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Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness - Christianity Etc (53) - Nairaland

Nairaland ForumNairaland GeneralChristianity EtcDiscussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness (93918 Views)

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Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 11:06am On Jun 21, 2019
shadeyinka:
Proud Armedonia!
Full of arrogance and chest beating with nothing good to show for it!
By their fruit (which consists of JW Organisation's Skewed Doctrines) you shall know them?
'NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT?' huh

Well let me save your soul from blaspheming against God's holy spirit!

Throughout the whole world, people can SEE the ministry, activities and lifestyle of Jehovah's Witneses!
So when we say 'our God totally differs from yours' it's obvious and vivid to the point that you and all your folks need not crack your brains before saying so much about our beliefs, which has made us one global family of loving,joyous and peaceful worshipers! undecided
You all know that we're easygoing, law-abiding, loyal and faithful husbands, wives, colleagues, students and neighbours everywhere you can find us. Even if someone behaves indecently, you and your folks will confidently say 'this is NOT one of them' because you know that we have a governing body we held in high esteem above any worldly government. So you're not ignorant of the rules binding us together as one big family.

And do you now open your mouth to say
There is NOTHING TO SHOW FOR THE FAITH IN JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES? undecided

It would be OK if you had said 'what you and your folks are SHOWING us globally is not what we expected to see'

Please my friend don't blaspheme against God's holy spirit because Jesus{God's only begotten son} said those who do that WILL NEVER BE FORGIVEN! Matthew 12:32 embarassed
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 11:15am On Jun 21, 2019
@Shadeyinka,
Perhaps endeavour to read this before saying 'THERE IS NOTHING TO SHOW FOR THE FAITH OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!
TATIME:
Before atheists, all those who claim to believe in the God they can't see and are acting in line with certain order from an invisible being are ROBOTS!
There is only one way to justify the claim of so called believers :whatever instruction or rules guiding them must bear virtuous fruits that everyone can see! Matt 5:14-16
Throughout the world, there is no country where the worshipers of the true God can outnumber unbelievers because the whole world is under the control of Satan! 1Joh 5:19
And true faith in God is scarce. 2Thes 3:2
So how do we now solve the riddle in John's statement , when he said "we know we belong to God"? 1Joh 5:19
Who are the "WE" in quote?
Well they must form a nation that is not geographically situated in one location {Isai 2:1-4} they must be individuals from different races obeying certain rules that all other peoples can observe as they'll be of one single line of thought {1Corin 1:10} they will be hated by all other nations who are divided by their geographical locations {Matt 10:22, Joh 17:14-16} they will not allow the difference in locations to determine their love for fellow humans {Joh 13:34-35} anybody from any races will be viewed as their relation as long as they're of the same faith {Matt 12:46-50} even their blood relations will notice the strong bond between them and their fellow believers! Joh 17:26

Maximus, that is what being one of Jehovah's Witnesses entails!
So go ahead and work for the master of the harvest, he promised to be with us at all times! Matt 28:20
You can call us anything that comes to your mind, but never say there is nothing to show for their faith because even the BLIND can perceive that there is a global organization called Jehovah's Witnesses who are vilified NOT for evil deeds but for their unwavering FAITH! cheesy

Blasphemers against God's holy spirit will NEVER be forgiven! ~Jesus Luke 12:10 wink
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(op): 11:16am On Jun 21, 2019
Maximus69:
'NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT?' huh

Well let me save your soul from blaspheming against God's holy spirit!

Throughout the whole world, people can SEE the ministry, activities and lifestyle of Jehovah's Witneses!
So when we say 'our God totally differs from yours' it's obvious and vivid to the point that you and all your folks need not crack your brains before saying so much about our beliefs, which has made us one global family of loving,joyous and peaceful worshipers! undecided
You all know that we're easygoing, law-abiding, loyal and faithful husbands, wives, colleagues, students and neighbours everywhere you can find us. Even if someone behaves indecently, you and your folks will confidently say 'this is NOT one of them' because you know that we have a governing body we held in high esteem above any worldly government. So you're not ignorant of the rules binding us together as one big family.

And do you now open your mouth to say
There is NOTHING TO SHOW FOR THE FAITH IN JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES? undecided

It would be OK if you had said 'what you and your folks are SHOWING us globally is not what we expected to see'

Please my friend don't blaspheme against God's holy spirit because Jesus{God's only begotten son} said those who do that WILL NEVER BE FORGIVEN! Matthew 12:32 embarassed
Can't you live your life without boasting in your empty activities serving the JW organisation at the expense of Christ's teachings?
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(op): 11:19am On Jun 21, 2019
Maximus69:
@Shadeyinka,
Perhaps endeavour to read this before saying 'THERE IS NOTHING TO SHOW FOR THE FAITH OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES!

You can call us anything that comes to your mind, but never say there is nothing to show for their faith because even the BLIND can perceive that there is a global organization called Jehovah's Witnesses who are vilified NOT for evil deeds but for their unwavering FAITH! cheesy

Blasphemers against God's holy spirit will NEVER be forgiven! ~Jesus Luke 12:10 wink
You have even replaced the JW organisation with the Holy Spirit!?
I shake my head for you!
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 11:30am On Jun 21, 2019
shadeyinka:
Can't you live your life without boasting in your empty activities serving the JW organisation at the expense of Christ's teachings?
Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for,the evident DEMONSTRATION of realities not seen! Hebrew 11:1

You're seeing us that we belong to one happy global family of peace loving worshipers and you know we do have a governing body but what baffles you is NOT seeing how we relate to Jesus the one you claim to be serving! wink

Whatever you say against us is OK Sir!

But Please! Please!! Please!!! Don't lie! embarassed

You can say 'they have FAITH in their organization' but

don't say 'there is nothing to show for their FAITH'

That is openly LYING! John 8:44 wink
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 11:34am On Jun 21, 2019
shadeyinka:
You have even replaced the JW organisation with the Holy Spirit!?
I shake my head for you!
That is why we are saying 'if you don't agree with our FAITH, at least you're SEEING our WORKS. So you show us your FAITH in your WORKS and we will show you the WORKS made possible by our FAITH! James 2:18 wink
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(op): 11:35am On Jun 21, 2019
Maximus69:
Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for,the evident DEMONSTRATION of realities not seen! Hebrew 11:1

You're seeing us that we belong to one happy global family of peace loving worshipers and you know we do have a governing body but what baffles you is NOT seeing how we relate to Jesus the one you claim to be serving! wink

Whatever you say against us is OK Sir!

But Please! Please!! Please!!! Don't lie! embarassed

You can say 'they have FAITH in their organization' but

don't say 'there is nothing to show for their FAITH'

That is openly LYING! John 8:44 wink
What do you have to show except proselytes who are images of what the JW organisation want them to be rather than being an image of Christ!
2Tim 3:5: "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."

Maximus69:
That is why we are saying 'if you don't agree with our FAITH, at least you're SEEING our WORKS. So you show us your FAITH in your WORKS and we will show you the WORKS made possible by our FAITH! James 2:18 wink
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 11:52am On Jun 21, 2019
shadeyinka:
What do you have to show except proselytes who are images of what the JW organisation want them to be rather than being an image of Christ!
2Tim 3:5: "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."
Great! cheesy


So if you're 100% sure that Jehovah's Witnesses are 'having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof'
why don't you just 'turn away'? Or are you wiser than Apostle Paul who gave the admonition? cheesy

Because that was exactly what i tried to do after seeing you arguing with Muslims, and discovered you only had a form of godly devotion but proving false to it's powers, i quickly wanted to TURN AWAY before you started bragging over what you can't finish! wink
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by shadeyinka(op): 12:05pm On Jun 21, 2019
Maximus69:
Great! cheesy


So if you're 100% sure that Jehovah's Witnesses are 'having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof'
why don't you just 'turn away'? Or are you wiser than Apostle Paul who gave the admonition? cheesy

Because that was exactly what i tried to do after seeing you arguing with Muslims, and discovered you only had a form of godly devotion but proving false to it's powers, i quickly wanted to TURN AWAY before you started bragging over what you can't finish! wink
I had turned away from you several days ago (about two weeks): turning away doesn't mean becoming mute does it?
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody:
shadeyinka:
I had turned away from you several days ago (about two weeks): turning away doesn't mean becoming mute does it?
Hmmm,
That's more like it.
Now learn how to apply Bible counsel!

If Apostle Paul said 'TURN AWAY' he simply means SHUTDOWN the bridge of communication with such a person completely, because 'they have a form of godliness{sheeplike appearance} but denying the power of godliness{full of iniquity}'

If you continue discussing with such ones, their haughty habits may influence you into unchristian behaviours like :
Abusive speech,
Cursing,
Insulting,
Agitation and so on!
So instead of allowing such to infect you with unchristian habits, you need to shun them completely! 1Corinthians 15:33 compared to 2John 10,11

But when such ones insist they've got something tangible to say, then try to avoid what you shouldn't be found doing like abuses, insults, cursing and so on.

From the very moment you said 'we're on the same page' i knew immediately that you should be shunned, so to make you realise i'm doing so i said 'you need to learn some things' and instantly you kicked against that, before alBHAGDADI told you i'm one of JWs. Then you started pestering me for more talks, while i was already rounding up!

IF YOU'RE SO SURE THAT JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES HAVE A FORM OF GODLINESS AND DENYING THE POWER THEREOF, YOU SHOULD HAVE TURNED AWAY! according to what you're now quoting!

That was why i set the rules to block all of those unchristian traits and insisted we base the discussion on friendly presentations of our beliefs, the practical applications and it's benefits for adherents! wink

The only thing that's still holding you back now is that you're only making presentations of your beliefs {quoting the scriptures} which i also did, but the PRACTICAL APPLICATIONS and BENEFITS to those adhering to it you have failed to produce! wink
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 1:41pm On Jun 21, 2019
The Deity of Christ and the
New World Translation of the Jehovah's Witnesses








Note: verse references marked with a "*" indicate a clear reference to Christ's Deity in the NWT.



WHO IS GOD?

Jehovah

*Deuteronomy 6:4 – Jehovah our God is one Jehovah
*Deuteronomy 32:39 – no gods with Jehovah

No Other "Gods"

*Isaiah 44:6-8 – besides me there is no God. There is no Rock besides me.
*Isaiah 43:10 – Before me there was no God formed.
*Isaiah 45:5, 22 – with the exception of me there is no God.
*Isaiah 46:8-11 – no other God, nor anyone like me.

No Other "gods"

*Deuteronomy 32:39 – no gods with Jehovah
*Exodus 20:2-3 – must not have any other gods



ALL OTHER GODS OR gods ARE FALSE

Baal

*Judges 6:31 – Baal, God

Dagon

*Judges 16:23-24 – Dagon, god

Satan

*2 Corinthians 4:4 – Satan, god

Herod

*Acts 12:21-23 – Herod, a god



ARE THERE MANY GODS OR MANY gods?

*Psalm 96:4-5 – One True God by nature
*Galatians 4:8 – those who by nature are not gods.
*1 Corinthians 8:4-5 – One God in 8:4. Verse 8:5 is referring to idols who by nature are not gods, as seen in Galatians 4:8

This helps us understand that being God is much more than a title or a name. It is the very nature of the being so described as God. God is God because of who he is, not because people call him God.
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 1:42pm On Jun 21, 2019
WHO IS LORD?

God

*Acts 17:24 – God, Lord of heaven and earth
*Ephesians 4:5-6 – One Lord... one God and Father
*Acts 4:24 – God... Sovereign Lord
*Acts 17:24 – God... Lord of Heaven and Earth

Jehovah

*Deuteronomy 10:17 – Jehovah is Lord of lords
*1Timothy 6:15 – Jehovah is Lord of lords

Jesus

*1 Corinthians 8:6 – one Lord, Jesus Christ
*Jude 4 – our only Owner and Lord, Jesus Christ
*Romans 10:9 – Jesus is Lord
*Revelation 17:14, 19:16 – Jesus is King of Kings and Lord of lords.
*Luke 2:11 – there was born to you today a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

This verse (Luke 2:11) shows that Jesus was born Lord, not that he became Lord later.



HOW MANY LORDS ARE THERE?

One Lord

*Ephesians 4:5-6 – One Lord... one God and Father
*1 Corinthians 8:6 – one Lord, Jesus Christ
*Jude 4 – our only Owner and Lord, Jesus Christ
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 1:44pm On Jun 21, 2019
WHO IS SAVIOR?

God

*Titus 1:3 – Our Savior, God
*Titus 3:4 – Our Savior, God
*1 Timothy 1:1 – God, our Savior
*2 Samuel 22:3 – God my Savior
*Psalm 7:10 – God, a Savior
*Psalm 17:7 – God, o Savior
*Psalm 106:21 – God their Savior
*Isaiah 43:3 – God your Savior
*Isaiah 45:15 – God of Israel, a Savior
*Luke 1:47 – God my Savior
*1 Timothy 2:3 – our Savior, God
*1 Timothy 4:10 – God, who is a Savior
*Titus 2:10 – our Savior, God
*Jude 25 – the only God our Savior

Jehovah Alone

*Isaiah 43:11 – I am Jehovah and besides me there is no savior
*Isaiah 45:21 – Jehovah alone is Savior
*Hosea 13:4 – No savior but Jehovah
*Isaiah 49:26 – I, Jehovah, am your Savior and Repurchaser
*Isaiah 60:16 – I, Jehovah, am your Savior and Repurchaser

Jesus

*Philippians 3:20 – we are eagerly waiting for a savior, the Lord Jesus Christ
Titus 2:13 – we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of [the] Savior of us, Jesus Christ.
NWT introduces [the] into the previous verse to obscure that Jesus is called God there.
*Titus 1:4 – God [the] Father and Christ Jesus our Savior
*Titus 3:6 – Jesus Christ our Savior
2 Peter 1:1 – our God and [the] Savior Jesus Christ.
NWT adds [the] to the previous verse to obscure the fact that Jesus is called God there.
*John 4:42 – the savior of the world
*Acts 5:31 – Chief Agent and Savior
*Acts 13:23 – a savior, Jesus
*Ephesians 5:23 – a savior of [this] body
*2 Timothy 1:10 – our Savior, Christ
*2 Peter 1:11 – the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ
*2 Peter 2:20 – the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ
*2 Peter 3:2 – Who is being spoken of here? Jehovah or Jesus?
*2 Peter 3:18 – our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ
*1 John 4:14 – the Father has sent forth his Son as Savior of the world
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 1:50pm On Jun 21, 2019
WHO IS OWNER AND LORD?

Jesus

*Jude 4 – our only Owner and Lord, Jesus Christ
*Ephesians 4:5-6 – one Lord, one faith. Who is the one Lord? Jehovah or Jesus?
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 1:51pm On Jun 21, 2019
WHO FORGIVES SINS?

God

*Mark 2:7 – God alone can forgive sin
*Luke 5:21 – God alone can forgive sin

Jesus

*Mark 2:5-7, 10 – Jesus forgives sin
*Luke 5:24 – Jesus forgives sin
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 1:52pm On Jun 21, 2019
WHO PURCHASED CHURCH WITH HIS OWN BLOOD?

God

Acts 20:28 – Why is [Son] in brackets? How can this be "understood" without being in the Greek text explicitly?
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 1:53pm On Jun 21, 2019
SAVED BY FAITH IN WHO?

Jesus

*Acts 4:12 – There is not another name under heaven by which we must be saved. Whose name is this?
*Acts 10:43 – everyone putting faith in him gets forgiveness of sins through his name. Who is "him?"
*John 1:12 – to them he gave authority to become God's children, because they were exercising faith in his name
*John 3:16 – everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life
*1 John 3:23 – this is his commandment, that we have faith in the name of his Son Jesus Christ
*1 John 5:13 – you may know that you have life everlasting, you who put your faith in the name of the Son of God
*Romans 3:19-26, 28 – man is declared righteous by faith in Jesus
*Romans 10:9 – declare that Jesus is Lord and exercise faith... for salvation
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 1:54pm On Jun 21, 2019
WHO CREATED ALL THINGS?

God

*Ephesians 3:9 – God, who created all things

Jehovah alone

*Isaiah 44:24 – I, Jehovah..., stretching out the heavens by myself. This does not allow for a "junior partner" in creation. Jehovah clearly states that He Himself created the heavens without the aid of anyone else.
*Isaiah 48:13 – My own hand laid the foundation of the earth and my own right hand extended out the heavens. This does not allow a "junior partner" in creation. See also Hebrews 3:1-4

Jesus

*John 1:1-3 – all things came into existence through him. If Jesus is a created being then he is a "thing". But this verse says all "things" came into existence through Jesus. This excludes Jesus from the realm of "things" and puts him in the class of being uncreated, eternal, not part of the created world.
Colossians 1:16 – by him all [other] things were created. What is [other]? How can that be "understood" if it isn't present in the original language?
Revelation 3:14 – arkhe = beginning Note: same arkhe applied to Jehovah in Revelation 21:5-7 – How is Jehovah the "beginning" as the WT demands that arkhe must be translated? [Should You Believe In The Trinity? p.14]
*Psalm 102:24-27– Who? Jehovah?
*Hebrews 1:10-12 – This is a direct quote of Psalm 102:24-27 and is applied to Jesus. See also Isaiah 44:24



Is Jesus a "master worker" with Jehovah in creation?

WT says yes from Proverbs 8:3. Proverbs 8 is a personification of Wisdom speaking in a feminine voice (which NWT does not accurately reflect even though WT has confessed of the speaker's feminine gender in Proverbs 8.) See Proverbs 7:4 and 9:4 for the gender of "wisdom" in Proverbs. Why did the NWT translate wisdom in chapter 8 as "it" instead of "she" as the original language indicates?
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 1:56pm On Jun 21, 2019
WHO IS FIRST AND LAST?

Jehovah

*Isaiah 44:6, 8 – Jehovah says I am the first and I am the last
*Isaiah 48:12 – Jehovah says I am the first and I am the last

Jesus

*Revelation 1:17-18 – I am the First and I am the Last, and the living one; and I became dead...
*Revelation 2:8 – the First and the Last, who became dead and came to life again
*Revelation 22:12-13, 20 – Look! I am coming quickly, ... I am the first and the last
*Revelation 22:16, 20 – I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to you... Yes; I am coming quickly.
*Revelation 4:8 – Holy is Jehovah God, the Almighty, who was, and who is, and who is coming.
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 1:57pm On Jun 21, 2019
WHO IS ALPHA AND OMEGA?

Jehovah

*Revelation 1:8 – Jehovah is the Alpha and Omega, the Almighty

Jesus

*Revelation 22:12-13 – Alpha and Omega = first and last. Who is this?
*Revelation 22:16 – Shows Jesus as speaking in vs. 12-13
*Revelation 1:12-18 – Who is the Son of man? Jesus. What does he call himself? First and Last. First and Last = Alpha and Omega = the Almighty. Jesus is Almighty God.
*Revelation 22:12-13 – Alpha and Omega is "coming." Is Jehovah "coming?"
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 1:57pm On Jun 21, 2019
SHOULD WE BOW BEFORE ANOTHER GOD OR god?

No

*Exodus 34:14 – Don't prostrate before another god.

Jesus

*Philippians 2:9-11 – Knees bend at the name of Jesus

Father

*Ephesians 3:14 – Knees bend before the Father



WHO RECEIVES WORSHIP?

God

Matthew 4:10 – Worship the Lord God only

Jesus

In all of these verses the NWT has replaced the word "worship" with "obeisance."
Matthew 2:2, 11 – Magi worship Christ
Matthew 14:33 – Disciples worship Jesus
Matthew 28:9 – Mary worships Jesus
Matthew 28:16-17 – The eleven worship Jesus
John 9:38 – The healed blind man worshipped Jesus
Hebrews 1:6 – All angels worship Jesus
Revelation 5:11-14 – Millions of angels worship Jesus

People worshipped other people or angels and were rebuked for it. See Revelation 19:10; 22:8-9; Acts 10:25



What is obeisance?

Watchtower defines it as follows, "used to designate the custom of prostrating oneself before a person..." (Reasoning, p.215) Applying the Watchtower's own definition of obeisance to the verses describing people giving obeisance to Jesus, we could say that they "prostrated themselves before a god" since Jesus is "a god" in Watchtower theology. This is a clear and logical conclusion to reach by following the Watchtower's own definition of obeisance and who they believe Jesus is. Upon reaching this conclusion we need to go immediately to the following verse.
*Exodus 34:14 – For you must not prostrate yourself to another god, because Jehovah, whose name is Jealous, he is a jealous God.

While the Watchtower attempts to draw the unwarranted conclusion that "obeisance" to Jesus is somehow different than worship, their own definition of obeisance leads them into clear and direct conflict with Exodus 34:14. Either Jesus is God or those rendering obeisance to him are guilty of "prostrating themselves before another god."

This refutes the Watchtower's claim that "obeisance" to Jesus is ok because it is not worship. The Watchtower has inadvertently admitted that worship is given to Jesus in the Reasoning book p. 214. The question is stated as follows, "Does the fact that worship is given to Jesus prove that he is God?"
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 1:59pm On Jun 21, 2019
JESUS NAME IS EXALTED IN NEW TESTAMENT

*Matthew 18:20 – where 2 or 3 are gathered together in my name
*Luke 10:17 – demons are made subject to us by use of your name
*Acts 16:18 – I order you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her
*Luke 24:47 – on the basis of his name repentance for forgiveness of sins would be preached
*John 1:12 – to them he gave authority to become God's children, because they were exercising faith in his name
*John 3:16 – everyone exercising faith in him
*Acts 10:43 – everyone putting faith in him gets forgiveness of sins through his name
*1 John 3:23 – this is his commandment, that we have faith in the name of his Son Jesus Christ
*1 John 5:13 – you may know that you have life everlasting, you who put your faith in the name of the Son of God
*Acts 4:12 – there is not another name under heaven... by which we must be saved
*John 14:13-14, 26 – whatever you ask in my name, I will do it
*Acts 3:16 – our faith in his name has made this man strong
*Acts 4:7-10, 30 – healing and signs come in the name of Jesus
*1 Corinthians 1:2 – with all who everywhere are calling upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ
*Ephesians 1:21 – far above every name named
*Philippians 2:9-11 – the name that is above every other name
*Acts 1:8 – you will be witnesses of me
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 1:59pm On Jun 21, 2019
WHO KNOWS MEN'S HEARTS?

Jehovah alone

*1 Kings 8:39 – Jehovah alone knows all men's hearts

Jesus

*Revelation 2:23 – Jesus searches the hearts of all men
*Matthew 9:4 – Jesus knew their thoughts
*Matthew 12:25 – Jesus knew their thoughts
*Luke 6:8 – Jesus knew their reasoning
*Luke 9:47 – Jesus knew the reasoning of their hearts
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 2:00pm On Jun 21, 2019
FULLNESS OF DEITY

Jesus

Colossians 2:8-9 – What does KIT say? Divine quality or Deity? What does "all" mean? What does "fullness" mean? Theotes vs. Theiotes or Essence vs. Quality. Theotes is "fullness" used here to describe Jesus, showing that the "essence of God dwells in him bodily." It isn't a question of him having divine qualities. Instead it shows that he is God in the flesh.
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 2:01pm On Jun 21, 2019
WHO IS THE SHEPHERD?

Jehovah

*Psalm 23:1 – Jehovah is my Shepherd
*Isaiah 40:10-11 – Jehovah is like a shepherd

Jesus

*John 10:11 – Jesus is the fine shepherd
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 2:02pm On Jun 21, 2019
WHO IS MIGHTY GOD?

Jehovah

*Isaiah 10:20-21 – the Mighty God, Jehovah
*Jeremiah 32:18 – the mighty one, Jehovah

Jesus

*Isaiah 9:6 – Jesus is Mighty God
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 2:03pm On Jun 21, 2019
IS JESUS GOD?

In all but the last verse of the following references the NWT mistranslates each one.

Titus 2:13
Hebrews 1:8
Psalm 45:6
2 Peter 1:1
1 John 5:20
*Isaiah 9:6 – Mighty God
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 2:04pm On Jun 21, 2019
IS JESUS JEHOVAH?

*Romans 10:9-13 – Publicly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that he was raised from the dead and you will be saved.
*Romans 10:9 – (Whose name are you calling on for salvation?)
*Romans 10:10 – With the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation. (What public declaration? That Jesus is Lord.)
*Romans 10:11 – None that rests his faith on him will be disappointed. (Who is "him?" He is the subject of verses 9 and 10, Jesus.)
*Romans 10:12 – One Lord, rich to those calling on him. (On who? Verse 9 identifies that we are to call on Jesus by name.)
*Romans 10:13 – For "everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved." (Return to verse 9 to see whose name must be called on to be saved. It is Jesus. What Paul was doing in vs. 9-13 was clearly explaining that Jesus is God based on OT verses about God (Joel 2:32) applied directly to Jesus. Verse 9 and verse 13 are references to the same profession that saves, precisely that Jesus is Lord. Verse 13 is identifying the same one to call on for salvation that is named in verse 9.)
*Ephesians 1:21 – Jesus' name above every name in this system and the system to come
*Acts 4:12 – Salvation in Jesus' name alone
*Philippians 2:9 – Jesus' name above every other name
*Exodus 34:12-15 – Jehovah's command not to prostrate before other gods. Note that Jehovah condemns little "g" gods here. If JWs were to bow before Jesus then according to their theology they would be bowing before a little "g" god. This would violate Jehovah's command. But Jehovah has said that at the name of Jesus every knee will bend. (Philippians 2:9-11) Would Jehovah command that people bend their knees to Jesus when he has expressly forbidden bowing before other gods?
*Ephesians 3:14 – compare with Philippians 2:9
*Isaiah 45:22-24 – for OT parallel of bowing to the Father that Paul was quoting in Philippians 2:9 – and applying to Jesus in saying that "every knee will bend down and every tongue will swear". It is a direct quote from the OT referring to Jehovah and is applied clearly and directly to Jesus. Paul definitely believed that Jesus is Jehovah.
Zechariah 14:3-5 with Matthew 25:31 and Acts 1:11-12 – Who is returning with the holy ones? Jesus or Jehovah?
Zechariah 14:5 with 1 Thessalonians 3:13
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 2:05pm On Jun 21, 2019
IS JESUS ALMIGHTY?

*Hebrews 1:3 – He sustains all things by the word of his power. Is this mighty or almighty? Could anything less than "all might" sustain "all things?"
*Revelation 4:8 – Jehovah God, who was and is and is to come, the Almighty. Who is coming? Jehovah or Jesus?
*Revelation 22:20 – Jesus is coming as identified in Revelation 4:8. Jesus is Almighty God.
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 2:06pm On Jun 21, 2019
IS JESUS OMNIPRESENT?

*Matthew 18:20 – Where 2 or 3 are gathered together in my name
*Matthew 28:20 – I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 2:06pm On Jun 21, 2019
DOES JESUS HAVE ALL AUTHORITY?

*Matthew 28:18 – all means all



WHAT IS HEADSHIP?

*1 Corinthians 11:3 – Headship, not quality of being. Is man a superior human in quality compared to woman? No. Therefore this verse cannot be teaching that Christ is inferior to the Father if it is not teaching that women are inferior to men. If it is teaching that Christ is inferior in quality to the Father, then language demands that the same inferiority of quality be applied to women, and we know that it cannot be.
Re: Discussion on Doctrine between a Christian and a Jehovah's Witness by Nobody: 2:07pm On Jun 21, 2019
WHAT DOES FIRSTBORN MEAN?

*Colossians 1:15 – Jesus is firstborn of all creation. Does this refer to order of creation or to the headship of Christ? The Greek word used is proto-tokos. There is a different Greek word that specifically means 'first created', proto-tiktos.
*Psalm 89:20-27 – David was not born first.
Also, who was Joseph's firstborn? See Genesis 41:50-52, Genesis 48:1-20, Psalm 89:27, and Jeremiah 31:7-9
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