Isomerizm:
That Arya's statement, humbling of Tyrion by making us suppose she knows Cersie more than his sister, are everything that's wrong with the first episode.

Watch as she begins to act all macho and dish out rejoinders (which doesn't suit her anyways) just to prove a metal through fire can become gold.

Sansa's statement you mean. The show has revealed that Tyrion was wrong to have trusted Cercei to fight on Dany's side against the Nightking. Sansa wasn't at the meeting but she correctly surmised that Cercei was up to no good. On that note, she presently knows Cercei more than Tyrion.

meforkene:


Oh..season 5 for real? No wonder there's been plenty assumed fan services. D & D should go easy abeg or just start the war by episode 3.

I'm telling you. I'm just fervently hoping that they don't mess it up. The show is too good not to end well and there are too many loose ends and too little time.

9jaBloke:




Just my opinion But I think Doreah-Khaleesi's first handmaiden deserves a mention.

Yess. She didn't have plenty of screen time.

LeSulk:


Especially Tyrion. That is near blasphemy. They should tone down this her 'smart woman narrative' a bit. Nice character development but many have been owning that game before she was born.


As for Dany, she realises she's aware of her impulsive tendencies and limitations so she surrounds herself with brilliant people. The likes of Tyrion, Varys, Ser Barristan, Friendzone and even Missandei. There is wisdom in realizing that you are limited and doing something about it.

Why didn't Tyrion see through Cersei's obvious lies?
That the Lannister forces are marching north?

Yonce:


Why didn't Tyrion see through Cersei's obvious lies?
That the Lannister forces are marching north?

My exact question too. Sansa wasn't there but she knows Cersei too well.

Sasquatch:

Send me your Email

donblazer10@gmail.com

Yonce:


Why didn't Tyrion see through Cersei's obvious lies?
That the Lannister forces are marching north?

Deep down, Tyrion knows Cercei can't be trusted. But also they are siblings, so it only makes sense that Tyrion was trying to give her a benefit of doubt.

They are family, concerning issues of the family, it's understandable why Tyrion wasn't thinking straight.

meforkene:


Like i've said, the Northern families have been very loyal to the Starks that's why they've not decided to discuss her double or triple treasonable offences to her family and the North.

Name one ?

shogz89:
sanza might have develop quite well, but Arya saying she's the smartest person she have met in season 8 meanwhile she told sanza in season 7 she was dumb. That's what most people are concerned about making it feel like the show runners want us to believe that she has been wise all along.

Methinks Arya's statement means she's now more matured.

E.g the start of S8 E1 where she shifted so that the little boy can gaze the incoming convoy of the queen just like she also did in S1 E1.

And she must have realised that family and sticking together is the most important now, the lone wolf dies, the pack survives.

You didn't expect her to badmouth Sansa to Jon do you?

Tho calling her the smartest person with seriousness in her is too far fetched.

Yonce:


Why didn't Tyrion see through Cersei's obvious lies?
That the Lannister forces are marching north?

That's the point some people have been trying to make clear here....The showrunners are just running people down to make Sansa smart.

We have all been watching since Season 1.
Does anyone know Cersei more than Tyrion? They had to sacrifice Tyrion's only strong point (his reasoning and intuition) to push up Sansa.

Like someone mentioned..hope they don't mess up the show...so many loose ends and very little time.

9jaBloke:


My exact question too. Sansa wasn't there but she knows Cersei too well.

She knew Cersei is a liar right from how she treated her when she was in King's Landing.

Gbola5:


Name one ?

1. Lannisters kill her father, brother, mother; She almost immediately married Joffrey...ended marrying Tyrion.

2. Bolton's conquered her home: She married Ramsay almost immediately...in that same home. (Please remind me how long it took LF to convince her).

And they still let her sit at the table in the great hall of Winterfell without addressing the issues.

Gbola5:


Drogon has already bonded with Dany. No dragon can have two riders at once.

"No dragon can have two riders at the same time" . Really? I never knew this or payed much attention. I thought she could ride any. Camry today, Benz tommorow.

I really need to read those books. Had the complete pdf, started reading but deleted it two pages later cos I prefer paperback to ebook.

Know anywhere in Nigeria I can get the complete set in hard copy? Last I checked ebay it was on the high side. I want that to be my last resort.

oliidell:


Sansa's statement you mean. The show has revealed that Tyrion was wrong to have trusted Cercei to fight on Dany's side against the Nightking. Sansa wasn't at the meeting but she correctly surmised that Cercei was up to no good. On that note, she presently knows Cercei more than Tyrion.

This issue emerged in season 7.

Tyrion has been the smartest of the Lannisters. One of the smartest on the show. His ability to foreshadow, plan, interprete and worm out secrets from people are obvious reasons why he's too smart to have done what he did in season 7, when he was with Cersie. A lot of people were left gobsmacked when they found out Tyrion was serious about trusting Cersie. The same Tyrion of seasons 1-6? Falling cheaply for Cersie like that?

It was apparent the show runners deliberately toned down his brightness. And now, it's evident that elevating Sansa (who to me, will always remain as dumb as ever anyways), was a probable reason.

They could have simply made her see through Cersie's mischief, without making Tyrion come off as stupid. But, of course, the moon shines brighter when the sun goes down.

meforkene:


1. Lannisters kill her father, brother, mother; She almost immediately married Joffrey...ended marrying Tyrion.

2. Bolton's conquered her home: She married Ramsay almost immediately...in that same home. (Please remind me how long it took LF to convince her).

And they still let her sit at the table in the great hall of Winterfell without addressing the issues.

She didn't even know she was to marry Tyrion.
Hell! Nobody knew.
Lannisters tricked her to thinking she was to marry Ser Loras when it was Tyrion waiting for her at the altar.
What was she supposed to do then?


She was reluctant to marry Ramsay. Littlefinger convinced her to do as that was the only way to infiltrate her own home and take it back.

Is Sansa the first woman to be sold into marriage?
Was Dany not sold?
Was Cersei not sold?
Was Magery not sold. . .multiple times?

oliidell:


Sansa's statement you mean. The show has revealed that Tyrion was wrong to have trusted Cercei to fight on Dany's side against the Nightking. Sansa wasn't at the meeting but she correctly surmised that Cercei was up to no good. On that note, she presently knows Cercei more than Tyrion.

And when last did Sansa meet with her tormentor in chief? I bet if she had met Cersei in the emotional manner (preggo) like Tyrion, she'd trust the mad queen as well.

Yonce:


She didn't even know she was to marry Tyrion.
Hell! Nobody knew.
Lannisters tricked her to thinking she was to marry Ser Loras when it was Tyrion waiting for her at the altar.
What was she supposed to do then?


She was reluctant to marry Ramsay. Littlefinger convinced her to do as that was the only way to infiltrate her own home and take it back.

Is Sansa the first woman to be sold into marriage?
Was Dany not sold?
Was Cersei not sold?
Was Magery not sold. . .multiple times?

Gbola5 asked for the treasonable offence Sansa committed that the Northerners overlooked. That's what i wrote there.
Don't care what she should have done to avert the situations.

But the other ladies you mentioned all came out of the forced marriages obviously grown and different..each with a forward plan.

Den Don start again.
1. She was already bethrothed to Joeffery. Even though she liked him at that time, it wasn't her doing. With time she gets to know the type of person Joeffery is and dislikes him. I'm sure you've forgotten the smile on her face when Joeffery renounced his betrothal to Sansa and announced one with Mageary.
She had no choice about marrying Tyrion also. Infact she was plotting with Th Tyrells to marry Lores. Tywin heard of the plot and marries her to Tyrion instead. Where does she betray the north here?

2. She eventually escapes king landing, with little finger's help and he takes her to winterfell. Along the way she learns of his plan to marry her to the Bolton's people who murdered her family. I'm sure you saw her refuse vehemently when she was told. She even went as far as saying she would starve herself to death if she was forced. And she was prepared to do it. But little finger convinced her to fight for her home not to run away. That was why she married Ramsey.

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that Sansa betrayed the north by marrying Tyrion or Ramsey, but I hope I have been able to convince you otherwise. If after reading this you still are not convinced, I implore you to watch GOT again. If after this you still insists she betrayed the north, then wow!

meforkene:


1. Lannisters kill her father, brother, mother; She almost immediately married Joffrey...ended marrying Tyrion.

2. Bolton's conquered her home: She married Ramsay almost immediately...in that same home. (Please remind me how long it took LF to convince her).

And they still let her sit at the table in the great hall of Winterfell without addressing the issues.

Aystarz:
And when last did Sansa meet with her tormentor in chief? I bet if she had met Cersei in the emotional manner (preggo) like Tyrion, she'd trust the mad queen as well.

But can Cersei really get pregnant? I thought that witch in season 5 or so told her she'll have 3 children. She's had 3 and all dead like the witch prophesied.

I feel she's just playing everybody.

meforkene:


Gbola5 asked for the treasonable offence Sansa committed that the Northerners overlooked. That's what i wrote there.
Don't care what she should have done to avert the situations.

But the other ladies you mentioned all came out of the forced marriages obviously grown and different..each with a forward plan.

How is being forced into marriage treason??
Under whose law is that?
The so called Northernmen who sat at that table to declare Jon king, where were they when those flaying monsters took over Winterfell. . .why didn't they revolt against the Boltons?

How did Cersei's marriage to Robert make her grow??
How did Magery's marriage to Joffery and Tommen make her grow??
Let's make the comparisms.

@bolded
That explains alot.

The reason most of you hate Sansa is cause she doesn't wield a sword like Arya or Brienne. Or a seductress like Magery and Cersei.
Or give off that "strong female vibe" by exhibiting attributes that is stereotypically attributed to men like fighting, power-hungry plays, scheming etc.

There was no trick. She knew she was marrying Tyrion.
Tyrion told her himself(they didn't show this conversation, just when he entered her chamber. Shae was there) S3E6

Yonce:


She didn't even know she was to marry Tyrion.
Hell! Nobody knew.
Lannisters tricked her to thinking she was to marry Ser Loras when it was Tyrion waiting for her at the altar.
What was she supposed to do then?


She was reluctant to marry Ramsay. Littlefinger convinced her to do as that was the only way to infiltrate her own home and take it back.

Is Sansa the first woman to be sold into marriage?
Was Dany not sold?
Was Cersei not sold?
Was Magery not sold. . .multiple times?

meforkene:


But can Cersei really get pregnant? I thought that witch in season 5 or so told her she'll have 3 children. She's had 3 and all dead like the witch prophesied.

I feel she's just playing everybody.

Lol. The witch's prophecy still holds true. Cersei drank wine in the Las episode, which suggests that she's lost her pregnancy. Still wondering why she'd lie to her own brothers about being pregnant though. Why would she do that?

It's better you just take the "wow" plus me don tire for the case abeg.

If marrying your family's/faithful's worst and most recent enemies is not betrayal then i don't know what is. In the medieval times no one really cares the step by step occurrences that bring about the betrayal. It is what it is. The Ramsay own is even more unacceptable...a conquerer of the home plus being reluctant in showing any signs of revolt.

For instance, Jon did the most possible humane thing for the wildlings and some brothers of the NW killed him. Do you think they were wrong for killing him?

Endy10:
Den Don start again.
1. She was already bethrothed to Joeffery. Even though she liked him at that time, it wasn't her doing. With time she gets to know the type of person Joeffery is and dislikes him. I'm sure you've forgotten the smile on her face when Joeffery renounced his betrothal to Sansa and announced one with Mageary.
She had no choice about marrying Tyrion also. Infact she was plotting with Th Tyrells to marry Lores. Tywin heard of the plot and marries her to Tyrion instead. Where does she betray the north here?

2. She eventually escapes king landing, with little finger's help and he takes her to winterfell. Along the way she learns of his plan to marry her to the Bolton's people who murdered her family. I'm sure you saw her refuse vehemently when she was told. She even went as far as saying she would starve herself to death if she was forced. And she was prepared to do it. But little finger convinced her to fight for her home not to run away. That was why she married Ramsey.

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that Sansa betrayed the north by marrying Tyrion or Ramsey, but I hope I have been able to convince you otherwise. If after reading this you still are not convinced, I implore you to watch GOT again. If after this you still insists she betrayed the north, then wow!

So Sansa came out of her ordeals a baby with a backward plan?
Everything Sansa passed through made her who she is now, and who she is now is a way smarter version of the Sansa of before. Please how does that not define growth.

The first thing she did after fleeing from Ramsey and going to Jon was plot how to take their home back. How is that not a forward plan?

I dare say that every decision Sansa has taken since her escape from Ramsey has been the correct one...Every decision. Be it telling Jon that he shouldn't bother about Rickon, or hiding the fact she had the army of the veil waiting.

I know we can sometimes get invested in these characters such that we tend to love some and hate some. Don't let your hatred for a character close your eyes to their development. If you do, you miss so many things the show is trying to tell you

meforkene:


Gbola5 asked for the treasonable offence Sansa committed that the Northerners overlooked. That's what i wrote there.
Don't care what she should have done to avert the situations.

But the other ladies you mentioned all came out of the forced marriages obviously grown and different..each with a forward plan.

Yes they were wrong for killing Jon. The decision Jon took was hard, but it was 100 percent correct. I you still argue this one then I'll know I'm wasting my time arguing with you.
Jon saw the army of the dead. The widlings were potential army for the night king. He knew if all the widlings fell, with their giants and mammoths, the seven kingdom was doomed.

The nights watch over time forgot the real reason the wall was built. They forgot the real fight was with the white walkers. Even if they couldn't accept the fact that the people they were fighting now lived amongst them, ask yourself this: Is it not treason to go against your Lord commander, talk more of killing him? Now there is a genuine treason for you.

And please don't tell me it's not treason, please. Lord Commander Mormont was killed (back stabbed) because he defended an incestuous willing (Craster) was that not treason too?

meforkene:
It's better you just take the "wow" plus me don tire for the case abeg.

If marrying your family's/faithful's worst and most recent enemies is not betrayal then i don't know what is. In the medieval times no one really cares the step by step occurrences that bring about the betrayal. It is what it is. The Ramsay own is even more unacceptable...a conquerer of the home plus being reluctant in showing any signs of revolt.

For instance, Jon did the most possible humane thing for the wildlings and some brothers of the NW killed him. Do you think they were wrong for killing him?

Yonce:



How is being forced into marriage treason??
Under whose law is that?
The so called Northernmen who sat at that table to declare Jon king, where were they when those flaying monsters took over Winterfell. . .why didn't they revolt against the Boltons?

How did Cersei's marriage to Robert make her grow??
How did Magery's marriage to Joffery and Tommen make her grow??
Let's make the comparisms.

@bolded
That explains alot.

The reason most of you hate Sansa is cause she doesn't wield a sword like Arya or Brienne. Or a seductress like Magery and Cersei.
Or give off that "strong female vibe" by exhibiting attributes that is stereotypically attributed to men like fighting, power-hungry plays, scheming etc.

There's no hate biko. See the people you mentioned Arya, Brienne, Cersei, Margery and many others have different "je ne sais quoi" or attributes about them....that's the show. Any need attaching importance to her?

If i want to watch a young princess for fun....i'll go watch Little Mermaid or so.

oliidell:


Sansa's statement you mean. The show has revealed that Tyrion was wrong to have trusted Cercei to fight on Dany's side against the Nightking. Sansa wasn't at the meeting but she correctly surmised that Cercei was up to no good. On that note, she presently knows Cercei more than Tyrion.

She didn't correctly state that Cercei won't sent the Lannisters army.
don't forget the 3 eyed raven Bran is there and knows exactly at all times what's happening in the 7 kingdoms.

Bran must have told her that the Lannisters army are not coming courtesy of queen Cercei

nymphomaniac:
After all the arguments, you people skipped one very important one. How will Jon react to what samwel tarly told him? Will he become king in the north? Will he continue to abdicate? Will he tell other northerners?

How will dany take it? Me I think she will take it easy with him and say it doesnt matter as she will rule with him by her side...Jon will become love blind and do nothing about his heritage.

Cc yonce, aryasand, iamJ (Mr Reddit) endy, etc..etc..

Arindin Jon that is already in love. Lol! He'll probably abdicate. Dude has no plan to become anything. He just wants to defend mankind and nack the woman he loves yet they keep making him their Leader anyhow.

Yonce:


She didn't even know she was to marry Tyrion.
Hell! Nobody knew.
Lannisters tricked her to thinking she was to marry Ser Loras when it was Tyrion waiting for her at the altar.
What was she supposed to do then?


She was reluctant to marry Ramsay. Littlefinger convinced her to do as that was the only way to infiltrate her own home and take it back.

Is Sansa the first woman to be sold into marriage?
Was Dany not sold?
Was Cersei not sold?
Was Magery not sold. . .multiple times?

Yonce, some people will never like Sansa, no matter how much you try to rationalize. The poor girl was left totally defenceless in the midst of murderers and liars. With Ned, Cat & Robb all dead, she was scared s**less, didn't know who to trust and was just doing whatever she was told to stay alive.

oliidell:


Sansa's statement you mean. The show has revealed that Tyrion was wrong to have trusted Cercei to fight on Dany's side against the Nightking. Sansa wasn't at the meeting but she correctly surmised that Cercei was up to no good. On that note, she presently knows Cercei more than Tyrion.

Pls & pls I beg you in the name of the old, new & fairly-used gods, let's stop. Let's just stop.

Sansa can never know Cersei more than Tyrion, presently, pastly or futuristically. You guys are beginning to give that girl too much credit and it's annoying.

Sansa's base for concluding that Cersie won't play ball is ONLY based on her PAST HISTORY with Cersie. She knows Cersei is a cold hearted bitch and that's all. Tyrion, however, knows Cersei on a more deeper level. Asides that, he knows that even the devil can have something to live for . Are we also forgetting the fact that he had a private meeting with Cersei we are yet to get a glimpse of?

Since we all want to analyze, oya na.

Sansa's statement to Tyrion was made out of nothing but assumption - which luckily for her dumb @ss, turned out correct. It was a quick, impulsive conclusion. Sansa never made that conclusion from a strategic or logical point of view. It was a sharp sharp conclusion made from nothing but past emotion. Is that how you want to win the war, ehh madam Lady of Winterfell?

So because Cersei is a cold-hearted bittch, is that enough reason to just assume and conclude Cersei will rather just sit back and not send her troops to support a war that will keep her alive? Only an illogical person will just assume that a bad and evil person will always remain evil in every situation. This difference in reasoning is why Tyrion is the Queen's hand while Sansa will soon become the Queen's burnt offering, or even better, the Night King's next Archimedes spiral if she doesn't tone-down this so-called new "smartness" she picked on the ground.

So Sansa now sees the future? She sat down and was like "nah nah, that evil, cold b1tch Cersie will rather remain in King's Landing and fight the white-walkers herself without needing our help even though we have two dragons?".

Once again, clear proof that the show writers are beginning to intervene. If no, then what other reason does Sansa have for believing Cersei will not join them? She should tell us. Afterall, she's the Lady of Winterfell and the fate of the lives of multitudes will boil down in part to her decision making. Sansa should tell us, maybe after that, we'll start giving her the full respect she deserves. Till then, she should swerve and the producers too, should behave.

And again, Tyrion is not God. He's bound to make mistakes just like every normal human being. Even almighty Night King that is not human made a costly mistake that could have effectively won him the War when he miscalculated the physics & flight trajectory of his second arrow that could have brought down drogon + Dany in season 7 when she rode to save Johnny boy & co from the white walkers.

A simple extrapolation of Newton's second law of motion keeping in mind that the flight of an arrow is parabolic, hence his initial throw-velocity V(¢×) will have to account for air drag (¶ ) & acceleration due to gravity (g) , could have won him the war. But I don't see anybody mocking him for that.

In Tyrion's case, however, it was CLEARLY implied that he had a change of heart after that private meeting with Cersie. A meeting we are yet to see. Something tells me an apology from Sansa, ya'll, or the producers is not too far off. Somebody must apologise to Tyrion, period. Let's watch & see.

I apologise for the long epistle though. It's a curse I carry.

And for God's sake, Arya. What was she thinking when she called Sansa the smartest person she's ever met. And you agree? Lmao..

That girl is two more statements away from entering the dumb list. A girl has no name, agreed!! A girl now has no brain?? Wtf!!

As for the producers, I swear in the name of old, new & fairly-used gods, if you fffuck this show up for me I will stop watching Game of thrones immidiately after the last episode...

Ksslib:

"No dragon can have two riders at the same time" . Really? I never knew this or payed much attention. I thought she could ride any. Camry today, Benz tommorow.

I really need to read those books. Had the complete pdf, started reading but deleted it two pages later cos I prefer paperback to ebook.

Know anywhere in Nigeria I can get the complete set in hard copy? Last I checked ebay it was on the high side. I want that to be my last resort.

Lol @ Camry today, Benz tomorrow

RobbStark:



She didn't correctly state that Cercei won't sent the Lannisters army.
don't forget the 3 eyed raven Bran is there and knows exactly at all times what's happening in the 7 kingdoms.

Bran must have told her that the Lannisters army are not coming courtesy of queen Cercei

& what makes you so certain? It's a good point but if it was part of the plot, the show would have given us a glimpse or a hint in that direction. Guys cut Sansa some slack and accept her character development. We didn't write the story.