₦airaland Forum

Maximus69:
Before Christianity was fully established in the year 33ce, anybody can worship the true God in the temple and God will accept such sacred service based on the former covenant. But after the day of Pentecost whoever worships differently from what Jesus' group teaches is no more worshiping the true God! Romans 10:1-4
So in order to worship God acceptably, you must identify the group his son is using otherwise all your worship is for demons! Act 2: 37-38
Satan is the one behind false worship and he is not relenting in using Jesus' name to organise false worship, that is why you need to IDENTIFY Jesus' group or else you'll end up in one of Satan's numerous traps[false religion]
Satan is deceiving people now with SIGNS and WONDERS so even if you're doing exactly what Jesus abhors, you'll be performing miracles in Jesus name! Matthew 7:21-23 compared to Revelations 16:13-14
So your sincere prayer now is 'how to IDENTIFY Jesus' REAL followers'!
Jesus have reorganized his group in this endtime, after his life and Ministry Satan killed all his true disciples and initiated false religion in the name of Jesus[Matthew 13:34-30] but today Jesus is back in the spirit and he is now separating the sheep[humble and righteous ones] from all the false religions in which they're lost to form one single happy global family of worshipers! Matthew 25:46
So if you refuse to join them and WORK with them as in support them in delivering the task Jesus gave them to do, he will disown you! Matthew 25:44-46

Hold on, so making Heaven now is a function of joining the JW assembly?

Those believers and missionaries who are not JW but were persecuted and killed for the sake of Jesus in places like Northern Nigeria, India, China, Middle East were worshipping demons or what? So Jesus will disown them for not being JW members?

By the way, you also mentioned satan can perform signs and wonders at the mention of Jesus' name. Let us examine the scriptures you quoted; Matthew 7 v 21-23; Revelation 16 v 13-14.

Matthew 7 v 21-23;

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

@maximus69, do you recall that scripture where the religious leaders accused Jesus of using the power of Belzeebub to cast out Demons? What was Jesus' response?


Revelation 16 v 13-14;

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.


Were these miracles performed in the name of Jesus per the scripture above?

solite3:
Jesus was speaking about natural birth and spiritual birth.
humans are flesh but when one is born of the spirit he becomes spirit in the sense that he is not subject to the prediction and laws of the natural man.


being a spirit does not mean to be God but when

Is Gods nature not spirit ?
Don't be silly, what does it mean to share the Divine nature ? is that not Gods nature ?

OkCornel:
Good response. Be patient with me though.

Christians and missionaries in Northern Nigeria, India, China, the middle East who are not JW but are also persecuted and killed for the sake of Jesus, do they serve a God different from the God JW worship?

If they're not ready to FIRST adjust all the blunders of their former founders[Matthew 3:7-12] God's holy spirit will not work with them. That's why all their efforts is not yielding good fruits as all their followers are nothing to right home about unlike the JWs whose foundation is solid and everyone can feel their activities globally! Those killing them don't know anything, what the spirit influencing those terrorist is against is the Bible which they're carrying!
So our God differs from theirs, don't be deceived with their travelling here and their only to establish the teachings of their human founders! Matthew 23:15

shadeyinka:
1. These are humans from the time of Noah and for emphasis, these are NOT angels!

2. The Bible didn't tell us the location BUT since it is a Prison for Disobedient Souls, it fits a perfect description for Hell.

Next Question?

Compare with Revelation 20:13 quoted by Jozzy4 earlier, are those in the sea said to be in Hell ?

Don't forget these were washed by water . getting interesting. It even generate the question as to if truly all wicked people go to hell or if hell is the home of wicked people

OkCornel:
Matthew 7 v 21-23;

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

@maximus69, do you recall that scripture where the religious leaders accused Jesus of using the power of Belzeebub to cast out Demons? What was Jesus' response?


Revelation 16 v 13-14;

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.


Were these miracles performed in the name of Jesus per the scripture above?

Jesus said i will say to them 'get away from me you workers of iniquity'
Who is behind iniquity? If they're using Jesus' name yet workers of iniquity surely it is Satan's work they're doing NOT Jesus'.
So Satan's Spirit is the one behind their Miracles NOT the Holy Spirit!

shadeyinka:
Since you need a little education,
1. There is a difference between Hell and Lake of Fire

Okay.

2. The first instance the word Lake of fire came up is in the book of Revelation

At least, its different from hell . let's keep that

3. Jesus did not specifically distinguish between Hell and Lake of Fire in the gospels.

Jesus mention Hell NOT Lake of fire.

Get that straight

With this background:
1. Before the day of resurrection, the dead but wicked Human Soul would go to Hell (a place of torment) while his body is in the grave.
Luk 16:22-23:
"And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and sees Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom."

[i] are you sure this is not compounding your problem , The expression " eyes, fingers , tongue and water " found in this story DOES not point to any immaterial soul BUT Human Body.

Jesus said BODY and SOUL in hell - Matthew 10:28 KJV

is the Rich man body not found in this hell ? W2#

2. After the day of resurrection, both the body and the soul of a wicked Human soul would go to the Lake of fire!

Rev 20:11-15:
"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged [b]every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."


[A question for you.
If the dead will be judged according to their works, do you think their would be a difference between the judgement of Hitler and the Judgement of a girl when died as a result of abortion?

The passage differentiate HELL from Lake of fire please.

Lake of fire is not the issue here.

Jesus said Body and soul in HELL .

Do you accept Body and soul go together to hell ?

solite3:
To be born of the spirit mean to means to carry the life of God.
I m a spirit presently but only in human flesh

This present earth is not the everlasting home of all those born of the Spirit that is why Jesus all those born of God will be where Jesus is.

Apply this quack explanation to every other human on earth , what do you get ? Everybody on earth is a born again

Yamayama

Jozzy4:
Scroll up , you would see where they even said Jesus is angel ooooo .

So funny

Jozzy4:
Thank you for that point

@ alBHAGDADI , shadeyinka

Body and soul in HELL ?

Why is body not following soul to hell presently ooooo ?

Thank you for highlighting it again.

Emusan:
And the truth is Jesus wasn't created, so your translation is faulty.

Jesus is the Son of God because He was born by God on earth

Jesus was The Word of God before His incarnation.

The Word of God is God!

I'll continue to say, until you people will be able to differentiate between when the scripture is talking about Jesus before He became part of creation and after He entered creation (become part of creation) then you people will continue in your delusional.

Let me get you clearly

He wasn't a son before coming to earth ?

Barristter07:
Angels or human.

@ highlighted, where is this prison located ? Is it the same as HELL ?

Let's start from there

Gradually .

Barristter07:
Apply this quack explanation to every other human on earth , what do you get ? Everybody on earth is a born again

Yamayama

I didn't say to be born of God mean to be a spirit.

being a spirit is not the same as to be born again. you started by misinterpreting Jesus words, he didn't say he that is born of the spirit is a spirit but rather that which is born of the spirit is spirit.

shadeyinka:
Is this not Prophetic?

Not prophetic, Is he a son before coming on earth ?

solite3:
I didn't say to be born of God mean to be a spirit.

being a spirit is not the same as to be born again. you started by misinterpreting Jesus words, he didn't say he that is born of the spirit is a spirit but rather that which is born of the spirit is spirit

U lack understanding.

John 4:24 " God IS SPIRIT "

Relate the highlighted words of Jesus with John 4:24 , if he that is born of spirit IS SPIRIT. Something is clear .

Barristter07:
U lack understanding.

John 4:24 " God IS SPIRIT "

Relate the highlighted words of Jesus with John 4:24 , if he that is born of spirit IS SPIRIT. Something is clear .

Is that what new world translation teaches?



John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

God is a Spirit not God is Spirit.

solite3:
Is that what new world translation teaches?



John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

God is a Spirit not God is Spirit.

Solite3 . hahahahaha Mi o le rerin o ( I Cannot laugh ooo )


The " a " was an addition by the translators , Now you are fighting for the inclusion of " a" but if it's found at John 1:1 of NWT , its wrong

, I will bookmark this

So back to the matter .

God IS SPIRIT

He born of of spirit IS SPIRIT

Something is clear !

Jozzy4:
Not prophetic, Is he a son before coming on earth ?

When was the son given?
Was it at the time of Isaiah?

Barristter07:
Thank you for highlighting it again.

I had answered this question, check my old posts

shadeyinka:
When was the son given?
Was it at the time of Isaiah?

Isaiah is a reference to an human child.

The question is : Was Jesus a SON before coming to earth ?

shadeyinka:
I had answered this question, check my old posts

I gave a reply to your answer . check it.and respond

Barristter07:
Okay.



At least, its different from hell . let's keep that



Jesus mention Hell NOT Lake of fire.

Get that straight



[i] are you sure this is not compounding your problem , The expression " eyes, fingers , tongue and water " found in this story DOES not point to any immaterial soul BUT Human Body.

Jesus said BODY and SOUL in hell - Matthew 10:28 KJV

is the Rich man body not found in this hell ? W2#




The passage differentiate HELL from Lake of fire please.

Lake of fire is not the issue here.

Jesus said Body and soul in HELL .

Do you accept Body and soul go together to hell ?

Cc : shadeyinka

Concerning the identity of the spirits in prison!
People of Noah's day or Angels of Noah's day

Barristter07:
Compare with Revelation 20:13 quoted by Jozzy4 earlier, are those in the sea said to be in Hell ?

Don't forget these were washed by water . getting interesting. It even generate the question as to if truly all wicked people go to hell or if hell is the home of wicked people

cc: shadeyinka . here is the response

Barristter07:
Okay.

At least, its different from hell . let's keep that

Jesus mention Hell NOT Lake of fire.

Get that straight

[i] are you sure this is not compounding your problem , The expression " eyes, fingers , tongue and water " found in this story DOES not point to any immaterial soul BUT Human Body.

Jesus said BODY and SOUL in hell - Matthew 10:28 KJV

is the Rich man body not found in this hell ? W2#

Did I not tell you that Jesus did not distinguish between Hell and Lake of Fire!. If He did, let us know?

So, the question is, anytime Jesus spoke about hell, was He speaking about
Hell= Abode of the Disobedient Souls
OR
Hell= Lake of Fire

Secondly, your understanding of the Spiritual is pathetic!
Your conclusion is the fact that since the Rich Man and Lazarus and Father Abraham were spirits beings they couldn't have had eyes, hands, and feeling . Ask yourself if you are making sense to even yourself?

The 144,000 of your people who will go to heaven as spirit beings: would they have hands, eyes etc?

Rev 14:3:
"And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."
With what do people sing?

God is a spirit isn't it?
YET!
1Pet 3:12:
"For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil."

What an argument?

Barristter07:
The passage differentiate HELL from Lake of fire please.

Lake of fire is not the issue here.

Jesus said Body and soul in HELL .

Do you accept Body and soul go together to hell ?

I have answered this question of yours:
In Hell (place of the evil souls) = Soul/Spirit of Man
In Hell (Lake of Fire) = Body/Soul/ Spirit of Man

Barristter07:
Compare with Revelation 20:13 quoted by Jozzy4 earlier, are those in the sea said to be in Hell ?

Don't forget these were washed by water . getting interesting. It even generate the question as to if truly all wicked people go to hell or if hell is the home of wicked people

I wonder if you know your bible beyond what the JW organisation showed you?

I wonder how you can even dream it fit to link up those who died in the sea with those who died in Noah's flood !!!? And you find it interesting!!!!!

Rev 20:13-15:
"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

1. This is resurection of the dead!
2. The sea giving up the dead in it means "even the physical bodies(dead) drowned or buried at sea were released.
3. Death and Hell giving delivered up their dead means the imprisoned Soul/Spirit were released.

The Scripture is saying however the way a person dies, he would be resurrected! Do you have an objection to this?


For the scripture did not speak about those who died in an inferno that burnt them into vapour?

I knew it and Good you ran into the tunnel!

I saved a post the other time. When you were questioned on whether Jesus spirit return to Hus Father , You Shadeyinka responded - God doesn't have literal hands , since he is spirit.

Let's apply this to the story of Rich man below

Cheers

[quote author=shadeyinka post=78727931]Did I not tell you that Jesus did not distinguish between Hell and Lake of Fire!. If He did, let us know?

So, the question is, anytime Jesus spoke about hell, was He speaking about
Hell= Abode of the Disobedient Souls
OR
Hell= Lake of Fire

The bible differentiate Hell from Lake of fire.

Seriously interesting.

Are there TWO hells ?

Secondly, your understanding of the Spiritual is pathetic!
Your conclusion is the fact that since the Rich Man and Lazarus and Father Abraham were spirits beings they couldn't have had eyes, hands, and feeling . Ask yourself if you are making sense to even yourself?

The 144,000 of your people who will go to heaven as spirit beings: would they have hands, eyes etc?

Rev 14:3:
"And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."
With what do people sing?


God is a spirit isn't it?
YET!
1Pet 3:12:
"For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil."

What an argument?

So God is now having literal hands for Jesus spirit to return ?

Rich man can taste water, Physical water ? physical body ?

I have answered this question of yours:
In Hell (place of the evil souls) = Soul/Spirit of Man
In Hell (Lake of Fire) = Body/Soul/ Spirit of Man

Hell is not lake of fire ... The Bible differentiate both. Stop LYING

Oh yeah!

shadeyinka:
I wonder if you know your bible beyond what the JW organisation showed you?

I wonder how you can even dream it fit to link up those who died in the sea with those who died in Noah's flood !!!? And you find it interesting!!!!

Someone who died in a flood is in the sea.

I know you would have to LIE and Manipulate facts to wriggle yourself out of this.

Rev 20:13-15:
"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

1. This is resurection of the dead!
2. The sea giving up the dead in it means "even the physical bodies(dead) drowned or buried at sea were released.

This one means physical body but Hell doesn't mean Physical body ? MUST YOU Fabricate lies

Whatever apply to the sea , apply to hell. Both says Dead ( meaning everything ) .

I guess souls are trapped in the sea

3. Death and Hell giving delivered up their dead means the imprisoned Soul/Spirit were released.

BODY, BODY and Soul. Physical body too - Matt 10:28

Does the rich man have his physical body or not ?

The Scripture is saying however the way a person dies, he would be resurrected! Do you have an objection to this?


For the scripture did not speak about those who died in an inferno that burnt them into vapour?

The rich MAN proved you a LIAR .

Is the physical body not in hell ?

shadeyinka:
I wonder if you know your bible beyond what the JW organisation showed you?

I wonder how you can even dream it fit to link up those who died in the sea with those who died in Noah's flood !!!? And you find it interesting!!!!!

Rev 20:13-15:
"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

1. This is resurection of the dead!
2. The sea giving up the dead in it means "even the physical bodies(dead) drowned or buried at sea were released.
3. Death and Hell giving delivered up their dead means the imprisoned Soul/Spirit were released .
[/b]

The Scripture is saying however the way a person dies, he would be resurrected! Do you have an objection to this?


For the scripture did not speak about those who died in an inferno that burnt them into vapour?

Fraud! Hell release the dead in it means souls were released , that's NOT ressurection , because resurrection is not just release but bringing back to life.

You are perpetrating a fraud in there, whatever apply to hell should apply to sea .

Barristter07:
Isaiah is a reference to an human child.

The question is : Was Jesus a SON before coming to earth ?

Even though this is not a question I will like to answer but
I will give you your answer from the Scriptures: So you judge!

Heb 5:5: "So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said to him, You are my Son, to day have I begotten you."

Acts 13:33: "God has fulfilled the same to us their children, in that he has raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, You are my Son, this day have I begotten you."

Heb 1:5: "For to which of the angels said he at any time, You are my Son, this day have I begotten you? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?"

Note the tense of Heb1:5 ......"he shall"

Isa 9:6-7: "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given: and the government shall be on his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, on the throne of David, and on his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from now on even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this."

I think you can answer your questions from the Scriptures

Barristter07:
Oh yeah!
Someone who died in a flood is in the sea.I know you would have to LIE and Manipulate facts to wriggle yourself out of this.
This one means physical body but Hell doesn't mean Physical body ? MUST YOU Fabricate lies
Whatever apply to the sea , apply to hell. Both says Dead ( meaning everything ) .
I guess souls are trapped in the sea
BODY, BODY and Soul. Physical body too - Matt 10:28
Does the rich man have his physical body or not ?
The rich MAN proved you a LIAR .
Is the physical body not in hell ?

When i agreed to discuss with him, i set some rules that will not lead both of us into bitter and hurtful arguments.
Just
¤Present your current conclusion on each Bible text!
¤Annalise the practical applications thereof!
¤Direct followers to doers of what you're saying!
¤Explain the benefits SEEN in the life of adherents!
NOT just saying 'you're wrong, i'm right' which will not yield any benefits for both participants and followers.
If that is how all threads on NL is organised, followers only need to carefully examine the thoughts, words and actions of each participant to know who is truly operating with God's holy spirit, and who is just heady about common human traditions!

Barristter07:
I knew it and Good you ran into the tunnel!

I saved a post the other time. When you were questioned on whether Jesus spirit return to Hus Father , You Shadeyinka responded - God doesn't have literal hands , since he is spirit.

Let's apply this to the story of Rich man below

Cheers

Instead of responding logical and intelligently, you are busy ranting up and down like atheists on Nairaland!

Your argument was that since eyes, tongue and body was mentioned with respect to the rich man, then Jesus couldn't have been talking about hell but the lake of fire! Unfortunately, if I have assented to the fact that it is the lake of fire,you would have come against me by justifying that Jesus was simply stating a parable!

Now that you where cornered, you feign "old post syndrome"!

Please respond to the argument at hand!
Were you justified to say that the rich man had a body and hence couldn't have been in Hell?

@ shadeyinka

You admit its a ressurection verse. But your explanation defeat this. If sea releasing dead bodies means bringing their dead body back to life.

By saying Hell releasing souls/spirit , are you implying soul and spirit die just like the body so that they need to be ressurected ? LOL