usermane:
@budaatum, you're difficult to understand. You said earlier on the Qur'an is not the word of God. Then you said it is the word of God, now you say Muhammad heard it from Angel?

Yes, I am difficult to understand, and I mean all three.

If a person does not put on the right glasses and read with the right mind, the Quran is not the Word of God for that person but just some stupid words written by a fool who deludedly imagined angels taking to him. But with the right mind one sees the hands of God writing it and it being printed on God's own printing press in heaven.

You might want to reread this, and you may want to learn about Jesusglasses here.

tintingz:
Assuming it was different from todays own, does it change my premise?

Your premise being what? That one can read words written about 1300 years ago and "run" then means just run now?

budaatum:

Your premise being what? That one can read words written about 1300 years ago and "run" then means just run now?

My original premise is about Quran: "menstruation being harmful and impure as argument for Allah being imperfect" then you started with the Qur'an is not the word of God, angel Gabriel revealed it to Muhammad then the Quran is word of God and so on.

I don't know what your argument is exactly.

tintingz:
My original premise is about "menstruation being harmful and impure as argument for Allah being imperfect" then you started with the Qur'an is not the word of God, angel Gabriel revealed it to Muhammad then the Quran is word of God and so on.

I don't know what your argument is exactly.

And I'm not going to go over it again because, as I said, you are incapable of understanding it!

sino:


Narrated Abu Dhar:

The Prophet (ﷺ) asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: "And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All- Knowing." (36.38)

But the above narration is still not talking about the earth's movement, rather it talks about that of the Sun. Also, it is established in the Qur'an that everything in the heavens and the earth prostrates, but we humans have no clue HOW this is being done, hence, it is a matter beyond the comprehension of man.

Sure, it is not revealed how the sun prostrate, but it is revealed it goes somewhere. Now, that somewhere has to be outside our physical realm. But the sun is always in the physical realm.

Now, the narration talks about how the Sun will not be able to 'prostrate' (I'm I wrong to imagine you understand this to mean sunset?), and it would seek permission to go on its course which would be denied, but will be instructed to return whence it has come and so will rise in the west, one needs to ask, is the Sun not coming from the east?! If the Qur'an/hadith while talking about the movement of the Sun, is referring to the diurnal cycle or talking about the alternation of night and day, shouldn't it have returned to the east?! And how does the Sun sets in the west, only for it to rise in the east?!

The sun is not coming to the Throne from the east. The sun sets in the west. So it comes towards the Throne from the West. Returning to the whence it came from mean returning to the west and rising from the west. As one of the major signs of judgement day according to hadith.

Where is this 'resting place'

I would have to be outside the physical realm.

and how does this Sun rise from its resting place from another place entirely?!

Who knows? May be it is assumed there is another path for the sun, leading eastward from underneath the Throne of prostration to the east where it rises on earth horizon?

Of course, at the end of the narration, it clearly states what the verse in question is really referring to, that there is a decreed point in time and space where the Sun's movements will reach and everything will change!

But it says nothing about like this. It just states where the sun goes at sunset and is permitted to rise after prostration but one day it won't be allowed to rise from the east, it usual rising place. I thought this is straight forward. Remember the hadith on the greater sign of the resurrection; the sun rising from the west?

This narration only buttress the fact that your understanding taken from the interpretation of the Qur'an is faulty and parochial, and that the movements of the Sun and the Moon is quite different from the alternations of night and day!

It is not faulty, it is a very probable understanding. Even the scholars of Qur'an considered it.

Are you the author of the Qur'an?! Is the Qur'an a scientific book that want to teach you in details, geography and astronomy?! Even so, the fact that Allah (SWT) informed us that these celestial bodies do have their own orbits, should easily make you know that earth would definitely also have its own motion and its own orbit!

Let me help you with an appropriate verse:

He created the heavens and the Earth with truth. He wraps the night around the day and wraps the day around the night, and has made the Sun and Moon subservient, each one running for a specified term. Is He not indeed the Almighty, the Endlessly Forgiving? (Sahih International Qur'an 39: 5)

I hope it is getting clearer?! Can you see the distinctions?! Night and day a la earth's rotation, and Sun and Moon, running specific term and being useful for earth and its inhabitants?!

Ah, this is only one way of looking at it. And It is not indisputable. It is still highly plausible that this verse(36:38) is alluding to geocentric model of the universe - wherein the solar and lunar orbits are tied to diurnal cycle.

As to 39:5, this is surely speculation on your part. If you lived in the 7th century, reading the Qur'an and this verse won't give you the impression of earth movement. The Qur'an explicitly mentions the solar and lunar orbit, it is hard to understand why it didn't mention the earth orbit likewise, if it imply the earth revolve and rotate.

Also, I wonder why any time the Qur'an speak of lunar and solar orbit, it speak about day and night? The Qur'an seem to imply geocentric universe model more than helical model.

Bro, it is beyond mastering the Arabic language, the translators would always try their best, but they are also limited by their own knowledge and understanding, not to mention the limitation associated in not making the whole thing too voluminous! Hence, the need for righteous Scholars and a sincere mind to learn and understand the Qur'an.

My position on 36:38 is the position of some of the scholars according to ibn Kathir; https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Kathir/36.38

tintingz:
He has problem following his premises.

He's just grasping at straws.

If you say so. Here are his views;

Qur'an is not the word of God, but the words Jubril revealed to Muhammad.

The Qur'an is the word of God.

There is a chance the Qur'an may be distorted.

Just so you don't confuse your understanding of my views with my views:

budaatum:

Yes, I am difficult to understand, and I mean all three.

If a person does not put on the right glasses and read with the right mind, the Quran is not the Word of God for that person but just some stupid words written by a fool who deludedly imagined angels taking to him. But with the right mind one sees the hands of God writing it and it being printed on God's own printing press in heaven.

You might want to reread this, and you may want to learn about Jesusglasses here.

usermane:


If you say so. Here are his views;

Qur'an is not the word of God, but the words Jubril revealed to Muhammad.

The Qur'an is the word of God.

There is a chance the Qur'an may be distorted.

usermane:


Sure, it is not revealed how the sun prostrate, but it is revealed it goes somewhere. Now, that somewhere has to be outside our physical realm. But the sun is always in the physical realm.



The sun is not coming to the Throne from the east. The sun sets in the west. So it comes towards the Throne from the West. Returning to the whence it came from mean returning to the west and rising from the west. As one of the major signs of judgement day according to hadith.



I would have to be outside the physical realm.



Who knows? May be it is assumed there is another path for the sun, leading eastward from underneath the Throne of prostration to the east where it rises on earth horizon?

Your last statement here, makes all the above assumptions null! Except you do have another narration that states the path of the Sun to rise from the east?!

usermane:

But it says nothing about like this. It just states where the sun goes at sunset and is permitted to rise after prostration but one day it won't be allowed to rise from the east, it usual rising place. I thought this is straight forward. Remember the hadith on the greater sign of the resurrection; the sun rising from the west?

I would agree it is indeed straight forward, only issue here is your interpretation...At least, it seems 'resting place' wouldn't mean place of prostration, for that does not imply rest or does it?! Again, the narration talks about the last day, and the sign of the last day, bringing the verse in question into perspective. I also brought another verse which indicates that these celestial bodies do have a decreed term for their travels in their own orbits, but you just want to stick to what you want to argue with.

usermane:

It is not faulty, it is a very probable understanding. Even the scholars of Qur'an considered it.

Scholars views are not cast in stone, and are not binding! This is one of your faulty reasoning, I have read the tafsir of the same verse in tafsir Tabari, and there are different opinions, including the one I am presenting here! I have indicated earlier the importance of applying critical thinking in understanding the Qur'an, and the limitations of available knowledge!

usermane:

Ah, this is only one way of looking at it. And It is not indisputable. It is still highly plausible that this verse(36:38) is alluding to geocentric model of the universe - wherein the solar and lunar orbits are tied to diurnal cycle.

As to 39:5, this is surely speculation on your part. If you lived in the 7th century, reading the Qur'an and this verse won't give you the impression of earth movement. The Qur'an explicitly mentions the solar and lunar orbit, it is hard to understand why it didn't mention the earth orbit likewise, if it imply the earth revolve and rotate.

Also, I wonder why any time the Qur'an speak of lunar and solar orbit, it speak about day and night? The Qur'an seem to imply geocentric universe model more than helical model.

There is a reason the revelation of the Qur'an is unique and it is meant for all times! When Allah (SWT) says:

"Say, "If the sea were ink for [writing] the words of my Lord, the sea would be exhausted before the words of my Lord were exhausted, even if We brought the like of it as a supplement." (Sahih International Qur'an 18:109)

You should know that for every period in time, the people understood the message which is the same, the other aspects of knowledge that evolves would only help buttress this understanding!

As I have indicated earlier, the Qur'an isn't a book of astronomy or geography, and Allah (SWT) calls these celestial bodies and the night and day as signs for those who reflect!

usermane:

My position on 36:38 is the position of some of the scholars according to ibn Kathir; https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Kathir/36.38

I have addressed this above, but the problem with you is that you want to use a single opinion of some scholars to validate your own prejudicial views of the Qur'an, its interpretations and Islam in general!

5. Wife Striking - Qur'an 4:34

As for those women whom you fear unfaithfulness; admonish them, and separate from their beds, and strike them(wadhribuhoona). (Qur'an 4:34)

Obviously, striking a misbehaving wife is not a good measure for a husband. Striking could further provoke the wife, which could in turn result in more dire consequence like a full blown fist fight between the couple. And such a fight could yield all degrees of injuries and even death.

Therefore, the truthfulness in this verse is unverified. To account for this, some Muslims, particularly the reformists have proposed alternate translation of "wadhribuhoona"(strike them) - separate from them OR Report/Cite them. I've supported either reformist positions in the past. But I look at things differently nowadays.

Linguistically, the reformists translation is tenable. But the only reason they've rejected the traditional translation is because they live in 21st century, the age of human right and gender equality. We live in the society that frown upon couples hitting each other. So, when we see a verse ordering us to hit our wives, we immediately consider an alternative interpretation.

But what if we lived in the 10th century, where men striking their wives is just as norm as parents spanking their kids today? We'd not bother re-interpreting this phrase for a less physical application. The Qur'an tells us it is very clear. If the Qur'an meant "separate from or report" such misbehaving wives, why express it in words that can also mean "strike"?

6. Allah descends to the lower heavens every

“Our Lord, the Blessed and Exalted, descends when one third of the night remains, every night and He says: ‘Who will ask of Me, that I may give him? Who will call upon Me, that I may answer him? Who will ask My forgiveness, that I may forgive him?’ until dawn comes.”

This is not rationally verified. At every point in time, a point on the earth is in the latter part of the night. Going by this hadith, this would mean Allah is constantly moving across the globe at the lower heaven 24/7/365! But if this is what Allah mean then why tell us that He descends to the lower heaven?

You can see this hadith makes no sense on a round rotating earth. It would make sense if the earth were flat, and everywhere on earth experience the third part of the night simulatenously. It is clear that most of the early Muslims thought the earth flat.

sino:


I also brought another verse which indicates that these celestial bodies do have a decreed term for their travels in their own orbits, but you just want to stick to what you want to argue with.

Thank you.

OK, It seem I misunderstood you. I guess what you're saying is that this verse(39:5) implies an orbit the earth runs for a specified term.

But I don't see this! The phrase, "all running for a specified term" is referring to the sun, moon, night and day. If you want to refer the phrase to the earth as well, then you'll have to include the heavens - space. This won't make sense. I've not seen any tafsir supporting it either.

Besides, "term appointed" is not necessarily implying "orbit". There are two verses where "orbit" is directly mentioned in reference to celestial bodies; 21:33 and 36:40, the earth is never mentioned in any of them. And in both, day and night is mentioned!

I would agree it is indeed straight forward, only issue here is your interpretation...At least, it seems 'resting place' wouldn't mean place of prostration, for that does not imply rest or does it?!

It could imply a place of prostration if it is taken to be where the sun basically takes a break from the earth horizon.

Your last statement here, makes all the above assumptions null!

But how?

See, the sun's resting place is not necessarily a point, a dead end. It could be a space. For instance, the ancient civilizations like the Sumerians believed this. To them, the sun enters a gate in the west(sunset), and travels through the underworld at night, and emerges through the gates in the east(sunrise).

It is not improbable that the resting place for the sun in the Qur'an could be a reference or allusion to the underworld for the sun in the Sumerian religion.

Except you do have another narration that states the path of the Sun to rise from the east!

I have another narration. Not a classified hadith, but an hadith nonetheless. In The History of Al Tabari: General Introduction from the Creation to the Flood, vol 1, pg 234/235.. - Al Tabari reports a story relayed from the prophet by Ibn Abbas;

For the sun and the moon, He created easts and wests (positions to rise and set) on the two sides of the earth and the two rims of heaven, 180 springs in the west of black clay — this is (meant by) God's word: "He found it setting in a muddy spring," 442 meaning by "muddy (hami’ah)” black clay — and 180 springs in the east likewise of black clay, bubbling and boiling like a pot when it boils furiously. He continued. Every day and night, [65] the sun has a new place where it rises and a new place where it sets. The interval between them from beginning to end is longest for the day in summer and shortest in winter. This is (meant by) God's word: "The Lord of the two easts and the Lord of the two wests,"

The resting place of the sun is between the points of sunset and sunrise.

Scholars views are not cast in stone, and are not binding! This is one of your faulty reasoning, I have read the tafsir of the same verse in tafsir Tabari, and there are different opinions, including the one I am presenting here! I have indicated earlier the importance of applying critical thinking in understanding the Qur'an, and the limitations of available knowledge!

There is a reason the revelation of the Qur'an is unique and it is meant for all times! When Allah (SWT) says:

"Say, "If the sea were ink for [writing] the words of my Lord, the sea would be exhausted before the words of my Lord were exhausted, even if We brought the like of it as a supplement." (Sahih International Qur'an 18:109)

You should know that for every period in time, the people understood the message which is the same, the other aspects of knowledge that evolves would only help buttress this understanding!

I gather what you're saying here is that certain verses were revealed before human knowledge advanced enough to fully understand them. And that these verses are to be better understood in future generations as human knowledge expanded. I held this view previously, but gave it away for two reasons.

1. This would mean the early Muslims could not verify some verses of the Qur'an, since human knowledge was not advanced enough to understand these verses in order to verify their accuracy.

2. This would also mean we can never be sure if we fully understand some of these verses. Our understanding today may in fact be wrong and later generation of Muslims with more advanced knowledge will look back and correct our interpretation.

As I have indicated earlier, the Qur'an isn't a book of astronomy or geography, and Allah (SWT) calls these celestial bodies and the night and day as signs for those who reflect!

Yes, but those are not just signs. Those are also intended to teach man a bit of astronomy. Religion is science + spirituality. The Qur'an defines itself a clarification for everything.

I have addressed this above, but the problem with you is that you want to use a single opinion of some scholars to validate your own prejudicial views of the Qur'an, its interpretations and Islam in general!

When I first replied you, notice I did not mention anything about scholars or even hadith. I have no doubt that your interpretation of the verse is considerable, but mine is just as considerable, even if not more considerable.

And this in itself is a problem with the Qur'an. There should not be the slightest chance that an erroneous view of reality be deducible from the Qur'an, especially among scholars so close to the days of Muhammad. The Qur'an defines itself as a clear book.

userm.ane:
5. Wife Striking - Qur'an 4:34



Obviously, striking a misbehaving wife is not a good measure for a husband. Striking could further provoke the wife, which could in turn result in more dire consequence like a full blown fist fight between the couple. And such a fight could yield all degrees of injuries and even death.

Therefore, the truthfulness in this verse is unverified. To account for this, some Muslims, particularly the reformists have proposed alternate translation of "wadhribuhoona"(strike them) - separate from them OR Report/Cite them. I've supported either reformist positions in the past. But I look at things differently nowadays.

Changing and attributing another meaning entirely to a verse that is clear. The idea behind the verse is not essentially about hitting, striking or beating your wife. Dont curry flavor the ayah. It is clear. Those you try to please beat the heck off thier women. Visit households of self proclaimed 'reformists', they have history of domestic violence. We dont need them to give other meanings to the clear verse. Da ra ba is exactly what it is. "Separate from the" or "report/cite them" have their own arabic meanings

sino:

"Say, "If the sea were ink for [writing] the words of my Lord, the sea would be exhausted before the words of my Lord were exhausted, even if We brought the like of it as a supplement." (Sahih International Qur'an 18:109)

This is my favorite verse in the Quran. I see it as a parallel to [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+21%3A25&version=KJV]John 21:25[/url]
"Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written." Though one must bear in mind Islam's adherence to the command that God is a jealous God.

Thank you Sino.

usermane:




Ah, this is only one way of looking at it. And It is not indisputable. It is still highly plausible that this verse(36:38) is alluding to geocentric model of the universe - wherein the solar and lunar orbits are tied to diurnal cycle.

As to 39:5, this is surely speculation on your part. If you lived in the 7th century, reading the Qur'an and this verse won't give you the impression of earth movement. The Qur'an explicitly mentions the solar and lunar orbit, it is hard to understand why it didn't mention the earth orbit likewise, if it imply the earth revolve and rotate.

I'm gonna have to agree with you here. The Qur'an clearly hints at the geocentric model of our solar system in 39:5. Modern-day Muslims can deny it all they want or interpret it to suit the theoretical heliocentric model just so they could appeal to science, I don't give a hoot, but that verse is one of the main reasons I'm gonna hold on to the knowledge of a motionless earth till I die.

aadoiza:

I'm gonna have to agree with you here. The Qur'an clearly hints at the geocentric model of our solar system in 39:5. Modern-day Muslims can deny it all they want or interpret it to suit the theoretical heliocentric model just so they could appeal to science, I don't give a hoot, but that verse is one of the main reasons I'm gonna hold on to the knowledge of a motionless earth till I die.

Lol you mean you believe the earth is not moving?

Are you a flat eather?

usermane:


Thank you.

OK, It seem I misunderstood you. I guess what you're saying is that this verse(39:5) implies an orbit the earth runs for a specified term.

But I don't see this! The phrase, "all running for a specified term" is referring to the sun, moon, night and day. If you want to refer the phrase to the earth as well, then you'll have to include the heavens - space. This won't make sense. I've not seen any tafsir supporting it either.

Besides, "term appointed" is not necessarily implying "orbit". There are two verses where "orbit" is directly mentioned in reference to celestial bodies; 21:33 and 36:40, the earth is never mentioned in any of them. And in both, day and night is mentioned!

You are welcome.

I believe "all running for a specific term" means what it means, after all, at a point everything created would perish, except the Creator! (Qur'an). Secondly, the Arabic used is plural, if it was just for the Sun and Moon, then the word would be in dual form (You see why I had advised you learn the language of the Qur'an?!)

Also, as I have pointed out earlier, it is not just until it is explicitly stated that you would come to such conclusions, that is why I alluded to using your thinking skills! When you read, "He wraps the night around the day and wraps the day around the night, and has made the Sun and Moon subservient" does it suggests that it is the movement of the Sun and the Moon doing this wrapping around?! Does the Moon bring about night?!

usermane:

It could imply a place of prostration if it is taken to be where the sun basically takes a break from the earth horizon.



But how?

See, the sun's resting place is not necessarily a point, a dead end. It could be a space. For instance, the ancient civilizations like the Sumerians believed this. To them, the sun enters a gate in the west(sunset), and travels through the underworld at night, and emerges through the gates in the east(sunrise).

It is not improbable that the resting place for the sun in the Qur'an could be a reference or allusion to the underworld for the sun in the Sumerian religion.

But there is nothing in the Qur'an or authentic hadiths that indicates this! If there is none, then it remains your assumptions! I don't deal with such!

usermane:

I have another narration. Not a classified hadith, but an hadith nonetheless. In The History of Al Tabari: General Introduction from the Creation to the Flood, vol 1, pg 234/235.. - Al Tabari reports a story relayed from the prophet by Ibn Abbas;

For the sun and the moon, He created easts and wests (positions to rise and set) on the two sides of the earth and the two rims of heaven, 180 springs in the west of black clay — this is (meant by) God's word: "He found it setting in a muddy spring," 442 meaning by "muddy (hami’ah)” black clay — and 180 springs in the east likewise of black clay, bubbling and boiling like a pot when it boils furiously. He continued. Every day and night, [65] the sun has a new place where it rises and a new place where it sets. The interval between them from beginning to end is longest for the day in summer and shortest in winter. This is (meant by) God's word: "The Lord of the two easts and the Lord of the two wests,"

The resting place of the sun is between the points of sunset and sunrise.

I also do not use unclassified hadiths to form major opinions about my faith! There are important reasons why there is an aspect of Islamic knowledge known as science of hadiths...

usermane:

I gather what you're saying here is that certain verses were revealed before human knowledge advanced enough to fully understand them. And that these verses are to be better understood in future generations as human knowledge expanded. I held this view previously, but gave it away for two reasons.

1. This would mean the early Muslims could not verify some verses of the Qur'an, since human knowledge was not advanced enough to understand these verses in order to verify their accuracy.

2. This would also mean we can never be sure if we fully understand some of these verses. Our understanding today may in fact be wrong and later generation of Muslims with more advanced knowledge will look back and correct our interpretation.

No! I said the message of the Qur'an is clear to every generation, the advancement in knowledge only helps buttress the understanding of this message, and this doesn't suggest that the message was never understood, but to buttress the message as the truth form Allah (SWT)! Those who were in the time of the Prophet (SAW) saw the Prophet and witness the truth of the message of the Prophet (SAW), they do not need the heliocentric model to believe this truth, neither do they need the the anatomic view of the embryo's developmental stages in the womb!

The question you need to ask yourself is, what is the message of the Qur'an?!

usermane:

Yes, but those are not just signs. Those are also intended to teach man a bit of astronomy. Religion is science + spirituality. The Qur'an defines itself a clarification for everything.

Lol, yes indeed, the Qur'an does clarifies everything, and that is the reason why the first verses revealed talks about knowledge and seeking it extensively, for these advancements in all forms of knowledge, stems from the Creator! Aren't all the knowledge gathered thus far about the life, man and the universe?! And is Allah (SWT) not the creator of all these (according to Islam)?!

You should know that those scholars after the time of the Prophet (SAW) who were involved in different aspects of science were doing so based on this understanding of seeking beneficial knowledge...

usermane:

When I first replied you, notice I did not mention anything about scholars or even hadith. I have no doubt that your interpretation of the verse is considerable, but mine is just as considerable, even if not more considerable.

And this in itself is a problem with the Qur'an. There should not be the slightest chance that an erroneous view of reality be deducible from the Qur'an, especially among scholars so close to the days of Muhammad. The Qur'an defines itself as a clear book.

Whatever you wish to consider isn't the problem of the Qur'an, afterall, there are those who even take verses of the Qur'an out of context, erroneously (and sometimes on purpose) to justify their hate, terrorism, corruption, etc...The truth is always clear, and with a little bit of open-minded reasoning and reflection coupled with sincerity (or as Buda puts it, diligence and perseverance), you would always see the truth in the Qur'an, a clear book!

Difference of opinions amongst scholars, if not about the fundamentals of the religion, are entertained as part of their intellectual exercises, so, their mistakes are what they are, mistakes! They are humans and not free from making such as I might have made in my responses to you!

budaatum:

This is my favorite verse in the Quran. I see it as a parallel to [url=https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+21%3A25&version=KJV]John 21:25[/url]
"Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written." Though one must bear in mind Islam's adherence to the command that God is a jealous God.

Thank you Sino.

You are welcome Buda, for what it's worth, God is one and same!

sino:


You are welcome Buda, for what it's worth, God is one and same!

The Books do say so. We humans just don't see.

tintingz:
Lol you mean you believe the earth is not moving?

Are you a flat eather?

Of course I know the earth is perfectly stationary.
What the heck is flat earther?

aadoiza:

Of course I know the earth is perfectly stationary.

If the earth is stationary, how does day, night and seasons work in your world?

What the heck is flat earther?

People that believe the earth is flat.

tintingz:
If the earth is stationary, how does day, night and seasons work in your world?


People that believe the earth is flat.

The alternation of day and night is simply hinged on the movement of the sun overhead.

There seems to be a whole lot of misnomer for everything these days. So what do you call those who believe in ball-earth and hollow earth

aadoiza:

The alternation of day and night is simply hinged on the movement of the sun overhead.

Ok, the sun is closer to the earth?

There seems to be a whole lot of misnomer for everything these days. So what do you call those who believe in ball-earth and hollow earth

Ball earther, hollow earther.

tintingz:
Ok, the sun is closer to the earth?

Ball earther, hollow earther.

Yes, it is closer, and it's not the giant burning ball bogus theories would have you believe. The Sun is closer to and way smaller than the motionless Earth, and hovering in a somewhat circular direction over it.

aadoiza:

Yes, it is closer, and it's not the giant burning ball bogus theories would have you believe. The Sun is closer to and way smaller than the motionless Earth, and hovering in a somewhat circular direction over it.

Wow the sun is closer and it moves round the earth.

So the sun is not actually very hot and burning that it didn't dry up the oceans?

And I would like to know how season works, like summer is hot and winter is cold.

tintingz:
Wow the sun is closer and it moves round the earth.

So the sun is not actually very hot and burning that it didn't dry up the oceans?

And I would like to know how season works, like summer is hot and winter is cold.

You are surely a master in misunderstanding. No-one is saying the sun revolves around the earth. Abi hovering over in circle is the same as revolving around in your own dictionary And "the sun is not the giant burning ball" doe not mean it is not burning but rather, it's not a giant ball that's much bigger than the earth..

aadoiza:

You are surely a master in misunderstanding. No-one is saying the sun revolves around the earth. Abi hovering over in circle is the same as revolving around in your own dictionary

Ok, The sun is above the earth moving in circle, don't you think some part of the earth won't experience day? Do it yourself, draw a spherical earth and place the sun above the earth, see if the light will cover the half of the earth.

And secondly some regions on earth are always cold like the north and south pole, why is it? How does seasons work?

And "the sun is not the giant burning ball" doe not mean it is not burning but rather, it's not a giant ball that's much bigger than the earth..

If the sun is not bigger than the earth, how does it cover the half of a spherical earth? If it's closer why are the oceans not drying up?

I would like to know the degree of your sun to earth.

tintingz:
Ok, The sun is above the earth moving in circle, don't you think some part of the earth won't experience day? Do it yourself, draw a spherical earth and place the sun above the earth, see if the light will cover the half of the earth.

And secondly some regions on earth are always cold like the north and south pole, why is it? How does seasons work?

If the sun is not bigger than the earth, how does it cover the half of a spherical earth? If it's closer why are the oceans not drying up?

I would like to know the degree of your sun to earth.

You are still thinking the earth is a spinning spherical ball. I don't think I can go into how seasons work on a stationary earth, I'm lazy when it comes to digging up materials. However, your spinning ball-Earth is allegedly closest to the sun in January and farthest from it in July yet the former is much colder than the later.

If the Earth were a spinning ball in the middle of nowhere( spinning eastwards at 1000miles per hr) and your destination is westwards, your destination should come right to you if you hung up in the sky for a few hours but we know it's never gonna happen.

aadoiza:

You are still thinking the earth is a spinning spherical ball. I don't think I can go into how seasons work on a stationary earth, I'm lazy when it comes to digging up materials.

You're lazy to defend your claims yet you want me to start answering your questions?

However, your spinning ball-Earth is allegedly closest to the sun in January and farthest from it in July yet the former is much colder than the later.

Lord of Olympus.

The earth is tilted that the sun doesn't face directly to that region , reasons we have seasons.

You haven't explain how seasons works in your motionless world.

If the Earth were a spinning ball in the middle of nowhere( spinning eastwards at 1000miles per hr) and your destination is westwards, your destination should come right to you if you hung up in the sky for a few hours but we know it's never gonna happen.

This is ridiculous.

The plane moves along with the spinning of the earth reason we can't get to our destination by just staying motionless in the sky(we also don't feel the earth spinning because of this), we need speed to get to our destination.

tintingz:
You're lazy to defend your claims yet you want me to start answering your questions?

Lord of Olympus.

The earth is tilted that the sun doesn't face directly to that region , reasons we have seasons.

You haven't explain how seasons works in your motionless world.


This is ridiculous.

The plane moves along with the spinning of the earth reason we can't get to our destination by just staying motionless in the sky(we also don't feel the earth spinning because of this), we need speed to get to our destination.

There is no theoretical excuses to explain away the spinning ball-Earth that I haven't come across and they get even more ridiculous when ball-Earth believers staunchly recite those lines.

Imagine believing the atmosphere is being dragged along with the ball-Earth's movement and that they don't feel he earth's movement. I'm sure these people don't know what an atmosphere is. It takes incredible faith to believe you live on a ball spinning at 1000mile/hr and revolving around at 67,000mile per hr and then the whole solar system is spinning aimelessly at an incredible 200000mile/ (can't remember joor) and then galaxy..... And universe..... Everything is just spinning out of control with massive speed and we can't feel air displacement as a result, aah!! I give up.

If you can't see the nonsense called spinning ball-Earth there's no amount of answers on the real orientation of Earth that will satisfy you. The Earth is a physical ball and rolling, yet I can't see any curve, feel any movement but have to rely on NASA animated videoes to see realities. If you can't show me these attributes of the Earth without doctored images and videos count me out of your belief.

I only pointed out the hypocrisy of modern-day Muslims who would change the meanings of Allah's words to ass-lick science and guzzle bogus scientific theories. Allah also hints at the luminosity of the Moon, by the way, and how the stars are not distant Sun but adornments for the nearest heaven.

The point is I am sticking with Allah's words 1000% . No shaking.

aadoiza:

There is no theoretical excuses to explain away the spinning ball-Earth that I haven't come across and they get even more ridiculous when ball-Earth believers staunchly recite those lines.

Imagine believing the atmosphere is being dragged along with the ball-Earth's movement and that they don't feel he earth's movement. I'm sure these people don't know what an atmosphere is. It takes incredible faith to believe you live on a ball spinning at 1000mile/hr and revolving around at 67,000mile per hr and then the whole solar system is spinning aimelessly at an incredible 200000mile/ (can't remember joor) and then galaxy..... And universe..... Everything is just spinning out of control with massive speed and we can't feel air displacement as a result, aah!! I give up.

If you can't see the nonsense called spinning ball-Earth there's no amount of answers on the real orientation of Earth that will satisfy you. The Earth is a physical ball and rolling, yet I can't see any curve, feel any movement but have to rely on NASA animated videoes to see realities. If you can't show me these attributes of the Earth without doctored images and videos count me out of your belief.

I only pointed out the hypocrisy of modern-day Muslims who would change the meanings of Allah's words to ass-lick science and guzzle bogus scientific theories. Allah also hints at the luminosity of the Moon, by the way, and how the stars are not distant Sun but adornments for the nearest heaven.

The point is I am sticking with Allah's words 1000% . No shaking.

I had rather stick to NASA evidences than your mythical book.

I've asked you before are you a flat eather? Do you believe the earth is flat?

Are you not taught gravity and motion in school at all or better still read about them?

Again, we can't feel the earth spinning because we are moving along with the earth rotation and it remains constant.

Kindly answer the questions I asked in my previous post.

tintingz:


I had rather stick to NASA evidences than your mythical book.

I've asked you before are you a flat eather? Do you believe the earth is flat?

Are you not taught gravity and motion in school at all or better still read about them?

Again, we can't feel the earth spinning because we are moving along with the earth rotation and it remains constant.

Kindly answer the questions I asked in my previous post.

Oh my word. Gravity!!! The imaginary force pulling you to the Earth"s surface , please don't even go there for that's one sick delusion I try to avoid.
Now I'm happy , as we're not so different after all. You believe in NASA's CGI, I believe in Allah's revelations; so that makes us both believers.

The most important rule of ball-Earth theory: discard your senses of reason, touch, and seeing for speculations I.e. whatever that's reasonable, that you feel or see are actually not what they are, just believe what we tell you. For example: on the spinning ball-Earth the Moon allegedly moves from West to East but anyone with a quarter functional brain could see the Moon moves in the opposite direction. The Earth is motionless; no, it is spinning with a great speed but you can't feel the slightest air displacement as a result . We can't see any curvature: aah!! Of course you can't because it's spiritual . The Earth is, after all, small in circumference, so the physical spiritual curvature should not be that hidden

The thing is you need to use more of common sense than looking for what's not to see the world in actuality.

The Earth is definitely and certainly not a ball, it does appear to be a plane with different elevations though. I'm sure as eggs is eggs that the Earth is not moving and not a ball. Shikena