I like what you did there. You tried to use emotional appeal to cajole use into "wanting there to be a God". well as a matter of fact I wish there was an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and omni-benevolent God but that's just what it is; A wish.
Are you now advising me to lie to myself that such a God exist despite knowing through my life experience and the experience of others that such a god do not exist?
adoyi8: I like what you did there. You tried to use emotional appeal to cajole use into "wanting there to be a God". well as a matter of fact I wish there was an omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and omni-benevolent God but that's just what it is; A wish.
Are you now advising me to lie to myself that such a God exist despite knowing through my life experience and the experience of others that such a god do not exist?
The first nine paragraphs were basically appeal to reason, not emotional appeal.
How do you KNOW that this God you wish for isn't already a reality, but that you are yet to grasp the idea of his existence?
9inches: I want to focus not on the evidence for God’s existence, but on the benefits of belief.
If God exists, then the world didn't just evolve by chance, but by deliberate design. There's an Artist behind this incredible work of art, this big, and beautiful world.
How does knowing u didn't evolve change anything? What's the advantage of knowing we didn't evolve? What's beautiful about the world to a woman who lost her husband and son the same day in a ghastly moto accident?
If God exists, we're living in a great story, an epic like "The Lord of the Rings," with real heroes and heroic tasks. Ultimately, all the twists and turns of this epic narrative will be paid off, everything will make sense. It will even have a happy ending, not necessarily, or even likely, in our own lifetime - even Moses didn’t get into the Promised Land - but over the grand course of time in an afterlife, which exists as surely as God exists.
How does the existence of God ensure a happy ending? Does it eliminate the existence of eternal torment in fire? Even the bible said good men who don't know God will born in hell. So how does the existence of God even ensure a happy ending to a poor boy in India who believes cow is his God?
If God exists, the presence of evil, hard as it is to accept, makes sense. God allows it for a reason, namely, to preserve our free will. And God will reconcile all injustices in the end.
If evil eventually makes sense because of Gods existence, does that reduce the effect of evil? How does God allowing evil for a reason help poor humans who are experiencing pain because of evil? God reconciling evil at the end does not really change the effect of evil at the moment.
If there is no God, life is one big crapshoot. If God does exist, morality is a real, objective feature of the world. If there is no God, morality is just the rules we make up for this little game of life we play.
So? The idea of God keeps getting useless with ur points? If there is God will it stop people from making their moral rules? Are people not making up there moral rules now?
If God exists, love is the nature of an eternal reality. If there is no God, love is just a fleeting feeling, no more than a bunch of chemical and neurological interactions.
U seem to have a disconnect with what humans feel and the existence of God. U seem to be saying that there is no difference with the existence of God and the nonexistence of God. If Love is the nature of an eternal reality What difference does it make compared to when love is just a fleeting feeling?
If God exists, you are of infinite value. He knows you as a parent knows his child. He’s accessible to you. If there is no God, each of us is as insignificant as a rock on an unknown planet.
So true, if God exist, he would have been accessible to us.
If God exists, death is conquered because if there is a God there is a reality outside of space and time. If there is no God, there is nothing immortal, and all the good things in life are destroyed forever. You, and everyone you love, and everything you think matters are all consigned to oblivion. If there is no God, life is pointless. Everything we’ve done and lived for will ultimately be in vain.
If God exist, we will all know if there is a reality after space and time, better still we will be clear on what this reality looks like.
Can I prove with an absolute certainty that God exists? I can make the case that overwhelming evidence suggests that he does. But no I can’t prove that He exists with absolute certainty. That’s likely part of His plan. God deliberately doesn't give us absolute proof so that we're free to choose or not to choose to believe in Him.
U genuinely accept u cannot prove that God exist with absolute certainty, but then go ahead to know that's his plan that u shouldn't know. How in the world did u know the plan of a God u cannot prove with certainty exists.
So which way do you want to go? Be honest. Doesn't your heart at least hope that there is a good God, a transcendent validator of love and all the highest human values? Of course it does. Why would anyone not wish that life has some ultimate purpose, that good and evil are real, that there is ultimate justice, that our love for others means something?
Honestly? I wish there was a God who created the world, I trust the world would have been a much better place.
If you choose to live as if there is a God, even if you are not sure there is a God, you lose nothing and you gain everything. According to the findings of multitude of scientific studies, religious Christians and Jews are happier, live longer, and are more charitable than their less observant or secular fellow citizens.
So ur advise is that I should choose to live as if there is a God? Should I also choose to live as if there is superman? Are we playing childish wishy wishy games here or facing reality on ground?
If you have been an atheist for a while, it may be difficult for you to change your thinking, even if you find some merit in the many rational arguments for God’s existence. But you can change your behavior. You can live as if God exists, even if you hold doubts. Why not? As I said, you lose nothing and you have everything to gain. This behavioral approach is far from new. The Jews have long had a saying, “We will do, and we will understand,” which acknowledges that action often precedes understanding.
Is this what ur Christian world is all about? Living a wish?
So why not begin with an action? Why not pray the prayer of the skeptic? "God, if you exist, you must know that I'm not a believer. So, please, God, give me the gift of faith, in your time and in your way. I want to believe whatever is true. Amen.” If you say that and mean it, and give it some time, be prepared, because He will not ignore that prayer. - Peter Kreeft, philosophy professor at Boston College
Pray to who? A God u accepted u cannot prove with certainty exist? Is this some form of mental disorder or something?
How does knowing u didn't evolve change anything? What's the advantage of knowing we didn't evolve? What's beautiful about the world to a woman who lost her husband and son the same day in a ghastly moto accident?
How does the existence of God ensure a happy ending? Does it eliminate the existence of eternal torment in fire? Even the bible said good men who don't know God will born in hell. So how does the existence of God even ensure a happy ending to a poor boy in India who believes cow is his God?
If evil eventually makes sense because of Gods existence, does that reduce the effect of evil? How does God allowing evil for a reason help poor humans who are experiencing pain because of evil? God reconciling evil at the end does not really change the effect of evil at the moment.
So? The idea of God keeps getting useless with ur points? If there is God will it stop people from making their moral rules? Are people not making up there moral rules now?
U seem to have a disconnect with what humans feel and the existence of God. U seem to be saying that there is no difference with the existence of God and the nonexistence of God. If Love is the nature of an eternal reality What difference does it make compared to when love is just a fleeting feeling?
So true, if God exist, he would have been accessible to us.
If God exist, we will all know if there is a reality after space and time, better still we will be clear on what this reality looks like.
U genuinely accept u cannot prove that God exist with absolute certainty, but then go ahead to know that's his plan that u shouldn't know. How in the world did u know the plan of a God u cannot prove with certainty exists.
Honestly? I wish there was a God who created the world, I trust the world would have been a much better place.
So ur advise is that I should choose to live as if there is a God? Should I also choose to live as if there is superman? Are we playing childish wishy wishy games here or facing reality on ground?
Is this what ur Christian world is all about? Living a wish?
Pray to who? A God u accepted u cannot prove with certainty exist? Is this some form of mental disorder or something?
Hi, your concern boils down to these questions:
1. What is the purpose and meaning of life or is life meaningless?
2. Why is there suffering/evil?
3. Is morality objective/absolute?
4. Is faith rational or irrational?
I will also add,
5. Where does our desire for the "good" (happiness, justice, love, truth, compassion, tolerance, etc) come from?
Ur videos a meaningless ranting from men who obviously know nothing. They are just doing guess work there and non of them answers the questions about life.
Now break my post down and give me direct answers. U cannot ask me to pray to a God u claim u cannot prove he exists.
Like a father, known by all his children, loving and caring, present in their life because he created them. Not hiding and making u unable to prove he exist and expecting u to worship him by faith knowing u cannot prove he exists.
Like a father, known by all his children, loving and caring, present in their life because he created them. Not hiding and making u unable to prove he exist and expecting u to worship him by faith knowing u cannot prove he exists.
@bolded, Right on point! And that's the reality of every professing christian. God is actually not the one hiding, rather, it's human beings like you that shy away from knowing him... And that's different from trying to prove to people like you, with absolute certainty, that God is a reality.
"When you're seeking God, the most important to realize is you've already been found by God."
frank317: Ur videos a meaningless ranting from men who obviously know nothing. They are just doing guess work there and non of them answers the questions about life.
Now break my post down and give me direct answers. U cannot ask me to pray to a God u claim u cannot prove he exists.
Such a convenient cavalier dismissal of an opposing argument and hurling ad hominem rather than trying to refute the logic or premise of my argument. This is why it would be foolhardy to continue arguing with you in this manner. You simply cannot have argument that way.
It would have actually been easy for me to quote your post and reply you with "your argument is meaningless ranting, you obviously know nothing..." and see how the discussion goes.
9inches: @bolded, Right on point! And that's the reality of every professing christian. God is actually not the one hiding, rather, it's human beings like you that shy away from knowing him... And that's different from trying to prove to people like you, with absolute certainty, that God is a reality.
"When you're seeking God, the most important to realize is you've already been found by God."
Such a convenient cavalier dismissal of an opposing argument and hurling ad hominem rather than trying to refute the logic or premise of my argument. This is why it would be foolhardy to continue arguing with you in this manner. You simply cannot have argument that way.
It would have actually been easy for me to quote your post and reply you with "your argument is meaningless ranting, you obviously know nothing..." and see how the discussion goes.
I saw ur opening statement of this thread that was opened over a year ago and to my time to respond to every point... And the next thing u did was post some meaningless videos of some men talk absolute nonsense, what do u want me to do with them?
The best u could have done is respond to my post accordingly. Don't insult my intelligence with those videos
I saw ur opening statement of this thread that was opened over a year ago and to my time to respond to every point... And the next thing u did was post some meaningless videos of some men talk absolute nonsense, what do u want me to do with them?
The best u could have done is respond to my post accordingly. Don't insult my intelligence with those videos
What specifically would you quote from the video that is meaningless and do you know who they are before attacking their characters?
What do you want me to do with your close-mindedness and wild claim of "intelligence" when you conveniently dismiss argument of actual intelligent people as meaningless without refuting anything in their argument? You OBVIOUSLY are unable to think critically and it's blatantly telling. Such arrogance won't get you anywhere.
9inches: I'm trying to make you realize the evidence of God's existence which you are seemingly trying to ignore.
No, God didn't create only Christians.
These are ur statements below..I am quoting u
"Can I prove with an absolute certainty that God exists? I can make the case that overwhelming evidence suggests that he does. But no I can’t prove that He exists with absolute certainty. That’s likely part of His plan. God deliberately doesn't give us absolute proof so that we're free to choose or not to choose to believe in Him."
@ bold, how then again are u trying to prove to me that God exists.
If u accept that God didn't create only Christians, then he should make everyone aware of his existence, he should be a good father to all, not only Christians
9inches: What specifically would you quote from the video that is meaningless and do you know who they are before attacking their characters?
What do you want me to do with your close-mindedness and wild claim of "intelligence" when you conveniently dismiss argument of actual intelligent people as meaningless without refuting anything in their argument? You OBVIOUSLY are unable to think critically and it's blatantly telling. Such arrogance won't get you anywhere.
Is this about ur opening post or the videos? The videos didn't answer any of my questions which was a response to ur opening post
"Can I prove with an absolute certainty that God exists? I can make the case that overwhelming evidence suggests that he does. But no I can’t prove that He exists with absolute certainty. That’s likely part of His plan. God deliberately doesn't give us absolute proof so that we're free to choose or not to choose to believe in Him."
@ bold, how then again are u trying to prove to me that God exists.
If u accept that God didn't create only Christians, then he should make everyone aware of his existence, he should be a good father to all, not only Christians
I wasn't trying to prove anything; I was pointing you towards evidences of the existence of God.
@bolded, you mean like forcing people who don't want to believe to believe? If that is what you mean, then no, he would not do that because he wants us to have the freedom of choice.
Is this about ur opening post or the videos? The videos didn't answer any of my questions which was a response to ur opening post
It is about your attack on the individuals in the videos. The videos weren't meant to be direct answers to your questions. As you should have realized (if you paid enough attention), I was trying to answer your questions at the fundamentals, hence my framing them in form of numbered questions. Honestly, I modified that post to include the videos for two reasons:
1. To gauge your level of engagement in this type of discussion, moreso your level of assimilation of philosophical and abstract truths, and
2. to start you off with the idea of God - @1:40 mins in 1st video and @5:44 in 2nd video.
Beginning and End are spread within a specific Timeline. And there are many Timelines, so such questions are depressing to Humans who cant see outside the Time-Space Construct. Let me break it down.
So, for something to exist, means to the mind, that it must have a Begining and that everything that has a beginning must have an end, that is a classic Newtonian Physics Linear way of reasoning. Note that there are different timelines running simultaneously, and by that I mean the time at mars is not same as the time at Saturn etc, cos every plane and planet and star host life on different frequencies and dimensions. And their time is dependent on the dynamics of their local Star and the magneto-electric movement of the planets relative to their central star.
All TimeLines run simultaneously, sometimes our limited understanding of the Universe and Time has to do with the limited level of knowledge that both Religions and classical Science has taught us. We have to step into Quantum Field and Consciousness to ascertain such notions since the mind cant seem to operate outside a particular time zone on a planetary scale or Timeline.
The current time, which shows on clock on your computer and your phone and wrist-watches are there for you to work hard and know your allocated Time in this COnstruct is ticking. It is there to enable you fulfill your mission before you leave the body, it has nothing to do with permanence of Life and Existence. It is temporal and limited to Universes of the Game of Life, outside it, there is nothing like Time. If your question is when Life began on Earth, then you should know that the question has to be rephrased to when Earth was designed, when there was no Life as Physical Entity, cos some planets host life outside the Physicality, may be as Astral etc. So, it is convulated, but I can tell you that there is no Begining and No end, all you read about was Begining that the Humanoids, that created us, foisted on us when they arrived etc. They wrote our current history alongside the human accomplises. Though we are all Humans, humanoid etc. We are their products, they engineered us, but we are SPirit, so they are our friends, brothers, uncles etc. SOme uncles are bad, some are good, so ignore those demons and angels talk. As above, so below. We and ETs are pals, you can ffuck with them and they can fucck with you, or you do business together. I like to do business with them soon.
So your question, does not exist on the higher scheme of things, but for the Humans, it is depressing cos you are bound by Time and Space, but when you get to a higher consciousness, when you literally feel like a Spirit living a temporal moment on 3D and evolving to something greater, you will definitely know that Time is the Slave Masters clockwork to make you run around and get your Mission COmpleted before you vacate the physical existence.
Life has always been, and will always be, whether physically here or elsewhere, otherwise Spiritual on any dimension, but Life has always been and will always be. We merely change location and our space suit and move to a location that promotes our highest level of belief.
So it is safe to say, most Nigerians will become sheep in their next life time. They dont read, they like worshipping.
