₦airaland Forum

aadoiza:
I pity him sometimes. I think his reason for becoming atheist is due to the "band wagon" effect. He jumped ship too soon to have a feel of the trendy atheism only to make a mess of himself on a public forum.

Indeed did he say he was a Muslim deconvert. And to be honest, still a baby atheist as I'm about to go and inform him. I do hope wasn't bandwagoned though. It just shows he is really a sheep.

tintingz:
Show me one Muslim that said my arguments are not what the Quran proposes.

I wonder if you have come across the popular atheist argument that says, "Affirmati Non Neganti Incumbit Probatio"?

You assert a concept in your own head tingz and you are asking me to prove to you that the concept that you asserted into your head is there? Or not there? Which is it exactly?

One single Muslim, tingz.

Alhamdullillah, mankind the apex oF God's living creatures on earth continues to exercise his intellect as evidenced by deliberations on this thread. Alhamdulillah!

Humans, generally take themselves too seriously, lol. I have some little time to post on nairaland right about now, I should have a good time in sha Allah.

who there is suggesting that menstruation is not necessary for human females, lol. Which part did you play in the design of the human, from concept to actualization. Pls show your proof. Homo sapien, the prime earthly intellect.

Does Allah owe his creation perfection while He is the doer of what He intends?

I remember the golden age of the Islam for muslims section, the days of Tbaba123, Maclatunji the Islamic fundamentalist , Vedaxcool etc. Those were the days. 2010-2015 thereabout. You came here then, and you had a good time, Tbaba was a beast in those days.

budaatum:
I wonder if you have come across the popular atheist argument that says, "Affirmati Non Neganti Incumbit Probatio"?

You assert a concept in your own head tingz and you are asking me to prove to you that the concept that you asserted into your head is there? Or not there? Which is it exactly?

One single Muslim, tingz.

As any Muslim disagree with me on what the Quran said?

I gave a verse from the Quran on menstruation, has any Muslim denied the Quran verse?

The Quran said menstruation is "harm and impure" show me any Muslim that claim the opposite.

aadoiza:
I pity him sometimes. I think his reason for becoming atheist is due to the "band wagon" effect. He jumped ship too soon to have a feel of the trendy atheism only to make a mess of himself on a public forum.

Red herring, projection fallacy.

aadoiza:
You're always getting it wrong. You still need to learn a bunch before professing your no-God belief to your people. Na beg I dey beg

Oga, you claim God is beyond logic, don't turn it to another thing. A red herring.

What does "beyond" means?

budaatum:
Indeed did he say he was a Muslim deconvert. And to be honest, still a baby atheist as I'm about to go and inform him. I do hope wasn't bandwagoned though. It just shows he is really a sheep.

Coming from a rookie theist.

You haven't answer my previous post, how does your definition of "beyond" contradict my premise?

Don't go red herring.

snubish:
who there is suggesting that menstruation is not necessary for human females, lol. Which part did you play in the design of the human, from concept to actualization. Pls show your proof. Homo sapien, the prime earthly intellect.

Why is menstruation "harm and impure"?

snubish:
Does Allah owe his creation perfection while He is the doer of what He intends?

Any evidence Allah is the creator?

snubish:
I remember the golden age of the Islam for muslims section, the days of Tbaba123, Maclatunji the Islamic fundamentalist , Vedaxcool etc. Those were the days. 2010-2015 thereabout. You came here then, and you had a good time, Tbaba was a beast in those days.

Yeah don't forget sweetnecta, LagosShia, deols, Jarus, Mukina2

tintingz:
What does "beyond" means?

This is not my problem. You are the one who approaches everything with your one-dimensional understanding. Budaatum provided you with simple definitions of "beyond" and you still couldn't grasp it.
I can only clue you in but can't teach you, as I'm not very didactic

aadoiza:
This is not my problem. You are the one who approaches everything with your one-dimensional understanding. Budaatum provided you with simple definitions of "beyond" and you still couldn't grasp it.
I can only clue you in but can't teach you, as I'm not very didactic

Ok, how does the definition contradict my premises?

Why the unverified claims in the scriptures?

Theism can't explain the presence of unverified claims in the scriptures purported to be the word of infallible God. The Abrahamic religious texts are burdened with these claims. As am posting in Islam For Muslim section, I'll stick to Qur'an and Hadith.

I usually don't like critiquing Qur'an verses as Hadith, but I'm afraid I have to be honest here. Here are 6 unverified claims from Qur'an & Hadith;

1. The Sun runs to her 'resting/dwelling place' - Wal shamsu tajri limustaqarri laha (Qur'an 36:38)

2. Fever comes from the heat of hell. Abate it with cold water. (Sahih al-Bukhari » Book of Beginning of Creation)

3. Dhul Qarnayn traveled till when he reached the rising (place) of the sun. (Qur'an 18:90)

4. Summer heat and winter cold is due to breathing of the hell fire. (Sahih al-Bukhari » Book of Times of the Prayers)

5. As for those women whom you fear unfaithfulness; admonish them, and separate from their beds, and strike them. (Qur'an 4:34)

6. Allah descends to the lower heaven in the third part of the night to listen to His servants. ( Sahih Muslim » The Book of Prayer - Travellers)

Unfortunately, as Muslims we can be susceptible to 're-interpretation bias' when we find these hadith and verses. It is not enough to mention them without explaining their apparent flaws.

Reinterpretation bias is when we reject the straight forward and often traditionally established interpretation of a verse or hadith, in order to derive an interpretation that suit our personal or cultural convictions. I confess I've been guilty of this in the past, but so are most Muslims.

Next time, we'll analyze the above verses and hadith in detail to express their apparent faults.

usermane:
Unfortunately, as Muslims we can be susceptible to 're-interpretation bias' when we find these hadith and verses. It is not enough to mention them without explaining their apparent flaws.

Reinterpretation bias is when we reject the straight forward and often traditionally established interpretation of a verse or hadith, in order to derive an interpretation that suit our personal or cultural convictions. I confess I've been guilty of this in the past, but so are most Muslims.

In Christianity, after we had turned deaf ears to burning bushes and angels and shepherds and phophets and asses and before Paul and co, Jesus returned to the Father and sent us the Holy Ghost to help us determine the proper understanding of the Holy Words of God.

I feel certain islam must have something similar, if someone could help me please.

budaatum:
In Christianity, after we had turned deaf ears to burning bushes and angels and shepherds and phophets and asses and before Paul and co, Jesus returned to the Father and sent us the Holy Ghost to help us determine the proper understanding of the Holy Words of God.

I feel certain islam must have something similar, if someone could help me please.

There isn't any 'Holy Ghost' to help understand the Qur'an, Allah (SWT) had taken care of that for us, Allah (SWT) Says in the Qur'n:

"It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. And no one knows its [true] interpretation except Allah . But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord." And no one will be reminded except those of understanding." (Qur'an 3:7 SAHIH INTERNATIONAL)

You would see for yourself when you do read the Qur'an, the clarity of the verses, and indeed there are verses that are allegorical and some that deals with the unseen, as Muslims, we believe everything as the true words of God, and what we do not understand from it buttresses the fact that our knowledge is indeed limited, and we can only know what is intended for us to know and understand.

The Prophet (SAW) was sent as a guide to bring us the message and also exemplify the this message. The revelation was best understood by the Prophet (SAW) and his immediate followers/students, who were much eager to learn by way of asking questions...So we do go back to the authentic narrations from the Prophet (SAW) and his companions to arrive at better understanding of the Qur'an. Of course, there are those who have dedicated their lives to the path of acquiring these knowledge of the religion, and thus we have scholars, who we can also seek understanding from.

Also, the Qur'an encourages us to reflect and reason while reading the Qur'an, Allah (SWT) wants us to employ critical thinking when we read the Qur'an, and not to be unmindful, for this would help us discover the wisdom and assist our understanding inherent it the verses, and build our confidence in the truth of the message.

Please take a look at the first verse usemane had quoted, he claims that it is unverified, but is the problem the verse or usermane?! I would only quote the remainder verses and you be the judge...

"And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.

And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm-leaf.

It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor doth the night outstrip the day. They float each in an orbit." (Qur'an 36:38-40 Picthall)

So as not to be confusing for other readers, let me quote another translation:

"And the sun runs [on course] toward its stopping point. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing.

And the moon - We have determined for it phases, until it returns [appearing] like the old date stalk.

It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but each, in an orbit, is swimming." (Qur'an 36:38-40 Sahih International)

Thank you. I'm sure usermane knows any effort against the Quran will end in futility. So he mixed in a few hadith to confuse himself further.
The Quran is perfect, muslims are not, Islam is not. But the Quran is indeed perfect, Alhamdulillah. People are living with a pure miracle in arrogant and ignorant heedlessness.

snubish:
Thank you. I'm sure usermane knows any effort against the Quran will end in futility. So he mixed in a few hadith to confuse himself further.
The Quran is perfect, muslims are not, Islam is not. But the Quran is indeed perfect, Alhamdulillah. People are living with a pure miracle in arrogant and ignorant heedlessness.

What makes the Quran perfect?

snubish:
Thank you. I'm sure usermane knows any effort against the Quran will end in futility. So he mixed in a few hadith to confuse himself further.
The Quran is perfect, muslims are not, Islam is not. But the Quran is indeed perfect, Alhamdulillah. People are living with a pure miracle in arrogant and ignorant heedlessness.

How's Islam not perfect? If you believe Qur'an is perfect, then the same Qur'an says Islam is perfect. Muslim's interpretations of Islam is where you can find faults and imperfection.

tintingz:
What makes the Quran perfect?

Everything therein.

aadoiza:
Everything therein.

Is killing homosexuals, beating wives etc a perfect morality?

tintingz:
Is killing homosexuals, beating wives etc a perfect morality?

You always fail to put things in proper perspectives.

aadoiza:
You always fail to put things in proper perspectives.

What I said can be found in the Qur'an, is it a perfect morality?

1. The Sun runs to 'resting place/dwelling' for her - Wal shamsu tajri limustaqarri laha (36:38)

Reading from Qur'an 36:37 - 40, it is strongly implied that the context of this verse is the diurnal cycle. This sun's resting place at night is supposed to be a sign, but our understanding of the sun thus far confirms no resting place for it.

Some Muslim translate the phrase 'limustaqarin haha' to 'the term appointed for it', instead of 'the resting place for it.' This is not convincing translation, because when ever the Qur'an uses 'limustaqarin' for physical object, it implies a physical location. Not a term.

Some Muslims re-interpret limustaqarrin to mean solar apex, & they say this verse is even a scientific miracle. I'm skeptical of that because we cannot overlook the context of this verse - day-night cycle. Solar apex have nothing to do with day and night.

Solar apex is a direction the entire the entire solar system, not just the sun, is traveling relative to the fixed stars. Solar apex is not confirmed as the resting place of the sun. It is a direction, rather than a resting place for the sun.

Also solar apex can't be revealed for 7th century folks because it was beyond their observation and comprehension. It may just confuse them and cause misinterpretation. Here is how the scholars of Qur'an understood the verse, nothing like solar apex; https://quranx.com/tafsirs/36.38

In ancient times, people didn't understand earth rotation and time zone. They thought all the earth did not see the sun at night, and that the sun goes to its resting place after sunset, outside the physical realm of the universe. It is suspicious that this verse resembles such myths on the sun.

2. Fever comes from heat of hell

The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Fever is from the heat of the (Hell) Fire; so abate fever with water."

This is also unverifiable. Fever as we know comes from body response to pyrogens. Water won't help fever patient. That is why we've developed NSAIDs like Asprin or Paracetamol.

budaatum:
In Christianity, after we had turned deaf ears to burning bushes and angels and shepherds and phophets and asses and before Paul and co, Jesus returned to the Father and sent us the Holy Ghost to help us determine the proper understanding of the Holy Words of God.

I feel certain islam must have something similar, if someone could help me please.

As far as Qur'an is concerned, it is a self explained book. Ideally, every man is his own interpreter of the Qur'an. No clergy.