₦airaland Forum

desiredhome:
I think you lack the understanding of what Love is, you are the type that rather give your money to a businessman called pastor while a relative or friend is in need/pain.
Love is giving to those in need, it's compassion, caring for one another. Sometimes your blessing you seek is in the little help you render to someone in need but your pastorprenour will not tell you that because they want to milk you dry.
You can't pay God for what He has done for you,
Even when we pay the tithes and all the money they keep demanding, how has it change the poverty level of the over 70% of the Church members?
"That there will be meat in the house, the question is, where is the meat in the house?

I think If your pastors will do the right thing, by giving to the needy, your prayer points will be less.

Even though you pay 100% of your salary every month as tithe without righteousness you are just wasting your time

Ok. I think we're done with this discussion. Let it be as you understand

babadee1:
There is nothing wrong with tithing as a Christian in fact it's a good thing. Just don't tell me that it is a compulsory practice. Go and read Romans 14, especially verse 23. He who doubts is condemned if he eats because it is not from faith and whatsoever is not from faith is sin.
The law of Moses banned the Hebrews from eating any food sacrificed to idols. Paul in the book of Romans said we as Christians we can eat any food that we like as long as we are doing it from faith.
If your faith supports paying tithes please go ahead and God will reward you. If my faith does not support paying tithes and I try to do it by force to please any man then God will not be pleased with me because my personal faith was not involved.
Leave the issue of tithe to every Christian and their conscience to decide.

So if your faith,for example, tells you that 4nternet fraud can be used to pay your children school fees(which is a good and honorable thing to do), will you do it?

toyosi20188:
So if your faith,for example, tells you that 4nternet fraud can be used to pay your children school fees(which is a good and honorable thing to do), will you do it?

*internet

alBHAGDADI:
Then why are non-tithers attacking those who tithe? No one ever said tithing is compulsory.Bht if you know the benefits, you will want to tithe.

Can't you see that it is antitithers that have. been attacking those who tithe? Cam you mow see that they are in err of Romans 14 which you quoted?

I can only speak for myself. I don't attack anyone who decides to tithe or not to tithe. But I have personally been in several church services where the pastors openly condemned people for not paying their tithes. This is scripturally and spiritually wrong. The decision to give 10% or 20% or even 100% or 0% must be left to every Christian to make between themselves and God.

ollah1:


Usual nonsense. Go and use your brain to do better thing than this trash you put up ther

Just to chip in a last retort.
What exactly have you accomplished with your brain?
What exactly is your accomplishment without peace of mind?
What exactly is your knowledge without Wisdom?
What exactly is your life without joy?

I was more sensual and brainy than you, I was a voracious reader who prided myself in what I could achieve by myself, I eventually became an atheist.
Today, I am a born again.
I am an evangelist for Christ.
I am propagating the same Christ I was persecuting.
And my life experienced a turn around in every area of my life.
I just shared a testimony in my church (out of my several testimonies) that this same year people have been calling hard, difficult, tough, etc, yes this same APC-Buhari government is my best year ever as I who usually was depressed today I can't even relate when people are speaking of depression because the Joy of the Lord overfills my heart and flows to the world through me.

If you were wise, you would see your solution in my testimony and not try to argue.
Good night.
Merry Christmas in advance.
The reason for the season is the Birth and Salvation in Jesus Christ.

toyosi20188:
So if your faith,for example, tells you that 4nternet fraud can be used to pay your children school fees(which is a good and honorable thing to do), will you do it?

If you are a born again Christian, the Holy Spirit will let you know that internet fraud is not a good thing and you should not do it. Whether you decide to listen or not after that is up to you. However, if you're not a Christian then none of the things we are talking about even applies to you at all. It doesn't matter if you do it or you don't do it. If you're not born again you're already condemned.

alBHAGDADI:
@ at the end of three years. Does that sound like a monthly thing to you?

So which one was done monthly in d Bible?

alBHAGDADI:
Did Jesus tell you that tithing under mosaic law or whatever has been abolished? Why speak when Jesus has not spoken?

How does tithing under the Mosaic Law as stated by Jesus in Matthew 23 v 23 apply to a non-Jew? Who was the Mosaic Law meant for?

alBHAGDADI:
After fulfilling the requirement of the law, why didn't Jesus now clearly put a stop to it but remained silent about it? Was tithing not before mosaic law?

Please mention one of the Mosaic Laws Jesus abolished when He was alive? Did Jesus speak against animal sacrifice or against circumcision?

alBHAGDADI:
Since you claim the law has been done away with, go ahead and sleep with your mother, a thing the law prohibits.

Did man's knowledge of good and evil start with the Mosaic Law? Do you need the Mosaic Law to tell you incest was a taboo?
Did Jacob need to consult any Mosaic Law before cursing Reuben (anyways Reuben slept with his step-mother so it's not exactly incest, but the Mosaic Law equally forbade a son to sleep with his Father's wife e.g. step mother or blood mother)

alBHAGDADI:
You speak of shaving the corners of the hair as seen below. If you don't shave the corners of your hair, it will become long.

Paul already canceled that because he said it is a shame for man to have long hair. I believe this also cancels out beards.

Are you telling us what you think or actual facts on ground? Are we take your guess work as the fact here?

alBHAGDADI:
As for clothes with mixed materials, that one is strictly a law for Israel, not Christians. Why?

Because before the nation of Israel, Joseph wore a coat of many colors given to him by Jacob.

Genesis 37:3
Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age: and he made him a coat of many colours.

I'm not saying Jacob or Joseph was under any Mosaic Law, but this is the height of it all! How does a coat of many colors translate into a coat of mixed materials? Haba!


BY THE WAY, YOU ARE YET TO TELL US WHERE THIS MOSAIC LAW WAS DONE AWAY WITH IN THE SCRIPTURES!
Keeping tassels at the corners of your garment? Deutoronomy 22 v 11-12

Any pastor collecting tithes is a liar and a thief.all who pay tithes are under a curse.

alBHAGDADI:
Did you exist in their days?

Ogbeni, open your bible and show us where the Apostles instructed the early christians to bring tithes into the church.


Unless you are also claiming you existed in their days as well to prove your point!

DO NOT BE DECEIVED BY PEDDLERS OF THE MONETARY TITHING GOSPEL!

They claim that Jesus endorsed tithing as per Matthew 23 v 23
"What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law--justice, mercy, and faith.

But they are quiet on the fact that Jesus was talking about tithing performed in line with the Mosaic Law!

Now take a look at the next few posts on how tithing was done under the Mosaic Law (Judaism) and conclude for yourself if monetary tithing practiced in the church today bears any semblance to it!

Tithes in Judaism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Tithing in the Temple
The tithe is specifically mentioned in the Books of Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. The tithe system was organized in a seven-year cycle, the seventh-year corresponding to the Shemittah-cycle in which year tithes were broken-off, and in every third and sixth-year of this cycle the Second tithe replaced with the Poor man's tithe. These tithes were in reality more like taxes for the people of Israel and were mandatory, not optional giving. This tithe was distributed locally "within thy gates" (Deuteronomy 14:28) to support the Levites and assist the poor. Every year, Bikkurim, Terumah, Ma'aser Rishon and Terumat Ma'aser were separated from the grain, wine and oil (Deuteronomy 14:22). Initially, the commandment to separate tithes from one's produce only applied when the entire nation of Israel had settled in the Land of Israel. The Returnees from the Babylonian exile who had resettled the country were a Jewish minority, and who, although they were not obligated to tithe their produce, put themselves under a voluntary bind to do so, and which practice became obligatory upon all.

Terumah (Heave-offering)
The first obligation that was incumbent upon an Israelite or Jew was to separate from his harvested grain (wheat, barley, spelt, etc.), wine (including unpressed grapes) and oil (including unpressed olives) the one-fiftieth portion of these products (or one-fortieth, if he were a man of generosity; and one-sixtieth if he were stingy) and to give the same to a man of Aaron's lineage (priestly stock), who, in turn, would eat such fruits in a state of ritual cleanness, in accordance with a biblical command, "...and let him not eat of the holy things, until he bathes his flesh in water. And when the sun goes down down, he will be clean, and shall afterward eat of the holy things because it is his food" (Leviticus 22:6). This obligation was contingent upon the fact that such fruits grew in the Land of Israel. Later, the Rabbis made it an obligation to do the same for all fruits and vegetables grown in the Land of Israel, and not only to such fruits as grain, grapes and olives. With the destruction of the Temple and the cessation of ritual purity, the obligation to separate the Terumah continued unabated, although it was no longer given to a priest of Aaron's lineage, since bodily defilement was now pervasive. The general practice after the Temple's destruction was to separate the Terumah from all fruits and vegetables by removing even the slightest portion thereof, and to immediately discard it by burial or some other means of disposal (since it can no longer be eaten in the current state of ritual uncleanness, and those doing so would make themselves liable to extirpation).

First tithe
The first tithe is giving of one tenth of the remaining agricultural produce (after removing from the produce the standard Terumah) to the Levite (or Aaronic priests). Historically, during the First Temple period, the first tithe was given to the Levites. Approximately at the beginning of the Second Temple construction, Ezra and his Beth din implemented its giving to the kohanim.

The Levites, also known as the Tribe of Levi, were descendants of Levi. They were assistants to the Aaronic priests (who were the children of Aaron and, therefore, a subset of the Tribe of Levi) and did not own or inherit a territorial patrimony (Numbers 18:21-28). Their function in society was that of temple functionaries, teachers and trusted civil servants who supervised the weights and scales and witnessed agreements. The goods donated from the other Israeli tribes were their source of sustenance. They received from "all Israel" a tithe of food or livestock for support, and in turn would set aside a tenth portion of that tithe (known as the Terumat hamaaser) for the Aaronic priests.

Second tithe

Unlike other offerings which were restricted to consumption within the tabernacle, the second tithe could be consumed anywhere within the Walls of Jerusalem. On years one, two, four and five of the Shemittah-cycle, God commanded the Children of Israel to take a second tithe that was to be brought to the place of the Temple (Deuteronomy 14:23). The owner of the produce was to separate and bring 1/10 of his finished produce to the Old City of Jerusalem, after separating Terumah and the first tithe, but if the family lived too far from Jerusalem, the tithe could be redeemed upon coins (Deuteronomy 14:24-25). Then, the Bible required the owner of the redeemed coins to spend the tithe "to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish" (Deuteronomy 14:26). Implicit in the commandment was an obligation to spend the coins on items meant for human consumption.

Poor man's tithe
In years three and six of the Shemittah-cycle the Israelites set aside the (second) tithe instead as the poor tithe, and it was given to the strangers, orphans, and widows.

Terumat maaser

Terumat hamaaser was given by the Levite to the Kohen, and was one-tenth of what the Levite had received of the First-tithe. It is alluded to in the Hebrew Bible under the words, "a tithe (tenth) of the tithe" (Numbers 18:26). It, too, was considered Terumah, and was eaten by priests in a state of ritual cleanness. Today, the Terumat maaser is discarded because of general uncleanness, just as the Terumah is now discarded.

Demai

Demai (Mishnaic Hebrew: דמאי) is a Halakhic term meaning "dubious," referring to agricultural produce, the owner of which was not trusted with regard to the correct separation of the tithes assigned to the Levites, although the terumah (the part designated unto priests) was believed to have been separated from such fruits. In such "dubious" cases, all that was necessary was to separate the one-tenth portion due to the priests from the First Tithe given to the Levites, being the 1/100th part of the whole. The Second Tithe is also removed (redeemed) from the fruit in such cases of doubt.

Places that require tithing
The criterion for determining what places require the tithing of produce is any place within the country that was held by the Returnees from the Babylonian exile, as defined in the "Baraita of the Boundaries" of the Land of Israel;although today the land might be held by a different entity, or else worked by non-Jews, produce grown in those places would still require the separation of tithes when they come into the hand of an Israelite or Jew.

Tithes are broken-off during the Sabbatical year (such as when the ground lies fallow), during which year, all fruits, grains and vegetables that are grown of themselves in that year are considered free and ownerless property. For example, whatever lands were held by those returning from the Babylonian exile at the time of Ezra are forbidden to be ploughed and sown by any Jew during the Seventh year, and even if gentiles were to plough such land and sow it, the produce would be forbidden unto Jews to eat. On the other hand, the extension of such lands held by the people of Israel who departed Egypt and who entered the Land of Canaan under their leader, Joshua, are forbidden to be ploughed by any Jew during the Seventh year, but if gentiles had ploughed such land and sown it, the produce is permitted to be eaten by a Jew. If on a regular week-year, fruits and grains and vegetables, if grown by an Israelite in these places, would require tithing.

Cattle tithe
An additional tithe mentioned in the Book of Leviticus (27:32-33) is the cattle tithe, which is to be sacrificed as a korban at the Temple in Jerusalem.

Ma'aser kesafim
Ma'aser kesafim is a tithe that Jews give to charity (tzedakah), something that is done on a voluntary basis, as this practice has not been regulated in Jewish codes of law.

Any fraudster that insists on Matthew 23 v 23 as the basis for Christians to tithe should, tell us if he/she tithes in line with the requirements of the Mosaic Law Jesus was referring to.


Anyone who insists on using Abram's example as a basis for Christians to tithe should please explain to us why Abram's one-off voluntary transaction from the spoils of war should be an example for Christians to part with 10% of their monthly income

Jesus and the Apostles spoke of freewill giving especially to the needy, as opposed to these monetary tithing hogwash these charlatans are peddling about...

OkCornel:
Per the bolded, let me ask you this...

1) Did man's knowledge of good and evil start with the Mosaic Law?
2) Did Cain consult the Mosaic Law before concluding he had sinned by killing Abel?
3) What is evil if I decide not to tithe? Bear in mind that I am not under any law to tithe
4) Do Christians "OUGHT TO TITHE" because Abram tithed VOLUNTARILY?
5) Can you show us where exactly God instructed Abram or Jacob to tithe?

I wonder why people don't get it. Tithe is no where part of the new covenant establish through the shedding of the blood of Jesus the Mediator. I'm not under obligation to give a tenth of my income to anybody. I give as I purpose in my heart to the Church and to my neighbour.

Tithing to be blessed by God is useless.

bloodofthelamb:
I wonder why people don't get it. Tithe is no where part of the new covenant establish through the shedding of the blood of Jesus the Mediator. I'm not under obligation to give a tenth of my income to anybody. I give as I purpose in my heart to the Church and to my neighbour.

Tithing to be blessed by God is useless.

It's heartbreaking for people to see a straightforward truth and try to twist it around for monetary gains.

So sad

As we speak right now, even the Jews whom the Mosaic Law of tithing was made an obligation for do not tithe today.

OkCornel:
It's heartbreaking for people to see a straightforward truth and try to twist it around for monetary gains.

So sad

You have been so apt and detailed in every tithe debate in this forum. Weldone!

If I depend on tithe for the blessings and favour of the Most High, then is no longer grace. I trusted in something other than JESUS CHRIST. The truth is that, as much as many who depend on tithing inexchange for God's protection, favour, breakthrough, blessing have fallen from grace. Christ Jesus have become unprofitable to them.

alBHAGDADI:
The law says you shouldn't sleep with your sister. Why not go and sleep with her because you are not under the law but under grace?

Please go and read the OP carefully and with an unbiased mind. You will see your questions answered.

I have no bias mine in searching for the truth. You should know that amending a law is different from formulating and promulgating a law. (I don't want to talk on tha) The levites were not paid and had no source of income to take care of their daily needs but our pastors today are being paid with school fees of their children being cater for by the church in some cases. Most churches today even have welfare department to take care of the needies and the fund to take care of such aspect does not even come from the tithe but from members of the church. What bias mind do you think i have in searching for the rationale behind paying of tithe in our churches today?

bloodofthelamb:
You have been so apt and detailed in every tithe debate in this forum. Weldone!

If I depend on tithe for the blessings and favour of the Most High, then is no longer grace. I trusted in something other than JESUS CHRIST. The truth is that, as much as many who depend on tithing inexchange for God's protection, favour, breakthrough, blessing have fallen from grace. Christ Jesus have become unprofitable to them.

Thanks bro, may God Almighty continue to lead us right.

alBHAGDADI:
And you also failed to show me where Jesus stopped tithing.

any things might be wrong with how tithing is practiced today, but does that say itithing should stop? No, because God never said such. So who are you to speak when the Most High hasn't spoken?

You already answered the question about the payment of tithe. Tithes were meant for the Levite's and the Levites alone. Jesus was not a Levite and so didn't collect tithes and also did not condemn the giving of tithes to the Levite's.
My problem is why our so called pastors today will lay so much emphasis on tithe when they are not Levite's and when Jesus our saviour did not. We are the followers of Christ, we ought to be 'Christ-like'.

That was why I called you out not to twist the bible like your pastors when you said the pastors are 'spiritual Levite's'. Does that even make sense to you because It definitely won't make sense to anyone that knows the truth.

Look at Nigeria and the bondage the country is in because we fail to tell ourselves the truth. The pastors, the politicians etc all propagating lies just to enrich themselves. Only the truth will set us free. Until we begin to learn, to know 'what is' and 'what is not', and stand firm on the truth and that only the truth must prevail, then we begin to set ourselves free. Many Nigerians are in religious bondage. Quote me anywhere.

bloodofthelamb:
You have been so apt and detailed in every tithe debate in this forum.
Weldone!

OkCornel has the baton, that's why.

bloodofthelamb:
If I depend on tithe for the blessings and favour of the Most High, then is no longer grace.
I trusted in something other than JESUS CHRIST.
The truth is that,
as much as many who depend on tithing inexchange for God's protection, favour, breakthrough, blessing have fallen from grace.
Christ Jesus have become unprofitable to them.

Try grace.
Try a superior principle and see whether it wont work better for you, is what I usually say, to the alBHAGDADI of this world

Las las all of una go dey okay. The issue of tithe have been a controversial issue. No be freeze start am.

pressplay411:
Just to chip in a last retort.
What exactly have you accomplished with your brain?
What exactly is your accomplishment without peace of mind?
What exactly is your knowledge without Wisdom?
What exactly is your life without joy?

I was more sensual and brainy than you, I was a voracious reader who prided myself in what I could achieve by myself, I eventually became an atheist.
Today, I am a born again.
I am an evangelist for Christ.
I am propagating the same Christ I was persecuting.
And my life experienced a turn around in every area of my life.
I just shared a testimony in my church (out of my several testimonies) that this same year people have been calling hard, difficult, tough, etc, yes this same APC-Buhari government is my best year ever as I who usually was depressed today I can't even relate when people are speaking of depression because the Joy of the Lord overfills my heart and flows to the world through me.

If you were wise, you would see your solution in my testimony and not try to argue.
Good night.
Merry Christmas in advance.
The reason for the season is the Birth and Salvation in Jesus Christ.

Go and write a story book. Your loved ones will collect copies for free and trash them.

MuttleyLaff:
OkCornel has the baton, that's why.

Try grace.
Try a superior principle and see whether it wont work better for you, is what I usually say, to the alBHAGDADI of this world

Indeed he really has. I mean why should I depend on my faithfulness eg tithing, giving to the poor, my church attendance record etc, if I can depend on Jesus. Why?

OkCornel:
Thanks bro, may God Almighty continue to lead us right.

Amen!

bloodofthelamb:
Indeed he really has.

That's a capable hand, I say to myself, when I see him OkCornel, on the front line

bloodofthelamb:
I mean why should I depend on my faithfulness eg tithing, giving to the poor, my church attendance record etc, if I can depend on Jesus.
Why?

We've freed a thousand tithe instituted slaves.
We could have freed a thousand more, if only they knew, they are tithe instituted slaves.

openmine:

....and heave offering?
Okay let's say you unintentionally missed that part.....
but that's by the way...
Let's talk about the law....

For where there is a CHANGE of priesthood, there is a necessity for the CHANGE of the LAW
Hebrews 7:12

For the LAW has been abolished due to its uselessness and unprofitableness....
Hebrews 7:18-19

Hence Christ is the high priest of a better covenant
Hebrews 7:22
I didn't say so bro,the bible did....if you want I can provide other scriptures to show you the law is a whole!

Now let's come to the 'do not kill' or 'do not still' commandment,
There is no better scripture that properly explains such annulment of the law than this below.....

Romans 13:8-10
Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,”and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”10 Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

The simple response to your killing commandments is....do you need the law of moses to actually INSTRUCT you not to kill?

Finally,let's just understand one thing about Matthew 23:23
The very reason why Jesus could not stop the law of tithe or any other laws of moses was simply because he was still UNDER THE LAW!
It was after his death and resurrection that he was exalted as high priest!
It was his resurrection that caused a total annulment of the law!
He fulfilled the law of moses when he died on the cross of calvary thereby giving rise to a BETTER COVENANT, A BRAND NEW LAW AND A SUPERIOR HIGH PRIEST IN CHRIST JESUS!

as for your last statements which are the usual rehashed words of most gullible tithers are borne out of sentiments and utter blackmail!!
You are actually doing what some Jews did to some gentiles who recently received Christ in Acts 15:5....where they were demanded to obey the law of moses...However,peter opposed them!
Please read through Acts 15!

And to make it quite clear to you,I don't need a law to tell me to give to the needy or for the work of the church or to those who need help!
Paul excellently showed to believers how to give.....

2 Corinthians 9:7
Every man should give as he has DECIDED IN HIS HEART...not GRUDGINGLY or based on A NECESSITY.... For God LOVES A GENEROUS GIVER!

No need talking too much. I will address your last point cos it's very necessary I do so; Tithing is not same as freewill giving. Apostle Paul was referring to freewill giving in the passage you quoted in 2 Corinthians 9:7. Tithing is a command and is specific - 10% of profit. Offering or other giving are freewill and can be any amount.

Lastly, I don't know what bible you are quoting those Hebrew passages from, but this is what my King James bible says

Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

THE PRIESTHOOD WAS CHANGED AND JESUS BECAME OUR HIGH PRIEST! JESUS BEING THE NEW HIGH PRIEST GAVE US A NEW SET OF LAWS WHICH HE SUMMED UP AS FOLLOWS
1) LOVE GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND ALL YOUR SOUL.

2) LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOUR AS YOURSELF.

The same Jesus went further to say "If you love me, you will keep my commandments". This same Jesus says we should pay tithes just as he said we should not look lustfully on a woman. If you love Jesus, you will keep his commandments. If you can convince me that adultery is no longer a sin, because it has been abolished with the law, then you can also convince me that tithing has been abolished with the law. Until then, the only thing that changed with the law was God summing up His commandments into 2 which are love for God and love for your neighbour........if you love GOD, you will not be too greedy to give Him 10% of your profit