₦airaland Forum

Bacteriologist:
How can you certain theists be okay with the idea of eternal torture and threaten anyone with it?

Have you ever seen others suffer? Have you ever seen someone burn alive?

Do you have the ability to imagine yourself in such agony for eternity? And all of that just because someone was not convinced?

It seems like a total lack of empathy, along with a very selfish and egotistical behaviour while being so glad you won't get to suffer in case you're right. Which you most certainly won't be.

Anas09:
If you feel threatened then there is something wrong, because Hell was not created for any human being but for satan and his demons.

Are you a demon? Or is a demon living inside of you? If you are afraid of Hell then there's every reason to believe you are possessed by demons, go for deliverance.

Anas09:
If you feel threatened then there is something wrong, because Hell was not created for any human being but for satan and his demons.

Anas09:
Are you a demon? Or is a demon living inside of you?

HappyPagan:
Let me let you in on a little secret....only believers like yourself fear Hell Fire. No one's more scared of Hell than faithfools like you. That's why you love God so much... You're scared he'll burn you for leaving him.

I pray you find freedom some day. I doubt that will ever happen. Your soul exists no more... Only Jesus.






Yes you are Anas. There is a demon living inside of you...you call him the Holy Spirt.

Bacteriologist:
Myopic comment.

So if hell was created for Satan and his demons, why are humans condemned to hell then? According to your false book of "babble" stories?

HappyPagan:
Let me let you in on a little secret....only believers like yourself fear Hell Fire. No one's more scared of Hell than faithfools like you. That's why you love God so much... You're scared he'll burn you for leaving him.

I pray you find freedom some day. I doubt that will ever happen. Your soul exists no more... Only Jesus.






Yes you are Anas. There is a demon living inside of you...you call him the Holy Spirt.

HappyPagan:
Let me let you in on a little secret....only believers like yourself fear Hell Fire. No one's more scared of Hell than faithfools. That's why you love God so much... You're scared he'll burn you for leaving him.

LordReed:
I am not sure why people think its acceptable, love me or I burn you, that's the statement of an abusive relationship.

CAPSLOCKED:
THEY'RE SCARED OF DEATH, FIRST OF ALL.
I BELIEVE MANY PEOPLE CLING TO RELIGION BECAUSE OF THE FEAR OF DYING.

toyosi20188:
I don't see the reason why you should see hell as a threat, rather than a warning, if you are not scared of it. I know that deep down in the mind of atheists, they might have fancied the possibility of the existence of GOD, that alone makes them scared. However, their quest for 'freedom' and their tendency to incline upon their moral standards subdues such thought,hence,they term reverence for GOD and existence as 'fear'and 'bondage' that man invented for himself.

Anas09:
It is a false book but what is written therein frightens and shakes your groins. Poor wop.

toyosi20188:
I don't see the reason why you should see hell as a threat, rather than a warning, if you are not scared of it. I know that deep down in the mind of atheists, they might have fancied the possibility of the existence of GOD, that alone makes them scared. However, their quest for 'freedom' and their tendency to incline upon their moral standards subdues such thought,hence,they term reverence for GOD and existence as 'fear'and 'bondage' that man invented for himself.

Bacteriologist:
Also, if Satan punishes people in hell for disobeying god who is his enemy, how does that make the slightest sense?

Or yet another plot twist

If bad people go to hell and Satan punishes them therein. Why is Satan the bad guy??

Daejoyoung:
Hellfire is not what Jesus or the bible teaches, only in Revelation do you find lake of fire.

The bible teaches about a fire that destroys the enemy. Think about it for a second, how does a soul without nerves and receptors associated with the skin and brain feel pain and hot torments from a fire? This shows the fire is not literal burning but a form of anguish and torment in Jesus parables.

MuttleyLaff:
Hell or better put, Hades, actually is a Greek concept, the Jews have no concept of Hell or Hades
they have sheol, alright but the concept of Hell or Hades, is a Greek one.

Sheol is more of a proper and real biblical Israelite concept of where the dead are ''interned''

Sheol in an oversimplified or elementary manner can be grave or has been referred as grave

Grave/tomb/sepulchre sites are merely places of deposit for a corpse. Sheol is the realm of the dead or departed souls
- Souls do not linger in the air. Souls do not stay in limbo. Souls do not hang about. Souls do not make revisits

Until Jesus in the NT, Sheol in general, without necessarily distinguishing between righteous or unrighteous souls, has been the realm of the dead or abode of the dead

We have verses in OT (e.g. Psalm 9:17 etcetera) suggesting that the wicked go to Sheol but it was Jesus in the NT that brought things into perspective when He shared the hyperbolic illustration of Sheol with the story of the Rich Man being elsewhere and Abraham with the Poor Man being on a different side. Remember that, just like because you're telling a joke, it doesnt necessarily mean, the joke is devoid of some element of truth and reality so is the case with the parable of the rich man and poor man.

Sheol (i.e. the original Hebrew concept of afterlife) now has gray lines shared with Gehenna (i.e. the refuse dump in Jerusalem hyperbolically referred to by Jesus in Matthew 5:29 Matthew 18:9 and Mark 9:47) and Hell (i.e. a Greek mythology and Greek concept of afterlife) which arent really understood. The etymology of afterlife from a Jewish concept (i.e. Sheol, with 2 sections) has changed over time and Sheol, since, has being interchangeably replaced with Gehenna and Hell/Hades

Reiterating, hell which has become synonymous with Hades, is neither Hebrew or Greek in origin

Sheol is, what you'll find in the original Hebrew text for any word for Hell. In other places, Hades or Hell was the Greek substitution for the part of Sheol where the Rich man is from the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus

As a matter of fact, Hell, actually finds it roots in the classic Greek mythology, Hades, where Hades interestingly and actually, was the ancient Greek god of the underworld. This god's name (i.e. Hades) later turned to mean the place or abode of the dead, which actually is exactly what Sheol is, what is signifies or represents.

Talking about Gehenna, well it is a valley, a valley in Jerusalem, used as a dumping refuse site and so was used by Jesus to depict the Lake of fire (i.e. it is a place of destruction, as in, via incineration, a place for destroying things)

As earlier mentioned, Gehenna was the incinerating refuse dump in Jerusalem. Hades however, historically and originally is the name of a Greek god until it got turned to meaning the place or abode of the dead. It later got interchanged with hell, which is from a German word root. It was bible translators who were substituing the original Hebrew word Sheol (i.e. the part where the dead of the Rich man sort are), with Greek counterparts Hades/Hell that made hell stick with us today

Death is not a physical person but it will cease to exist because it will be destroyed when figuratively thrown into a physical lake of fire

MuttleyLaff:
"Then he will say also to those who are at his left,
'Depart from me, you cursed ones, into eternal fire, that which was prepared for The Devil and for his Angels."
- Matthew 25:41

"And if your hand should cause you to stumble, cut it off;
it is better for you to enter into life crippled,
than having two hands to go away into Gehenna, into the unquenchable fire."
- Mark 9:43

"But I will show you whom you should fear:
Fear the One who has authority, after the killing, to cast into Gehenna. Yes, I say to you, fear Him."
- Luke 12:5

The eternal fire, which some take as meaning hell, was not originally created for man, which explains why it's existence is not mentioned in any of the creation six days, but obviously it was created sometime after the Devil and his angels' rebellion and before the rebellion of Adam and Eve.

If you know, you know. Who no know, no go know

Hell not really a Jewish/Hebraic concept, but its more of a Greek mythology concept, and it is like a dumpster, landfill site and/or refuse tip site. Hell, has the sense of Gehenna, the garbage dump site for the biblical city of Jerusalem, where fires burned continually to destroy the garbage, abandoned and disused stuff.

Hell, in that light, is in fact, a destination place of the evil and/or morally wrong, like quick money making practice ritualist(s) etcetera for an example.

MuttleyLaff:
... Put on your seat belt on and hold tight, I sure hope you have a strong stomach for going on this ride and bumpy road with me, lol.

Cave.Adullam, I've just prayed and hope you be capable enough to patiently read a long post and obtain without difficulty every ounce of info this post is going to be fully charged with, lol. Mind you, I might have to split the post into two parts, as I am guessing if not it'll be a very long post and the gods of Nairaland wont take kindly to something like that, a very long post.

"For if God did not spare the angels having sinned, but having cast them down to Tartarus, in chains of gloomy darkness, delivered them, being kept for judgment;
- 2 Peter 2:4

For if God did not forgive the angels that sinned, but cast them down into the deepest abyss {Gr. Tartarus} and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;"
- 2 Peter 2:4

One of the various sources, that first century people back in biblical times then, got their fable tales and legend info from about angels having sexual intercourse with human beings etcetera was from writings like the Book of Enoch.

Now Cave.Adullam, first thing first, you need to have the understanding of is that the content of Jude 1:6, was originally first mentioned in one of the Petrine epistles. Fyi, Jude 1:6, actually was first mentioned by Peter in 2 Peter 2:4 to be precise and I took the liberty to copy it out, as can be seen above. Jude though copying from Peter's letter, both Peter and Jude, in their individual warning letters both paraphrase the Book of Enoch, I mean look at Enoch 10: 4-9 above, to be precise. Do you notice the similarities? Anyway, it is from Peter's letter, that Jude was taking lead from, when he wrote his version of warning letter to those same believing in fairy tales mytical make-believe stories about angels and taken to all that nonsense and ingredients rubbish thats in the accursed Book of Enoch

There are many telltale signs, that betrays the Book of Enoch and gives it away as a fanstatic speculative fiction book. Some of the telltale signs, I've already before mentioned on this thread, like for example when I earlier responded to one of the nijabazaar comments. The Book of Enoch, no doubt was authored by a Greek mythology influenced first century person with an over-imaginative mind.

As I was saying, the proof of this is in the use of the term "tartarus" which has origins from a Greek mythology influence

Cave.Adullam it'll surprise you to know that the word "tartarus" is only used once in the entire Bible. Why? It is because "tartarus" is a foreign concept to Jewish beliefs. Nobody, no other writer except for Peter, in 2 Peter 2:4 used the Greek mythology influenced "tartarus" word. The word appears only once in the entire New Testament and that was in a warning letter Peter sent to those people who were into Greek mythology and the beliefs in a Greek god named Hades.

Peter was paraphrasing the Book of Enoch when he used the term "tartarus" i[b]n the content of 2 Peter 2:4, and this he did that way because he knew those reading his warning letter are in tune with the[/b] "the Book of Enoch" and will recognise where from, he paraphrased in his warning letter.

Cave.Adullam, lets break down a bit further this word "tartarus" shenanigan, erhn? As I've earlier said, the concept of Tartarus has no history or place in the Jewish belief, it is a concept that has links with ancient Greek mythology. Look at the reproduced quote of mine above, from another thread, talking about Hades etcetera.

Well fyi Cave.Adullam, according to ancient Greek mythology, Tartarus, is one of the realms within Hades. It is situated lower than even Hades (i.e. the deepest abyss of Hades), its the place of the dead, and seen to be a horrible pit of torment in the afterlife, populated by ferocious monsters and the worst of criminals.

Jude was taking cue from Peter, who first paraphrased from the Book of Enoch, as I have earlier advanced. They, as in, both Jude and Peter, used a foreign ideology not anywhere known in scripture, meaning not found in the Bible or in an average Yahweh believing Jewish mind set, but is in books, like the Book of Enoch, well-known to reprobates who would believe in something ludicrous as angels, indulging in sexual relationships with female human beings. Jude or Peter were not in their letters teaching that angels have reproductive plumbing to give seminal fluids to earthly women that will impregnate them, but were using the Book of Enoch as a reference point to warn those unprincipled in their wacko beliefs to stop slandering angels and falsely accusing angels of what they never done. The book of Enoch listed at least, 200 fallen angels, as leaders who vacated their habitation. Go read each one of the Bible verses contextually and read slowly and loudly now to see how Jude and Peter laid into these people, cast aspersions on them and their figment of imagination Cave.Adullam, lol.

Well thats what I thought too, that shouldnt this earth be free from demons and evil spirits if they are already slammed up, so Cave.Adullam, shouldnt we be asking the impostor fake Enoch who wrote that accursed fantasy book of Enoch about this erhn lol?. It is not the first time the impostor fake Enoch has contradicted himself, shot full of holes and tied himself up in a knot with deviant, outlandish, preposterous and freakish storylines.

Emphatic yes, they are also male descendants from the lineage of Seth.

As a matter of fact Cave.Adullam, the sons of God, spoken of in Job 1:6, Job 2:1 and Job 38:7, plus even Genesis 6:2 and 6:4, lol, are male descendants from the lineage of Seth, originated from Adam, the first acknowledged and kofam, son of God, lol.

Bacteriologist:
(1)How can you certain theists (religionists) be okay with the idea of eternal torture and threaten anyone with it?

(2)Have you ever seen others suffer? Have you ever seen someone burn alive?

(3)Do you have the ability to imagine yourself in such agony for eternity? And all of that just because someone was not convinced?

It seems like a total lack of empathy along with a very selfish and egotistical behaviour while being so glad you won't get to suffer in case you're right. Which you most certainly won't be.

Maximus69:
[s]
(1) A powerful WICKED spirit being is behind the idea of a place of eternal torment. God only told the first human pair "you will certainly die". Genesis 2:17

DEATH is the DIRECT opposite of LIFE, but because it's been so long this pronouncement was made, religionists (under the influence of Satan) kept twisting it until they finally concluded "certainly they will NOT die". Genesis 3:4
You can easily read their WICKED hearts as they keep meditating on DEATH being a means of escape for those who wronged them, their assumption is that since both good and bad people do die, there should be an aftermath punishment for the bad ones apart from DEATH!

(2)Well i personal only witnessed where people die through explosives due to the nature of my former profession. But i've never seen someone burnt to death before, i only hear or read it in the news. Ironically this same God that WICKED religionists claim they're worshiping said he detests the sight of people being roasted alive and such idea has NEVER come up into his heart!! Jeremiah 7:31

(3)Satan is their God! He has the mind to think or do anything because of the inclination of his own heart, so WICKED religionists are part of his seeds! John 8:44
God strictly warned his LOYAL servants (who already understood his judicial decisions) that they must try all within their capability to enlighten their neighbours regarding his judgment. Failure to do this, they'll also DIE along with those who DON'T know his judicial decisions! Ezekiel 3:17-21
[/s]

Maximus69:
I never thought you could think of EMPATHY!

Daejoyoung:
Hellfire is not what jesus or the bible teaches, only in Revelation do you find lake of fire. The bible teaches about a fire that destroys the enemy. Think about it for a second, how does a soul without nerves and receptors associated with the skin and brain feel pain and hot torments from a fire? This shows the fire is not literal burning but a form of anguish and torment in jesus parables.

Bacteriologist:
You have to prove that a soul is those things you mentioned before I could accept that souls can not possibly feel pain.

Heck! even those that threaten others with hell cannot prove that there is hell. .so yeah there's that...

DoctorAlien:
But the whole confusion clears up when we understand that Satan himself, his evil angels and evil human beings will be punished together in the same fire, and all of them annihilated.

DoctorAlien:
[s]
"Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:" Matt. 25:41 [/s]

DoctorAlien:
The fire was prepared for (the punishment of) Satan and his angels, but those sinners will partake in it because they chose to side with Satan against God.

DoctorAlien:
And no, they will not burn for eternity, even though the fire is called eternal fire. The fire will consume them "forever and ever" in the sense that they will cease to exist in entirety.

Daejoyoung:
of course if the soul survives after death as is also believed by many christians, then the soul would have no skin to feel the heat/torment of fire.

Bacteriologist:
Ook...So a god creates EVERYTHING in the whole universe including evil and then creates human beings (and some angels) with the ability to commit evil.

Then turns around to blame humans and the angels for the same mess he created in the first place.

Your god, if he exists at all, is a moral thug.




Do not preach or quote the Bible at me. I'm not interested in discussing a book that was used to justify the enslavement of my ancestors.

If you want to talk about the Bible maybe let's bring out the parts where owning other people as property(slavery) is justified, homosexuals can be killed and women cannot teach in churches because they're women. Or where people picking up sticks or herding their cattle on the Sabbath can be put to death.




What a loving god we have here... right.

A god that says: "oh love me and obey me or else you will burn in the fire I prepared for my enemy Satan(whom I created anyway)"

Like who the füčk creates his own enemy?

And how are most of you Christians comfortable with this kind of love? And have the guts to call it unconditional?

"Love me or Burn in hell." Isn't unconditional love. Unconditional love makes no demands. It loves WITHOUT CONDITIONS. A god that punishes people forever for finite crimes, is again, a masochistic, moral thug.





NO..in the sense that you choose to interpret it. Some parts of the Bible even says a particular part of the body will burn for certain thousand of years. But yeah...anything to defend god..

Jesus Christ!! How are a lot of you not disgusted by the concept of an eternal fire created by a so-called loving god?

Bacteriologist:
But you cannot prove that this soul exists
OR
that it does, in fact, not have a skin
OR
that it does not have a skin that feels heat or torment.

And since whatever can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence... including hell...then...

Daejoyoung:
what parts of the bible says this?

Daejoyoung:
Read what l wrote again, l said "if" there is a soul. l hope you understand what the conditional clause "if" indicates?
l am not trying to prove anything, l am agreeing with you that a physical torture to an immaterial soul(as in the christian understanding) makes no sense.

Bacteriologist:
It also does not make sense that a loving, omni-benevolent, all merciful God would create a place of unimaginable suffering for the creation he created with his own hands.

Bacteriologist:
I think I made an error there. I can't seem to find references to that quote yet. I will keep checking but I take that back till I can provide the references.

However, why did you choose to ignore that other parts and specifically highlight the bolded?

Daejoyoung:
what the hell are you talking about? where in my post did l assert this?

Daejoyoung:
Because l know the bolded doesn't exist. l know all the passages that are believed to be about hell, and they are just probably 5% of the bible. When you read the translation and context of those so called passages about a literal eternal hell, you'll see they are usually a kind of misunderstanding.
ln the history of the church, there are three major interpretations of the biblical teaching of the afterlife:
Eternal literal hell fire( mainstream teaching)
Death or Annihilation ( second most popular interpretation and probably closest to the teachings of the bible)
Universalism ( a believe that all would eventually be saved even the devil).

All of these teachings seem to have biblical verses supporting them.