₦airaland Forum

MuttleyLaff:
In fairness, to an untrained and/or unsuspecting eye, it is going to be hard to see where and how Jephthah vowed to send anyone to do seminary work, but it is there.

LordReed:
Here's the difference between Jephthah and Hannah, Jephthah if we are to believe he sent his daughter to become a nun is sad while Hannah is happy, that should have been reversed. Hannah, mother of an only son should have been the one sad because she was losing a man child. A man child in those days was worth his weight in gold while a girl child, well we can see how the bible treats them. What is Jephthah's daughter's name? LoL. There is absolutely no way Jephthah is mourning the loss of his daughter to seminary when girl children are not even that well regarded.

Again another difference between Hannah and Jephthah that tells us their situations where not the same. Hannah's goes to Shiloh frequently to see her son while it is never mentioned that Jephthah saw her again or even thought much of her after because instead there is a ceremony by young women. No mention is made of Jephthah's involvement in this event in stark contrast to Hannah who takes a gift to her son every year.

Another thing, about people dedicated to the god, they were never meant to be celibate. Samuel was definitely not celibate. There is no sign any of the tabernacle workers were meant not be celibate. Not the high priest, not the priests, not the Levites. So where did you get the idea that she was going into a convent that required her to be celibate? Even Deborah the prophetess was not celibate. Anna the woman in the New Testament also was not celibate. Please where did this idea come from?

Muttley you tried but no amount of editorializing can make this story palatable. Jephthah most definitely roasted his daughter as he vowed

budaatum:
Untrained to see what's not there, perhaps, and trained to see what they want you to see maybe, but what please is the benefit in being trained to be blind or to make up things in one's head and claim it is seen? Is that not the complete opposite of what Jesus taught and died for?

You failed to consider the get out clause I gave you regarding Abraham at the beginning. I guess you failed to see it as such when I accused Abraham of mistaking his old gods for Yahweh. I know the Bible does not say so, but couldn't that have happened, with the voice of the real god saving the day but the writers themselves not knowing the difference? Knowing a serpent meddled in the Garden of Eden and meddled with Jesus on the mountain, would it be so difficult to assume it would meddle with Abraham and meddle with the Bible too? Oh, I forget, not only is God Almighty, but so too are the inspired writers of the Holy Bible despite most likely not knowing their noses from their asses, and the text of the Bible we currently read being edited and reedited over and over again to suit the sensibilities of the day. God forbid that a corrupt text come off the most holy editing and printing press in heaven!

One thing no one has brought up here is the reason the more original texts do not exist anymore. They were more explicit in narrating the blood thirstiness of Yahweh, which over time made it rather distasteful so they were suppressed and new ones written with Yahweh's bloodthirst written out. If they could get away with it, the walls of Jericho would be written out too and we would not read anywhere that Yahweh required the annihilation of entire tribes if not that doing so so late in the day when many know what's written already will discredit or force a rethink of the whole of Christianity.

Jesusjnr opened a thread about atheist not following Jesus, which I've been considering responding to muttley, but haven't yet. When I do, I'd be using the socratic definition of atheism which means to not worship the gods of Athens, and which means not being brainwashed into the prevailing point of view as held by the majority, but using ones own God given senses, as Jesus did, to sieve out the truth. The cost of doing so is huge as shown by the cross atheist (according to his crucifiers) Jesus ended up on, and it may piss you off finding out you've been brainwashed all this long, but you will at least be free in the end, muttley, and I tell you the truth that being unshackled from indoctrination and being free to use ones own mind is worth dying for, as our Lord Jesus Christ has taught, and as I insist on teaching you to do too because I think you are capable of seeing having had mud spat on and rubbed in your eye, muttley!

I'd ask you to just say "amen", but know you can't help writing epistles!

MuttleyLaff:
Both of you are such a skeptic and cynic, you both had me up in stitches, laughing out loud literally, I was reading your posts and doubling up with laughter so hard I almost knocked over my glass of room temperature rouge. I'll say "amen" to liking both posts

budaatum:
And I'll call it progress. A tiny step albeit, but considering the effort in getting it, a giant leap forward indeed!

Cynicism and sceptism are healthy, muttley. If a God can be written to have cursed one to death for eating of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and place a cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth on the east side of the Garden of Eden to guard the way to the tree of life, then send its own so called only begotten son to come die on a cross to give one that eternal life which is the fruit of the tree of life, you got to wonder if those writing and telling you about it know what they are talking about or have taken up the right to be the cherubim with flaming swords for their own advantage. Serpents can be that wily!

LordReed:
Here's the difference between Jephthah and Hannah, Jephthah if we are to believe he sent his daughter to become a nun is sad while Hannah is happy, that should have been reversed. Hannah, mother of an only son should have been the one sad because she was losing a man child. A man child in those days was worth his weight in gold while a girl child, well we can see how the bible treats them. What is Jephthah's daughter's name? LoL. There is absolutely no way Jephthah is mourning the loss of his daughter to seminary when girl children are not even that well regarded.



Again another difference between Hannah and Jephthah that tells us their situations where not the same. Hannah's goes to Shiloh frequently to see her son while it is never mentioned that Jephthah saw her again or even thought much of her after because instead there is a ceremony by young women. No mention is made of Jephthah's involvement in this event in stark contrast to Hannah who takes a gift to her son every year.

Another thing, about people dedicated to the god, they were never meant to be celibate. Samuel was definitely not celibate. There is no sign any of the tabernacle workers were meant to be celibate. Not the high priest, not the priests, not the Levites. So where did you get the idea that she was going into a convent that required her to be celibate? Even Deborah the prophetess was not celibate. Anna the woman in the New Testament also was not celibate. Please where did this idea come from?

Muttley you tried but no amount of editorializing can make this story palatable. Jephthah most definitely roasted his daughter as he vowed.

frank317:
The fact is that nothing in the passages indicated that she went to a convent. Reading his comments u can see how Christians translate the bible just to make it look like a nicely written story.

All we know is that the dude made promise to God that anything that comes out of the his will be used Gods suya, the dude saw his daugther come out and both him and his daughter were said that she will be sacrificed... My muttely is trying to argue that she went to a convent, how he got that is still the eight wonder of the world. To even think he believes he is making sense is still amazing.

frank317:
The fact is that nothing in the passages indicated that she went to a convent. Reading his comments u can see how Christians translate the bible just to make it look like a nicely written story.

All we know is that the dude made promise to God that anything that comes out of the his will be used Gods suya, the dude saw his daugther come out and both him and his daughter were said that she will be sacrificed... My muttely is trying to argue that she went to a convent, how he got that is still the eight wonder of the world. To even think he believes he is making sense is still amazing.

budaatum:
wily
/ˈwʌɪli/ adjective
skilled at gaining an advantage, especially deceitfully.
"his wily opponents"

MuttleyLaff:
You do know who the only begotten son is, dont you budaatum?
You do know what the phrase "only begotten son" means, dont you budaatum?
Serpents having a willy, is that what you typed budaatum?
Well possibly, and cant rule that out. Oops what did I just type there, please do ignore. It wasnt me.
Yeah, serpents taking advantage(s), tell me about it and them

budaatum:
buda don't do play with muttley, you know that! Especially when muttley distorts what buda wrote by adding an extra 'l'! Don't you see how we've been accusing you of distortion since your first comment on this thread?

Learn first, then play!

LordReed:
Here's the difference between Jephthah and Hannah, Jephthah if we are to believe he sent his daughter to become a nun is sad while Hannah is happy, that should have been reversed. Hannah, mother of an only son should have been the one sad because she was losing a man child. A man child in those days was worth his weight in gold while a girl child, well we can see how the bible treats them. What is Jephthah's daughter's name? LoL. There is absolutely no way Jephthah is mourning the loss of his daughter to seminary when girl children are not even that well regarded.

LordReed:
Again another difference between Hannah and Jephthah that tells us their situations where not the same. Hannah's goes to Shiloh frequently to see her son while it is never mentioned that Jephthah saw her again or even thought much of her after because instead there is a ceremony by young women. No mention is made of Jephthah's involvement in this event in stark contrast to Hannah who takes a gift to her son every year

LordReed:
Another thing, about people dedicated to the god, they were never meant to be celibate. Samuel was definitely not celibate. There is no sign any of the tabernacle workers were meant to be celibate. Not the high priest, not the priests, not the Levites. So where did you get the idea that she was going into a convent that required her to be celibate? Even Deborah the prophetess was not celibate. Anna the woman in the New Testament also was not celibate. Please where did this idea come from?

LordReed:
Muttley you tried but no amount of editorializing can make this story palatable. Jephthah most definitely roasted his daughter as he vowed.

MuttleyLaff:
"Never give your children as sacrifices to the god Molech [by burning them alive].
If you do, you are dishonoring the name of your God. I am the LORD."
- Leviticus 18:21

"Do not worship the LORD your God in the way they worship their gods, for in the worship of their gods they do all the disgusting things that the LORD hates. They even sacrifice their children in the fires on their altars."
- Deuteronomy 12:31

"¹The Lord said to Moses,
²“Give the people of Israel these instructions, which apply both to native Israelites and to the foreigners living in Israel.
“If any of them offer their children as a sacrifice to Molech, they must be put to death. The people of the community must stone them to death. ³I myself will turn against them and cut them off from the community, because they have defiled my sanctuary and brought shame on my holy name by offering their children to Molech.
⁴And if the people of the community ignore those who offer their children to Molech and refuse to execute them,
⁵I myself will turn against them and their families and will cut them off from the community. This will happen to all who commit spiritual prostitution by worshiping Molech"
- Leviticus 20:1-5

"⁹When you come to the land that the LORD your God is giving you, never learn the disgusting practices of those nations.
¹⁰You must never sacrifice your sons or daughters by burning them alive, practice black magic, be a fortuneteller, witch, or sorcerer, "
- Deuteronomy 18:9-10

Here's the difference LordReed, the truth and the fact is that, again theologically speaking, as you can see from the various above bible verses reproduced and from what I already had mentioned, there is absolutely no way Jephthah will have the temerity to romanticise the thought that he could extract battle victory favour from God by offering human sacrifice

Silence cannot tell a lie. So, sometimes silence is more powerful than having to say anything. Silence, in this case, is luxury, and that's why, I am so content with it, besides, it isnt like that the silence gives strength to your argument anyway, as you like a drowning man, merely, are just clutching at straws. There was more story to tell regarding Hannah and Samuel, that is why Hannah, Samuel's mother was visiting Samuel, with a gift every year as he served the Lord, was mentioned and so as I previously mentioned would imagine Jephthah did similar or the same with his daughter too. Also LordReed, where does it, say that Hannah's descriptive should turn around to become the norm or prescriptive for Jephthah and/or others?

Get your facts right. Celibacies, are ten a penny in the bible. I know you are familiar with the names Elijah and Jeremiah, they were celibate. Your Anna, the woman in the New Testament, was celibate too. She was celibate, upon being made a widow, after only seven years of marriage. She was dedicated, as she never left the temple but worshiped there, night and day, fasting and praying.

I could say more on celibacies, even back each up with bible verses, or show you in the bible, verses of "sign of tabernacle workers meant to be celibate". They are there, black and white in the bible, but then, I dont kick someone in the teeth when they are down, and that's why I am leaving it just at that. Except you scream blue murder for it, I wont "editorialize", to show you, in the bible, where the idea comes from.

It's funny, you using the word, "editorialize", knowing that is precisely and exactly all you and the others have so far been doing on this thread.

LordReed, we can admire Jephthah, love him or hate him but, as the OP, make no mistake and recognise that Jephthah's chutzpah will shrivel contemplating a deal-breaker dead on arrival proposition of this nature, because it and Jephthah knows, God, more than once, from the word, go, and on principle, expressively has officially refused to agree to be part in human burnt offerings, child sacrifices and/or ritualistic killing of children.

It's unthinkable, just bizarre, why instigate an act, an action not suggested or set in motion by God first (i.e. God didnt tell you to do it), and especially a practice you know God categorically and officially, has said He doesnt accept, condone nor agree with.
cc CodeTemplar, bloodofthelamb, budaatum, frank317, Dantedasz, CreepyBlackpool

Dantedasz:
I would sincerely appreciate it if you stopped mentioning me please.

Dantedasz:
I would sincerely appreciate it if you stopped mentioning me please.

budaatum:
Me too, please.

MuttleyLaff:
"Never give your children as sacrifices to the god Molech [by burning them alive].
If you do, you are dishonoring the name of your God. I am the LORD."
- Leviticus 18:21

"Do not worship the LORD your God in the way they worship their gods, for in the worship of their gods they do all the disgusting things that the LORD hates. They even sacrifice their children in the fires on their altars."
- Deuteronomy 12:31

"¹The Lord said to Moses,
²“Give the people of Israel these instructions, which apply both to native Israelites and to the foreigners living in Israel.
“If any of them offer their children as a sacrifice to Molech, they must be put to death. The people of the community must stone them to death. ³I myself will turn against them and cut them off from the community, because they have defiled my sanctuary and brought shame on my holy name by offering their children to Molech.
⁴And if the people of the community ignore those who offer their children to Molech and refuse to execute them,
⁵I myself will turn against them and their families and will cut them off from the community. This will happen to all who commit spiritual prostitution by worshiping Molech"
- Leviticus 20:1-5

"⁹When you come to the land that the LORD your God is giving you, never learn the disgusting practices of those nations.
¹⁰You must never sacrifice your sons or daughters by burning them alive, practice black magic, be a fortuneteller, witch, or sorcerer, "
- Deuteronomy 18:9-10

Here's the difference LordReed, the truth and the fact is that, again theologically speaking, as you can see from the various above bible verses reproduced and from what I already had mentioned, there is absolutely no way Jephthah will have the temerity to romanticise the thought that he could extract battle victory favour from God by offering human sacrifice

Silence cannot tell a lie. So, sometimes silence is more powerful than having to say anything. Silence, in this case, is luxury, and that's why, I am so content with it, besides, it isnt like that the silence gives strength to your argument anyway, as you like a drowning man, merely, are just clutching at straws. There was more story to tell regarding Hannah and Samuel, that is why Hannah, Samuel's mother was visiting Samuel, with a gift every year as he served the Lord, was mentioned and so as I previously mentioned would imagine Jephthah did similar or the same with his daughter too. Also LordReed, where does it, say that Hannah's descriptive should turn around to become the norm or prescriptive for Jephthah and/or others?

Get your facts right. Celibacies, are ten a penny in the bible. I know you are familiar with the names Elijah and Jeremiah, they were celibate. Your Anna, the woman in the New Testament, was celibate too. She was celibate, upon being made a widow, after only seven years of marriage. She was dedicated, as she never left the temple but worshiped there, night and day, fasting and praying.

I could say more on celibacies, even back each up with bible verses, or show you in the bible, verses of "sign of tabernacle workers meant to be celibate". They are there, black and white in the bible, but then, I dont kick someone in the teeth when they are down, and that's why I am leaving it just at that. Except you scream blue murder for it, I wont "editorialize", to show you, in the bible, where the idea comes from.

It's funny, you using the word, "editorialize", knowing that is precisely and exactly all you and the others have so far been doing on this thread.

LordReed, we can admire Jephthah, love him or hate him but, as the OP, make no mistake and recognise that Jephthah's chutzpah will shrivel contemplating a deal-breaker dead on arrival proposition of this nature, because it and Jephthah knows, God, more than once, from the word, go, and on principle, expressively has officially refused to agree to be part in human burnt offerings, child sacrifices and/or ritualistic killing of children.

It's unthinkable, just bizarre, why instigate an act, an action not suggested or set in motion by God first (i.e. God didnt tell you to do it), and especially a practice you know God categorically and officially, has said He doesnt accept, condone nor agree with.
cc CodeTemplar, bloodofthelamb, budaatum, frank317, Dantedasz, CreepyBlackpool

LordReed:
You are attempting to create a straw man here, that I am in anyway arguing that Jephthah premeditated the roasting of his daughter. I argue that nowhere so its not even a point to be discussed.



Yes because they always followed the pattern in religious matters. If indeed Jephthah's daughter was dedicated to the god she woulod have been at the tabernacle.



Another straw man. I never said there are no celibates in the bible, I said "people dedicated to the god, they were never meant to be celibate" in other words there was no requirement for them to be but please by all means show us where it said the temple workers were to be celibate.

BTW a widow of course is celibate, the point was Anna was not a virgin nor was her celibacy a result of her dedication.



Nope we are going strictly by what is written in the bible meanwhile you require copious amounts of content that is not in the text plus your opinions in other to attempt what you see as a clarification.



Again I did not argue that Jephthah premeditated his daughter's death, in fact both father and daughter realised the nature of what was to come after the battle hence the lament. To Jephthah a vow was a vow, it didn't matter that it was his daughter that it affected though he seriously thought it would not. Whether the god accepted it or not is a different matter what is clear is that Jephthah did the deed.

JujuSugar:
Bro, everyone has abandoned this clown. Are you still here?

OnPointMan:
What about the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.