Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / NewStats: 3,153,070 members, 7,818,190 topics. Date: Sunday, 05 May 2024 at 09:55 AM |
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness (67188 Views)
New Changes For Jehovah's Witness: Women Can Wear Trousers, Men Must Not Wear.. / Commercial Driver Prays As A Muslim, Christian And Traditionalist Before A Trip / Is It Right To Be A Christian And Join Secret Society?; Pastor Shares Photos (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) ... (12) (13) (14) (15) (16) (17) (18) ... (77) (Reply) (Go Down)
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by alBHAGDADI: 8:18pm On May 21, 2019 |
Malvisguy212 Welcome |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 8:42pm On May 21, 2019 |
Barristter07:I honestly don't know how you convince yourselves of your doctrines. Let's break it down. YOUR DOCTRINES: 1. Being Born Again is NOT Being Saved I wish you could prove it with the Scriptures. All the Scriptures I've quoted you've not seen...I understand because doctrines especially the faulty ones take more than knowledge to break. Let me help you by this Scripture: 1Pet 1:18-23: "For as much as you know that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ , as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who truly was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. Seeing you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit to unfeigned love of the brothers, see that you love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which lives and stays for ever." 1. Who are these Peter was refering to, the 144,000? 2. Is this not also refering to salvation? 2. Let's look at John3:8 again: John 3:8: "The wind blows where it wants, and you hear the sound thereof, but can not tell from where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." Let me rephrase so that you can understand: The wind blows where it wants And you hear the sound of the wind But you cannot tell where it's coming from or going to So is everyone born of the spirit. We have two main things here 1. The Subject (Wind) 2. The Observer (You) #So, in this case, is the Person Born of the Spirit the Subject or the Observer ? ##Is God the observer? ###Who is the observer? Once you truthfully answer these questions, you'll see that your interpretation is very skewed! By the way, there were several questions you refused to answer |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by malvisguy212: 8:51pm On May 21, 2019 |
alBHAGDADI:honestly bro, you and the op have enough time to engaged this JW friends , they Will argue till this thread reach 50 pages. your welcome bro. |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by OkCornel(m): 8:55pm On May 21, 2019 |
alBHAGDADI: Mr accuser! I am joining ranks with nobody. I started a discussion with shadeyinka and you instructed him or her on this thread and another one not to interact with me... Now you are here claiming I've joined rank with JW... Guy you are mentally ill. Go and get yourself treated... Pathetic liar... We are still awaiting your evidence that verifies your empty claims that I am a satanist |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 8:56pm On May 21, 2019 |
alBHAGDADI:that is their way. |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 9:03pm On May 21, 2019 |
OkCornel:Hey Bro! No problem,! I guess you both carried the hurt and resentment of another thread into this one. I've told him to be a little more gentle with you. Shalom |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by OkCornel(m): 9:08pm On May 21, 2019 |
shadeyinka: Alright then. Cheers... and thanks for understanding |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by alBHAGDADI: 9:09pm On May 21, 2019 |
malvisguy212: I'll soon exit the thread because I've seen their foundation on salvation to be wrong. That alone proves that many of what they believe is wrong. Once a group gets their doctrine of salvation wrong, it will be a waste of time debating them on other subjects. Shadeyinka, Solite3 take note. This guys are on the wrong on salvation, so it's a waste of time debating anything else with them. Their foundation is faulty. Debating their brainwashed heads will only see this thread reach over 50 pages. While we depend on Jesus in the boat to save us from the storm of the sea, they claim they don't need Jesus and that they can save themselves from the storm of the sea. Clearly we are not in the same boat. Jesus is in our boat where he's needed, not in theirs where he's not needed. |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 9:14pm On May 21, 2019 |
OkCornel:If Adam and Eve had eaten of The Tree of Life in their fallen state, their fate would have been irrevocably sealed for eternity. It simply means as satan is (lives forever spiritually) so they would be (living forever Spiritually). Death offers an opportunity for a spiritual rebirth (starting on a clean slate,) through the washing of the Blood of the LAMB of God. As per would they have lived physically forever? I don't know! But there is nothing saying they couldn't live Physically forever (or at least till judgement day)! |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 9:16pm On May 21, 2019 |
alBHAGDADI:I've responded to you. I've been busy today |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 9:29pm On May 21, 2019 |
Barristter07:Here was your post. I showed you a reference from the book of Daniel and your response was Barristter07: On the basis of the bolded I asked my question! See attached for reference!
|
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 9:34pm On May 21, 2019 |
Barristter07: You see how you have side-stepped the Question again. Correlate your answer above vwith the Question I asked and see if it fits.
|
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by malvisguy212: 9:48pm On May 21, 2019 |
alBHAGDADI:when you read there Bible , Lord (kurios) are translated as Jehovah, but the word Lord is use for Jesus. so in there Bible when it's comes to Jesus, they are very cartful to use the word Lord for Jesus. what must I do to be save ? if your answer point to SELF ,it mean you are standing on a sanding ground . but if your answer point to the CROSS ( JESUS) it mean you are standing on a ROCKY GROUND. thank you my brother, I enjoy your contributions on this atheistic forum . |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 9:53pm On May 21, 2019 |
alBHAGDADI: Liar, Junk, Nonsense and sort are abuses and insult to a fellow Bible student like you who is expressing himself based of what convinced him! If you believe some doctrines and another person believes otherwise, it is insulting to start calling what the other person believe 'JUNK' Both of you have taken the pains to read, study, meditate and prayerfully come to a conclusion before believing what you're saying right now. Even God will himself will never discourage someone who have spent his time WISELY by adding his word as part of daily routine. If you open your mouth and speak so irrespective of a person who gives time for God's word, how will you speak to someone who don't care at all about it? That is why the prophecy about Jesus said 'he will not discourage those who makes effort to consider God's word' Matthew 12:20 It is Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes and other so called Rabbis in the first centuries who look down on people insulting them if such individuals finds it hard to swallow what they teaches. Christians will APPRECIATE your effort of trying to know about God, and if you insist on what you formerly believe they will respectfully walk away in peace without saying any hurtful words! That is why you have failed woefully to maintain the calmness when discussing with people who holds opinions contrary to yours! 1Peter 3:15 Most people will just keep quiet and after you've spoken whatever comes to your mouth they will walk away without saying a word in response. Is that a good sign showing repentant attitudes? But when someone speaks to prove he already have something in his mind, that is the opportunity to present what is stronger and more beneficial! I just hope you think over this, remember how i show appreciation for the effort you make to have studied the Bible! Of course all what you were saying is simply what the churches generally assume but they can't make any meaningful beneficial thing out of it, so Kumuyi , Adeboye , Oyedepo and others kept building religious centers yet their followers aren't united in line of thought! Most of JWs have been to churches before coming to study with the GB so there is nothing new in what you're saying, it is just the normal pushing ideas here and there to see if one can get supporters against those WHO CLAIMS TO KNOW IT ALL [Jehovah's Witnesses] In those days we decides to keep arguing against them but our thoughts aren't matching at all and we all know it! 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by malvisguy212: 10:00pm On May 21, 2019 |
In Zechariah 12 JEHOVAH is speaking (verses 1 and 4). In verse 10 JEHOVAH'S says, "They shall look upon ME whom they have pierced." This can refer to no one other than Jesus Christ (compare John 19:37 and Revelation 1:7). |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 10:15pm On May 21, 2019 |
I wish you correlate the questions asked and what you presented as answers to the questions: Here is an extract: shadeyinka: Now, below are your answers to the questions: Barristter07: You will note that I didn't ask about the history of Saul nor the definition of a spirit. Watch your definition of spirit as breath of life and check if it is totally defining what a spirit is Please substitute "breath of life" anytime you see spirit [b]Ps 104:4: "Who makes his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:" Heb 1:7: "And of the angels he said, Who makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire." Please check the Scripture below and answer the following question Gen 2:7: "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." If God breath into the nose of man and man became a living soul, did God also breath into the noses of animals? The Quote below is Food for thought: not to be answered! Could it be that man was created as a "soul" Spiritually dead? By the term: Spirit is Breath of life ! Gen 2:7 1. Do you mean that the Spirit of man is the breathing of man? 2. What is the difference between a spirit and soul and body of man? |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 10:22pm On May 21, 2019 |
malvisguy212:Its ok Sir, you're doing fine in quoting the Bible to support what you believe. Jesus said 'by their fruit' Matthew 7:15-20 Paul listed the fruit of the spirit and that of the flesh. Galatians 5:19-23 Please try to exhibit the fruit that is beneficial and you need not worry about arguments because honesthearted and sincere individuals will SEE the WORKS of your FAITH and come closer to you! James 2:26 As for Jehovah's Witnesses, their good works have earned them the trust of intellectuals all around the globe unless people who thinks too much of themselves that will speak evil of that organization. But humble people will tell you 'Jehovah's Witnesses have got the world's NICEST people in their group!' So please try to earn such virtuous repute and leave the rest in the hands of sincere observers! As regards Zachariah's prophecy, different translations of the Bible rendered verse 10 of Chapter 12 differently!
|
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 10:29pm On May 21, 2019 |
Look at my writeup again then, I'll ask you questions based on the Scripture presented and not on what you have memorized shadeyinka:1. Who is Rev 21:24-27; 22:3-4 above refering to? 2. Who is Rev 21:2-5: above refering to? TATIME: I am not asking you to regurgitate the memory verses you have crammed in your head. I have showed you from the Scriptures that believers in every nation have the name of Jehovah on their heads. Just look deeply into the word of God and answer truthfully! |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by malvisguy212: 10:31pm On May 21, 2019 |
Maximus69:very lame excuse. okay here is this one In Exodus 3:14-15 we learn that JEHOVAH is the great "I AM." According to the Gospel of John, Who is the great "I AM" ? |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 10:45pm On May 21, 2019 |
Janosky:You cannot bring yourself to accept that Rom 8:28-30: "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." The Failure of man is still working out for the good of God's own The tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was deliberately planted by God as a means of selection of the Sheep from the Goats. All humans were created with free will to choose whether to remain dependent on Him or choose total independence from Him. Freewill is nothing if it is constrained from independent actions. Did God know that the earth would be subject to sin, pain, death and depreciation as a result if man fail "the exam"? YES! But did God know that out of the chaos, many will come out bright like the sun? YES! That was why the Lamb of God was prepared from the foundation of the world Rev 13:8: "And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 10:48pm On May 21, 2019 |
alBHAGDADI:I think you should ignore anyone who distracts from your purpose of preaching, teaching and edification. Galataians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. But the curse is not from us. |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 10:53pm On May 21, 2019 |
alBHAGDADI:You speak the truth. But just a little while, peradventure one or more will look a little more closely at the word of truth. It's impossible by force of reasoning to convince a JWs witness. Theirs is a strong chain and bound that only the grace of Christ can break free. Most of them will die only to know that they have believed lies all their lives. Cc: malvisguy212: |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 10:59pm On May 21, 2019 |
malvisguy212:Highly inconsistent both in Bible translation and interpretation. Even when they read things in black and white, they don't see. They see only what the organisation has told them to believe You will note how they will side-stepped this verse. |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by malvisguy212: 11:13pm On May 21, 2019 |
shadeyinka:that why I respect a Christian brother call Emasu'n . this guy has been debating with JW friends for long , he is to patients with them. |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 11:19pm On May 21, 2019 |
malvisguy212:For the sake of one or two that the Lord will save...it is worth it. I just pulled out some things about the text you quoted. I'll copy you when I'm done. |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by malvisguy212: 11:25pm On May 21, 2019 |
shadeyinka:o yes, you are right . in this perilous time, people need to be saved. thank you 1 Like |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 11:58pm On May 21, 2019 |
i will start posting jw beliefs and how it contradicts the bible. |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 11:59pm On May 21, 2019 |
its time to expose jehovah witness organisation for who they are |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 12:01am On May 22, 2019 |
do you know that the foundation of Jehovah witness organisation is tied to fremason, a satanic cult? |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 12:03am On May 22, 2019 |
Please let's get the correct translation that is not misleading sincere believers. I call out: @Maximus69 , Janosky , TATIME , Barristter07 , Cc: solite3 , alBHAGDADI, malvisguy212 , Please note the Differences in translation. Like someone is deliberately mistranslating a verse to say something else. JEHOVAH'S WITNESS TRANSLATION Zech 12:9-11: And in that day I will be certain to annihilate all the nations that come against Jerusalem.l 10 “I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the spirit of favor and supplication, and they will look to the one whom they pierced,m and they will wail over him as they would wail over an only son; and they will grieve bitterly over him as they would grieve over a firstborn son. 11 In that day the wailing in Jerusalem will be great, like the wailing at Ha·dad·rimʹmon in the Plain of Me·gidʹdo. NEW KING JAMES TRANSLATION Zech 12:9-11: "And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour on the house of David, and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look on me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon." Are these two translations the same? Look at the subtle differences: NWT: look to the one would refer to Christ as Different from Jehovah NKJV: look on me would refer to Jehovah as the same as Christ I pulled out the interlinear Hebrew-English literal Translations https://biblehub.com/interlinear/zechariah/12.htm Then I pulled out the occurrence usage of the word en-lay in the bible. https://biblehub.com/hebrew/elai_413.htm The key word is en-lay appears 446 times (directly not in its variant form) in the old testament. It is too long to fit a screenshot hence I've done just one page. The link is provided above for those interested. En-lay has been translated as About To me Towards me Then To And to Then For Against Can To us Then And do In I couldn't do the frequency of each word cause my hardcopy Strong Dictionary is not around but you can just look at the link provided. Of the 446 times the word en-lay occurs in the Hebrew, NOT ONCE was it translated as to the one ( or it's variant) Please look at the Evidence provided. Even though you are no Hebrew expert but is this not important enough to look at AGAIN? Suppose Jehovah is the Christ, what other things have been hidden due to deliberate misinformation? If you feel that your translation is perfect, let's hear your views. 1 Like
|
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(m): 12:13am On May 22, 2019 |
malvisguy212:God is our help! I wish I could be more patient to them but I'm not. It takes a measure of self control when you note that ordinary English is not understood when it comes to the Scriptures if it doesn't line up with what their organisation teaches. |
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 1:03am On May 22, 2019 |
shadeyinka:my brother, new world translation where do I even start from? The new world translation is a heavily manipulated book not a bible based on the heresy of wescott translation. it is heavily mutilated and crafted to suit the belief of the witness organisation. they remove or change any verse that point Our Lord Jesus as God, strip him of his glory and made him a creature remove any allusion to the holy Spirit as a person and made him to be just a force. take note that "The Force" is an important term in the ocult society. take your time and research through the history of Jehovah witness and you will be shocked at your findings. the people called Jehovah witness are like sheep only a selected few in the innermost circle truly know the aim of the society just as the latter day saint,the roman catholic church and other antichristian organisation out there. look at the name of their book,new world translation which is also synonymous with the new world order in which a new world system of a totalitarian world government takes over in order to establish peace and safety on earth. |
(1) (2) (3) ... (12) (13) (14) (15) (16) (17) (18) ... (77) (Reply)
Osole Owo Aye (money Ritual To See Money To Live Life) / Apostle Suleman Reacts To Snapchat Photos With Stephanie Oboto / T.B Joshua: Pastor Adeboye's Condolence Letter To Evelyn Joshua
(Go Up)
Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 129 |