequal essence. So in the real world (which isn't just black and white) and which I sense you might be having trouble connecting with the Bible for daily human interactions -
Wisdom is finite in both the husband and the wife,
unlike Christ who is all knowing
both the husband and the wife are testimonies of God's mercy and grace,
again unlike Christ, is the embodiment of righteousness, something that no man can boast of outside of Christ and so on.

And I must say submission in the present day Nigerian context is a warped disorientation of God's intended purpose.
You don't see the ill-treatments because you have conciously chosen to be oblivious to the obvious reality of so many.
The twisting of God's word for control and manipulation prevalent in the Nigerian societal structure.
If you hold submission in such high esteem it shouldn't be a problem for you to exercise it with your significant other. Because I do.

I'm choosing to ignore your extensive digression on what a relationship is, cuz obviously my stance is tackling more than just the superficial details you've decided to latch on to.

And again like I said the first time ... The conditions surrounding a Job is a human construct.
But again you decided to give a lecture on how work is God's institution explaining the obvious.

Good. So then if its not less dignifying, then what is d issue is u are trying to prove? Because this question u just answered has removed every contention about whether d woman's responsibility of submission makes her less than her husband.

Every r.ship in d world is complementary. That's y I still go back 2d subject of roles, responsibilities & entitlement which u have done ur best to avoid. Cos if u aren't discussing what r.ship entails, then how can u talk about marriage or even understand d Ephesians 5 that u are disputing? As humans, everything about us is r.ship. d objective might b different and it is d objective that determines d mode of interaction. But in d end, roles, responsibilities & entitlement define all r.ships. if u don't agree with it, present ur facts if u have any. Its not enough 2 make sentimental statements. Present ur own argument as to what a r.ship entails. Let's compare notes.

When d Bible used Christ&d church to explain marriage, it didn't say d man&d woman have Christ's attributes of wisdom & righteousness or that d husband is or should b omnipresent, omniscient or omnipotent. It only used that as a model, an example which couples should follow, hence ephesians 5:22-33. I thought that was explicit enough. Then pls relate that 2 how I defined r.ships. it will make better sense.

if u say that job is an entirely human construct, pls I will like to read how u came about that.

U said this:

"And I must say submission in the present day Nigerian context is a warped disorientation of God's intended purpose.
You don't see the ill-treatments because you have conciously chosen to be oblivious to the obvious reality of so many."

Let me ask:
1) how is submission in present day Nigerian context a warped disorientation of Gods intended purpose? What is Gods intended purpose?
2)what are those illtreatments u are talking about? Is Ephesians 5:28-29 not adequate enough 2 make provision 4d avoidance of illtreatment?
3) what is d obvious reality?

lexy2014:


When d Bible used Christ&d church to explain marriage, it didn't say d man&d woman have Christ's attributes of wisdom & righteousness or that d husband is or should b omnipresent, omniscient or omnipotent. It only used that as a model, an example which couples should follow, hence ephesians 5:22-33. I thought that was explicit enough. Then pls relate that 2 how I defined r.ships. it will make better sense.

if u say that job is an entirely human construct, pls I will like to read how u came about that.

U said this:

"And I must say submission in the present day Nigerian context is a warped disorientation of God's intended purpose.
You don't see the ill-treatments because you have conciously chosen to be oblivious to the obvious reality of so many."

Let me ask:
1) how is submission in present day Nigerian context a warped disorientation of Gods intended purpose? What is Gods intended purpose?
2)what are those illtreatments u are talking about? Is Ephesians 5:28-29 not adequate enough 2 make provision 4d avoidance of illtreatment?
3) what is d obvious reality?

Good that you agree that the relationship between the Church and Christ is a Model. Which needs no further explanation.

The Topic of the thread was Jesus being an example of someone that showed gender equality.
For u to have found my post which was a reply to what I thought was an incoherent explosive reply, you won't tell me you didn't read through his comments and the other demented comments.

If you don't see a big problem with the disposition of those who commented on the thread, it's quite sad. But then again Nigerians are not known to be deep nuanced thinkers.

I'll ask you are Men and Women equal?

omoelerin1:
What are you really saying in essence? How will you convince me that what others teach are wrong doctrines but your own opinion is not wrong?
All the mega Pentecostal churches you're shouting doesn't concern me, as I am not a member of any.
In this age, many men of God have written different Christian books and literature which are good for teaching and guild in our daily activities as Christians. Yet, none can be equate or replaced for Bible, especially for the epistles, which were written by men of God as well.
You sound like a Catholic. Because they have different holy scripts outside the Bible, which they used together with the Bible.

I have unshaken belief in all that is written in the Epistles, as the word of God and that they represent the mind of Jesus, despite that they were written by men. They are different from your Canonical abi what do you call it sef.

i am not a catholic, never been one. Truth will set us free. Just know that.

[sup][/sup]

tevinsolt:


Good that you agree that the relationship between the Church and Christ is a Model. Which needs no further explanation.

The Topic of the thread was Jesus being an example of someone that showed gender equality.
For u to have found my post which was a reply to what I thought was an incoherent explosive reply, you won't tell me you didn't read through his comments and the other demented comments.

If you don't see a big problem with the disposition of those who commented on the thread, it's quite sad. But then again Nigerians are not known to be deep nuanced thinkers.

I'll ask you are Men and Women equal?

tevinsolt:


Good that you agree that the relationship between the Church and Christ is a Model. Which needs no further explanation.

The Topic of the thread was Jesus being an example of someone that showed gender equality.
For u to have found my post which was a reply to what I thought was an incoherent explosive reply, you won't tell me you didn't read through his comments and the other demented comments.

If you don't see a big problem with the disposition of those who commented on the thread, it's quite sad. But then again Nigerians are not known to be deep nuanced thinkers.

I'll ask you are Men and Women equal?

First, d allusion by chimaMANda that Jesus was an example of someone that showed gender equality is patronising. If it was that straightforward, then i guess he shouldnt have had 12male apostles. Jesus didn't come 2 appeal 2 our sentiments about gender or bridge d perceived gap between them. Jesus came 2 save sinners irrespective of gender, pure&simple. His mission statement in Luke 4:18-19 says it all.

ChimaMANda alleged that people in d bible were scandalized because Jesus was treating women as equals&honouring them. Jesus was sinner focused not gender focused. And people chimaMANda was talking about weren't scandalised cos Jesus "honoured" women. They were scandalized cos he associated with sinners, d dregs of society irrespective of gender. Jesus didn't honour any woman. It was women & men that honoured him not because of gender equality but because of his love 4 them despite their "sins".

D whole idea that because women were d first 2c Jesus after resurrection is a sign of gender equality is another ploy by chimaMANda to mislead people. D Jews had very elaborate burial customs which included anointing d body after death&women usually played a key role like leading burial processions. D reason Mary Magdalene & d other Mary were d first 2c Jesus after resurrection was simply because they went 2 his tomb 2 anoint his body according 2 Jewish customs& not because of gender equality.

I dont believe in using foul language 2 address people cos they dont agree with my point of view. If u feel d guys u encountered didn't agree with ur point of view, then d onus was on u 2 provide convincing argument. Superior argument always wins. Don't think because u are talking about feminism, then everyone should roll over. When I c people who begin 2 insult others cos they take alternate views, I don't c them as "deep nuanced thinkers". Cos if u were one, u will speak with ur intellect not ur emotions or sentiments.

D problem with feminists is that feminism isn't scientific. It is just a set of unproven ideas backed up mainly by sentiments. So a feminist can throw up issues but would not b able 2 defend their claims. Its either they respond with insults or they avoid d issues that have 2do with d practical. Here is a perfect example

lexy2014:


U said this:

"And I must say submission in the present day Nigerian context is a warped disorientation of God's intended purpose.
You don't see the ill-treatments because you have conciously chosen to be oblivious to the obvious reality of so many."

Let me ask:
1) how is submission in present day Nigerian context a warped disorientation of Gods intended purpose? What is Gods intended purpose?
2)what are those illtreatments u are talking about? Is Ephesians 5:28-29 not adequate enough 2 make provision 4d avoidance of illtreatment?
3) what is d obvious reality?

U raised issues but yet u aren't taking responsibility and providing clarity 4d things u say. Its typical. So provide answers 4d above questions let's c how much of a " deep nuanced thinker" u are.

lexy2014:


First, d allusion by chimaMANda that Jesus was an example of someone that showed gender equality is patronising. If it was that straightforward, then i guess he shouldnt have had 12male apostles. Jesus didn't come 2 appeal 2 our sentiments about gender or bridge d perceived gap between them. Jesus came 2 save sinners irrespective of gender, pure&simple. His mission statement in Luke 4:18-19 says it all.

ChimaMANda alleged that people in d bible were scandalized because Jesus was treating women as equals&honouring them. Jesus was sinner focused not gender focused. And people chimaMANda was talking about weren't scandalised cos Jesus "honoured" women. They were scandalized cos he associated with sinners, d dregs of society irrespective of gender. Jesus didn't honour any woman. It was women & men that honoured him not because of gender equality but because of his love 4 them despite their "sins".

D whole idea that because women were d first 2c Jesus after resurrection is a sign of gender equality is another ploy by chimaMANda to mislead people. D Jews had very elaborate burial customs which included anointing d body after death&women usually played a key role like leading burial processions. D reason Mary Magdalene & d other Mary were d first 2c Jesus after resurrection was simply because they went 2 his tomb 2 anoint his body according 2 Jewish customs& not because of gender equality.

I dont believe in using foul language 2 address people cos they dont agree with my point of view. If u feel d guys u encountered didn't agree with ur point of view, then d onus was on u 2 provide convincing argument. Superior argument always wins. Don't think because u are talking about feminism, then everyone should roll over. When I c people who begin 2 insult others cos they take alternate views, I don't c them as "deep nuanced thinkers". Cos if u were one, u will speak with ur intellect not ur emotions or sentiments.

D problem with feminists is that feminism isn't scientific. It is just a set of unproven ideas backed up mainly by sentiments. So a feminist can throw up issues but would not b able 2 defend their claims. Its either they respond with insults or they avoid d issues that have 2do with d practical. Here is a perfect example




U raised issues but yet u aren't taking responsibility and providing clarity 4d things u say. Its typical. So provide answers 4d above questions let's c how much of a " deep nuanced thinker" u are.

" problem with feminists is that feminism isn't scientific" - what in the world does this even mean?
I asked a simple question... are Women and Men equal or not?
show yourself, answer the question clear and simple and I'll take it from there

tevinsolt:


" problem with feminists is that feminism isn't scientific" - what in the world does this even mean?
I asked a simple question... are Women and Men equal or not?
show yourself, answer the question clear and simple and I'll take it from there

It simply means that feminism can't prove its theories. They are vague ideas that arent b backed by empirical facts. Below is a fine demonstration. U are just dancing round it and bringing up other issues 2 avoid d questions I asked u.

lexy2014:


U said this:

"And I must say submission in the present day Nigerian context is a warped disorientation of God's intended purpose.
You don't see the ill-treatments because you have conciously chosen to be oblivious to the obvious reality of so many."

Let me ask:
1) how is submission in present day Nigerian context a warped disorientation of Gods intended purpose? What is Gods intended purpose?
2)what are those illtreatments u are talking about? Is Ephesians 5:28-29 not adequate enough 2 make provision 4d avoidance of illtreatment?
3) what is d obvious reality?

So let's not start another discussion without concluding. If u can't defend what u say&u can't respond 2 simple questions based on issues u raised, then how do u think u deserve my answer 2 ur questions? Let's c u demonstrate ur deep nuanced thinking. U are running away from what u started and u saying u want 2 take up a new challenge when u haven't shown competence in d previous challenge. What are u taking up? Answer these, then we can begin a new front with ur question about equality. I de...I no go anywhere

lexy2014:



It simply means that feminism can't prove its theories. They are vague ideas that arent b backed by empirical facts. Below is a fine demonstration. U are just dancing round it and bringing up other issues 2 avoid d questions I asked u.



So let's not start another discussion without concluding. If u can't defend what u say&u can't respond 2 simple questions based on issues u raised, then how do u think u deserve my answer 2 ur questions? Let's c u demonstrate ur deep nuanced thinking. U are running away from what u started and u saying u want 2 take up a new challenge when u haven't shown competence in d previous challenge. What are u taking up? Answer these, then we can begin a new front with ur question about equality. I de...I no go anywhere

When you answer the question I asked, then I'll address the claims I've made.

tevinsolt:


When you answer the question I asked, then I'll address the claims I've made.

If u can't defend what u say&u can't respond 2 simple questions based on issues u raised, then how do u think u deserve my answer 2 ur question? Let's c u demonstrate ur deep nuanced thinking.