LadyExcellency:


Judas Iscariot was among the twelve in that bible passage you quoted yet Jesus lost him.

Judas Iscariot cried for his mistake and refunded the money yet he was lost. Why?

The passage you quoted stated emphatically that "No one can pluck them from him (Jesus) but you misunderstood something from that passage which is you as a person can exclude yourself by your actions and reactions. The same decision that brought someone to Salvation can be reversed by the same person leading to backsliding.

Ponder on this passage below.

2 Timothy 2:11-13
[11]It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
[12]If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
[13]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

My dear ask him ooo. Imagine if all the thrash they were spewing were to be true, then Judas wouldn't have been lost.

What about Annaias and Saphirra?

Just because they withdrew a part of their own land and they lied about that. They were still slayed by the holy spirit.

My dear, what has been has not changed.
If you truly love Jesus, you will them know that's imperative to keep his commandments and all these are enabled by his spirit who lives in us. Not by own doing cos if it were for us, sin is enjoyable mehn!
And remember we are still dust and our flesh is opposes to things of God. We need to consciously follow God step by step.

LadyExcellency:


Judas Iscariot was among the twelve in that bible passage you quoted yet Jesus lost him.

Judas Iscariot cried for his mistake and refunded the money yet he was lost. Why?

The passage you quoted stated emphatically that "No one can pluck them from him (Jesus) but you misunderstood something from that passage which is you as a person can exclude yourself by your actions and reactions. The same decision that brought someone to Salvation can be reversed by the same person leading to backsliding.

Ponder on this passage below.

2 Timothy 2:11-13
[11]It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
[12]If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
[13]If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

You claim I misunderstood a passage, yet you couldn't explain the passage to me.

Just because Judas Iscariot walked with Jesus doesn't mean he was saved. Judas was an unbeliever who only walked with Jesus because he profited from the company. He never believed in any of Jesus' words. He was never saved, therefore you can't say Jesus lost him. The requirement for salvation is believe in Jesus. Judas never believed.

There were many disciples of Jesus that were like Judas. I hope you know that asides the twelve, Jesus had other disciples. Many of those disciples walked with him but didn't believe him. When he said he will give his flesh and blood to his followers to eat and drink, many of them found it awkward. They departed from him as a result of that. You can read John 6 for more.

Even Jesus knew the ones that didn't believe in him. Take note of the bold parts in the passage below.

John 6:60-66

Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

Why did those disciples stop following him? They stopped because they didn't believe in him. They were never saved because they never believe in him.

Same thing is applicable to Judas. He never believed. Even Jesus knew from the beginning that Judas was an unbeliever. He knew he had a devil right from when he called him. Yet you say Jesus lost Judas.

John 6:70

Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?



Now read from verse 66 to verse 71 to see that Jesus always knew Judas was not his. When those disciples left Jesus and stopped following him, Jesus asked the twelve if they were going to leave as well. What did Peter say? He said they couldn't leave because they BELIEVE he has the words of ETERNAL LIFE.

Remember that Judas was among the twelve. Peter was speaking for the twelve, but Jesus quickly pointed out to him that there is still a devilish unbeliever among the twelve.


John 6:66-71 King James Version (KJV)

66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.


Judas was a devil and an unbeliever from day one. So you can't say Jesus lost him or he was plucked from Jesus hands. Once you are a believer, nothing and no one can pluck you out of God's hands.

Chinachriss:


My dear ask him ooo. Imagine if all the thrash they were spewing were to be true, then Judas wouldn't have been lost.

What about Annaias and Saphirra?

Just because they withdrew a part of their own land and they lied about that. They were still slayed by the holy spirit.

My dear, what has been has not changed.
If you truly love Jesus, you will them know that's imperative to keep his commandments and all these are enabled by his spirit who lives in us. Not by own doing cos if it were for us, sin is enjoyable mehn!
And remember we are still dust and our flesh is opposes to things of God. We need to consciously follow God step by step.

You people are truly blinded, no wonder you all worship your pastors who have sold the LIE as the truth to you.

Please scroll up to see how I explained Judas case. Judas was never saved because he was an unbeliever.

scroll up

Chinachriss:


Yes it's copied and I indicated so. That's from my fave christian blog and I always refer people there during arguments as this.

Another question:

As a university student, do you know you can be expelled? You can rusticated and every time and effort put there become total waste.

I asked a simple question, but you decided to give a question as an answer. Are you scared of answering me? That shows you don't know how you will enter heaven.

Let me ask the question again.

Picture yourself in front of the judgment throne of God. If you are asked why you should be allowed into heaven, what will be your answer?

Don't Dodge the question this time.

alBHAGDADI:
You people are truly blinded, no wonder you all worship your pastors who have sold the LIE as the truth to you.

Please scroll up to see how I explained Judas case. Judas was never saved because he was an unbeliever.

scroll up

Jesus emphasized on enduring to the end. This demand by Jesus destroys everything about eternal security. You can lose your Salvation - Period

Mark 13:13
[13]And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Eternal Salvation is reserved for the persistent. Falling away is possible and a choice.

Chinachriss:


I would say cos I believed in Jesus and trusted in him completely.

Now my turn to ask you.

What does it mean to believe in Jesus?

Let's assume you're an American or even as a Nigerian? Do you know you can lose your citizenship? You can be sentenced to death by the country you have sworn allegiance to?

@ Bold

Are you sure you trust in Jesus completely? If you trust in Jesus completely for your salvation, how come you are so hell bent on WORKS as a requirement to make heaven? Didn't the Bible tell you that ...

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Salvation is by grace through faith, not of works or any of your doing. You have been depending on yourself to save yourself, yet you claim you totally trust Jesus for your salvation. You are a joke.

Depending on your works to save you makes you no different from those people whom Jesus told "I never knew you"

Read the passage below carefully.

Matthew 7:21-23 King James Version (KJV)

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The people in the above verse we're counting k. their WORKS to save them. They left Jesus out of the equation. You are like them for you will say on that day that you didn't sin, you paid your tithe, you attended church regularly etc. Still Jesus will say he never knew you. Note that he didn't say "I use to know you". He said I NEVER KNEW YOU. Why didn't he know them despite all their WORKS?

The key is in verse 21


Matthew 7:21

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven

He didn't know them because they didn't DO THE WILL OF HIS FATHER IN HEAVEN.

What is the will of his father in heaven?

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

LOOK AT ANOTHER WILL OF THE FATHER BELOW. It shows you can never lose your salvation.

John 6:39

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.



Now, to your question. What it means to believe in Jesus Christ. READ the verse below.

Romans 10:9-10 King James Version (KJV)

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.


Nowhere in the above verses does it say you must not sin too.

LadyExcellency:



Jesus emphasized on enduring to the end. This demand by Jesus destroys everything about eternal security. You can lose your Salvation - Period

Mark 13:13
[13]And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Eternal Salvation is reserved for the persistent. Falling away is possible and a choice.

All you've been doing all day is quote scripture out of context.

That verse was speaking of the end time tribulation. It is talking about salvation as we know it now.

Read the entire chapter for better understanding.

alBHAGDADI:


All you've been doing all day is quote scripture out of context.

That verse was speaking of the end time tribulation. It is talking about salvation as we know it now.

Read the entire chapter for better understanding.

Endurance is one of the fruits of the spirit and it has meaning. Jesus emphasized on the need of abiding in the vine.

Your previous argument on John 6 was preposterous in that you classified a disciple as unbeliever. You misunderstood the passage which was against eternal security.

Many disciples of Jesus went back into sin and were lost for they followed Him "no more" (John 6:66). To argue that these people were not saved does not disprove the plain fact that they were "disciples" and had eternal life up to the time they went back (Heb 10:26-30).

If they went back, then they had something to go back from. They had something that caused them to follow Jesus in His persecutions. They were like the class in Luke 8:13 who "received the word with joy: and for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away." To believe in Christ for a moment brings eternal life and makes one a son of God (John 1:12; I John 5:1).

Even you who has chosen to teach false security make a single act of faith the only requirement for eternal salvation. So you, above all, should believe that these disciples who believed in Christ for a while had eternal life at one time.

Jesus stated that the unprofitable servant would be cast into Hell (Matt 24:45-51; 25:14-46; Rev 3:14-15.

Your argument that Demas wasn't a believer is again absurd, because He was a preacher according to Col 4:14; Philemon 24.

You preach what you believe and try to convert others. You don't labour to convert others on what you never believed.

LadyExcellency:


Endurance is one of the fruits of the spirit and it has meaning. Jesus emphasized on the need of abiding in the vine.

Your previous argument on John 6 was preposterous in that you classified a disciple as unbeliever. You misunderstood the passage which was against eternal security.

Many disciples of Jesus went back into sin and were lost for they followed Him "no more" (John 6:66). To argue that these people were not saved does not disprove the plain fact that they were "disciples" and had eternal life up to the time they went back (Heb 10:26-30).

If they went back, then they had something to go back from. They had something that caused them to follow Jesus in His persecutions. They were like the class in Luke 8:13 who "received the word with joy: and for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away." To believe in Christ for a moment brings eternal life and makes one a son of God (John 1:12; I John 5:1).

Even you who has chosen to teach false security make a single act of faith the only requirement for eternal salvation. So you, above all, should believe that these disciples who believed in Christ for a while had eternal life at one time.

Jesus stated that the unprofitable servant would be cast into Hell (Matt 24:45-51; 25:14-46; Rev 3:14-15.

Why are you saying what the Bible didn't say? That is a terrible sin. Here you said the disciples went back to sin, whereas the Bible didn't say that. The Bible simply said they followed him no more i.e they went back to unbelief. It went further to show Jesus stating why they stopped following him, which is unbelief in him. Read the passage again to see that it doesn't say they went back to sin.

John 6:60-66
60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?

62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.


Now, you quoted Luke 8:13 which typically shows an example of those disciples that went back to unbelief.

Luke 8:13

They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.


Those people had not ROOT. That is the seed that was sowed in them didn't go deep enough to have root. It didn't go deep because it fell on ROCK. Can you sow a seed on a rock and expect it to germinate? It won't germinate talk less of growing into bearing fruits. The rock it fell on is the stubborn spirit of unbelief in their hearts. That prevented it from growing.

Luke 8:6

And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.


Luke 8:13

They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.


Now, when seeds fall on good ground, it springs up and bears fruit. Read the verses below to understand better.

Luke 8:8

And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Luke 8:15


But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.


Can you now see that none of those disciples had eternal life? If they had, they won't have left the source of eternal life. Peter and the other faithful disciples would have left too, but they knew Jesus was the giver of eternal life, hence why they remained. They believed in Jesus.


John 6:66-71 King James Version (KJV)

66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

LadyExcellency:
Your argument that Demas wasn't a believer is again absurd, because He was a preacher according to Col 4:14; Philemon 24.

You preach what you believe and try to convert others. You don't labour to convert others on what you never believed.

Yes of course, Demas was a preacher, so also was Judas Iscariot and so many false prophets. Judas Iscariot even went soul winning.

Preaching doesn't mean you are saved. Anybody can preach, that doesn't mean they believe in what they preach or they are really preaching the right thing.

alBHAGDADI:

The Bible simply said they followed him no more i.e they went back to unbelief.

You just proved my point. Going back to unbelief simply means backsliding. They were saved the moment they believed in the first place.

Read the comment you quoted succinctly, this time slowly.

Secondly, Many in the seven churches in Rev 2-3 who were fallen from grace were required to repent and do their first works or else be cast off in sin and be lost. Jesus was not a good “unconditional securityite” according to His own words to these churches, for He kept rebuking, warning, and commanding Christians to meet certain conditions if they were to be saved.

alBHAGDADI:


Yes of course, Demas was a preacher, so also was Judas Iscariot and so many false prophets. Judas Iscariot even went soul winning.

Preaching doesn't mean you are saved. Anybody can preach, that doesn't mean they believe in what they preach or they are really preaching the right thing.

Please, in your own words and understanding, who is a believer?

LadyExcellency:


You just proved my point. Going back to unbelief simply means backsliding. They were saved the moment they believed in the first place.

Read the comment you quoted succinctly, this time slowly.

Secondly, Many in the seven churches in Rev 2-3 who were fallen from grace were required to repent and do their first works or else be cast off in sin and be lost. Jesus was not a good “unconditional securityite” according to His own words to these churches, for He kept rebuking, warning, and commanding Christians to meet certain conditions if they were to be saved.

Don't quote a sentence from my lengthy point and respond to it. Quote the entire point. You just quoted a bit of my post that looked like it supported your stance. Had it been you checked the entire post, you would have seen that the part you quoted doesn't support your stance.

LadyExcellency:


Please, in your own words and understanding, who is a believer?

A believer is someone who believes Jesus is the son of God and gives eternal life to those who believe in him.

A believer is someone who believes in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

A believer is someone who sees Jesus as the only means to eternity.

jiggaz:
My brother thank you for this beautiful explanation. I have just decided to ignore all these ignorant hypocrites that don't understand what was written in the Bible.

Bro,don't be quick to agree.Paul said in Romans 6:15," So what should we do? Should we sin because we are under grace and not under law? Certainly not,".


Truelly nobody can do without sinning considering human nature or world we live in but if we are GENIUINE christ followers whom holy spirit dwell in,he will help us to live right(we develop natural passion for holiness at least to some extent) and if we do sin or do anything wrong,we get a nudge from the Holy Spirit and instantly we are to ask for forgiveness. That's the grace we have as Christ followers.


Think about it,how do you differentiate true borne again christians from non borne again if he or she still keep sinning(example:lieing) despite claiming to be for christ--doing what consider by people to be a sin.And it is written that true believers are made as light to shine for others.

Read the whole romans 6 and ask Holy Spirit to teach you Himself.

alBHAGDADI:
A believer is someone who believes Jesus is the son of God and gives eternal life to those who believe in him.

A believer is someone who believes in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

A believer is someone who sees Jesus as the only means to eternity.

You definition is totally correct.

Do you know Jesus Christ had a message for Ephesians Church because she backslided?

Do you know the church at Ephesus was a church that enjoyed God's favor and grace at one time but have fallen as indicated when Christ said to it, "I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent" (Rev 2:4-5).

One losing his first love loses God, as is clear from I John 4:7-8, which shows that if one does not have love he does not have God, for God is love. Any one who does not have God (or love) does not have grace. Having fallen from all of this the church at Ephesus was ordered to repent and do its first works, or have the candlestick removed, which means that the whole church would be removed, for the candlestick represents the church (Rev 1:20).

This is another explanation against eternal security.

LadyExcellency:


You definition is totally correct.

Do you know Jesus Christ had a message for Ephesians Church because she backslided?

Do you know the church at Ephesus was a church that enjoyed God's favor and grace at one time but have fallen as indicated when Christ said to it, "I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent" (Rev 2:4-5).

One losing his first love loses God, as is clear from I John 4:7-8, which shows that if one does not have love he does not have God, for God is love. Any one who does not have God (or love) does not have grace. Having fallen from all of this the church at Ephesus was ordered to repent and do its first works, or have the candlestick removed, which means that the whole church would be removed, for the candlestick represents the church (Rev 1:20).

This is another explanation against eternal security.

You are using complicated Bible passages to explain something as simple as salvation. You my friend doesn't understand what Jesus what talking about when he spoke to the church in Ephesus. Explaining that to you will be lengthy and Might derail this thread.

alBHAGDADI:
You people are truly blinded, no wonder you all worship your pastors who have sold the LIE as the truth to you.

Please scroll up to see how I explained Judas case. Judas was never saved because he was an unbeliever.

scroll up

I have told you to believe in what you believe. Stop being unnecessarily puerile and insulting. If believing in Jesus doesn't deliver you from sin , you have no part in him cos in him there's no sin.

I rest my case.

alBHAGDADI:




I asked a simple question, but you decided to give a question as an answer. Are you scared of answering me? That shows you don't know how you will enter heaven.

Let me ask the question again.

Picture yourself in front of the judgment throne of God. If you are asked why you should be allowed into heaven, what will be your answer?

Don't Dodge the question this time.

I answered your question and asked you mine and you are prevaricating. Biko, oga swerve. Keep on believing you can be sinning and still have exclusive access to the kingdom. The way you will be jettisoned like a trash go shock you. Mtcheew!

Your type are those that will be going to church and be doing aruwala in the secret. You all will never go impunity. Keep on doing the works of your master.

I have no business with you. Shekena!

Chinachriss:

I answered your question and asked you mine and you are prevaricating. Biko, oga swerve. Keep on believing you can be sinning and still have exclusive access to the kingdom. The way you will be jettisoned like a trash go shock you. Mtcheew!

Your type are those that will be going to church and be doing aruwala in the secret. You all will never go impunity. Keep on doing the works of your master.

I have no business with you. Shekena!

You know what your problem is? Lack of comprehension. No one has said that once you are saved you have the license to sin. You are the one going about implying that.

What we've been saying all day is that "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God". The Bible says...

Romans 3:10

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

We are all sinners and we sin everyday. It is Jesus Christ that redeems us from sin and makes us righteous.

Romans 10:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

The above verse says once we believe in Jesus, we are made righteous. Yet you guys think you can attain righteousness on your own. That's why you go about keeping the law and trying hard not to sin.

Is there a man out there without sin? NO

Even you, one can still see sin you in despite you trying to hammer on not sinning. Do you want to tell me that you do not have a worldly song on your phone? If you think not sinning is what will make you make heaven, then get ready to go to hell because there will always be a sin to damn you which you might not take note of.

There is no man without sin.

Look at when that woman wanted to be stoned for adultery. What did Jesus say? He said anyone who has no sin should cast the first stone. Did anyone cast any stone? No, they all fled. They fled because they search their hearts and saw several sins. Not one of them was sinless. Yet you believe we can find a sinless man today.

We are all sinners. It is believe in Jesus that frees us from sin and makes is righteous.

Chinachriss:


I have told you to believe in what you believe. Stop being unnecessarily puerile and insulting. If believing in Jesus doesn't deliver you from sin , you have no part in him cos in him there's no sin.

I rest my case.

Believe in Jesus delivers you from the sentence of sin, not that it prevents you from sinning. You can try to be holy, but You will always sin because you are in the flesh.

What we are saying is that sin cannot prevent a believer from heaven. It is unbelief that prevents mam from heaven.

John 3:18

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

alBHAGDADI:
You are using complicated Bible passages to explain something as simple as salvation. You my friend doesn't understand what Jesus what talking about when he spoke to the church in Ephesus. Explaining that to you will be lengthy and Might derail this thread.

Practically speaking, I have seen Salvation lost and apostasy ensued. I can give examples from my local church, great brethren and sisters.

You may not know that your scripts are embedded satanic bible. I hope you got a copy and see how devilish your heresy is and how it destroyed churches of old.

Satan is using false brethren to withstood and weaken the Church by helping sin and lukewarmness advance unabated.

Christians now indulge in formication and idolatry. The two monstrously evils which the Apostolic leadership in the early Church commanded gentiles to abstain.

The bible ask a question, what can separate us from the love of God Romans 8:35
[35]Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or unclothedness, or peril, or sword?. It wasn't just a rhetoric question but a possibility. Jesus Christ hinted on the possibility when he said at a certain period of human existence, Matthew 24:22
[22]And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

May God help us all

LadyExcellency:


Practically speaking, I have seen Salvation lost and apostasy ensued. I can give examples from my local church, great brethren and sisters.

You may not know that your scripts are embedded satanic bible. I hope you got a copy and see how devilish your heresy is and how it destroyed churches of old.

Satan is using false brethren to withstood and weaken the Church by helping sin and lukewarmness advance unabated.

Christians now indulge in formication and idolatry. The two monstrously evils which the Apostolic leadership in the early Church commanded gentiles to abstain.

The bible ask a question, what can separate us from the love of God Romans 8:35
[35]Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or unclothedness, or peril, or sword?. It wasn't just a rhetoric question but a possibility. Jesus Christ hinted on the possibility when he said at a certain period of human existence, Matthew 24:22
[22]And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

May God help us all

Stop using your church as a guide. Your church is not the Bible nor an authority here.

You claim the teachings I speak of are wrong, yet I've given you Bible verses upon verses which you haven't been able to disprove. Even when you quote a verse out of context, I still show you how wrong you are.

I'm glad readers are reading this thread with an open. mind and should be able to see how blinded you are to the truth. Imagine someone like you saying Demand was saved. Imagine someone like you saying Judas was saved when the Jesus himself said otherwise. Yet you believe you stance is correct. You have worshiped your pastor a d congregation to the point of not being able to think for yourself. You dont allow the Holy Spirit to guide you in reading the Bible, you just read based on the theme your pastor has given you.

I can't force you to accept the truth. Jesus even said no one comes to him except the Father draws him. I only pray God draws you.

alBHAGDADI:
You know what your problem is? Lack of comprehension. No one has said that once you are saved you have the license to sin. You are the one going about implying that.

What we've been saying all day is that "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God". The Bible says...

Romans 3:10

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

We are all sinners and we sin everyday. It is Jesus Christ that redeems us from sin and makes us righteous.

Romans 10:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

The above verse says once we believe in Jesus, we are made righteous. Yet you guys think you can attain righteousness on your own. That's why you go about keeping the law and trying hard not to sin.

Is there a man out there without sin? NO

Even you, one can still see sin you in despite you trying to hammer on not sinning. Do you want to tell me that you do not have a worldly song on your phone? If you think not sinning is what will make you make heaven, then get ready to go to hell because there will always be a sin to damn you which you might not take note of.

There is no man without sin.

Look at when that woman wanted to be stoned for adultery. What did Jesus say? He said anyone who has no sin should cast the first stone. Did anyone cast any stone? No, they all fled. They fled because they search their hearts and saw several sins. Not one of them was sinless. Yet you believe we can find a sinless man today.

We are all sinners. It is believe in Jesus that frees us from sin and makes is righteous.

I don't play worldly songs. I play songs to the glory of God. I understand everything you wrote them. No christian is claiming that his/her righteousness saved him/ her.
Jesus did it by dying on the cross that once you believe in him, you're saved. Just like we didn't even know how and when Adam sinned but got punished for it, God through his mystery sent Jesus. We didn't know how he did it but we are saved by believing in him.Believing in him doesn't mean you will still go back to your former lifestyle. Never! We strive to be like him. We admit that we all are imperfect but the holy spirit of God in us guides us and helps us to live right.

For example,

I have not smoke.
I have not had sex.
I have taken alcohol once as a child sha.
I have masturbated but stopped since cos it affected my spiritual life.
I have zero tolerance for worldly songs. I only play christian songs cos I'm a worshipper.
I don't keep malice, envy or bear grudges with anyone.
I am totally free from the trappings of the flesh.

I was only able to achieve this cos my mum led me to Christ at an early age. I received the holy spirit who instructs me on how to live. There has been temptations but I always flee as the bible instructs. I keep on abstaining and follow God's way strictly.

Throughout my university days, I only attended our dept nights to collect my awards. I'm not trying to heap praises on myself for cheap popularity. No! I still sin but immediately it dawns on me that I have bleeped up, I will ask for forgiveness.

I did all of these cos the love of God in me was strong. How can I condescend so low to do what is unjust before my maker. Mba! My conscience will prick me that day.

Remember those that walked with the lord.

I john 5: 3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.



Matthew 5: 48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your. Father which is in heaven is perfect. Your love, faith and trust in him should be perfect.

When these are perfect, tell me how you will be plucked from his hands.

But if we intentionally keep on sinning, saying that we are mortals and that God understands. Remember Jesus was once a mortal but he didn't sin for once.

That's a standard mehn! Jesus could have yielded to the temptations of the devil. He could slept with women but Nay! he came to set a standard. Quit the deception bro.

Romans 12 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, 1 by the mercies of God, to present your bodies bas a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

2 Do not be conformed to this world, 3 but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may
e discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

Hebrews 12

Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith.

For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

God helps us all.

alBHAGDADI:
Stop using your church as a guide. Your church is not the Bible nor an authority here.

You claim the teachings I speak of are wrong, yet I've given you Bible verses upon verses which you haven't been able to disprove. Even when you quote a verse out of context, I still show you how wrong you are.

I'm glad readers are reading this thread with an open. mind and should be able to see how blinded you are to the truth. Imagine someone like you saying Demand was saved. Imagine someone like you saying Judas was saved when the Jesus himself said otherwise. Yet you believe you stance is correct. You have worshiped your pastor a d congregation to the point of not being able to think for yourself. You dont allow the Holy Spirit to guide you in reading the Bible, you just read based on the theme your pastor has given you.

I can't force you to accept the truth. Jesus even said no one comes to him except the Father draws him. I only pray God draws you.

Mr. Can't you see how flawed your analysis is. I know of many friends that believe in Jesus but they still sin. Even an unbeliever on the street will tell you he/she believes in Jesus but because he/she hasn't received him, there's still traces of the old life. That's ambiguous.
Jesus didn't call us to remain in sin. There's distinction between light and darkness.

If the Christian race should continue this way, the glory of God will depart finally. I weep for this generation.

Believing in Jesus comes with responsibility. It comes with commandments.

Even the kingdom of darkness has their rules. God's standard hasn't changed. He only made redemption open for all mankind. Before the Jews have exclusive access but now no, everybody has. That was what Jesus did.

God would have been unjust if he had to wipe out the generation of Noah, Killed the people of Sodom and destroyed evil nations only to come now to save people that will literally say the believe in Jesus while the continue in their evil ways. Abomination!

But look at what the bible says:



2 Peter 2 King James Version (KJV)


But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

(For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds

The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:



Brother, repent and be converted so that your sins will be blotted out that times of refreshing will come from the presence of the lord.

Acts 3: 19

Chinachriss:


I don't play worldly songs. I play songs to the glory of God. I understand everything you wrote them. No christian is claiming that his/her righteousness saved him/ her.
Jesus did it by dying on the cross that once you believe in him, you're saved. Just like we didn't even know how and when Adam sinned but got punished for it, God through his mystery sent Jesus. We didn't know how he did it but we are saved by believing in him.Believing in him doesn't mean you will still go back to your former lifestyle. Never! We strive to be like him. We admit that we all are imperfect but the holy spirit of God in us guides us and helps us to live right.

For example,

I have not smoke.
I have not had sex.
I have taken alcohol once as a child sha.
I have masturbated but stopped since cos it affected my spiritual life.
I have zero tolerance for worldly songs. I only play christian songs cos I'm a worshipper.
I don't keep malice, envy or bear grudges with anyone.
I am totally free from the trappings of the flesh.

I was only able to achieve this cos my mum led me to Christ at an early age. I received the holy spirit who instructs me on how to live. There has been temptations but I always flee as the bible instructs. I keep on abstaining and follow God's way strictly.

Throughout my university days, I only attended our dept nights to collect my awards. I'm not trying to heap praises on myself for cheap popularity. No! I still sin but immediately it dawns on me that I have bleeped up, I will ask for forgiveness.

I did all of these cos the love of God in me was strong. How can I condescend so low to do what is unjust before my maker. Mba! My conscience will prick me that day.

Remember those that walked with the lord.

I john 5: 3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.



Matthew 5: 48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your. Father which is in heaven is perfect. Your love, faith and trust in him should be perfect.

When these are perfect, tell me how you will be plucked from his hands.

But if we intentionally keep on sinning, saying that we are mortals and that God understands. Remember Jesus was once a mortal but he didn't sin for once.

That's a standard mehn! Jesus could have yielded to the temptations of the devil. He could slept with women but Nay! he came to set a standard. Quit the deception bro.

Romans 12 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, 1 by the mercies of God, to present your bodies bas a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

2 Do not be conformed to this world, 3 but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may
e discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

Hebrews 12

Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith.

For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

God helps us all.

You still lack comprehension y friend.

Are all the glorious WORKS which you listed going to take you to heaven? No.

Is it Jesus that will take you to heaven? YES.

Then why are you basing entering heaven on WORKS of righteousness which are filthy rags?

Isaiah's 64:6

But we are all as an unclean thing , and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags;

You still dont get it. No one is saying you can continue living a worldly life once you are saved. If you are truly saved, you won't want to. But don't forget, you are in this world and also in the flesh. This means you are still always going to sin. If you say you want to continue Sunni g as you like because you know heaven is certain based o. your salvation, then you will be punished here on earth.

Can you say because heaven is sure for you, then the next thing to do is become a murderer? If you kill someone, you will end in jail. Abstaining from sin is for your own good on earth as it keeps you away from harm. But for you to say it will prevent you from Heaven is what I call heresy from the pit of hell.

What condemns you is lack of believe in Jesus.

John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


Many people claim they believe in jesus but their heart is far from him. You are a typical example. I asked you to tell me why heaven should allow you in when you die. You replied by saying heaven should because you trust in Jesus as your saviour.

That's the word of your Mouth, not your heart. God knows your heart and will tell it is different from what your mouth says.

1 Kings 8:39
then hear in heaven Your dwelling place, and forgive and act and render to each according to all his ways, whose heart You know, for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men,

You say you trust in Jesus to save you from hell, yet here you are on earth preaching that sin can prevent one from hell and that o e must life a 100% holy life to make heaven. Then why did Jesus have to die? What you are saying in essence is that Jesus death and resurrection are useless to you because you can save yourself by not sinning. Can you now see that you don't trust Jesus at all?

Yes, the Bible encourages living a righteous and holy life filled with good WORKS, but to think that is what gets you to heaven is totally wrong. See the below verse, it shows that once you believe in Jesus and you do no WORKS, your faith will still be counted as righteousness for you.

Romans 4:5 King James Version (KJV)
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

So you see that works is not what gets you to heaven but your faith.

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

alBHAGDADI:
Stop using your church as a guide. Your church is not the Bible nor an authority here.

You claim the teachings I speak of are wrong, yet I've given you Bible verses upon verses which you haven't been able to disprove. Even when you quote a verse out of context, I still show you how wrong you are.

I'm glad readers are reading this thread with an open. mind and should be able to see how blinded you are to the truth. Imagine someone like you saying Demand was saved. Imagine someone like you saying Judas was saved when the Jesus himself said otherwise. Yet you believe you stance is correct. You have worshiped your pastor a d congregation to the point of not being able to think for yourself. You dont allow the Holy Spirit to guide you in reading the Bible, you just read based on the theme your pastor has given you.

I can't force you to accept the truth. Jesus even said no one comes to him except the Father draws him. I only pray God draws you.

I just agreed for us to disagree.

How on earth should I accept fallacy from the pit of hell?

How should I accept that Demas, Judas, Annanias and his wife, the Galileans and Galatian church weren't believers? This is complete heresy.

LadyExcellency:


I just agreed for us to disagree.

How on earth should I accept fallacy from the pit of hell?

How should I accept that Demas, Judas, Annanias and his wife, the Galileans and Galatian church weren't believers? This is complete heresy.

Your first line is all you need in that guy's case. He will never agree with clear and sound expose to the scriptures as you have kept furnishing him. God bless you for that free teaching to us all.

Only the Holy Spirit can change his mind on this discourse

It is really strange that the most critical thing in believing in Jesus which is keeping his teachings is hardly being mentioned here. It began by obedience, it is still going to end with obedience. Jesus was sent to the world by God to give us a second chance, which is the grace, to do what man didn't do in the beginning which is to obey the word of God, therefore don't expect to not keep his words and have eternal life which man lost in the beginning due to his disobedience of the word. For Jesus was the word which was in the beginning that man disobeyed, hence you must obey him to get back what man lost in the beginning which is life eternal.

jesusjnr:
It is really strange that the most critical thing in believing in Jesus which is keeping his teachings is hardly being mentioned here. It began by obedience, it is still going to end with obedience. Jesus was sent to the world by God to give us a second chance, which is the grace, to do what man didn't do in the beginning which is to obey the word of God, therefore don't expect to not keep his words and have eternal life which man lost in the beginning due to his disobedience of the word. For Jesus was the word which was in the beginning that man disobeyed, hence you must obey him to get back what man lost in the beginning which eternal.

Which Bible verse says you must obey Jesus by doing works before you have eternal life?

You are just dropping your unbiblical opinion.

jnrbayano:


Your first line is all you need in that guy's case. He will never agree with clear and sound expose to the scriptures as you have kept furnishing him. God bless you for that free teaching to us all.

Only the Holy Spirit can change his mind on this discourse

You are economical with the truth.

Someone that has been quoting scriptures wrongly is what you said used scriptures to prove me wrong?

Continue thinking you can save yourself