TATIME:
Your point of emphasis in the questions raised is all about being born again.
So if Jesus' use of the term BORN AGAIN is not to be taken literally, i don't expect all readers of the Bible to take the term SEE literally as well, not even to talk of those who STUDY the Bible and thoroughly meditated on what they find in God's word!
Jesus loves talking to sincere people in clear times, but when antagonists and critics are mixed up with his humble listeners Jesus will start teaching by symbolic means. Matthew 13:10
The symbols are wisely arranged to summarised what could cost him a lengthy,all day talk. After his symbolic presentations humble individuals will approach him privately to know the meaning of the symbols and Jesus will kindly explain everything in clear terms! Matthew 13:36-43
Jesus is the WORD of God. John 1:1
He knew very well that after his departure the scriptures will be available to both honesthearted individuals and crooked ones, so most of what is written as Jesus[Jehovah's representative] revealed to Bible writers from Genesis to Revelations is full of symbols. That is why Daniel was told "the WISE will understand but the WICKED won't" Daniel 12:10
Of course ONLY those born of water[water baptism] and by spirit[anointed with holy spirit] will go and rule with Jesus in heaven. But the rest of mankind who aren't born again will live forever in Paradise on earth! Psalms 37:9-11,29
Jesus promised that thief Paradise, surely that man can't go to heaven because he neither got baptised by water nor spirit! John 3:5
So he will be resurrected here on earth during Christ's millennial reigh!
Regarding those who will inherit everlasting life on earth, Jesus told his prospective born again brothers that these ones are of ANOTHER fold but they will all together live by the same principles emanating from their one and only Master[Jesus] John 10:16
Today, the gathering of Jesus' born again brothers of 144,000 Christians has reached it's climax, that is why most of his true followers today aren't born again because this is the time to gather the OTHER SHEEP fold that will inherit the earth! Matthew 5:3 compared to 5:5

shadeyinka:

Do you think God acted in wisdom by putting the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the midst of the garden? What was the purpose of that tree?

Remember,

Gen 1:12:
"And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good."

Barristter07:


That question contradicts John 3:8 , You don't direct the wind!!! Or say I want wind to come over here .



@highlight. Eternal life is not the issue here . Why? Been born again is becoming heirs with Jesus in heaven .

But Some righteous people will live forever on Earth - Psalm 37:29 . this hope every Jew regard as Paradise. This same hope Jesus held out to the theif at his side .

They also have eternal life as evidenced by " Living forever "



Either sealed or come upon, They Have the holy spirit! . This highlight my point that having holy spirit in whatever form doesn't justify that a person is born again.

Barristter07:


What stop you from identifying the personality you think it represent ?


The context says Head of Gold , not a reference to any beast. I repeat, The reference to beasts to represent Kingdom of the world is Scriptural

Have you forgotten the all this kingdoms were portrayed as a Beast in the same Daniel ?



Rev 21:8 This means the second death.

Well explained. Death!

That again brings back the point about one cannot be dead and alive same time. Luke 24:5

shadeyinka:


First, what is death?
Death simply means a DISCONNECTION or a SEPARATION!
A person physically dies when his soul and spirit is disconnected or Separated from his body.

The bible records three kinds of death
1. Physical Death:
This is the Disconnection or Separation of the Soul and Spirit from the Body
Eccl 9:4:
"For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion."
Gen 5:5:
"And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died."

2. Spiritual Death:
This is the Disconnection or Separation of the Spirit of God from a person.
Gen 2:17:
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

Did Adam and Eve die the day they eat of the tree?
Rom 8:6:
"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace."

To be carnally minded is to be Separated from the Spirit of God
Rom 6:23: "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

The wages of sin is Disconnection from God

Rom 8:6: "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace."

To be carnally minded is Disconnection from God

3. Second Death:
Eternal Disconnection or Separation of a person totally from God after resurrection of the dead. Such a person is thrown into the Lake of fire.

Rev 20:14: "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

Rev 20:15: "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Now that I have explained the three kinds of death found in the scriptures, I will answer your questions.


You said man has a beginning but NO end.
Please can you correlate that to what the Bible says at Proverbs 14:12,16:25
The fact that man has a beginning is trivial. We can trace the origin on man to Adam and Eve.

Prov 14:12:
"There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."

The Question is which of the kinds of death?
a. It cannot be physical death because even the saints die just like the sinners.
b. It could be Spiritual death or second death. Both fit into the text.

However, in context, death here means destruction, evil, disaster. That is why the bible says
Prov 3:5-7:
"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil."

Man exist forever:
a. The Righteous in paradise forever

John 14:16: "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever ;".

b. The Wicked in Lake of fire forever

Mat 25:46: "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

2Ths 1:9: "Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"

Jud 1:6: "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

Dan 12:2: "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."


Your second question:

God also told Adam that if he eat from the forbidden fruit he will die! Genesis 2:16-17


Spiritual Death...for they didn't die physically the day they eat of the tree.

Gen 2:17:
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

Your third Question
Paul also said the wages of sin is death! Romans 6:23

Spiritual Death!

For even the saints die physically!

Your Fourth Question:

At Ecclesiastes 3:19-20 God's word said death of man and beast is the same because both will seize to exist at death.


Physical Death.

The physical death of humans and animals is completely alike.

Your Fifth Question:

So now that Adam died, can we say he has NO end?
Adam died physically just like Abraham died physically.

But the bible says:

Mar 12:26-27:
"And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err."

Dead people were given white robes to put on after they protested their murder by wicked men

Rev 6:10-11
: "And they cried with a loud voice , saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were , should be fulfilled."

I believe I've answered your questions

OkCornel:
Interesting thread...

Learning stuffs from both sides of the divide... though there are still questions begging for answers from either side...

Barristter07:


Have you explained the reference to " For now I KNOW " ?


Serves as the name implies that Only God has the sole right to decide what is good and evil .

Just as tree of life reminds them that only God has the right to give life.

shadeyinka:


First, what is death?
Death simply means a DISCONNECTION or a SEPARATION!
A person physically dies when his soul and spirit is disconnected or Separated from his body.

The bible records three kinds of death
1. Physical Death:
This is the Disconnection or Separation of the Soul and Spirit from the Body
Eccl 9:4:
"For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion."
Gen 5:5:
"And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died."

2. Spiritual Death:
This is the Disconnection or Separation of the Spirit of God from a person.
Gen 2:17:
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

Did Adam and Eve die the day they eat of the tree?
Rom 8:6:
"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace."

To be carnally minded is to be Separated from the Spirit of God
Rom 6:23: "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

The wages of sin is Disconnection from God

Rom 8:6: "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace."

To be carnally minded is Disconnection from God

3. Second Death:
Eternal Disconnection or Separation of a person totally from God after resurrection of the dead. Such a person is thrown into the Lake of fire.

Rev 20:14: "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

Rev 20:15: "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Now that I have explained the three kinds of death found in the scriptures, I will answer your questions.


You said man has a beginning but NO end.
Please can you correlate that to what the Bible says at Proverbs 14:12,16:25
The fact that man has a beginning is trivial. We can trace the origin on man to Adam and Eve.

Prov 14:12:
"There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."

The Question is which of the kinds of death?
a. It cannot be physical death because even the saints die just like the sinners.
b. It could be Spiritual death or second death. Both fit into the text.

However, in context, death here means destruction, evil, disaster. That is why the bible says
Prov 3:5-7:
"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil."

Man exist forever:
a. The Righteous in paradise forever

John 14:16: "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever ;".

b. The Wicked in Lake of fire forever

Mat 25:46: "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

2Ths 1:9: "Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"

Jud 1:6: "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

Dan 12:2: "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."


Your second question:

God also told Adam that if he eat from the forbidden fruit he will die! Genesis 2:16-17


Spiritual Death...for they didn't die physically the day they eat of the tree.

Gen 2:17:
"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

Your third Question
Paul also said the wages of sin is death! Romans 6:23

Spiritual Death!

For even the saints die physically!

Your Fourth Question:

At Ecclesiastes 3:19-20 God's word said death of man and beast is the same because both will seize to exist at death.


Physical Death.

The physical death of humans and animals is completely alike.

Your Fifth Question:

So now that Adam died, can we say he has NO end?
Adam died physically just like Abraham died physically.

But the bible says:

Mar 12:26-27:
"And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err."

Dead people were given white robes to put on after they protested their murder by wicked men

Rev 6:10-11
: "And they cried with a loud voice , saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were , should be fulfilled."

I believe I've answered your questions

shadeyinka:

You didn't answer the question!

Let me put it in another way:
What possible good could the tree of knowledge of good and evil bring? (Knowing that ALL of Gods creations were created good)

shadeyinka:

You didn't answer the question!

Let me put it in another way:
What possible good could the tree of knowledge of good and evil bring? (Knowing that ALL of Gods creations were created good)

shadeyinka:

Please let's slow down!

You know I accused you people of burying your victims under loads of information so as to drown such. But because I don't want to drown, permit me to slow you down a little.

The phrase "born again" came directly from Jesus himself

Let me quote the major reference so that we can be on the same page.

John 3:1-21:
"There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said to him, Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that you do, except God be with him.

Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus said to him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said to you, You must be born again. The wind blows where it wants, and you hear the sound thereof, but can not tell from where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Nicodemus answered and said to him, How can these things be? Jesus answered and said to him, Are you a master of Israel, and know not these things? Truly, truly, I say to you, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and you receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man has ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are worked in God."

1. Nicodemus came to Jesus at Night to ask a major Question. But instead of asking the question, he started "eulogizing" Jesus
2. Jesus knowing why he came went straight to the root of why Nicodemus came: He want to know how to enter the kingdom of God.
3. Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4. The word "Born Again" came forth as the requirement to make heaven.
5. Nicodemus was confused thinking of the impossibility of being born physically again since he was an adult.
6. Jesus had to explain that He was speaking of a "Spiritual Rebirth" rather than a physical rebirth by comparing it to seeing the effect of a wind but not seeing the wind itself.
7. Jesus linked up Nicodemus to remember the story of the Serpent in the wilderness
8. Jesus linked the bronze serpent to himself hung on a stake.


Do you think Nicodemus would have understood Jesus message without going round and round several Scriptures and creating Symbols even where they don't exist? (As you have tried to do)


And then, you have not answered this question of mine

Jesus says unless a person is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. To be born again means to be Baptized in the Holy Spirit or have the seal (mark) of the Holy Spirit. Since you claim not to have the Holy Spirit with the exception of the 144,000,

1.Can you show me from the Scriptures where only 144,000 people are said to be born again?
2. Can you also show from the Scriptures that only 144,000 will be in heaven?

If you aren't born again, I fear for your eternity.

shadeyinka:

Please according to your theology kindly link the Image seen by Nebuchadnezzar to the book of revelation?


@Ref to The Kingdoms of Gold, Silver, Bronze, Iron and the mixture of Iron and gold, were they not properly identified as Kingdom? But presiding upon each kingdom is a King (You Nebuchadnezzar are the Head of Gold). The bible didn't say: Babylon is the Head of Gold it was a personality referred to.

shadeyinka:

Please according to your theology kindly link the Image seen by Nebuchadnezzar to the book of revelation?


@Ref to The Kingdoms of Gold, Silver, Bronze, Iron and the mixture of Iron and gold, were they not properly identified as Kingdom? But presiding upon each kingdom is a King (You Nebuchadnezzar are the Head of Gold). The bible didn't say: Babylon is the Head of Gold it was a personality referred to.

shadeyinka:

I will answer you with just two Scriptures since you are not ready to answer mine.

Mat 22:32:
"I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

Luk 20:38:
"For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live to him."

shadeyinka:

Theory!?

Ok! What does the "Lake of Fire" represents?

This is probably the second time I'm asking you this question with no response!

What is the Identity of the Beast?
I have told you what the beast represent. Haven't I?

Our frame of reference is completely different: you believe we are in the tribulation period and I believe we have NOT yet entered the tribulation period.

I will not say what the Scriptures has not declared!

So, you who know the identity of the beast, can you please tell us?

shadeyinka:

Read your bible in context!

John 3:4-8:
"Nicodemus said to him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said to you, You must be born again. The wind blows where it wants, and you hear the sound thereof, but can not tell from where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."

You can see that the last part is reference to the Question of Nicodemus who thought that being Born again is a PHYSICAL activity. Jesus corrected him by saying that born of the flesh is of the flesh and that born of the spirit is of the spirit.

So, is everyone born of the spirit. (It isn't a Physical but Spiritual rebirth)

When Nicodemus was still asking questions about how can this things be, the Lord responded with

John 3:14-18:
"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."




So, what is the difference from the above passage between being saved and being born again?
Please reference:
Num 21:9: "And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it on a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man , when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived."

Any man: highlighted!





Can you please highlight the Differences between one who is born again and he how has eternal life?


The issue is not even this. The issue at stake is:
If up to the time of John the Baptist

Mat 11:11-13:
"Truly I say to you, Among them that are born of women there has not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John."

Why?

As Moses lifted up the Serpent in the wilderness could only be experienced by those alive at the time of Jesus.

Do you have a better explanation than John 3:14-18: to explain how a person is born again?

Barristter07:


Do you understand what you typed at all ? I doubt.

Been born again and getting saved are TWO different things.

Didn't you saw Jesus saying what Is born by flesh is flesh ? It means what Human born is human.

But once am individual experience Born again, it becomes a totally different thing _ such a person now have The hope of becoming a SPIRIT like God after their ressurection. What the spirit born is Spirit!,

Spirit dwells where ? Heaven.

That's the hope of a born again. And he can't choose. This , John 3:8 the wind blows WHERE it wants . you don't choose for the wind. God is the one chooses who is born again,


But for getting saved

NOT EVERYONE will become Spirit and go to heaven, Psalm 37:29 live forever on earth

Rev 21:3,4 God will be with MANKIND , showing people will have their eternal life on earth .

TATIME:
Your understanding of the whole scenario shouldn't be forced on other people!
Please we can all read the story in our copy of the Bible, so your religious belief is what will shapen your understanding just like anyone else!
That is why we need to reason along with others to be sure if what our religion teaches is in total conformity with the whole Bible or just trying to find texts to support what we believe.
God did not intend that man should die from the beginning so if today humans are dying here on earth, it doesn't implies that God's original purpose for man to live forever on earth has been flushed away! Isaiah 55:9-11
It is the right to decide what is good and bad that caused all these troubles. Genesis 2:17,3:4-5
The good and bad is tantamount to the right to rule, so the bone of contention lies in just one question: can man rule themselves successfully independent of God?
Thousands of years have passed and humans are now groaning in agony due to humans dominating humans! Ecclesiastes 4:1-2, 8:9
So God"s kingdom is arranged to right all the wrong, Jesus will be the King and 144,000 taken from the earth will rule beside him in heaven, but the subjects of that governments will be here on earth!
Those going to heaven were formerly humans but in order to be transformed into spirit beings, THEY MUST BE BORN AGAIN!
So to your questions
(1) Revelations 14:1 clearly says ONLY the 144,000 had the names of Jehovah and Jesus written on their foreheads! Well that means they're in a SPECIAL relationship with both the father and the son apart from billions of other survivors!
(2) Revelations 20:6 clearly says they will rule with Jesus[whose former abode is in heaven] before coming down to promise them of going to PREPARE a place for the in heaven! John 14:1-4
Regarding those that will live forever on earth, Isaiah clearly says "they will build houses and live ...and their live span will be as countless as that of a tree" Isaiah 65:21-22

Maximus69:
So that means all those following the teachings of religious leaders apart from individuals like you who attends religious services but aren't bound by any rules, will go to hell fire.
Then why are you against ONLY Jehovah's Witnesses?
Why not take these same message to all others following religious leaders?
Why not go and tell those following likes of Adeboye, Kumuyi and others that they are all doomed?

alBHAGDADI

Shadeyinka stay away from that guy called Ok.Cornel in the below thread, he's a Satanist. Don't be fooled by him. He will eventually side with JW.

https://www.nairaland.com/5183878/discussion-doctrine-between-christian-jehovahs

OkCornel:


Lemme see if I can chip in here (note, I'm not taking sides o, I'm just airing my view)...

THE POSSIBLE "GOOD"

KJV

The Serpent said this (focus on the bolded words) ;
Genesis 3 v 4-5;
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.


And Elohim corroborates it (focus on the bolded words) ;
Genesis 3 v 22;
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever



The possible good was that man became like gods. If they had eaten out of the tree of life, death would perhaps have been avoided.

If the serpent also had man's best interest at heart, it would have told them to eat from the tree of life...before eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil... but being a tricky and deceitful creature, it told a half-truth...

shadeyinka:

I must commend your response especially because you linked it with Gen3:22.

The tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil symbolises: Self Dependence (Independence from God). Knowing good and evil is like knowing everything to be self sufficient.

Unfortunately, man was created (for God's own pleasure: His very own children and gods of the Physical realm). Satan didn't tell Eve the full consequence however. The consequence was that they would loose their connection and bond to God.

A being Disconnected from God is dead. Death doesn't mean annihilation but a DISCONNECTION from the source.

shadeyinka:

God told Adam on the day you eat of that tree, you shall die. That same day, Adam and Eve were disconnected from their source of existence. Body, Soul and Spirit man began to suffer deprecation. Satan did not tell them that they would loose their spiritual powers and abilities. They were 419'nd.

Check my write-up on DEATH!

Barristter07:

It gave man the opportunity to show his love and appreciation for the Creator. Through obedience

God doesn't want robotic devotion. This is why I said earlier that freewill can only be exercised where there are multiple options

TATIME:
Your understanding of the whole scenario shouldn't be forced on other people!
Please we can all read the story in our copy of the Bible, so your religious belief is what will shapen your understanding just like anyone else!
That is why we need to reason along with others to be sure if what our religion teaches is in total conformity with the whole Bible or just trying to find texts to support what we believe.
God did not intend that man should die from the beginning so if today humans are dying here on earth, it doesn't implies that God's original purpose for man to live forever on earth has been flushed away! Isaiah 55:9-11
It is the right to decide what is good and bad that caused all these troubles. Genesis 2:17,3:4-5
The good and bad is tantamount to the right to rule, so the bone of contention lies in just one question: can man rule themselves successfully independent of God?
Thousands of years have passed and humans are now groaning in agony due to humans dominating humans! Ecclesiastes 4:1-2, 8:9
So God"s kingdom is arranged to right all the wrong, Jesus will be the King and 144,000 taken from the earth will rule beside him in heaven, but the subjects of that governments will be here on earth!
Those going to heaven were formerly humans but in order to be transformed into spirit beings, THEY MUST BE BORN AGAIN!
So to your questions
(1) Revelations 14:1 clearly says ONLY the 144,000 had the names of Jehovah and Jesus written on their foreheads! Well that means they're in a SPECIAL relationship with both the father and the son apart from billions of other survivors!
(2) Revelations 20:6 clearly says they will rule with Jesus[whose former abode is in heaven] before coming down to promise them of going to PREPARE a place for the in heaven! John 14:1-4
Regarding those that will live forever on earth, Isaiah clearly says "they will build houses and live ...and their live span will be as countless as that of a tree" Isaiah 65:21-22

Barristter07:


[i] I never discussed Gold or silver with you , You need to learn how to flow with discussion and not bringing in irrelevant matters.

I maintained that Beast are representatives of world government .

Compare Daniel 7:3 and Daniel 7:23

The beasts are called Kingdoms !

shadeyinka:

Do, you see how you ignore the obvious interpretation to weave a complex web of theory to justify your theology? Let me ignore this for now and let us focus on the 144,000. You know I asked two questions about them but you haven't responded.

1. You say only the 144,000 has the name of Jehovah written on their foreheads

Rev 21:24-27; 22:3-4:
"And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honor into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. And they shall bring the glory and honor of the nations into it. And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defiles, neither whatever works abomination, or makes a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. … And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads."

Please are these nation still the 144,000?


2. Where is the new Jerusalem and the Throne of God?

Rev 21:2-5: "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, [/b]and he will [b]dwell with them , and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them , and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said to me, Write: for these words are true and faithful."

alBHAGDADI:
Shadeyinka

I hope you saw my warning.

Stay off that Satanist. Completely ignore him.

Barristter07:


Do you understand what you typed at all ? I doubt.

Been born again and getting saved are TWO different things.

Didn't you saw Jesus saying what Is born by flesh is flesh ? It means what Human born is human.

But once am individual experience Born again, it becomes a totally different thing _ such a person now have The hope of becoming a SPIRIT like God after their ressurection. What the spirit born is Spirit!,

Spirit dwells where ? Heaven.

That's the hope of a born again. And he can't choose. This , John 3:8 the wind blows WHERE it wants . you don't choose for the wind. God is the one chooses who is born again,


But for getting saved

NOT EVERYONE will become Spirit and go to heaven, Psalm 37:29 live forever on earth

Rev 21:3,4 God will be with MANKIND , showing people will have their eternal life on earth .

Barristter07:


Do you understand what you typed at all ? I doubt.

Been born again and getting saved are TWO different things.

Didn't you saw Jesus saying what Is born by flesh is flesh ? It means what Human born is human.

But once am individual experience Born again, it becomes a totally different thing _ such a person now have The hope of becoming a SPIRIT like God after their ressurection. What the spirit born is Spirit!,

Spirit dwells where ? Heaven.

That's the hope of a born again. And he can't choose. This , John 3:8 the wind blows WHERE it wants . you don't choose for the wind. God is the one chooses who is born again,


But for getting saved

NOT EVERYONE will become Spirit and go to heaven, Psalm 37:29 live forever on earth

Rev 21:3,4 God will be with MANKIND , showing people will have their eternal life on earth .