₦airaland Forum

OkCornel:
How does this compare with John Chapter 1? i.e. In the beginning was the word....and so on?

What scriptural references also support Jesus and arch-angel Michael as one and the same person?

Does JW also believe Jesus and Melchizedek are one and same person?

shadeyinka:
I wish you had quoted Jude 6 before pouring out your memory verses

Jud 1:6:
"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness to the judgment of the great day
."

So some questions:
1. Do you believe that the death of Christ is also an atonement for the sin of angels?
2. Is the judgement of the great day over: ?
because these set of rogue angels are to be remanded in prison to the judgement day
3. Why did the Scripture reference the period of offence highlighted in red

Note: when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah


1Pet 3:18-20:
"For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but, quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah , while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."


Was the long suffering of God waiting for the rogue angels?


A truthful answer to this punches great holes in your response. Don't you think so?

Jozzy4:
Emusan agreed Other is not wrong ,

Stop attacking straw man, Why is Jesus called Son of God if he wasn't ccreated ?

Since he is created, JW are right

shadeyinka:
1. Can you please explain the qualifier: FIRE in the "Hell Fire" for we all know that fire wouldn't have oxygen to burn in the grave pit?

So, if the worst God can do isn't different from the worst God can do, why the FEAR?

A punishment of unconsciousness is NO punishment!

Your problem is that you don't even know that a man is a Trinity

1Ths 5:23
: "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

As far as you are concerned, angels are Spirits so they can exist without a body. But humans are just bodies so that once they die, they cease to exist.
2. If the spirit of man is God's life giving Breath (blown into the nostrils of man), what is angels Spirit?

TATIME:
Please Sir, i am not the type that likes argument. So my presentation could differ from what you believe, it is not a crime since we're not taught by the same religion!

I take offence when you call what i quoted as "memory verse" because each person will quote what stands as reason or proof for his conviction!

TATIME:
(1) NO! Jesus' death can only redeem humans affected by the sin of our father Adam, he is also an angel so his blood has no weight to redeem perfect creatures like himself!
(2) NO! The judgment day begins when Jesus starts ruling the earth and it will end after his 1,000 years rule!
During Christ's reign, all those angels with Satan will be prevented from having any dealings with humans, so there will be no more magical acts, sorcery, fortune telling, witchcraft and other acts of spiritism as those making all these effective have been rendered INACTIVE!
(3) For us to know how those angels got their blemish since they're not humans who commits offences that we can record,and to make us know the powers behind or sources of PRINCIPALITIES standing against God's children !

Janosky:
Janosky is in sifia pains and a hypocrite... Lying Pharisee wey no know say scriptures confirmed scriptures.

Jesus said his God and Father did NOT come in the flesh , "The Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have NEVER heard his voice nor seen his form"
John 5:37. Jesus words still refuted your God's own blood falsehood in Acts20:28.

How can God shed his own blood since Jesus said his God and Father was never seen on earth ?
Or you mean Jesus lied.
Go throway your God was manifest in the flesh falsehood for dustbin.

** Jesus says his God and Father granted life to his son, Jesus.
John 5:26.

Jesus Father and God created the universe THROUGH the Word, his spokesman, Jesus. Heb1:1,2.

"OTHER" emphasized what Jesus said in John 5:26 and Paul's account in Heb1:1,2 as AUTHENTIC FACT.
Are you so daft ? How can the one his Father granted life be the Creator?

Paste the words of Matt11;25,26 & Eph 3:14,15 into your brain.
Else ,your mumu is incurable.

shadeyinka:

How would you insert a word in the original Hebrew or Greek text and you still have an excuse?

However we know you have done exactly that for your English text. Please can you give me a link to either a Hebrew version or a Greek version of Jehovah's Witness Organisation printed bible?

shadeyinka:
I wish you had quoted Jude 6 before pouring out your memory verses

Jud 1:6:
"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness to the judgment of the great day
."

So some questions:
1. Do you believe that the death of Christ is also an atonement for the sin of angels?
2. Is the judgement of the great day over: ?
because these set of rogue angels are to be remanded in prison to the judgement day
3. Why did the Scripture reference the period of offence highlighted in red

Note: when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah


1Pet 3:18-20:
"For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but, quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah , while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."


Was the long suffering of God waiting for the rogue angels?


A truthful answer to this punches great holes in your response. Don't you think so?

shadeyinka:
I used the word "memory verses" because you are prone to ignoring questions when asked and instead what you do is just to state your doctrines. To me it sounds like a repeatation of what you have been taught rather than an analysis of the Scriptures for the truth!

shadeyinka:
Let me first address 1Pt @bolded!

shadeyinka:
What does the Hebrew text say?
What does the Greek text say?

Would you also insert WORDs so that the Jew would be decieved?

Emusan:
So to you adding the word OTHER in those verses didn't change the narration and the intended point of the original writer....

Wasn't the word OTHER added to place Jesus as second created being

If other translations do it, it's to support their false doctrine but if JWs does it, it's justified and right!


Hypocrisy and JWs are 5&6

Jozzy4:
Thank you for that point

@ alBHAGDADI , shadeyinka

Body and soul in HELL ?

Why is body not following soul to hell presently ooooo ?

Emusan:
What is this one saying

TATIME:
Please calm down when asking your questions. It is unchristian arguing when you actually wants someone to present his thoughts on Biblical texts!
(1) That is the handiwork of translators, the original word is Sheol~Hebrew or Hades~Greek, Bible translators influence by Babylonian philosophy rendered the text Hell and later Hellfire. So fire wasn't mentioned along with either Sheol or Hades, both simply means a place of inactivity[grave]

TATIME:
(2) It's like you're saying the worst God and man can do! So the difference is man can kill but have no power to determine whether some should be resurrected or not, whereas God can do both! So the FEAR Jesus was talking about is the hope Israelites had due to the scriptures that a resurrection is possible, Jesus is now telling them to FEAR not to hinder such themselves!

TATIME:
(3) Angels can't exist without a body!
What they don't need is PHYSICAL bodies but they certainly have SPIRITUAL bodies. The word spirit was used as interpretation of two different things: they power to sustain a living creature and creatures without physical bodies[angels]
So what God breath into human's nostril to sustain our breath is also referred to as spirit! Psalm 146:4 This breath is what sustains all living creatures both intelligent and unintelligent. Ecclesiastes 3:19-20
Angels were created from other elements not of this earth unlike humans created from dust their lifespan can't be cut short due to the conditions affecting physical beings so their continue existence or end of life only depends on God's decision!

Barristter07:

shadeyinka:
I have attached an interlinear translation for you to confirm if the word fire was inserted by the translators of the bible for
Mat 5:22: "
But I say to you, That whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

Mat 18:9:
"And if your eye offend you, pluck it out, and cast it from you: it is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire."



https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/5.htm

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/18.htm

Did you see the word "Pyros"?
What does it mean?



If God can render a man unconscious
AND
Man can render a man unconscious

There is no difference because an unconscious man knows nothing!

And why would there be resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous when all God needed to do was NOT to wake up the wicked?
Please help me answer these questions:

1. If God is JUST would He reward works done in righteousness?
2. Is the reward for the righteous the same irrespective of their works?
3. If God is JUST, would He punish evil works done in wickedness?

Of course angels have Spiritual Bodies and except by a special permission from God they don't put on physical bodies.

The Bible Says God is a Spirit!
John 4:24:
"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

Hence God has a spiritual body and identity just like a human body has a physical body and identity.

Look at what the Bible says of angels:

Heb 1:7:
"And of the angels he said, Who makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire."

Spirits don't need to breathe, do they?

Hence your definition of spirit is very narrow. A spirit is a living LIFE and IDENTITY!

If a Spirit has a Spirit Body, how come you say a human spirit is just what keeps him breathing?

1Ths 5:23:
"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Can you not see that man is a Trinity of a body , soul and spirit?

That is why those who perished during Noah's flood can be preached to by Jesus Christ! If they were unconscious, then it is impossible for them to be reached

Barristter07:
The KJV also insert " OTHER " in some of its text's . baseless claim u got there at highlighted

Barristter07:

It only change the narration, if Jesus wasn't created.

Is he not ? A question possed to you by the monicker " Jozzy4 " says explain why he is called Son of God.

shadeyinka:
Isa 9:6-7:
"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given: and the government shall be on his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, on the throne of David, and on his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from now on even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this."

Jesus was the Son, for He came as a Son in the finite world!

We can argue the beginning of Jesus, but can you argue the beginning of the WORD?

John 1:1:
"In the beginning was the Word , and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

If God created everything with His Word, what did He use to create the Word?

Jozzy4:
Am asking a question. Is Jesus not created ? Why called Son of God ? At least before you accuse someone of changing meaning, we must be certain about how genuine is your claim

Emusan:
And the truth is Jesus wasn't created, so your translation is faulty.

Jesus is the Son of God because He was born by God on earth

Jesus was The Word of God before His incarnation.

The Word of God is God!

I'll continue to say, until you people will be able to differentiate between when the scripture is talking about Jesus before He became part of creation and after He entered creation (become part of creation) then you people will continue in your delusional.

shadeyinka:
I used the word "memory verses" because you are prone to ignoring questions when asked and instead what you do is just to state your doctrines. To me it sounds like a repeatation of what you have been taught rather than an analysis of the Scriptures for the truth!



Except for Question 3 (which you didn't answer at all) , you answered very wisely and correctly.
However,
1. The implication of your answer for question 1 show that Jesus could not have gone to preach to those spirits (rogue spirits). Jesus could only have preached to human spirit who where from the time of Noah.
2. The implication of your answer in question 2 is that Jesus couldn't have preached to those rogue spirits who are still awaiting their judgement (that is still in the future).

The number 3 question was:
3. Why did the Scripture reference the period of offence highlighted in red
1Pt 3:18-20
......when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah , while the ark was a preparing,

The long suffering of God WAITED in the days of Noah while the rogue angels committed their offence well before the time of Noah.

So, a proper understanding of 1Pt 3:18-20, show that when Jesus was Crucified, his Spirit went to the place of the dead to preach to those souls who died before the atonement of Christ's blood on the cross.
What do you think?

shadeyinka:
I have attached an interlinear translation for you to confirm if the word fire was inserted by the translators of the bible for
Mat 5:22: "
But I say to you, That whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."

Mat 18:9:
"And if your eye offend you, pluck it out, and cast it from you: it is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire."



https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/5.htm

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/18.htm

Did you see the word "Pyros"?
What does it mean?



If God can render a man unconscious
AND
Man can render a man unconscious

There is no difference because an unconscious man knows nothing!

And why would there be resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous when all God needed to do was NOT to wake up the wicked?
Please help me answer these questions:

1. If God is JUST would He reward works done in righteousness?
2. Is the reward for the righteous the same irrespective of their works?
3. If God is JUST, would He punish evil works done in wickedness?


Of course angels have Spiritual Bodies and except by a special permission from God they don't put on physical bodies.

The Bible Says God is a Spirit!
John 4:24:
"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

Hence God has a spiritual body and identity just like a human body has a physical body and identity.

Look at what the Bible says of angels:

Heb 1:7:
"And of the angels he said, Who makes his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire."

Spirits don't need to breathe, do they?

Hence your definition of spirit is very narrow. A spirit is a living LIFE and IDENTITY!

If a Spirit has a Spirit Body, how come you say a human spirit is just what keeps him breathing?

1Ths 5:23:
"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Can you not see that man is a Trinity of a body , soul and spirit?

That is why those who perished during Noah's flood can be preached to by Jesus Christ! If they were unconscious, then it is impossible for them to be reached

Jozzy4:
Liar liar .

For God sent his only begotten SON.
Who did he sent ? If he wasn't a son before
God the son didn't exist before he came to earth ? no such thing as Trinity ? Una they rope yourself

Barristter07:

Address the Matthew 10:28 which you quoted

Does BODY and SOUL go to Hell ?

If people are in hell presently, is it with their Body or Jesus was lying ?

Emusan:
My brother, pay attention to that @color part, you perfectly describe them and that's what they were actually taught.

Defending watchtower organization and abandoned their reasoning in the hall.

Note: It's intentional and their aim is to divert your attention from the main point and confuse you with their lies.

Barristter07:
Angels or human.

@ highlighted, where is this prison located ? Is it the same as HELL ?

Let's start from there

TATIME:
Please to which of these questions do you need my answer?

TATIME:
You got me totally wrong Sir!
(1)When Jesus died, he was COMPLETELY inactive for three consecutive days! He couldn't speak, think nor hear anything in the grave where he was kept.
So his preaching in that sense wasn't like speaking to anybody verbally, his death is what that place referred to as PREACH! This simply means those angels now know for certain that God's plan to redeem mankind is completely fulfilled at Jesus' last breath as he gave up on the torture stake! John 19:30 Luke 23:46
Now the time left for them is shorter than what they've spent freely without being caged!

TATIME:
(2) This one you got correctly only that dead Jesus couldn't do a single thing!

TATIME:
(3) Jesus at death is just as any other living creature, he couldn't do anything because he is DEAD!
All his hope to live again lies in the hands of Jehovah in whose hands he gave up his spirit [the breath of life that sustains him as a human]
There is NO record of any event apart from angels coming to commit immorality on earth but it was all part of Noah's story, so those angels committed their offence which eventually led to the flood of Noah's day!

Jozzy4:
So many misquote above.

Just tell me why he is called Son of God ?

Jozzy4:
Be quoting verses up and down, and it doesn't support una , if your eyes offend you , it will go to hell, Mr shadeyinka , people carry their bodily organs to hell ni ?

Chai

Where did Jesus preach to victims of Noah's flood , in hell ?