₦airaland Forum

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This is the how the universe was created

LordReed:
LMFAO! It is from you I am hearing of anti-god cosmology for the first time so I assume it was taught to you from the place where you come to regal us with all those many stories you like to tell.

Please tell us, what is this anti-god cosmology, enlighten us o master Ihedinobi3. Wow your name even sounds like Obiwan Kenobi. LMFAO!

There are different cosmological models, BB is the one everybody seems to have heard about. I don't prefer BB over others because none of them are complete, understand?

Well better than the fevered dreams of nomadic desert animal hearders. LMFAO!

Cosmologies seek either to explain the Universe exclusive of God or to explain it inclusive of God. I know that you know this since that is the whole point that you have been fighting over here. In so far as a cosmology excludes God, it is anti-God.

LordReed, there can be a hundred and a thousand. The point is that atheism necessarily has a basis for rejecting belief in God and that basis is what the alternative to God is.

LordReed:
Absolutely. Abi how do you think serial killers and the like are profiled?

You are incredible. I promise you, you are.

The only reason that crimes are compared to multiple MOs is to find which MO matches the crime. That means that if all you have is one MO and there is a match, the case is for all logical reasons solved. You don't need other MOs for any further comparison.

Horiolah:
more like he died for three days.lol

i'm sure if you live in syria,Palestine or Yemen. you won't say he love u.

i was reading a JW's book today and it says, Jesus won't alter with whatever God did, that was to counter the fact that God didn't create evil, it was backed with a bible qoute,, you and i knw God also said he created all things; evil and good... Now if that isn't a contradiction i don't knw whay is.

So what if He did? His Death was worse than that though, but what if He did? Would you die for a second for me? Abeg!

And why would I say that if I lived in any of those places? You live maybe in Nigeria which is slightly better and you can't stand His existence much less admit His Love for you. Chances are that you could live in Heaven itself and still spit on anyone who tells you that He loves you and you are talking about Yemen. Nothing is ever enough to persuade those hardened in unbelief.

LOL. Isaiah 45:7 was speaking of calamity, unpleasantness or adversity, not moral evil. God is Perfect. He never creates evil. And I don't care a hoot for what JWs believe.

Ihedinobi3:
So what if He did? His Death was worse than that though, but what if He did? Would you die for a second for me? Abeg!

And why would I say that if I lived in any of those places? You live maybe in Nigeria which is slightly better and you can't stand His existence much less admit His Love for you. Chances are that you could live in Heaven itself and still spit on anyone who tells you that He loves you and you are talking about Yemen. Nothing is ever enough to persuade those hardened in unbelief.

LOL. Isaiah 45:7 was speaking of calamity, unpleasantness or adversity, not moral evil. God is Perfect. He never creates evil. And I don't care a hoot for what JWs believe.

Jesus died for you but he is still alive, lol

let say herdsmen came to your neighbourhood and kill everyone but you, i bet you're gonna send them a thank you note for sparing u. think broda.

I created all things, evil and good. but you ihedinobi say no be so, which one make i believe??

Ihedinobi3:
LOL. Isaiah 45:7 was speaking of calamity, unpleasantness or adversity, not moral evil. God is Perfect. He never creates evil. And I don't care a hoot for what JWs believe.

Another LIE if we are to base it on the INERRANT BIBLE. This verse speaks so plainly that it baffles me why you refuse to accept it because it does not fit into your theology - smh


"The Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him." - 1 Samuel 16:14

"God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the leaders of Shechem and caused them to treat Abimelech deceitfully" - Judges 9:23

"And he replied, 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' 'You will surely entice him and prevail,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it " - 1 Kings 22:22

What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? - Job 2:10

"Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? " - Amos 3:6



KEEP LYIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING

Horiolah:
Jesus died for you but he is still alive, lol

let say herdsmen came to your neighbourhood and kill everyone but you, i bet you're gonna send them a thank you note for sparing u. think broda.

I created all things, evil and good. but you ihedinobi say no be so, which one make i believe??

The Guy is a LIAR for JESUS !!

Ihedinobi3:
You are incredible. I promise you, you are.

The only reason that crimes are compared to multiple MOs is to find which MO matches the crime. That means that if all you have is one MO and there is a match, the case is for all logical reasons solved. You don't need other MOs for any further comparison.

LoL! There is always a process of elimination, they must by necessity make sure they narrow down the likely suspects by a process of elimination. This is not some cop show where they instantly know who the culprit is.

The question still stands how did you know this is how a universe your god made as opposed to the one that wasn't made by your god?

frosbel2:
The Guy is a LIAR for JESUS !!

i don tire sef

Horiolah:
Jesus died for you but he is still alive, lol

let say herdsmen came to your neighbourhood and kill everyone but you, i bet you're gonna send them a thank you note for sparing u. think broda.

I created all things, evil and good. but you ihedinobi say no be so, which one make i believe??

How happy you would be if He wasn't, right? He is, thank God, and that is why I look forward to a Resurrection. But if you were told to die for me for a second and be brought back to life, I have no doubt that you would say anything emphatic NO.

Why would I do such a thing? Because, like you, I don't believe in God and Heaven?

Feel free to look it up in multiple translations of the Bible.

LordReed:
LoL! There is always a process of elimination, they must by necessity make sure they narrow down the likely suspects by a process of elimination. This is not some cop show where they instantly know who the culprit is.

The question still stands how did you know this is how a universe your god made as opposed to the one that wasn't made by your god?

#Facepalm

Ihedinobi3:
How happy you would be if He wasn't, right? He is, thank God, and that is why I look forward to a Resurrection. But if you were told to die for me for a second and be brought back to life, I have no doubt that you would say anything emphatic NO.

Why would I do such a thing? Because, like you, I don't believe in God and Heaven?

Feel free to look it up in multiple translations of the Bible.

then he didn't die for your sin if he isn't dead.
i would definitely die for my kids if it is gonna save them, but if i have a power such as you proclaim ur god to, i'd stop any evil or temptation going to them whether they like me or nt, that my friend is all loving.

dude accept it like dat, he created evil.

Horiolah:
then he didn't die for your sin if he isn't dead.
i would definitely die for my kids if it is gonna save them, but if i have a power such as you proclaim ur god to, i'd stop any evil or temptation going to them whether they like me or nt, that my friend is all loving.

dude accept it like dat, he created evil.

I don't really understand how your brain is processing this.

He has to stay dead in order to have died for my sins? Why? Because you decree that it should be that way?

No, frankly, if I could give you that power myself, I wouldn't. Because you haven't demonstrated sufficient intelligence to merit it.

Why should I? Because Horiolah said so? Please!

Ihedinobi3:
I don't really understand how your brain is processing this.

He has to stay dead in order to have died for my sins? Why? Because you decree that it should be that way?

No, frankly, if I could give you that power myself, I wouldn't. Because you haven't demonstrated sufficient intelligence to merit it.

Why should I? Because Horiolah said so? Please!

chai my brain don dey pain me o, this guy u be clown o, no offense.

jack died for rose, jack's dead. krishna sorry jesus died for you, but baba still dey ALIVE, explain d death.

your god wey get d power decide to keep am while children die all over the world in the most barbaric way possible.

i create evil i kon tell u say na me create am, if u dey follow me u no go say otherwise.

if you cant understand something diz simple then i get it. you just wan damage my brain.

Ihedinobi3:
Cosmologies seek either to explain the Universe exclusive of God or to explain it inclusive of God. I know that you know this since that is the whole point that you have been fighting over here. In so far as a cosmology excludes God, it is anti-God.

LordReed, there can be a hundred and a thousand. The point is that atheism necessarily has a basis for rejecting belief in God and that basis is what the alternative to God is.

LoL! Thats what you'd like to think, that we reject gods because there is an alternative and I tell you once again it is irrelevant to the discussion. Even if BB and evolution are disproved tomorrow you still need to present evidence for your god, that is basis for atheism, no other.

Ihedinobi3:
#Facepalm

[img]https://media./images/925b71c16117e7143b1e97653551bc64/tenor.gif[/img]

frosbel2:
Another LIE if we are to base it on the INERRANT BIBLE. This verse speaks so plainly that it baffles me why you refuse to accept it because it does not fit into your theology - smh


"The Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him." - 1 Samuel 16:14

"God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the leaders of Shechem and caused them to treat Abimelech deceitfully" - Judges 9:23

"And he replied, 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' 'You will surely entice him and prevail,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it " - 1 Kings 22:22

What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? - Job 2:10

"Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? " - Amos 3:6



KEEP LYIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING

frosbel2:
Another LIE if we are to base it on the INERRANT BIBLE. This verse speaks so plainly that it baffles me why you refuse to accept it because it does not fit into your theology - smh


"The Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him." - 1 Samuel 16:14

"God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the leaders of Shechem and caused them to treat Abimelech deceitfully" - Judges 9:23

"And he replied, 'I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.' 'You will surely entice him and prevail,' said the LORD. 'Go and do it " - 1 Kings 22:22

What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? - Job 2:10

"Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? " - Amos 3:6



KEEP LYIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING

Regarding the verse in Isaiah, the first thing to state is that, as you well know, the prophet wrote in Hebrew, not in English. Translations therefore can be wrong or just misleading depending on the audience and the translators.

"Evil" was not the wrong word but it can be misleading since we tend to conceive of evil in contemporary times in a purely moral sense. But evil also connotes unpleasantness in a non-moral sense. For example, "evil times" would really mean "difficult times" or "painful times" or "disastrous times", not necessarily "times of moral wickedness".

I am attaching screenshots of the Biblehub website where you will see a lot of different translations of that verse. They demonstrate that there are different possible ways to translate the same thing.

But this is not the only argument. Arguments about translations are sufficient generally but there is another thing which is, of course, meaningless to antichristians but which is critical to Bible interpretation. It is the essential unity of the Bible. That means that it is impossible that any part of the Bible will contradict any other. For this reason, when there is a strange reading, there is always another to clarify it.

James 1:17 makes it clear that only good and perfect things come from God Who is Himself unchanging. 1 John 1:5 also teaches that there is nothing evil in God at all. Then in Ecclesiastes 7:29, the Bible makes very clear that God created human beings perfect but they themselves corrupted themselves. This is also taught about Satan in Ezekiel 28:15. He too was created perfect but he too corrupted himself.

These parts of the Bible are deliberate witnesses to the fact that moral evil has nothing to do with God. I'll come back to that shortly.

For now, however, this is another argument from the Bible that it is impossible that Isaiah 45:7 meant moral evil at all.

Then there is the linguistic evidence. Note the following:

[7]I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 KJV

Opposite to darkness is light. Why then is "moral evil" opposite to peace? What does peace have to do with moral evil? One would expect righteousness in place of peace since this is a matching of opposites. But it isn't so. Rather we have "peace" opposite to "evil". If we take into account that "evil" does have a meaning that can be stacked opposite to "peace", then it only makes sense to understand Isaiah 45:7 to be referring to another kind of evil that is consistent with everything else that the Bible says.

Obviously, God acts in the capacity of a judge over His Creation. As such, He does punish wrong-doing in keeping with His Justice. That punishment is never pleasant. That is why it is called "calamity", "adversity", or "evil".

This is exactly what is in view in four out of the five passages you posted. In only one passage (Job 2:10) did it refer to testing rather than punishment.

Obviously, God is at full liberty to use any of His creatures any way He pleases. He is not under any obligation to act as you demand that He should. He uses Satan and all evil spirits to accomplish His Purposes both of testing and of discipline. Satan and the other rebel angels too are only too pleased to have freedom to hurt or harm human beings of all sorts whenever they can. They are under rules of engagement that limit their activity upon humans at great peril to themselves, otherwise they would do much much worse than they have been recorded in the Bible to do or that we have been able to observe. In fact, during the Tribulation, they will go pretty much berserk and help to reduce the number of human beings still alive until it is proverbial.

Given this fact, when hardened rebels like Abimelech and Ahab continue to push the envelope with their desire to make and follow their own "truth", then there are many rebel angels who would be more than pleased to give them such "truths" if God lets them. In fact, the Bible teaches in Romans 1:28 and 2 Thessalonians 2:11 that when people are obstinately pursuing error, God Himself will remove all impediments to their revelling in it to their own damage. That too is part of His Judgment upon evil.

In Saul's case, he was a believer who was walking in mad disobedience to God and God punished Him by sending a rebel angel to torment him emotionally.

Regarding the passage in Amos, there is no "natural disaster" that was not ordered by God Himself. These things are judgments the Lord renders on whole cities, communities, nations. They too are calamities, adversities, and even evils but not moral evil at all.

These things are evils. But they are no "moral evils".

Now, my answer was not really for yours or any antichristian's benefit, frosbel. There is no way to please an antichristian except to deny Christ and the Bible. I have no intention to deny Him either. So, this is just to make sure that you do not cause a weak believer to stumble.

LordReed:
LoL! Thats what you'd like to think, that we reject gods because there is an alternative and I tell you once again it is irrelevant to the discussion. Even if BB and evolution are disproved tomorrow you still need to present evidence for your god, that is basis for atheism, no other.

Dude, you are very very bad at debates. Terrible, in fact. You're embarrassing to debate with. You're not the worst though. But it is little consolation since those worse are not very different from you.

Let me recap it for you again:

1. You reject the existence of God on the basis of the claim that there is no evidence for Him.

2. The Christian's evidence for God is the Universe you observe around you.

3. You claim that this is not evidence.

4. You are then required to explain what it is.

5. (Fill in the gap, LordReed).


**Just to avoid your hemming and hawwing, #5 is where you start stammering about exploding nothings and aliens. Get the picture now, Deadpool?

[quote author=Ihedinobi3 post=75175149]Regarding the verse in Isaiah, the first thing to state is that, as you well know, the prophet wrote in Hebrew, not in English. Translations therefore can be wrong or just misleading depending on the audience and the translators.

Here we go again. Are you more well versed in the classical languages than the scholars who translated the bible into English ? Most of the scholars who translated the scriptures into the Kings James version , went to Cambridge and Oxford and were the best out there when it came to ability and expertise. What does Ihedinobi3 know in comparison to these distinguished sholars ?

"Evil" was not the wrong word but it can be misleading since we tend to conceive of evil in contemporary times in a purely moral sense. But evil also connotes unpleasantness in a non-moral sense. For example, "evil times" would really mean "difficult times" or "painful times" or "disastrous times", not necessarily "times of moral wickedness".

I am attaching screenshots of the Biblehub website where you will see a lot of different translations of that verse. They demonstrate that there are different possible ways to translate the same thing.

My Lexicon disagrees.

The exact original word used was - רָ֑ע or calamity which according to my Lexicon could be exchanged with ; evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity

But this is not the only argument. Arguments about translations are sufficient generally but there is another thing which is, of course, meaningless to antichristians but which is critical to Bible interpretation. It is the essential unity of the Bible.That means that it is impossible that any part of the Bible will contradict any other. For this reason, when there is a strange reading, there is always another to clarify it.

And yet the bible contradicts itself on far too many points for us to just ignore it's discrepancies. Your "essential unity of the Bible " is just another exaggerated claim that is unfounded both within the pages of the bible and through the lens of historical accuracy.

I will do more justice to this tomorrow , no time right now.

Suffice me to say that you can scream Antichrist all you want , that label bothers me not one IOTA, because I know that your claims are all contorted nonsense , meant to cover up the gross fabrications and contradictions in your bible. Mind you the bible was put together by 'unbelievers ' , with many books left out ( wonder why ) , and the ones that were included were approved on the back of violent , malicious and angry debates. You call this HOLY ? Go and sit down my friend, you are confusing yourself.

1. You probably meant to direct your tirade to the translators of the other versions.

2. Thank you for making my argument for me.

3. Frosbel, knock yourself out.

Ihedinobi3:
1. You probably meant to direct your tirade to the translators of the other versions.

2. Thank you for making my argument for me.

3. Frosbel, knock yourself out.

Lots of translations, numerous versions, countless editions , a plethora of interpretations, thousands of denominations, total disunity, in-house bickering and fighting, constant disagreements on a supposed ONE TRUTH and yet one Ihedinobi3 is posting drivel for me to read and come to a conclusion that evil does not really mean evil. What a deluded fellow you are.

Let us just pick out another scripture where evil is used in our ongoing context ;

"Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? " - Amos 3:6

Oh dear, here goes my Lexicon again ;

raah: evil, misery, distress, injury
Transliteration: raah
Definition: evil, misery, distress, injury


Ihedinobi3 , TRUTH is not your FRIEND. All the same, I will try and find time tomorrow to debunk the rest of the nonsense you wrote earlier - not for you of course, but for others who may be taken by your cunning and crafty dealings with TRUTH.

frosbel2:
Lots of translations, numerous versions, countless editions , a plethora of interpretations, thousands of denominations, total disunity, in-house bickering and fighting, constant disagreements on a supposed ONE TRUTH and yet one Ihedinobi3 is posting drivel for me to read and come to a conclusion that evil does not really mean evil. What a deluded fellow you are.

Let us just pick out another scripture where evil is used in our ongoing context ;

"Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? " - Amos 3:6

Oh dear, here goes my Lexicon again ;

raah: evil, misery, distress, injury
Transliteration: raah
Definition: evil, misery, distress, injury


Ihedinobi3 , TRUTH is not your FRIEND. All the same, I will try and find time tomorrow to debunk the rest of the nonsense you wrote earlier - not for you of course, but for others who may be taken by your cunning and crafty dealings with TRUTH.

ihedinobi has already thrashed the issue.
You claim you are wise but you displayed gross ignorance.
Understanding the bible takes more than just reading one verse and running along with it. You read it according to context, that's how to read it and indeed any book.

solite3:
ihedinobi has already thrashed the issue.
You claim you are wise but you displayed gross ignorance.
Understanding the bible takes more than just reading one verse and running along with it. You read it according to context, that's how to read it and indeed any book.

Obviously for a BIBLE BRAIN like you he has thrashed the issue , but for THINKING and REASONING people like us , he is making a mess of his message which really is just ihedinobi3 lying again and again for his JESUS. He can confuse the SIMPLE for sure, not so with many of us here on this forum, who laugh at his attempts to misrepresent FACT.

Is this okay ?

frosbel2:
Lots of translations, numerous versions, countless editions , a plethora of interpretations, thousands of denominations, total disunity, in-house bickering and fighting, constant disagreements on a supposed ONE TRUTH and yet one Ihedinobi3 is posting drivel for me to read and come to a conclusion that evil does not really mean evil. What a deluded fellow you are.

Let us just pick out another scripture where evil is used in our ongoing context ;

"Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? " - Amos 3:6

Oh dear, here goes my Lexicon again ;

raah: evil, misery, distress, injury
Transliteration: raah
Definition: evil, misery, distress, injury


Ihedinobi3 , TRUTH is not your FRIEND. All the same, I will try and find time tomorrow to debunk the rest of the nonsense you wrote earlier - not for you of course, but for others who may be taken by your cunning and crafty dealings with TRUTH.

Thank you for making my argument for me, frosbel.

Ihedinobi3:
Thank you for making my argument for me, frosbel.

Clown of the day -

frosbel2:
Clown of the day -

Always a waste of time talking to you...if not for the fact that this is a public forum.

Ihedinobi3:
Always a waste of time talking to you...if not for the fact that this is a public forum.

My 'friend' move on , I care not one HOOT what you think.

Ihedinobi3:
Dude, you are very very bad at debates. Terrible, in fact. You're embarrassing to debate with. You're not the worst though. But it is little consolation since those worse are not very different from you.

Let me recap it for you again:

1. You reject the existence of God on the basis of the claim that there is no evidence for Him.

2. The Christian's evidence for God is the Universe you observe around you.

3. You claim that this is not evidence.

4. You are then required to explain what it is.

5. (Fill in the gap, LordReed).


**Just to avoid your hemming and hawwing, #5 is where you start stammering about exploding nothings and aliens. Get the picture now, Deadpool?

LMFAO! You really are a piece of work. Damn!

The universe was made by god is a claim not evidence, for the love of all thats good when will that piece of information slip into your indoctrinated brain?

LordReed:
LMFAO! You really are a piece of work. Damn!

The universe was made by god is a claim not evidence, for the love of all thats good when will that piece of information slip into your indoctrinated brain?

My brain appears to be fine. Yours, however, is really in question.

The universe exists. The way the Christian can explain that it does is that God made it.

So, the very existence of the Universe points to a God.

You deny that. Well then, how does the Universe exist?

Why do I even bother?

Ihedinobi3:
My brain appears to be fine. Yours, however, is really in question.

The universe exists. The way the Christian can explain that it does is that God made it.

So, the very existence of the Universe points to a God.

You deny that. Well then, how does the Universe exist?

Why do I even bother?

Your brain is rotted by stupidity so yes bother when you have evidence not claims.

LordReed:
Your brain is rotted by stupidity so yes bother when you have evidence not claims.

Don't expect him to TURN THE OTHER CHEEK as JESUS commanded, he will throw more INSULTS back -