₦airaland Forum

Mr. Babatunde Ogala, National Legal Adviser of the ruling All Progressives Congress (APC) in this interview with TEMIDAYO AKINSUYI and CHIAMAKA OSUAGWU speaks on the crisis rocking his party, Atiku Abubakar’s threat to President Muhammadu Buhari’s reelection and other issues. Excerpts:

Your party has been enmeshed in a controversy over the fallouts of the primaries, especially in some states of the federation. There have been series of protests at the national secretariat, and recently, there were reports that some governors were trying to pass a vote of no confidence on the national chairman. Are you surprised at this development?

Firstly, I want you to know that whatever we are going through today is not unexpected. Why is that so? First, we look at the nature of how politics is played in Nigeria. We look at the fact that the stock of APC in 2018 where we are now, going forward towards the 2019 elections, is not the stock of APC in 2014. If I recall when APC was formed in 2013, a prophet of doom said it would not last one year, while we have run for five years. If you also recall, nobody gave us a chance, but of course, we went into the elections, and we won. Those who had faith in the party got elected as governors, senators, Reps and so on. Being the ruling party and looking at the nature of our politics, you will notice that in the last three or four years, there has been an influx into this party. The awareness and the appreciation of the prospects of the party is now much higher. Unlike in 2014 or 2015, where the party’s ticket was almost like yours-for-the-ask, now there is a mammoth rush for it. So, naturally, the losers will complain. No election, by the virtue of whoever agrees with me, is free and fair. Even the man who loses when votes were counted, will tell you that delegates list was manipulated against him. Even if he had all the delegates and he loses, he will still tell you that they were they were induced. We are contending with 360 House of Reps seats, 109 senate seats, 32 governorship positions, 800 or more House of Assembly seats across the nation, and for each of those seats, there is an average 5 or 6 people. So if you put all that together, we are talking about tens of thousands contending for less than 1000 seats. So it is not unexpected. When people say that the party is in turmoil, I ask them ‘in how many states’? There have been protests at the national headquarters. The protests were how many state chapters, and by how many constituencies? So if we have conducted primaries for 360 House of Representatives seats, 109 senate seats, about 800 House of Assembly seats, and 29 state governors, and we have less than 30, I think we have done very well and should be given a pass mark. In Lagos, is there no peace? Even in the state where they are saying there is turmoil, it is in about one or two seats. In Ogun for instance, it is about the governorship. We have three senators from Ogun. We have House of Reps members and we have House of Assembly members. Why is everybody not looking on the average to say all others are accepted, but for one? In Oyo, Ekiti, Osun, Ondo, Rivers, Edo, Bayelsa, Akwa Ibom, Cross River, have you heard of any turmoil? So what exactly are we talking about? Let us not make mountains out of molehills. Every party has its own challenges at times like this. We heard even the small parties are having one challenge or the other. Like it or not, believe it or not, APC is the news. What happens in APC is almost related to what is happening in Nigeria. That is why press men are all over. APC is the news that brings viewership to the television stations, listenership to the radio stations, and readership to the newspapers. It is only natural that things will be blown out of proportion. I was at a television programme when they told me that somebody said there is no problem, but that I should look at the situation in Niger. The problem they are talking about is just in one constituency in Niger, and that becomes the issue that the party is into. Notwithstanding all of that, you cannot deny the fact that there are people who will be unhappy. But the party also has an internal organism to deal with these issues. I can assure you that in the next two to three weeks, when INEC releases the list, you will see people who are ordinarily aggrieved even joining the campaigns. Look at the issue of Lagos, only this morning the governor said that he was not only going to work for APC, but he would also campaign for Buhari and Sanwo Olu. Some people somewhere, will want to cry more than the bereaved, they will tell you that there is an issue. Look at Lagos for instance, while some speculating that Ambode may leave the APC, the governor boldly came out to say I will campaign for President Buhari and Jide Sanwo- Olu. Can anybody cry more than Ambode who has shown himself to be a good party man, a true democrat, and a very,very good sportsman for which he must be commended. That is a sitting governor, and we are here talking about those that are not even candidates, but are just aspiring. Even in some cases, those that have been said to be aggrieved are not the ones complaining. It is either some godfathers or some proxies complain on their behalf.

Is there a crisis in the NWC? There have been reports that the NWC is divided over the conducts of these primaries. There have been allegations that some NWC members probably collected money from some aspirants just to get them tickets, but the national chairman stood against it, and they are now angry. How true is that?

On the NWC that I sit on, I am not aware of any crisis. If there is crisis as alleged, I would not be sitting comfortably in my office in Lagos granting this interview. As you are aware, the national chairman is out of the country, probably to rest. If there is any crisis or fire on the mountain, he wouldn’t have done that. In the NWC, there are 21 members representing various interests, different states, different expectations, different functions, and different roles. Naturally, you can’t have any debate that there won’t be disagreements, but we will all agree at some point. You win some, you will lose some. I might have my interest in a certain candidate in a certain state. What we have done as the NWC is to take in the reports of the eminent men that were sent out to go and conduct the primaries. NWC members couldn’t have been on ground, but the reports were brought, we considered them, Appeal committee was set up. Some have argued that ‘oh, you should have set up appeal committees across the states’. I know as a fact that in some states, from governorship, national assembly and House of Assembly primaries, there was no single appeal. So is it not the volume of appeals that you get that would determine the number of appeal committees that should be set up. And there is nothing saying that it is sacrosanct that you must have only one appeal committee. Some have argued that we ought to have one appeal committee for governorship, one for senate, one for House of Reps and one for House of Assembly. This means that across the state, we should have 4 committees in 36 states.

Some have argued that this is possible since the party realised enough money during the primaries…

So, if we made enough money from the sale of forms, the money should be frittered away? Do you know how much it takes to organise the primaries in all states, moving election materials, moving the committee that would do the screening, their accommodation, feeding, and allowances? Can anybody with good conscience say that of those 36 states, each one of those committees would have cost us less than N5m? So because we made money, we should fritter it, we should not prepare for the campaigns or keep money we will use in running the party, paying staff salaries? I have been a member of the NWC for three months, running almost on my cost and some goodwill. Should I not be entitled to my expenses being borne? Where is the money going to come from if we fritter everything away? The man who is saying that we have made enough money, does he know the cost of defending a single litigation? What have we done? Alternative Dispute Resolution. It is a style that we have adopted and it is giving me results. By this, the party is not spending much money on litigations as we ought to. We are still going to face elections across 29 states, 109 senatorial districts, 360 House of Representatives, and over 800 Houses of Assembly. We still have that to contend with. In some cases, there will be petitions by the other parties which we must defend, 97 parties on the ballots. So let’s assume half of them file suits in courts, should we not keep money for that? The national convention we had, was money not spent? The congresses that were conducted across the states, was money not spent? Even the reconciliation process, is it not going to cost us money? Some have argued that some people are aggrieved in some instances, let their money be refunded. Where will that money come from if we fritter it all away? So, it doesn’t make sense when people say there is money, and we shouldn’t save for the rainy says.

There is a report that Mr. President asked the national chairman to clear the mess caused by the primaries. How will you clear the mess that this primary has generated?

What mess? Some of our members are aggrieved, and we have said that we are putting in place internal dispute regulation mechanism. Like the report said, the President also promised that he will also help in the process. I am aware that the leaders of the party are working, I am aware there is a lot of shuttle diplomacy going on, I am aware that a lot of consultations are going on, and I am also aware that some big fishes are also coming over to the party. So where is the mess? Is it unexpected? PDP also have the same issues, not to talk of the very small parties. We are bound to have emotional outbursts. Like I have often said, I receive loads of petition on a daily basis. The appeal committee has been set up, and there is yet another organ called the NWC that you could further appeal to, and there is also NEC and there is also national convention.

Don’t you think the PDP might want to latch on to this supposed crisis to get some of your members into their party? We realise some senators are aggrieved, Senator Shehu Sani has left, some other law makers are aggrieved in the House of Reps, and according to reports , about 50 are going over to the PDP. Are you not worried about this?

They also have aggrieved members but if you are a true party man, that would not lure you, because what are you going to get when you get there? All primary elections are concluded, so what is the attraction? Like I said, it is only natural for any party to want to take advantage. But we on our part, using our internal dispute resolution mechanism.

As the national legal adviser of your party, are you not worried by this development in Zamfara and the latest one in Rivers?

As the national legal adviser, I only read in the papers that the Supreme Court made some decisions about the grant otherwise refusal of an injunction. But I have not seen the orders the court made. It is expected that whichever of the contending parties of the aggrieved persons that went to court, it expected that it will serve the processes on the national secretariat of the party, through my office. As I speak now, I have not seen them.

So your party is insisting on fielding candidates in Zamfara? What if INEC does not approve it?

Why won’t INEC approve it? It is not for them to approve. The guideline says that the parties should conclude primaries on a certain date. The guidelines, not the law. Don’t forget Section 31 of the Electoral Act says 60 days before election. Like it was determined in the case of Wike vs Peterside, INEC guideline cannot supersede the extant provisions of the law, the law says 60 days. However, we will cooperate with INEC. We do not imagine that INEC itself was hasty to issue that unfortunate statement that APC cannot field candidates in that state. Why would they say that? They have not even queried us to ask the reason why the primaries were not conducted. I think I was seeing the papers this morning, and there was the result of some primaries with INEC certification. Someone is going to say that INEC Zamfara is different from INEC at the national level. So was the national body not hasty to have drawn the conclusions it drew without liaising with its components at Zamfara state? It made its decision without even querying the party to say “we heard information that you may not have conducted primary election in Zamfara, and by the provisions of the law, we will not be able to filter it until you convince us otherwise.” It just went to the media, they didn’t even write to us. And we publicly replied to tell INEC that it should do the right thing, and ask us questions before drawing conclusions. We are choosing candidates in Zamfara, certainly. INEC has not come out to say that they would not accept. Until they do that, then we will know what to do. We can just assume that the statement was made in error.

Some have also argued that if the one year extension granted by the NEC before the election was held and the Oyegun-led NWC was allowed to remain in office, this crisis would not have happened. Do you share that view?

If there is a crisis, would you go out of the way to create an extension? Or if there is an insurgency in the country, would you go ahead to extend the tenure of the President without following the law? What does the constitution and the Electoral Act say about tenure of elected officers? What was the argument? An extension was erroneously granted, and when the mistake was realised, it was reversed and we went into convention. So to say that it would have averted crisis, how would it have averted crisis? Would it be that the people who are complaining would not have complained that they are aggrieved over the election? Would it be that if they had granted an extension to NEC for another one year, people would not have come out to contest? Would it be that if that extension had been granted, there would not be a 2019 general election? How would that have changed anything?

Do you see the PDP Presidential candidate, Atiku Abubakar as a threat to President Muhammadu Buhari in the 2019 presidential election?

When Atiku emerged as the presidential candidate of PDP at the convention in Port Harcourt, in the first week, there was euphoria. Is that euphoria still there? The answer is no. Some people said that he is a threat to Buhari, but I said that he is not a threat. He has exhausted everything he has to say about the APC. I am challenging everyone publicly to please tell us where the jobs created by Atiku are. I am challenging Atiku and his campaign team to point to any company in the Corporate Affairs Commission (CAC) that carries his name as an owner or part-owner. If indeed you are using proxy, what are you hiding? American University which they have made so much noise about, the American conventional committee has clearly stated that there are some millions of dollars given as bribe by Siemens was used towards the establishment of that university? Is that a man that is a threat to us? A man who is today talking about the Obasanjo-Atiku administration where for over four years, the Obasanjo that he is talking about, kept telling Nigerians that this is not a deputy. You are talking about the candidate who we claim that they created jobs. Is it in the Nigerian Airways that they sold, NITEL? The Discos? Where is NICON? They only sold to their proxies, stripped the assets and laid off workers. Where are the jobs they created? He said he owned part of Intels until Hadiza Bala Usman said ‘you cannot be collecting money on my behalf and you be paying me. You will collect and I will pay you commission’. Was it not then that Volpi came out and said I own Intels, not Atiku. How much was Atiku’s investment in Intels?

yarimo:
GOODLUCK jonathan remains PDP Last president of Nigeria according to majority of Nigerians.

hisexcellency34:
what if Atiku wins?

Chosen1984:
Who is Ogala?

PassingShot:
Where are the jobs?Atiku is a conman supported by conmen and those who love Yahoo Yahoo and stolen money.