₦airaland Forum

blueAgent:
It was your Church that stole from pagans go and read about your Church history with an unbaised mind.

One would say you should "go and read about your Church history with an unbiased mind". Or do you know that it is his church that is the foundation of your church, and that your church would most likely not exist if his church had not done the foundational work which your church "stole"?

You might want to read up on wiki, and All about. When you done with the above, and learnt from Alice et al, you may then advance to A Source Book for Ancient Church History From the Apostolic Age to the Close of the Conciliar Period by Joseph Cullen Ayer, Jr., Ph.D.

blueAgent:
It was your Church that stole from pagans go and read about your Church history with an unbaised mind.

You mean "with an ANTI CATHOLIC mind?"

Ubenedictus:
The Bible says thou shall not bear false witness dear.

Catholics have been consistent in insisting that Mary is simply human and should not be adored it is a sin called idolatry and any Catholic who holds such opinion is condemned by the church under anathema since that is a serious heresy.

in ancient religion there are also gods called king of kings, Lord of lords, divine, savior, first and last, and several thousand names, that didn't stop Christians from using all those titles for Jesus, even many titles Yorubas use for Jesus comes from their local deities.

This appropriation is not new nor sinful, if false gods use a title the belongs to God we remove those titles from them, if false heroes take titles that grace have given to others, we removed the false heroes and give the titles to those who have been given the grace. It doesn't mean we worship false gods, instead we removed titles from false illusions and give it to those who deserve such either by nature or by grace.





This is an unfortunate lie,

The honor of Mary, the apostles and martyrs in the Christian churches was already a solid and clear practice even before the birth of Constantine or even his parents, so too the asking of their intercession.

The false story that it began during Constantine to merge other religions is a lie peddled by either those ignorant of the early church or out to deceive others.
In the early church even before Constantine Mary is referred to as the new Eve who rolls back the disobedience of the old Eve

"As Eve was seduced by the speech of an angel, so as to flee God in transgressing his word, so also Mary received the good tidings by means of the angel's speech, so as to be God within her, being obedient to this word. And though the one had disobeyed God, yet the other was drawn to obey him; that of the virgin Eve, the virgin Mary might become the advocate and as by a virgin the human race had been bound to death, by a virgin it is saved, the balance being preserved- a virgin's disobedience by a virgin' obedience." (Against Heresies, 3, 19 130 A.D

For whereas Eve, yet a virgin and undefiled, through conceiving the word that came from the serpent, brought forth disobedience and death; the Virgin Mary, taking faith and joy, when the Angel told her the good tidings that the Spirit of the Lord should come upon her, and the power of the Most High overshadow her, and therefore the Holy One to be born of her should be the Son of God, answered, Be it done to me according to thy word. And so by means of her was he born, concerning whom we have shown so many Scriptures were spoken; through whom God overthrows the serpent, and those angels and men who have become like to it, and on the other hand, works deliverance from death for such as repent of their evil doings and believe in him (Dialogue with Trypho, 100 A.D.)

Along with titles like mother of God, ever virgin, etc. Her intercession is requested even in the early church

We fly to your patronage, O holy Theotokos; despise not our petition in our necessities, but deliver us always from all dangers, O ever-glorious and blessed Virgin." 3rd century


Check all those dates, those are Christian leaders before Constantine.
the worship of any deity is still prohibited in the Catholic church as it always was.

I couldn't have said something better.
thank you, but if only they will understand

UbiPetrus:
You mean "with an ANTI CATHOLIC mind?"

No with an Anti-false doctrine mind.

budaatum:
One would say you should "go and read about your Church history with an unbiased mind". Or do you know that it is his church that is the foundation of your church, and that your church would most likely not exist if his church had not done the foundational work which your church "stole"?

You might want to read up on wiki, and All about. When you done with the above, and learnt from Alice et al, you may then advance to A Source Book for Ancient Church History From the Apostolic Age to the Close of the Conciliar Period by Joseph Cullen Ayer, Jr., Ph.D.

Lie.

The Church foundation was laid in Judea by Jesus and was ushered in on the day of pentecost from there it spread to every part of the World.
What your Church did was to hijack what was already existing using their power from Rome to dictate and claim it was started by them.

Ubenedictus:
I saw the synonyms, thank God a synonym cannot be used to replace the original word in every instance.


Your synonym says that honor is a synonym for worship, praise too is a synonym for worship, esteem, treasure and cherish are also synonym for worship.

If a synonym could always replace the original that would mean;

Every time I honored my parents I was committing idolatry,
Every time my mum praised me she was and idolaters

Every time couples in church promised to cherish one another and I esteemed my wife or a friend that mean I was worshipping abi?

Fa fa fa fowl, doesn't work like that dear, I can cherish and treasure and esteem my wife without worshipping her, praise my parents and not worship them and venerate(honor) without ascribing divinity to her or worshipping her.

Get that?

Keep fooling yourself.

Let me ask you is their anything you Catholic atrribute or give to God that you don't give to Mary? I mean anything.

Ubenedictus:
F so worship is the honor you give to someone you consider to be a deity and the accompanying religious ceremony, in the archaic sense it can mean a title or honor given to someone as a recognition of merit, that is what the above say abi?

Then it is clear that if you are speaking in the first sense then Catholics CAN'T BE WORSHIPING Mary because they don't consider her to be deity and worship is what one offers to deity.

Veneration on the other hand

Definition of venerate
: to regard with reverential respect or with
admiring deference
1
: to honor (an icon, a relic, etc.) with a ritual
act of devotion



Choose the Right Synonym for venerate
REVERE , REVERENCE , VENERATE, WORSHIP, ADORE
mean to honor and admire profoundly and
respectfully. REVERE stresses deference and
tenderness of feeling. // a professor revered by her
students // REVERENCE presupposes an intrinsic
merit and inviolability in the one honored and a
similar depth of feeling in the one honoring. //
reverenced the academy's code of honor //
VENERATE implies a holding as holy or sacrosanct
because of character, association, or age. // heroes
still venerated // WORSHIP implies homage usually
expressed in words or ceremony. // worships their
memory // ADORE implies love and stresses the
notion of an individual and personal attachment. //
we adored our doctor //
What's the Difference Between venerate ,
revere , and reverence ?
Venerate , revere , reverence , worship, and adore all
mean to honor and admire profoundly and
respectfully. Venerate implies a holding as holy or
sacrosanct because of character, association, or
age. Revere stresses deference and tenderness of
feeling ("a professor revered by students"wink.
Reverence presupposes an intrinsic merit and
inviolability in the one honored and a similar depth of
feeling in the one honoring ("she reverenced the
academy's code of honor"wink. Worship implies homage
usually expressed in words or ceremony ("he
worships their memory"wink. Adore implies love and
stresses the notion of an individual and personal
attachment ("we adored our doctor"wink. Venerate ,
incidentally, traces back to the Latin verb venerari,
from vener -, meaning "love" or "charm."
Examples of venerate in a Sentence
// a writer venerated by generations of admirers
// She is venerated as a saint.
Recent Examples on the Web
// One of the key thinkers venerated by Putin and his
circle is a hitherto obscure Russian fascist, Ivan
Ilyin, whose views are absurd but terrifying in their
implications.
— Margaret Macmillan, New York Times, "Are We Traveling the
‘Road to Unfreedom’?," 9 May 2018
// Madikizela-Mandela was persecuted by the
apartheid government, and venerated by many South
Africans, because of her activism against white
minority rule.
— Washington Post , "South Africa declares mourning period for
Madikizela-Mandela," 3 Apr. 2018
// Discretion is different now; it is practiced less, it
is venerated less.
— Meagan Fredette, refinery29.com , "Are Justin Bieber &
Ariana Grande Trying To One-Up Each Other On PDA?," 14 July
2018
// Social media's problems stem not just from
internet companies' business strategies but from the
technologies the companies use and venerate.
— Nicholas Carr, chicagotribune.com , "Is Facebook the problem
with Facebook, or is it us?," 10 July 2018
// Every day, the whole world seems to venerate
mothers, but for you, Mother’s Day is the worst.
— Yvonne Abraham, BostonGlobe.com , "For women who have
trouble conceiving, Mother’s Day can be the worst," 12 May
2018
// The comment made Lugo reflect on whose faces
get venerated on vases.
— Cassie Owens, Philly.com , "Throwing down: How this potter
from Kensington found fine art success," 26 June 2018
// Mexico may venerate its teachers, but that seems
not to have translated into learning.
— The Economist , "Mexico’s crucial education reform risks
being unwound," 31 May 2018
// Long- venerated as a trading powerhouse, Goldman
Sachs has struggled to regain its foothold there
since the financial crisis.
— Fortune , "Goldman Sachs Group," 29 Mar. 2018


Merriam-webster dictionary.


That is more like it.

You can fool others not me or God.

The word Worship,Venerate,adore,reverance when used in a religeous context means alligeance or submission to authority.
Veneration of Mary is in a religeous context and is totally different from what you are fabricating Only God should be our subject of worship,veneration,reverance,praise, no one else


every other use of this words should be outside of religeous context.

The question you will ask yourself is did God permit us to venerate Mary or any other person remember this same God hid the body and grave of Moses to avoid the Israelities from turning Moses dead body or grave into a diety just as you and your church has turned Mary into.

Venerate , revere , reverence , worship, and adore all mean to honor and admire profoundly and respectfully. Venerate implies a holding as holy or sacrosanct

Ubenedictus:
it is you who seem ignorant of history! Pagans claim Jesus is a pagan god that the church stole from them, then you go and find a quote that says Mary is a god stolen from pagans.

Is it not double standard that you are quick to agree with pagans that Mary was stolen but you will be the first to reject their claim that Jesus too was stolen? You appeal to pagans when it suits you and run away with your tail between your legs when it doesn't.

Good you exposed yourself. The pagans claim against Jesus is false becos We have God's word as a prove but there is no record of the early church venerating or worshipping Mary neither is their any evidence in the Bible that God approves it.

Ubenedictus:
oh sorry, you want to be spoon fed, the Bible already told you add one to one but you are still waiting for it to tell you two.

Sorry, the reversal of the old Adam and the old Eve sin is a mother and child, the child is Jesus, his mother is Mary, Jesus is the new Adam, the antitype of the old Adam, that makes Mary the antitype of the old Eve, the new Eve.


If you still can't make the addition then am not to blame, look within for whom to blame, at least the early Christians I quoted tried to explain it for you.

Sorry if you still can't get it.

Lastly I always accept scripture, as a Catholic I have no option, the Bible is God's word and that is dogma, which means I can never shake it. What I don't accept is your erroneous, fallible interpretation of the Bible.

Pure fallacy.

Ubenedictus:
did you learn this word newly?

Oya what type of fallacy did I commit?

Have you done your research or are you still speaking from ignorance.

Is the mother of the davidic king not the Queen mother?

Is Jesus not a King in that line?

You don't know anything more than God.

It was God that instructed the angels and man to venerate,adore,reverance,praise his Son Jesus and i wonder why he did not remember
to add Mary

Pls if you know the reason you can tell me.

The same God who knows the end of a thing from the begining cannot just forget to tell us the importances to venerate Mary
After all he insistuted many Christain doctrines like baptism,Holy communion,
fasting,praying but while he left out Mary still disturbes me.

Hebrews 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

MuttleyLaff:
"Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men,
as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit"
- Ephesians 3:5

"Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling,
fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest."
- Hebrews 3:1

"For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy:
and if the root be holy, so are the branches."
- Romans 11:16

No.1 Mary had Sin and was never sinless

2. what ever righteousnesses or Holiness a man has is like a rag before God's Holiness not excluding Mary's on Holiness.
No matter how many bible verses you bring know that Mary had Sin.

Isaiah 6, 7. -- "All our righteousnesses are
as filthy rags, and we all do fade as a leaf, and
our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us
away."

In Luke 1:46-47, Mary said: “My soul doth
magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced
in God my Saviour." Mary knew that she
needed a savior.


Romans 3:23 says “For all have sinned, and
come short of the glory of God." Revelation
15:4 says, “Who shall not fear thee, O Lord,
and glorify thy name? For thou only art
holy." Romans 3:10 says, “There is none
righteous, no, not one."

budaatum:
You're the one who said you don't read! Were you lying?

Do know that the issue here is not about knowledge, but about understanding, which you have not really shown that you have!

Why are you trying to change the goal post?

Yale9:
now rate yourself... and then CRY.. Cos u really should

Trying so hard to boost your ego.

Yale9:
surely a question u could never ever answer. Judge yourself and then.. CRY! You really should

Over 5days now and you still cannot tell me what Worship means.

blueAgent:
No.1 Mary had Sin and was never sinless

2. what ever righteousnesses or Holiness a man has is like a rag before God's Holiness not excluding Mary's on Holiness.
No matter how many bible verses you bring know that Mary had Sin.

Isaiah 6, 7.
-- "All our righteousnesses are
as filthy rags, and we all do fade as a leaf, and
our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us
away."

In Luke 1:46-47, Mary said: “My soul doth
magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced
in God my Saviour." Mary knew that she
needed a savior.


Romans 3:23 says “For all have sinned, and
come short of the glory of God." Revelation
15:4 says, “Who shall not fear thee, O Lord,
and glorify thy name? For thou only art
holy." Romans 3:10 says, “There is none
righteous, no, not one."

You are doing a strawman

blueAgent:
No with an Anti-false doctrine mind.

Your idea of objectivity has always been anti Catholic.
How about you study again (assuming you have studied before) with an (indeed) unbiased mind?

blueAgent:
Lie.

The Church foundation was laid in Judea by Jesus and was ushered in on the day of pentecost from there it spread to every part of the World.
What your Church did was to hijack what was already existing using their power from Rome to dictate and claim it was started by them.

Not, "started by them", more like, 'standing on the shoulders of predecessors'. Jesus Christ, after all, could be said to have "hijack[ed] what was already existing", taking extra care not to abolish, but to fulfil what already existed.

I wonder how much of this Jesus Christ you've actually read about, for you sound more like one of those who dips into the Jesus book randomly seeking "knowledge", and not like one who has started at the beginning and worked through to the end in order to gain 'understanding'. If you had read from the beginning, you'd of more likely have said the foundation was laid way back in the Garden of Eden or at least by Moses!

blueAgent:
Over 5days now and you still cannot tell me what Worship means.

if you're ignorant of what the worship of an entity (as a god)entails, how is it my problem? I owe you no turorial

blueAgent:
Trying so hard to boost your ego.

no wonder, your line of judgements are the way they are.

blueAgent:
Pure fallacy.

sorry dear you don't even know the meaning of fallacy, if you did you'll know that what I wrote above is on point. she is the new Eve. if you were interested in using your brains instead of your bias you would have learnt something.

blueAgent:
Good you exposed yourself. The pagans claim against Jesus is false becos We have God's word as a prove but there is no record of the early church venerating or worshipping Mary neither is their any evidence in the Bible that God approves it.

you just seem blind, so you didn't see the Bible approving the veneration of Mary abi.

the woman God himself honored abi?
what is this?
Luke 1:48
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“For he has regarded the lowliness of his
Maidservant, for behold, from this hour all
generations will ascribe blessedness to me.”

budaatum:
One would say you should "go and read about your Church history with an unbiased mind". Or do you know that it is his church that is the foundation of your church, and that your church would most likely not exist if his church had not done the foundational work which your church "stole"?

You might want to read up on wiki, and All about. When you done with the above, and learnt from Alice et al, you may then advance to A Source Book for Ancient Church History From the Apostolic Age to the Close of the Conciliar Period by Joseph Cullen Ayer, Jr., Ph.D.

it is weird ignorance. I am always laughing when Protestants speak like that, heck, you guys all came from that same history, Protestantism doesn't have any link to the apostles except from the fact that they came from the Catholic church.

blueAgent:
Lie.

The Church foundation was laid in Judea by Jesus and was ushered in on the day of pentecost from there it spread to every part of the World.
What your Church did was to hijack what was already existing using their power from Rome to dictate and claim it was started by them.

the same church laid in Jerusalem, soon moved it prime center to Antioch and later to Rome.


nobody hijacked it, the church is the bride of Christ and Jesus promised to be with her to the end of the ages, it can't be hijacked.

blueAgent:
You don't know anything more than God.

It was God that instructed the angels and man to venerate,adore,reverance,praise his Son Jesus and i wonder why he did not remember
to add Mary

Pls if you know the reason you can tell me.

The same God who knows the end of a thing from the begining cannot just forget to tell us the importances to venerate Mary
After all he insistuted many Christain doctrines like baptism,Holy communion,
fasting,praying but while he left out Mary still disturbes me.

Hebrews 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

it is you who skipped the part where God tells us to honor Mary, Jesus honored her, are we not to imitate him.

heck the Bible tells us to do so in black and white.



Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“For he has regarded the lowliness of his
Maidservant, for behold, from this hour all
generations will ascribe blessedness to me.”

Ubenedictus:
it is you who skipped the part where God tells us to honor Mary, Jesus honored her, are we not to imitate him.

heck the Bible tells us to do so in black and white.



Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“For he has regarded the lowliness of his
Maidservant, for behold, from this hour all
generations will ascribe blessedness to me.”

Which bible verse did God tell us?

Ubenedictus:
the same church laid in Jerusalem, soon moved it prime center to Antioch and later to Rome.


nobody hijacked it, the church is the bride of Christ and Jesus promised to be with her to the end of the ages, it can't be hijacked.

The Church never moved its headquarters your Church highjacked the early church.

Ubenedictus:
you just seem blind, so you didn't see the Bible approving the veneration of Mary abi.

the woman God himself honored abi?
what is this?
Luke 1:48
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“For he has regarded the lowliness of his
Maidservant, for behold, from this hour all
generations will ascribe blessedness to me.”

How does this bible verse imply that we should pray,venerate,worship or exalt Mary?

many great personalities in the Bible were blessed and honoured by God yet we don't pray or venerate them

Ubenedictus:
sorry dear you don't even know the meaning of fallacy, if you did you'll know that what I wrote above is on point. she is the new Eve. if you were interested in using your brains instead of your bias you would have learnt something.

I laugh at you.

No where its is written tha Mary is the new Eve or that she played a role in the salvation of humanity.

Yale9:
if you're ignorant of what the worship of an entity (as a god)entails, how is it my problem? I owe you no turorial

Coward you don't even know the definition of Worship.

budaatum:
Not, "started by them", more like, 'standing on the shoulders of predecessors'. Jesus Christ, after all, could be said to have "hijack[ed] what was already existing", taking extra care not to abolish, but to fulfil what already existed.

I wonder how much of this Jesus Christ you've actually read about, for you sound more like one of those who dips into the Jesus book randomly seeking "knowledge", and not like one who has started at the beginning and worked through to the end in order to gain 'understanding'. If you had read from the beginning, you'd of more likely have said the foundation was laid way back in the Garden of Eden or at least by Moses!

Aleast it was never your Church that insistuted the first Church or Christainity.

UbiPetrus:
Your idea of objectivity has always been anti Catholic.
How about you study again (assuming you have studied before) with an (indeed) unbiased mind?

You can go through my profile and articles i write on anything that is contrary to God's word not just on Catholics alone.

MuttleyLaff:
You are doing a strawman

Then disprove me if you can.