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Atheists Debate Religionists * - Religion - Nairaland

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Einstein On Freewill; Atheists & Religionists Respond * / Can you prove that your God is the real God? - A challenge to all religionists / You Non-religionists, What reasons have You for Forfeiting Religion (2) (3) (4)

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Atheists Debate Religionists * by PoliteActivist: 7:35am On Feb 21
*Politeness*

INTRO

I'll be the umpire, playing devil's advocate for both sides.

Religionists' and Atheists' beliefs are NOT based on logic, therefore trying to talk them out of their beliefs through logic or reasoning is a futile exercise.
A change in them can only start through direct personal experience (as can be be seen in these shorts videos below).

To Religionists:
I watched a TV episode where a seven year old boy had supernatural power to punish people who disobeyed his rules or behaved badly. Soon everybody was behaving properly and obeying his rules. Mind you, he couldn't even read their minds. So Atheists will always use this against you, and you can't give them any satisfactory answer. Then there is their old standby: if God can be self-existing, why can't the universe or vacuum energy that gave rise to the universe be also self-existing?
They'd also ask you if you truly believe the universe is only about 6000 years old.

To Atheists:
Yours is even worse. A religionist can say they had a personal encounter with God. You can't say you heard from God that he doesn't exist! They'll also point out to you that we humans know almost nothing about the true nature of existence. That we are even worse than Einstein's little child in a library - and are therefore in no position to be saying anything doesn't exist, talkless of God!
They'll also point to all the countless miracles through the ages, and all the testimonies - so they are ALL lies, totally made up? They'll also point to the community and ritual available in religion that you can't find in atheism. Also the morality - maybe your potential robber was converted on his way to rob you and is instead in church! They'll also point to the supernatural companionship and placebo effect that comes with faith, not possible with atheism.

To both:
As you can see from videos on hypnosis, we could all be under some sort of cosmic hypnosis or mind control and not know it - we would swear we are acting out of free will. But only ALMOST all of us would be fooled. The best geniuses amongst us would somehow be able to figure out we are under some sort of mind control - which they did! Einstein figured out that freewill is an illusion; while our other geniuses say we are very likely in some sort of a simulation!

https://youtube.com/shorts/WLM9roC5lJg?si=LE2K2klgbGCR8xPn

https://youtube.com/shorts/1W1-KBRY0e8?si=JOGIxtEj-gQpeNw_

https://youtube.com/shorts/ed_Nl_MimYY?si=412kQUnA43FEBt3J

DeepSight, HellVictorinho6, FxMasterz, maynman, Dtruthspeaker, Image123, DrJones109, Jesusjnr2022
Seun, HopefulLandlord, LordReed, Jaephoenix
Knownunknown, TheSourcerer. Busybrain2233
1Sharon, TakeNigeriaBack, Botragelad, Fourthpredator, Lorrayne, HardMirror, Hahn
SlawG, albreezy4eva, Muslim, Dominique, Mrbroke
EnemyofGod2, kkins25, Wilgrea7, A001 SIXFEETUNDER, OkpaNsukkaisBae, Bacteriologist
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Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by Maynthemayn: 7:41am On Feb 21
Only the mind can be hypnotized.

Religionist are people that believe in what they lack knowledge on, even Paul or is it Saul, called religion, superstitions. Acts 17:22.
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by BBIA: 7:46am On Feb 21
PoliteActivist:
*Politeness*

INTRO

Religionists' and Atheists' beliefs are NOT based on logic, therefore trying to talk them out of their beliefs through logic or reasoning is a futile exercise.
A change in them can only start through direct personal experience (as can be be seen in these shorts videos below).

To Religionists:
I watched a TV episode where a seven year old boy had supernatural power to punish people who disobeyed his rules or behaved badly. Soon everybody was behaving properly and obeying his rules. Mind you, he couldn't even read their minds. So Atheists will always use this against you, and you can't give them any satisfactory answer. Then there is their old standby: if God can be self-existing, why can't the universe or vacuum energy that gave rise to the universe be also self-existing?
They'd also ask you if you truly believe the universe is only about 6000 years old.

To Atheists:
Yours is even worse. A religionist can say they had a personal encounter with God. You can't say you heard from God that he doesn't exist! They'll also point out to you that we humans know almost nothing about the true nature of existence. That we are even worse than Einstein's little child in a library - and are therefore in no position to be saying anything doesn't exist, talkless of God!
They'll also point to all the countless miracles through the ages, and all the testimonies - so they are ALL lies, totally made up? They'll also point to the community and ritual available in religion that you can't find in atheism. Also the morality - maybe your potential robber was converted on his way to rob you and is instead in church! They'll also point to the supernatural companionship and placebo effect that comes with faith, not possible with atheism.

To both:
As you can see from videos on hypnosis, we could all be under some sort of cosmic hypnosis or mind control and not know it - we would swear we are acting out of free will. But only ALMOST all of us would be fooled. The best geniuses amongst us would somehow be able to figure out we are under some sort of mind control - which they did! Einstein figured out that freewill is an illusion; while our other geniuses say we are very likely in some sort of a simulation!

https://youtube.com/shorts/WLM9roC5lJg?si=LE2K2klgbGCR8xPn

https://youtube.com/shorts/1W1-KBRY0e8?si=JOGIxtEj-gQpeNw_

https://youtube.com/shorts/ed_Nl_MimYY?si=412kQUnA43FEBt3J

Just like I believe that Destiny and Coincidence cannot coexist.

it must be only one or the other.



last last if destiny exists over coincidence, we have no freewill and God the use us play koso. cool
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by PoliteActivist: 7:51am On Feb 21
BBIA:

Just like I believe that Destiny and Coincidence cannot coexist.

it must be only one or the other.



last last if destiny exists over coincidence, we have no freewill and God the use us play koso. cool

Aahh, but then you are forgetting something...
Quantum mechanics!
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by MaxInDHouse(m): 8:09am On Feb 21
I don't debate atheist they don't believe in true logic faith is logical as you can't see anything done under the sun without faith.
So remove my name because atheists know me that i always present logical reasoning they can never refute! undecided
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by BBIA: 8:18am On Feb 21
PoliteActivist:


Aahh, but then you are forgetting something...
Quantum mechanics!
No I am not.

Like I said before. Destiny and Coincidence cannot coexist. there can be one and one only. that’s what I believe in.

Their definitions perfectly contradict each other.

Destiny refers to the predetermined, inevitable course of events or the ultimate fate of an individual or thing. It suggests that certain events are bound to happen, often attributed to a higher power or cosmic order.”

while

”A coincidence is the occurrence of events that happen by chance and have no apparent causal connection. It's when things happen simultaneously or in close succession, creating a sense of unexpected correlation, but without a deliberate cause or design”.

If Destiny exists, then all events have already been predetermined to happen, even those in quantum physics.

If in turn it doesn’t not and it really happens randomly and events happen by chance, then destiny has no part in it.


I hope now you will see what I mean.

1 Like

Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by PoliteActivist: 8:23am On Feb 21
Maynthemayn:
Only the mind can be hypnotized.

Religionist are people that believe in what they lack knowledge on, even Paul or is it Saul, called religion, superstitions. Acts 17:22.

What do you mean?
Only the mind needs to be hypnotized/controlled
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by Maynthemayn: 8:24am On Feb 21
PoliteActivist:


What do you mean?
Only the mind needs to be hypnotized/controlled
Only the mind can be hypnotized, in fact only the subconscious mind can be hypnotized.

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by HellVictorinho6(m): 9:08am On Feb 21
PoliteActivist:
*Politeness*

INTRO

Religionists' and Atheists' beliefs are NOT based on logic, therefore trying to talk them out of their beliefs through logic or reasoning is a futile exercise.
A change in them can only start through direct personal experience (as can be be seen in these shorts videos below).

To Religionists:
I watched a TV episode where a seven year old boy had supernatural power to punish people who disobeyed his rules or behaved badly. Soon everybody was behaving properly and obeying his rules. Mind you, he couldn't even read their minds. So Atheists will always use this against you, and you can't give them any satisfactory answer. Then there is their old standby: if God can be self-existing, why can't the universe or vacuum energy that gave rise to the universe be also self-existing?
They'd also ask you if you truly believe the universe is only about 6000 years old.

To Atheists:
Yours is even worse. A religionist can say they had a personal encounter with God. You can't say you heard from God that he doesn't exist! They'll also point out to you that we humans know almost nothing about the true nature of existence. That we are even worse than Einstein's little child in a library - and are therefore in no position to be saying anything doesn't exist, talkless of God!
They'll also point to all the countless miracles through the ages, and all the testimonies - so they are ALL lies, totally made up? They'll also point to the community and ritual available in religion that you can't find in atheism. Also the morality - maybe your potential robber was converted on his way to rob you and is instead in church! They'll also point to the supernatural companionship and placebo effect that comes with faith, not possible with atheism.

To both:
As you can see from videos on hypnosis, we could all be under some sort of cosmic hypnosis or mind control and not know it - we would swear we are acting out of free will. But only ALMOST all of us would be fooled. The best geniuses amongst us would somehow be able to figure out we are under some sort of mind control - which they did! Einstein figured out that freewill is an illusion; while our other geniuses say we are very likely in some sort of a simulation!

https://youtube.com/shorts/WLM9roC5lJg?si=LE2K2klgbGCR8xPn

https://youtube.com/shorts/1W1-KBRY0e8?si=JOGIxtEj-gQpeNw_

https://youtube.com/shorts/ed_Nl_MimYY?si=412kQUnA43FEBt3J


HEAR from xyz that he DOESNT EXIST?


oh itz cosmic grammar

so we can as well write on water


we COULD .....be in a....yet u say xyz FIGURED OUT?

Still cosmic incantations

Then the grouping of nairalanders ..... I dont feel special in either category.


Can u ask ur subordinates 2 send me anything now undecided

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by PoliteActivist: 9:42am On Feb 21
MaxInDHouse:
I don't debate atheist they don't believe in true logic faith is logical as you can't see anything done under the sun without faith.
So remove my name because atheists know me that i always present logical reasoning they can never refute! undecided

I'll remove your name. But faith is illogical and is meant to be illogical. If you don't know that then you don't understand what is faith. What do you think is meant by evidence of things not seen nor felt?
Also if you are intellectually honest for once, you'd acknowledge there's something funny about creating someone, giving them a certain type of brain, knowing in advance they'll disobey you, THEN when they use the brain to disobey you, you don’t punish them temporarily so they'll learn a lesson and not try such again...
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by MaxInDHouse(m): 9:45am On Feb 21
PoliteActivist:


I'll remove your name. But faith is illogical and is meant to be illogical. If you don't know that then you don't understand what is faith. What do you think is meant by evidence of things not seen nor felt?
Also if you are intellectually honest for once, you'd acknowledge there's something funny about creating someone, giving them a certain type of brain, knowing in advance they'll disobey you, THEN when they use the brain to disobey you, you don’t punish them temporarily so they'll learn a lesson and not try such again...
Nothing is logical if you think faith is illogical but that's for another day.
If you want to debate atheists go ahead don't bring me into your fight with them! wink
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by Dtruthspeaker: 12:20pm On Feb 21
PoliteActivist:

But faith is illogical and is meant to be illogical. ..

Meanwhile, faith is not illogical but stupid people have not figured it out hence why the bible Said they are blind
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by Image123(m): 12:25pm On Feb 21
PoliteActivist:
*Politeness*

INTRO

Religionists' and Atheists' beliefs are NOT based on logic, therefore trying to talk them out of their beliefs through logic or reasoning is a futile exercise.
A change in them can only start through direct personal experience (as can be be seen in these shorts videos below).

To Religionists:
I watched a TV episode where a seven year old boy had supernatural power to punish people who disobeyed his rules or behaved badly. Soon everybody was behaving properly and obeying his rules. Mind you, he couldn't even read their minds. So Atheists will always use this against you, and you can't give them any satisfactory answer. Then there is their old standby: if God can be self-existing, why can't the universe or vacuum energy that gave rise to the universe be also self-existing?
They'd also ask you if you truly believe the universe is only about 6000 years old.

To Atheists:
Yours is even worse. A religionist can say they had a personal encounter with God. You can't say you heard from God that he doesn't exist! They'll also point out to you that we humans know almost nothing about the true nature of existence. That we are even worse than Einstein's little child in a library - and are therefore in no position to be saying anything doesn't exist, talkless of God!
They'll also point to all the countless miracles through the ages, and all the testimonies - so they are ALL lies, totally made up? They'll also point to the community and ritual available in religion that you can't find in atheism. Also the morality - maybe your potential robber was converted on his way to rob you and is instead in church! They'll also point to the supernatural companionship and placebo effect that comes with faith, not possible with atheism.

To both:
As you can see from videos on hypnosis, we could all be under some sort of cosmic hypnosis or mind control and not know it - we would swear we are acting out of free will. But only ALMOST all of us would be fooled. The best geniuses amongst us would somehow be able to figure out we are under some sort of mind control - which they did! Einstein figured out that freewill is an illusion; while our other geniuses say we are very likely in some sort of a simulation!

https://youtube.com/shorts/WLM9roC5lJg?si=LE2K2klgbGCR8xPn

https://youtube.com/shorts/1W1-KBRY0e8?si=JOGIxtEj-gQpeNw_

https://youtube.com/shorts/ed_Nl_MimYY?si=412kQUnA43FEBt3J


Actually, i am not a religionist, i am a child of God. What's your question, i didn't seem to pick it?
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by Aemmyjah(m): 2:16pm On Feb 21
Nonsense
How can energy be self-existing?
Scientists say that the universe is a billion years old and the world began as a big bang
Atheists rely on science especially unscientific facts such as evolution and big bang and spontaneous generation and abiogenesis

Logic tells me that nothing came from nothing
Logic tells me that life cannot produce non life
Logic tells me that order and organization cannot arise from chaos
Logic tells me that every design has a designer
Logic tells me that intelligence cannot come by chaos.
Logic tells me that laws have a lawgiver

You, MR OP are an atheist. One cannot claim to be Christian and Atheist or neither or neutral.
One who claims neutral is indecisive
One is talks favorably about religion and atheism is an atheist
Your supposition about the 7 year old is false

The biggest question is if life does not have a source and the order in the universe does not have a designer?
Faith is not gullible. Faith is not blind. One must make up his mind and be ready to defend his faith

I love science and proven scientific facts points more towards the Creator
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by Aemmyjah(m): 2:20pm On Feb 21
PoliteActivist:


I'll remove your name. But faith is illogical and is meant to be illogical. If you don't know that then you don't understand what is faith. What do you think is meant by evidence of things not seen nor felt?
Also if you are intellectually honest for once, you'd acknowledge there's something funny about creating someone, giving them a certain type of brain, knowing in advance they'll disobey you, THEN when they use the brain to disobey you, you don’t punish them temporarily so they'll learn a lesson and not try such again...

You're the atheists
Cunningly trying to create this thread
Atheists have nothing meaningful to teach
Just doubt nd confusion to enforce on others or subtly try to make them to adopt
Faith is not, was not and will never be illogical
Atheism is the definition of illogism
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by PoliteActivist: 2:22pm On Feb 21
HellVictorinho6:


HEAR from xyz that he DOESNT EXIST?


oh itz cosmic grammar

so we can as well write on water


we COULD .....be in a....yet u say xyz FIGURED OUT?

Still cosmic incantations

Then the grouping of nairalanders ..... I dont feel special in either category.


Can u ask ur subordinates 2 send me anything now undecided

Oh, about sending you money, my subordinates say they are inundated - too many people who have nothing to eat, talkless of having data to be on Nairaland.
Some people believe God exists and some people don't. Which category are you under and why?
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by DeepSight(m): 2:33pm On Feb 21
PoliteActivist:
*Politeness*

INTRO

I'll be the umpire, playing devil's advocate for both sides.

Religionists' and Atheists' beliefs are NOT based on logic, therefore trying to talk them out of their beliefs through logic or reasoning is a futile exercise.
A change in them can only start through direct personal experience (as can be be seen in these shorts videos below).

To Religionists:
I watched a TV episode where a seven year old boy had supernatural power to punish people who disobeyed his rules or behaved badly. Soon everybody was behaving properly and obeying his rules. Mind you, he couldn't even read their minds. So Atheists will always use this against you, and you can't give them any satisfactory answer. Then there is their old standby: if God can be self-existing, why can't the universe or vacuum energy that gave rise to the universe be also self-existing?
They'd also ask you if you truly believe the universe is only about 6000 years old.

To Atheists:
Yours is even worse. A religionist can say they had a personal encounter with God. You can't say you heard from God that he doesn't exist! They'll also point out to you that we humans know almost nothing about the true nature of existence. That we are even worse than Einstein's little child in a library - and are therefore in no position to be saying anything doesn't exist, talkless of God!
They'll also point to all the countless miracles through the ages, and all the testimonies - so they are ALL lies, totally made up? They'll also point to the community and ritual available in religion that you can't find in atheism. Also the morality - maybe your potential robber was converted on his way to rob you and is instead in church! They'll also point to the supernatural companionship and placebo effect that comes with faith, not possible with atheism.

To both:
As you can see from videos on hypnosis, we could all be under some sort of cosmic hypnosis or mind control and not know it - we would swear we are acting out of free will. But only ALMOST all of us would be fooled. The best geniuses amongst us would somehow be able to figure out we are under some sort of mind control - which they did! Einstein figured out that freewill is an illusion; while our other geniuses say we are very likely in some sort of a simulation!

https://youtube.com/shorts/WLM9roC5lJg?si=LE2K2klgbGCR8xPn

https://youtube.com/shorts/1W1-KBRY0e8?si=JOGIxtEj-gQpeNw_

https://youtube.com/shorts/ed_Nl_MimYY?si=412kQUnA43FEBt3J


Please don't cite me as a religionist for I subscribe to no religion.
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by DeepSight(m): 2:35pm On Feb 21
Image123:


Actually, i am not a religionist, i am a child of God. What's your question, i didn't seem to pick it?

But you are a Christian, are you not?
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by PoliteActivist: 3:05pm On Feb 21
DeepSight:


Please don't cite me as a religionist for I subscribe to no religion.

OK. Corrected (see below). Still, defend your position on God. Is it something you arrived at logically, or is it due to personal experience, or just something you were born into, or just something you choose to believe?

DeepSight, HellVictorinho6, FxMasterz, maynman, Dtruthspeaker, Image123, DrJones109, Jesusjnr2022
Seun, HopefulLandlord, LordReed, Jaephoenix
Knownunknown, TheSourcerer. Busybrain2233
1Sharon, TakeNigeriaBack, Botragelad, Fourthpredator, Lorrayne, HardMirror, Hahn
SlawG, albreezy4eva, Muslim, Dominique, Mrbroke
EnemyofGod2, kkins25, Wilgrea7, A001 SIXFEETUNDER, OkpaNsukkaisBae, Bacteriologist
FRANCISTOWN
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by PoliteActivist: 3:08pm On Feb 21
MaxInDHouse:

Nothing is logical if you think faith is illogical but that's for another day.
If you want to debate atheists go ahead don't bring me into your fight with them! wink

Dtruthspeaker:


Meanwhile, faith is not illogical but stupid people have not figured it out hence why the bible Said they are blind

I guess we have to define "logical". Logical is scientific. It is from A you have to go through B to get to C. Faith is from A you can get to Z without the intervening steps of B, C, D, etc. Faith is also if A=1, and B=2, A+B can equal 44.

I'll be the umpire, playing devil's advocate for both sides.

DeepSight, HellVictorinho6, FxMasterz, maynman, Image123, DrJones109, Jesusjnr2022
Seun, HopefulLandlord, LordReed, Jaephoenix
Knownunknown, TheSourcerer. Busybrain2233
1Sharon, TakeNigeriaBack, Botragelad, Fourthpredator, Lorrayne, HardMirror, Hahn
SlawG, albreezy4eva, Muslim, Dominique, Mrbroke
EnemyofGod2, kkins25, Wilgrea7, A001 SIXFEETUNDER, OkpaNsukkaisBae, Bacteriologist
FRANCISTOWN
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by Image123(m): 3:08pm On Feb 21
DeepSight:


But you are a Christian, are you not?

If you say so, but not in the sense that many are. i am a disciple of Jesus Christ like you well know.
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by Image123(m): 3:12pm On Feb 21
PoliteActivist:


OK. Corrected (see below). Still defend your position on God. Is it something you arrived at logically, or is it due to personal experience, or just something you were born into, or just something you choose to believe?




Is life arrived at logically? Who makes logic superior and who defines logic? Is it logical for the many 1st class graduates to be jobless or slave away for people with lesser or no degrees? This logic worship ehn, i no think say e follow.
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by DeepSight(m): 3:12pm On Feb 21
Image123:


If you say so, but not in the sense that many are. i am a disciple of Jesus Christ like you well know.

You have a denomination, do you not.
You go to church, do you not?
You pay tithes and offering, do you not?
You take communion, do you not?
You believe in Jesus as your "personal Lord and Savior" do you not?
You believe that Jesus' death on the cross provides salvation for you, do you not?

1 Like

Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by DeepSight(m): 3:14pm On Feb 21
PoliteActivist:


OK. Corrected (see below). Still, defend your position on God. Is it something you arrived at logically, or is it due to personal experience, or just something you were born into, or just something you choose to believe?




I am not an atheist either. God exists, but is unknowable.
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by Maynthemayn: 3:16pm On Feb 21
DeepSight:


I am not an atheist either. God exists, but is unknowable.
But you already "know" it exist and called God not Goddess?
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by Image123(m): 3:18pm On Feb 21
DeepSight:


You have a denomination, do you not.
You go to church, do you not?
You pay tithes and offering, do you not?
You take communion, do you not?
You believe in Jesus as your "personal Lord and Savior" do you not?
You believe that Jesus' death on the cross provides salvation for you, do you not?

i give tithes and offerings DeepS.
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by DeepSight(m): 3:20pm On Feb 21
Image123:


i give tithes and offerings DeepS.

So you are a Christian, and in the very normal sense too.
Stop seeking to differentiate and distinguish yourself from other Christians - that is pride and ego and thus is of the Devil - Shaitan, also known as Iblis.
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by Image123(m): 3:23pm On Feb 21
DeepSight:


So you are a Christian, and in the very normal sense too.
Stop seeking to differentiate and distinguish yourself from other Christians - that is pride and ego and thus is of the Devil - Shaitan, also known as Iblis.

i am not a religionist, DeepS.
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by DeepSight(m): 3:23pm On Feb 21
Maynthemayn:

But you already "know" it exist and called God not Goddess?

God is probably sexless. Even if in my private sensing the "first" vibration of existence is a feminine one.
Now, it is true that one may infer certain things about God, but that does not mean that God is truly knowable. For example, we say that God is transcendental - and yet, knowing that, only emphasizes that IT is beyond us to know.
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by DeepSight(m): 3:24pm On Feb 21
Image123:


i am not a religionist, DeepS.

This is the way Christians always shout - "Christianity is not a religion, it is a way of life!"
But a religion is indeed a way of life as well!
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by Maynthemayn: 3:27pm On Feb 21
DeepSight:


God is probably sexless. Even if in my private sensing the "first" vibration of existence is a feminine one.
Now, it is true that one may infer certain things about God, but that does not mean that God is truly knowable. For example, we say that God is transcendental - and yet, knowing that, only emphasizes that IT is beyond us to know.
So this god is an entity and this god is the first vibration of existence.
That means it didn't create existence, and just a part of it.

Do people know he is transcendental or believe so? Most people who say it are theists.

As long as you can label this god with attributes, it's ALREADY knowable.
Re: Atheists Debate Religionists * by DeepSight(m): 3:31pm On Feb 21
Maynthemayn:

So this god is an entity and this god is the first vibration of existence.
That means it didn't create existence, and just a part of it.

Do people know he is transcendental or believe so? Most people who say it are theists.

As long as you can label this god with attributes, it's ALREADY knowable.

Well perhaps certain elementary things about God are knowable, but IT remains unknowable in its fullness - by this I mean ineffable and incomprehensible - but the lines here are so subtle I would not wish to argue the point.

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