Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God - Religion - Nairaland
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God (12336 Views)
A Discussion Thread For Johnydon22 And I / 10 Kinds Of Christians That Put A Smile On God's Face / Inviting Tithers To A Theological Discuss with Miwerds and Candour On Tithing (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) ... (20) (Reply) (Go Down)
| Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by DrummaBoy(m): 8:07pm On Dec 22, 2013 |
This thread is a continuation of the discussion on this post: https://www.nairaland.com/1540233/inviting-tithers-theological-discuss-miwerds/18#20379281 So rudedough, I again want to thank for offering to come to this discuss with me (and others who may be interested). As much as I will ask questions, I want to make it clear that you have the liberty to ask your questions to. For our viewers, rudedough is atheist. I am a Christian. I am entering this discuss with him to understand his position better and probably be able to present the person of Jesus Christ to him. Hopefully he will see "reason" in my presentation and come to faith in Christ. If not, I am sure it will be a worthwhile discuss and many will benefit from it. BTW, rudedough and I share something in common: we both do not believe that Christians are to tithe today. So, back to you sir, rudedough: First question. Your presentations and posts on tithe thread reveals an individual who does not have a head knowledge of scriptures but a heart one also. Have you ever been a Christian/Believer in Christ? If yes, when did you decide to stop believing in God and turn to atheism and what informed this decision? Thank you sir and looking forward to your response. - DrummaBoy. 2 Likes |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by PastorKun(m): 8:18pm On Dec 22, 2013 |
Following even though I don't believe rudedough is atheist, at worst he is deist or agnostic. |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by Nobody: 8:24pm On Dec 22, 2013 |
Would be funny if drummaboy ends up losing his faith on this thread  Following... 2 Likes |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by DrummaBoy(m): 8:42pm On Dec 22, 2013 |
aManFromMars: Would be funny if drummaboy ends up losing his faith on this thread I had thought this sentiments will be expressed on the thread. But I wish to make it clear even from the onset that my belief in Jesus Christ is way beyond "reason" or "faith". I know the man - the man Christ, and my life mission is to make him known. I however believe in reason, as Christ is Wisdom himself and He makes perfect sense. I believe that in my interaction with men, I can bring them to understand the Lord; and that itself is the conversion we are talking about. And I believe in faith. Trusting without seeing. I see that when you understand, you still may not comprehend all that is about God; like most of us Theist. So, that little bit is what faith takes care of. We believe in God and his Holy Son Jesus Christ! Oops sorry O, I think I have started the chat even in the absence of my friend, rudedough. |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by Image123(m): 8:50pm On Dec 22, 2013 |
aManFromMars: Would be funny if drummaboy ends up losing his faith on this thread Like you ended up misusing yours? |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by Nobody: 8:53pm On Dec 22, 2013 |
DrummaBoy:No p. I don't think rudedough will mind.  |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by Nobody: 8:53pm On Dec 22, 2013 |
Image123:Merry Xmas to you too |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by DrummaBoy(m): 8:57pm On Dec 22, 2013 |
aManFromMars: Lol!!! Now that gave me a good laugh. I am sure their is nothing X-mas in that quote by Image said. Merry X-mas in advance to all Nairalanders, BTW!!!! |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by PastorKun(m): 9:50pm On Dec 22, 2013 |
DrummaBoy: What most of these disgruntled atheist don't understand is that for some of us, Christ goes beyond faith or belief. Some of us have physically encountered Christ and THAT is our testimony. |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by Nobody: 10:26pm On Dec 22, 2013 |
Pastor Kun: lol, muslims also claim to experience Allah. Macof said he has experienced Osun. Whatever reasons you have for not accepting them, consider it a reason not to accept yours. Make i no derail the thread. #silently following# 1 Like |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by Nobody: 10:59pm On Dec 22, 2013 |
Wow... The discuss has already begun without me. I was actually playing SIMCity 4 before i saw the new thread. You need to see my New city  I am here now but i need a few more minutes to refresh myself before joining you. Thank you Drummerboy for inviting me to this discuss, i will try as much as possible to be fair in my criticism and i hope that you and the audience will respect that i am an Atheist with a sound knowledge of both the Bible and Qur'an. Please no hand picking verses, no back and forth argument and no excuses. We shall understand the position of the bible and who God and Jesus truly are. Cheers. 2 Likes |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by Nobody: 12:20am On Dec 23, 2013 |
DrummaBoy: This thread is a continuation of the discussion on this post: https://www.nairaland.com/1540233/inviting-tithers-theological-discuss-miwerds/18#20379281 [b]I was born into a Christian catholic family, my parents are devoted Catholics, they still are up till this date. I went through all the rigorous routine in Catholicism. The catechism, 1st holy communion, confirmation etc. Since i was a Child, i have been very curious about God, i tried to read the bible from Genesis many times but my mind was too weak to understand the bible and I always fall asleep while reading it.Being a Catholic wasn't fun for me cos i didn't enjoy reciting the Latin liturgy which i didn't understand. One Sunday, while my dad was reciting the Latin liturgy in Church, i tapped him and asked what the meaning was but he answered "It's a prayer". Then i realize he didn't know what he was reciting either.Soon, i stopped going to Church with my dad and i joined my neighbor who was an Anglican to their Church. My dad didn't like it but i was too stubborn to be persuaded. At the Anglican Church, i liked the praises and bands, music and stuff. I did have a good time but the teaching was kind of confusing cos the Pastor was handpicking verses and he'll asks us to open our bible to Matt but before i open the verse, he has asked for another verse and another verse and another verse. I was frustrated so i stopped going to that Church and went back to my dad's Church. Olatunde was my best friend in high school, he was a Muslim and he always goes to the mosque so i join him whenever he's going and i'll offer the Jumu'ah with him. I did all these at a very early age. As i grow older, I became very interested in religion, both in Islam and Christianity. I became very religious, more religious than you could ever imagine. That was when i decided to study the bible. I went back to Genesis and studied the Old Testament through to the last. What i read about God was unbelievable, i couldn't believe what i read, i was in shock cos i least expected that our "Merciful" and "Loving" father could be so heartless and yet proud of it. I didn't believe it at the time, i tried to overcome what i have read; i still went to Church, sang praises and all. Then i thought to read the bible again just to be sure i wasn't misled. This time, i read through to the New Testament and read about Jesus. Then i read it the 3rd time, i even bought a note book and took record of everything God did that i considered heartless and unfair. Then i went to my father and asked him about all these things, but instead of him explaining to me, he became extremely violent and i can still remember how his face looked while he beat the hell out of me for calling God wicked. That's what religion can do to a man. Then i started withdrawing my steps from Christianity but i thought Islam was better so i studied the Holy Qur’an too, but lo and behold, same teaching, same wickedness, same message. So i gave up on religion and i have studied the bible and other religious books even more. I have also shown a lot of Christians the truth about God and they were surprised cos no one has ever read them those passages. Trust me; most of you Christians are having this "faith in God" cos you haven't read your bible. I assure you that if you read your bible like i did; you'll dump it in the trash and live a free life. Now my question to you is, when did you become a Christian and why?[/b] 6 Likes |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by DrummaBoy(m): 7:13am On Dec 23, 2013 |
Thank you rudedough for coming here. I am not in a good position to respond to your question now. I will do so extensively later this evening. Coming soon... |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by DrummaBoy(m): 10:20am On Dec 23, 2013 |
Thank you Rude for your post. Permit to call you Rude in this exhange not bc I wish to vilify your monicker but so I could write it in short. You can call me Drum too if you like. I will limit myself to the question you asked me. However, you have raised cogent issues in your post which I will not address for now until you ask me to. I will however give others the freedom to do so. Again, on the issue of what you read of God in the bible, I think it reflects some of the things frosbel talks about too. Frosbel teaches that there is no hell; and that the concept of a God eternally damning people is repulsive to men and has driven them away from religion. I think it makes sense; its just that I am still not convinced by frosbel teachings that there is no hell. The tradition I received teaches hell and basic teaching of the OT and NT teaches hell. But if frosbel is right and indeed there is no hell, then maybe religion has succeeded in painting God a vilian indeed - the kind of God you read about in the bible. For one thing, I am not a religious person. I hate religion and could very well pass as an atheist myself. But having met Jesus Christ, I realize that Jesus himself hates religion and that religion crucified him. Jesus could pass as an atheist himself. My point is that a true relationship with Christ transcends religion. And many atheist have that relationship but only need to define the person in that relationship to be truly fulfilled. I will return with the answer to your question. This is just an intro. |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by DrummaBoy(m): 11:11am On Dec 23, 2013 |
This is coming earlier than I planned: I was born into a family of a Muslim father and a Catholic Mother. My mother taught us all the basic prayers by Roman Catholics and we recited them. My first perspective of God came from my Mother who will say "God is watching you; so be good". I tried to be good when I remembered that admonition and returned to being bad when I did not remember God. In 1990/91 I was invited, along with some children in my neighborhood, to a bible study class ran by a Ghanaian man. He was pentecostal. He introduced us to the concept of being born again and he even prayed that we spoke in tongues. I committed my life to Christ according to this man's teachings at that time and had a good time with God at that very young age. When my father noticed that I was becoming fanatical, he withdrew me and my siblings from the bible study and slowly the influence and teachings of that man left me. I remember that what erased my mind of religion completely then was exposure to American Music Videos. The sexy things portrayed on those videos just took my mind off prayer and the study of the word. I was young too and very easily impressionable. By the time Gangsta Rap came to root in Nigeria and we began to have the music of the likes of Snoop Dogg, Dr Dre, Tupac and Biggie Smalls, I left religion completely. My religion became rap music. I had just entered the University then (1994). The death of Tupac and Notorious BIG hit me bad and it was as if I had no prophets to follow. Sometimes I think God took those boys out of the scene for someone like me to reconsider religion again. In 1998, I was in 300 level, I returned from lectures one hot afternoon and found that my room mates were not back. I made a pot full of rice and beans porridge for the room. Ate my bit and was just relaxing for them to return. I and another chap was squatting with a friend, while there was a fourth chap in the room who was supposed to share the room with my friend ideally (two in a room). This Gentleman was born-again and we hated him. He was the first to come into the room that day. He sat down and I think hen was preparing to leave again; for reasons I do not know, I offered to serve him some food before he left. He accepted. After eating (like Jacob's blessings) he told he me he always knew I was different. He talked to me about Christ and asked me to receive him as Lord. To ward off his presence in that room, because I was becoming increasingly uncomfortable, I decided to accept. Make im just leave me alone; I honestly did not mean to receive any Jesus at that time. I was enjoying my life then and did not want interference. He told me to say some prayers after him I did, half heartedly. Then after it all he prayed for me. As he was praying he began to reveal the content of my heart. Telling me things only God and I could know, and no other man. I was shocked. The room was taken over by a Presence. God began to tell me of his love; that he loved me and that I shouldn't have left him. I honestly expected this God whom I had blasphemed many times through rap music (remember Blasphemy by Tupac? I love that track then!) God, through this man, did not make any reference to the blasphemy, to my hating him, to my having left him all these year; rather he just kept on talking about how he had waited to have me back. I just broke down and began to weep. As I wept the prophecy continued, he told me he will restore me; he gave me many promises. I just sat there and said in my mind what sort of God is this that will reveal himself to a sinner and rather than punish him, he is talking about blessing him. That is the point I submitted myself to the Lordship of Jesus Christ in truth and verity. Today, I am convinced that mouthing the sinners prayer does not convert anyone; rather it is faith in Jesus Christ that does the conversion. I am convinced that I was converted at the point when I submitted my will to God as he revealed himself to me. The point it really happened, I cannot exactly. Now, the conversion itself was gradual, as it required a conversion mostly in my thinking. So as I studied scripture, especially teachings along Reformed Theology, I began to understand God and accept him by faith into my life. I am still growing in my understanding of God. I still maintain that religion is an antithesis to the concept of God. And most of what we have today in Christendom is religion. Even the tithe that we debate against on this thread is a product of religion. Religion paints God as evil, when God in reality is love. I met God's love that day and I was transformed. My question to you, Rude, now, is this: in the light of what you have written about God, can you relate with a God of love? Does the bible teach and show that God is love? 2 Likes |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by GeneralShepherd(m): 11:37am On Dec 23, 2013 |
Touching story but I have heard similar conversion stories for people in other religions. The truth of the matter is this doesn't serve as evidence for god! I had a similar experience as a christian now I'm an atheist. 1 Like |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by Nobody: 2:03pm On Dec 23, 2013 |
[b]Good testimony but while i read your connotations about God, it made me chuckle as i realize that you obviously haven't read your bible. You believe by faith that God is love, good, kind, merciful and everything you hear from the mouth of the Pastors and preachers without taking your time to study the bible yourself. If there is any place in the Bible where God showed love and mercy, please show me. I did not ask for "Promises of Mercy" i mean "An example of Love and Mercy" please show me. Let’s not go into the discussion of religion in general, let's take Christianity and analyze the bible in context. Facts you need to know about God is that God is an authoritarian, who's very judgmental and rebellious. His morality and his sense of judgment indicates a terrorizing sociopath who does not have anything called "Love" or "Mercy" or “forgiveness” as Christians claim and i still wonder how Christian brought about the "Loving" and "Merciful" God connotation. God has a soft spot for burning flesh, and I’m not talking about animals, I’m talking about human sacrifices. Would you believe that your loving God demands and accepts human sacrifices? Even Children sacrifices and i am not talking about Isaac? I am talking about a Priest killing a man or a child and setting it up on the altar as sacrifice to the “most high”. I bet you didn't know this and you thought only Amadioha and Sango accepts human sacrifices.Do you know that God has a genocidal tendency and he's proud of his killings? He’s drunken with blood. He used the phrase "DRUNKEN WITH BLOOD" many times in the bible. You don't believe me? Alright I'll let him tell you directly so let's get this discuss fully started I kill ... I wound ... I will make my arrows "DRUNK WITH BLOOD", and mine sword shall devour flesh. - Deuteronomy 32:42 He didn't stop there; he said his sword will also be "DRUNKEN WITH BLOOD" For this is the day of the Lord, the LORD of Heaven's Armies, a day of vengeance on his enemies. The sword will devour until it is satisfied, yes, until it is "DRUNK WITH YOUR BLOOD"!... - Jeremiah 46:10 God's sword and arrows won't be the only thing "DRUNK WITH BLOOD". God also forced people to eat their own flesh and get drunk on their own blood. I will make your oppressors eat their own flesh; they will be DRUNK ON THEIR OWN BLOOD, as with wine... - Isaiah 49:26 And after he has killed people, he'll feed their bodies to the birds until the birds are "DRUNK WITH BLOOD" ...thus says the Lord God: Speak to the birds of every sort and to all beasts of the field, ‘Assemble and come, gather from all around to the sacrificial feast that I am preparing for you, a great sacrificial feast on the mountains of Israel, and you shall eat flesh and drink blood. ....And you shall eat fat till you are filled, and DRINK BLOOD TILL YOU ARE DRUNK, at the sacrificial feast that I am preparing for you. - Ezekiel 39:17-19 And just to show you how God admires cannibalism, God admired the mystery woman of Babylon drinking human blood. And I saw the woman DRUNKEN WITH THE BLOOD of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. - Revelation 17:6 Is this the God you call omnipotent - having unlimited power; able to do anything? Yet couldn't change people but rather get drunk on their blood and enjoy the pleasing aroma of burning flesh. Yes! I said it, he enjoys the smell of burning flesh. You must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. 16 Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the open square and burn it. Burn the entire town as a burnt offering to the Lord your God..... Then the Lord will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. ...The Lord your God will be merciful only if you listen to his voice and keep all his commands that I am giving you today, doing what pleases him. Deuteronomy 13:15-18 The worse part of God that put me into shock was God killing innocent babies and ripping pregnant women open to kill their unborn babies. The people of Samaria must bear the consequences of their guilt because they rebelled against their God. They will be killed by an invading army, their little ones dashed to death against the ground, their pregnant women ripped open by swords. - Hosea 13:16 A God who causes or allows so much death, destruction, and suffering can't be good. Ask yourself honestly "why would a "good loving God" have to do all this bad stuff?" Killing innocent babies, destroying entire cities, sending plagues etc., you might start to see why some people don't believe in God. What if i tell you that God killed a total of 2.8 Million people given the numbers presented by the bible but an estimate of unaccounted figures will give you an estimate of over 25 Million people? You don’t believe me right? Yes you don’t. How many did the "evil Devil" kill? Have you asked yourself this question? I guess not. And while you're at that, do ask yourself what the sins of the "evil Devil" were. Get a notebook, and while you’re reading the bible, take notes of the sins of the Devil and you'll be amazed at yourself for raining Holy Ghost fire at an innocent character. Trust me on this one, i laughed myself. Then maybe you’ll see for yourself that you have been unfair to the Devil who did no evil as he is being condemned for. And of course, you might get an idea of who the true “evil” character is in the “Holy Bible”. In conclusion, God is nothing close to "light" or "love", he never showed any mercy, his sense of judgment was irrational and his solution was always violent, terrorizing, murderous and genocidal. That is not a moral lesson i will want to teach my Children in the future. Now my question to you is between the character God and the Devil, who has more love in his heart and who’s more evil? [/b] 3 Likes |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by DrummaBoy(m): 2:20pm On Dec 23, 2013 |
Thank you Rude for the post; will get back as quickly as possible to answer the question. |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by tafrica(m): 5:37pm On Dec 23, 2013 |
Rude, I wil want you to clarify this; do you believe there is no God or the God is not as merciful as portrayed by Christians? You sound like you believe there is God, but he's wicked and mean. |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by Nobody: 6:03pm On Dec 23, 2013 |
tafrica: Rude, I wil want you to clarify this; do you believe there is no God or the God is not as merciful as portrayed by Christians? Sorry i don't believe there is a God and i came to my conclusion after scrutinizing the bible and every religious book that i can find. I was only answering to Drummerboy's question about God's Love which led to the referral of the character "God" in the bible to explain that he's not the "Loving" and "Merciful" God Christians think he is. I still think that the Bible is a story book and every character in there are just role players. Looking at the history of the bible will make firm my claim that it is a story book written by disgruntled old men headed by Emperor Constantine I to sell fear to people in other to curb the religious crisis in 316 A.D. So NO sir, God does not exist. He exists only in your head. Does your thought exist? Can your thought kill you? 1 Like |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by Zikdik(m): 8:26pm On Dec 23, 2013 |
I don show. O.P bro, I would love to believe like you do. But, i've got a couple of questions for ya'. Please do your best to answer as logically as possible. 1. What makes your story of creationism fundamentally different from all the others that exist now, have existed before, and will exist in the future? 2. How did Noah find all of the animals and get them back to the ark? Did he bring them back one pair at a time, or did they all follow him in a line as he visited other continents to collect more animals? 3. What did the carnivores eat on the ark? 4. How did koalas get to Australia after the ark washed up on that mountain? 5. Why did your god make life that has to destroy other life, often cruelly, in order to survive? 6. If cruelty and suffering result from a 'fallen world' caused by some original sin of humans, why did your god also punish the animals for it by creating disease, pain and suffering for them too? 7. Is it just to punish all humans, including those who weren't born yet, for the sins of one? Would you punish your own younger children for the wrongs of the oldest which occurred before the others were born? 8. If humans are special creations, why do we share the traits of violence, lust, rage, tribal warfare, homosexuality, etc. with animals? 9. Why do you believe your god made only one breeding pair (Adam and Eve), instead of many? With only one breeding pair, fathers are forced to have sex with daughters, brothers with sisters, and sons with mothers, in order to propagate the species. Is this a divine endorsement for incest? 10. If all civilisations resulted from Adam and Eve, and oral traditions about the god that created them were passed down from generation to generation, why are there so many other creation stories in the world? Why didn't all civilisations keep their 'true' religion? 11. Why did your god only appear to one group of people? If it can do anything and be everywhere at once, why couldn't it be bleeped to appear to the other people of the world as well? 12. Why do you get your scientific education from people like Kent Hovind, Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron? These people have no university-level education in science, and in some cases, no university education at all. Wouldn't it be smarter to trust those who are educated, and actively researching, in the field? 13. Why has the world, including government funding, science journals, reputable newspapers, education standards, etc., moved on without you, leaving your barbaric bronze-age theories in their dust? Why have we made so much progress in our understanding after abandoning religious methodology for a scientific one? 14. Why is there at least some evidence for our scientific theories, but none at all for your creationism? 15. Why is the fossil record arranged in such a way as to suggest evolution? 16. Why are the continents shaped like they were once together, and have similar geology on what would be the common edges? 17. Why are the continents moving apart at a rate that would put them together millions of years ago? 18. If humans are special creations, why do we share the same biology, metabolic pathways, etc. with chimpanzees? Shouldn't we have been made completely differently to emphasize the point? 19. To avoid the cruelty caused by life killing other life to survive, couldn't we all have been photosynthetic organisms, using sunlight and inanimate molecules to make our energy? If you're going to say there's not enough energy in photosynthesis, why couldn't your god design a more effective photosynthetic system? 20. Why does the evidence from so many scientific disciplines, astronomy, geology, biology, physics, chemistry, all converge to suggest the Big Bang and Evolution, while at the same time pointing away from your theory? 21. Why do the mathematical models behind scientific understanding of the Universe work so well, while creationists have no mathematical models at all? 22. Does your creation model or your holy book account for things like quantum mechanics? Why doesn't it seem to contain much useful knowledge at all? 23. If your god didn't explain quantum nature for these people because they wouldn't understand, then isn't it time your god shows itself and gives us an update now that we have more understanding? Why doesn't it divinely guide some people to write an update to your current holy book? Or is it allowing us to do that through science? Is the reason we don't need an update that science is doing such a good job of answering the questions? 24. Why does the human chromosome #2 appear to have been created by the fusion of two different chimpanzee chromosomes, complete with structures which would not be necessary if it was created as a single, unified chromosome? 25. What is the Cosmic Background Radiation? The CBR is an integral part of the Big Bang model, and is in fact demanded by it. How does your creationism account for it, ie. where does it fit in your model? 26. Why are the galaxies moving apart? Were they once much closer together? 27. Why can we see objects in space that are billions of light years away? 28. What process did your god use to create life? Can you describe how it works? 29. Can you use your creation model to make any helpful predictions that might lead us to further discoveries or understanding? 30. What is one prediction that your model can make which could support your creationism to the exclusion of accepted scientific models, and what evidence can you find for it? There goes. I would be expecting your reply asap. You know I could die and go to hell anytime soon if you don't change my convictions soon. 1 Like |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by Nobody: 8:31pm On Dec 23, 2013 |
^ ^ ^lol, nice one only that you won't get an answer |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by DrummaBoy(m): 8:42pm On Dec 23, 2013 |
rationalmind: ^ ^ ^lol, nice one only that you won't get an answer He will get an answer just that it may not be too exhaustive as the questions are many. |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by Nobody: 8:52pm On Dec 23, 2013 |
DrummaBoy: Good #waiting# |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by Zikdik(m): 8:53pm On Dec 23, 2013 |
DrummaBoy:Ope o! I finally would be saved. |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by raptureready: 9:22pm On Dec 23, 2013 |
rationalmind: SMH at you @rationalmind. Why are you not preaching to @zikdik about the fallacy petitio principii or fallacy of assumption/begging the question? Most of all his questions begin with baseless assumptions of the very thing they are trying to prove. If the same thing is done by a deist now, you go begin talk up and down.  zikdik: Please show us first how all "the evidence from so many scientific disciplines, astronomy, geology, biology, physics, chemistry, all converge to suggest the Big Bang and Evolution, while at the same time pointing away from your theory" 1 Like |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by DrummaBoy(m): 9:29pm On Dec 23, 2013 |
Rude this is your question: Now my question to you is between the character God and the Devil, who has more love in his heart and who’s more evil? Let me begin by saying that God is not man. Also, God doesn't think like us, his thoughts are far and way beyond ours. Then I must say quickly that God is not humanist. And the case that some make out of the killing of people in the OT and even the killing of animals in our day, as being barbaric is not the way God sees these things. I will say upfront that I may not be providing scriptures for some of my points bc it will involve more work than I can afford at the moment but you, Rude, being a knowledgable bible person, will know where I am refering to. Also, I want say that this is an exchange and not a debate. I would really love it to lead to you becoming a Christian but if you do not; it doesn't change anything. Hopefully it will help our readers or make some sense to some other atheist who will make the DECISION. Back to the matter at hand. You have listed a number of scriptures and many of them paint God as, to say the least, barbaric and blood sucking. That is fine. I would not go the extent of disproving these scriptures because that will be running foul of the bible; they are veritable scriptures that anyone can read and those incidences did happen. But let me offer some explanation here: 1. Christ Jesus died that he may save men from sin (Matthew 1:21). Sin is odious to God. God hate sin. And God will judge sin. It was his concern for the sins of men that made him take up flesh and dwell amongst us; eventually dying to provide a solution for this sin. What you listed above in that post is God's reaction to sin. Up until the time Christ died and ressurrected, the dispensation of grace was abscent and men paid for the penalty of the sins they committed. The wages of sin is death. God is not man; he does not think like man. God is a Judge as much as he is love. He will judge sin and when we understand that sin is inherent and not just what men do; we see that the suckling child as much as the grown man is a sinner before a holy God and when God brings his judgement on the land, all men pay for it. 2. Dispensations. God deals with man through dispensations. From what we can understand there have been four dispensations so far. The time of Adam; the Time of Abraham; the time of Moses and the Time of Christ/Church - which is the dispensation of grace. The dispensation of Moses witnessed the giving of the law. With the coming of the law also came the subject of sin and God's righteous judgement of it. Prior to the coming of the law, we hardly read of incidences like the ones listed by Rude. When the law came and sin was defined, man was slayed under judgement. God himself came and judged men's sin; including the sins of Israel and thus we have all those captivity that Israel went on. By the time of grace, this law and judgement circle ceased. And we heard of it no more. That is why there is only one NT scripture in the list that Rude gave to us. There is no other. Even that one is quite understandable as it described the harlot who had or will do abominable things. That harlot is not God; it is the system of this world - Babylon. Its activity have been on going since the Church age began and it will continue till Christ returns. That harlot feeds on the blood of saints. That harlot is not Jesus not God. With this two points I wish to show then God does not only have love in his heart: GOD IS LOVE! Satan on the other hand is the devil, the deceiver, the destroyer, a lier, a murderer as from the beginning. It was love that drove the Savior to the cross and made him die and ignoble death to save you and I from sin. It is love that makes God forbear with men for years, hoping that his patience can lead them to repentance and faith in Christ. God is a God of love. It was this love that appeared to me in that room during my undergraduate days and broke me free from my rebellion. God commends his love to you my friends, that while you were yet a sinner, Christ died to redeem you from your sins. On the other hand, the devil has not iota of love in him. What I sense in your post is not that you do not believe that God exist, you seem to be mortally offended at him. I can understand what will happen to the psyche of a child who is truly seeking God but ends up with a thorough wiping from an individual God had put in place of himself to explain him to you. No wonder scripture says My people perish for lack of knowledge. If your Dad had taken the time to explain the eternal love of a Father to you then and not bring wrath on you, you would probably have come to know God's love earlier. But it is not too late. I have read your post on what you think of God's existence but will still like to ask that with all these "evidences" you have against God, can you truly say that you do not believe he exists? Or you would prefer to say that God is the devil, while the devil is God or the good one? 1 Like |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by Nobody: 9:32pm On Dec 23, 2013 |
rapture_ready: you are addressing the wrong person |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by DrummaBoy(m): 10:40pm On Dec 23, 2013 |
Zik: I believe the biblical account of creationism, as recorded in Genesis, is the first account. There has been no other before. It makes sense that if any other story will come, to gain relevance, it will try to disprove the first. If they say the first is wrong but the second or third are the right one, what is the basis for this. The eternal God Almighty created heaven and earth. The days are coming when the heaven will be destroyed and replaced with a new heaven and earth. May God count us all to be worthy to partake of the New Thing God is going to do Zik: God gave the command for Noah to do bring the animals to the ark; inherent in that command was the ability to carry out the work called grace. The conjecture on how it was done and use this as a basis, to disprove biblical accounts, is the height of folly. Zik: Same answer as in 2. Or better still What did the Israelite eat in their 40 yrs journey in the wilderness? Does God have oven in heaven? Zik: I hope you can find the answer in 2 or 3. If you cannot, I do not have any answer for this. Zik: It is called sin. Or better still murder. The first murder was Cain killing Abel. God did not send him. It was the effect of sin that led to this and it is sin that is at the root of all murder. Christ died to save you from your sin(s) so that you or other men may not murder men made in the likeness of God. Zik: I have no answer for this. Scripture does not tell us the consequence of sin on animals. If you have answers you may provide them Zik: Again God is not man; he does not think like we do. However, the dispensation of grace that we are in has gone beyond punishment for sin; rather we are in a time that there is redemption for sin. Rather than dwell on the punishment, we would appreciate if you understand the Story of Redemption. Zik: Sin. Zik: Because the scriptures said so. Incest is a definition of man. As at the time of Adam, it was common for close relative to marry each other. Abraham married his half sister. By the time of the law, God prohibited it. Today, there is really no law against it; save for country civil laws. People are discouraged from it for health reasons, basically. Zik: The account we have in Genesis is not "Oral Tradition". Those stories were written by Moses as God inspired and commanded him to write it. I have made you to understand that there is no other creation story before the Genesis account; others simply "copy" and adapt what Moses wrote to suit their theologies. Zik: God is Sovereign. Israel were is chosen one. And you will do well to save the obscenities if you want me to continue any conversation with you. I am a responsible individual and if I find out that your questions are aimed at ridiculing God with obscenities I will simply not respond to you anymore. Zik: I do not know what you are talking about? We are talking God here and not science and scientists. Zik: All knowledge is from God. The bible prophesies that at the end of age knowledge will increase. Many scientists were/are Christians. I am a scientist and a theologian for your information. Zik: The evidence is all around you; look up at the sky and behold the birds flying, the vegitation around you; air; the fact that you can take your breadth and not die the next second; it is all God. Science is an extenstion of the manifold wisdom of our God. No true godly person despises science. Zik: I know very little about evolution. Many godly people have rationalized evolution in the light of creationism. A simple good search will with the above question. Zik: God: Intelligent Design. Zik: Beyond the scope of this discuss; consult google. Zik: We do share some metabolic pathways but only man is made in the image of God with three entities in one: body, soul and spirit. Animals do not have this. Zik: God created the world and he said it was good. All that man needs for life is here and it is in abundance. If there is a need for the suggestion you made above, God will give wisdom for this and we will have the science in operation in no future time. God is the author of all scientific breakthrough. Zik: They do point at creationism. Many scientific discoveries have proven biblical accounts to be true. Zik: Because creationism created Mathematics and all the models it could ever work with. Zik: Find your answer above. Zik: All that needs to be known of God is written in nature. God has taken the effort to also give a good account of himself in the bible. And the best update God has given man is the Spirit of God who makes the very mind of God known to us. Zik: Question beyond the scope of this discuss. Consider google. Zik: Question beyond the thread's syllabus. Read the opener again. Zik: God the Holy Spirit who inspired the creation story can inspire further discoveries and understanding. Yes. Zik: That the world that we have today will come to an end. With King Jesus bringing all men to account before him. As many as have not found saving faith in Him will be cast out unto outer darkness. For those who have, they will dwell with him forever in the new heaven and new earth. The proof that this will happen is the fact that this world, in spite of its scientific advancement, is decaying and ready fall apart. Zik: I really hope my answers have helped you in some way. |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by seemylife: 11:39pm On Dec 23, 2013 |
@ZIK where you there when all these scientific discoveries were made? |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by MarkMiwerds(m): 12:00am On Dec 24, 2013 |
Concerning the account of Creation, many are opposed to a literal six-day period in which the Earth and all that is in it were created. Yet, in the Word of God, we read: Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. The Word of God declares that the Earth was created in six days. We who are His cannot deny His Word. More than 100 years ago, someone got an idea that they could disprove the Biblical account of creation if they put a multi-million year gap between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. Their reasoning is that the word that the word that the King James translators translated as "was" (which is the Hebrew word "hayah" ) could also be translated "became." in many instances, the word "hayah" is indeed translated as "became." But the KJV translators used th word "was" in Genesis 1:2 for a reason. That reason being, of all the words that the Hebrew word "hayah" could be translated to, the word "was" was the most logical. The problem arises with a later word, found in verse 28. That word is the word "replenish" Our modern dictionaries all define the word with two answers... "to fill", and "to fill again." But earlier dictionaries do not have the second definition, only the first. Nathan Bailey's Etymological Dictionary of the English Language, written in 1726 A.D., defines "replenish" as "to fill." That's it. Just "to fill. And earlier Dictionary, Robert Cawdrey's "A Table Alphabeticall" written in 1604 A.D., defines "replenish as "to fill." That's it. Just "to fill. In 1604, when the KJV translators convened to begin their translation, the word "replenish" only had one meaning... "to fill" The command was not "fill again" in Genesis 28. It was "fill" for the first time. |
| Re: Inviting Rudedough To A Discussion On God by Nobody: 6:11am On Dec 24, 2013 |
[b]@Drummerboy I've read your reply since yesterday but since then i haven't been myself. I have been pondering upon how you tried to justify the murder of innocent children, suckling babies, and the slicing of pregnant women to smite their unborn children with the sword. I almost cried thinking about this last night. Can you look within yourself and see what religion has done to you? Look at what your morals and sense of judgement have become. That is what religion does to a man. You talked about grace and sins, you even said "Sin is odious to God. God hate sin. And God will judge sin" But what sins have these children committed? What sins have the suckling babies in their mothers arms committed? What sins have yet unborn / undeveloped babies committed? How does God justify killing innocent babies when they had nothing to do with the sins of Pharaoh? Couldn't an all-powerful God simply punish Pharaoh enough to make him change his mind? How can one kill all the children in Nigeria because the President did something wrong, how does that makes sense to you? I mean real, live babies in their mother's arms. I mean small children, trying to hide behind the safety of their parent's legs even as their parent is gutted. I mean little boys feeling their life flow out of them through a hole that passes through their lungs. I mean little children who don't even know how to wear their slippers. I can't believe that you even had the guts to invite me to Christendom despite reading about all the shameful murders and grossly immoral conduct of your God. I think i have had enough of this nonsense and i will like to put an end to this discuss as i am deeply saddened and grossly irritated. I wish you luck in your religion. END[/b] 2 Likes |
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) ... (20) (Reply)
What Do You Understand By Blaspheming Against The Holy Ghost? / What Are You Thanking God For As 2020 Is Coming To An End? / Behold The Richest Pastors In Nigeria!
(Go Up)
| Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 194 |