₦airaland Forum

vexxy: I don't see a problem with the parents dedicating their child but I believe they should be older before baptism. Make sure they understand what's happening and give them a chance to decided whether it's something they wish to do or not.

So do you mean to say you are cool with your child if he/she grows up and decides not to get baptised (made Christian and cleased from Original sin)

Oracle: i dont
a child doesnt know anything
and just baptizing him would look kinda wierd
he has to be old enough to decide whether
he wants to be baptized.

So if he decides not to get baptised when he is grown it's cool with you right? So what happens to the verse, "teach a child the way he/she should go so that when he/she grows up, he/she will never depart from it?"

donnie:
I sure do. That is, if it is actually water baptism (complete immersion in water).

Whole households were baptized in the book of Acts and we were not told that children were left out.

Let me know what you believe and the reason for your belief.

why then did you leave your former church?

MiddleDimension:
why then did you leave your former church?

I wasn't born again. No one spoke about being born again of salvation there.
Besides, I believe it was a move a Yah.

donnie:
I wasn't born again. No one spoke about being born again of salvation there.
Besides, I believe it was a move a Yah.

ok, and its not like there is no ''light'' there, right?

is salvation talked to you now?

also, if an individual leaves Christ embassy now and tells you he is being called by god out of ce what would you say to him? there are people here who claim they left christ embassy because they don't talk about being born again, what do you say to those people?

MiddleDimension:
ok, and its not like there is no ''light'' there, right?

is salvation talked to you now?

also, if an individual leaves Christ embassy now and tells you he is being called by god out of ce what would you say to him? there are people here who claim they left christ embassy because they don't talk about being born again, what do you say to those people?

I can assure you that there will be other reasons why they left.

donnie:
I can assure you that there will be other reasons why they left.

are there also other reasons beside the ones you gave here, for your leaving the roman Church?

donnie:
I can assure you that there will be other reasons why they left.

were you baptised as an infant? did you get baptised again in your new assembly? does your new assembly recognize the baptism of infants?

MiddleDimension:
were you baptised as an infant? did you get baptized again in your new assembly? does your new assembly recognize the baptism of infants?

Yes i was "baptized" as an infant. I put it in quotes because it wasn't actually baptism, since the word baptize (Greek: Baptizo) means to "dip into".

However, if you must know, CE is not against infant baptism.

donnie:
Yes i was "baptized" as an infant. I put it in quotes because it wasn't actually baptism, since the word baptize (Greek: Baptizo) means to "dip into".

However, if you must know, CE is not against infant baptism.

but it is not always that the word ''baptizo'' is used in the bible that it means to deep, you know?

MiddleDimension:
but it is not always that the word ''baptizo'' is used in the bible that it means to deep, you know?

Baptizo...that's where the word "baptism" came from... To dip completely into.

donnie:
Baptizo...that's where the word "baptism" came from... To dip completely into.

i am not doubting the meaning of the word. i am only pointing it out that not always the word is used in the bible does it mean to deep completely. and i can show you were. in this case, it means ablution

mark 7:4

καὶ ἀπ’ ἀγορᾶς ἐὰν μὴ ῥαντίσωνται οὐκ ἐσθίουσιν, καὶ ἄλλα πολλά ἐστιν ἃ παρέλαβον κρατεῖν, βαπτισμοὺς ποτηρίων καὶ ξεστῶν καὶ χαλκίων,—

MiddleDimension:
i am not doubting the meaning of the word. i am only pointing it out that not always the word is used in the bible does it mean to deep completely. and i can show you were.

mark 7:4

καὶ ἀπ’ ἀγορᾶς ἐὰν μὴ ῥαντίσωνται οὐκ ἐσθίουσιν, καὶ ἄλλα πολλά ἐστιν ἃ παρέλαβον κρατεῖν, βαπτισμοὺς ποτηρίων καὶ ξεστῶν καὶ χαλκίων,—

kindly show... is that Greek or hebrew?

donnie:
kindly show... is that Greek or hebrew?

but you told me once you are studying greek and you could read the greek bible! and i thought you did science in school, can't you recognise ''lambda'', ''sigma'', ''ghama'', ''pi'', ''rho'', etc there? these are all greek letters. infact, greek and hebrew do not look alike at all! you clearly don't know greek.

and by the way, the word in this case means ''ablution'', like the muslims do. that's what the jews do when they return from the public place like the market.

MiddleDimension:
but you told me once you are studying greek and you could read the greek bible! and i thought you did science in school, can't you recognise ''lambda'', ''sigma'', ''ghama'', ''pi'', ''rho'', etc there? these are all greek letters. infact, greek and hebrew do not look alike at all! you clearly don't know greek.

and by the way, the word in this case means ''ablution'', like the muslims do. that's what the jews do when they return from the public place like the market.

You're wrong, forget all that your greek gymnastics. Those are special characters, you haven't done the transliteration. Its like me using tetragramation of Hebrew to prove a point to you. Shouldn't I translate first adding vowel sounds and so on?

The Jews were already familiar with the sprinkling or cleansing(ablution) of the old testament.

John the baptist buried people in the water, and that is the reason the crowds gathered; it was a spectacular sign... And the apostles continued in same manner.

donnie:
You're wrong, forget all that your greek gymnastics. Those are special characters, you haven't done the transliteration. Its like me using tetragramation of Hebrew to prove a point to you. Shouldn't I translate first adding vowel sounds and so on?

The Jews were already familiar with the sprinkling or cleansing(ablution) of the old testament.

John the baptist buried people in the water, and that is the reason the crowds gathered; it was a spectacular sign... And the apostles continued in same manner.

check it here
https://biblehub.com/text/mark/7-4.htm



◄ Mark 7:4 ►
Text Analysis
Go to Parallel Greek
Strong's Greek English Morphology
2532 [e] καὶ
kai and Conj
575 [e] ἀπ’
ap’ [on coming] from Prep
58 [e] ἀγορᾶς
agoras the market, N-GFS
1437 [e] ἐὰν
ean if Conj
3361 [e] μὴ
mē not Adv
907 [e] βαπτίσωνται*
baptisōntai they wash V-ASM-3P
3756 [e] οὐκ
ouk not Adv
2068 [e] ἐσθίουσιν,
esthiousin they eat; V-PIA-3P
2532 [e] καὶ
kai and Conj
243 [e] ἄλλα
alla other things Adj-NNP
4183 [e] πολλά
polla many Adj-NNP
1510 [e] ἐστιν
estin there are V-PIA-3S
3739 [e] ἃ
ha which RelPro-ANP
3880 [e] παρέλαβον
parelabon they received V-AIA-3P
2902 [e] κρατεῖν,
kratein [for them] to hold to — V-PNA
909 [e] βαπτισμοὺς
baptismous washings N-AMP
4221 [e] ποτηρίων
potēriōn of cups N-GNP
2532 [e] καὶ
kai and Conj
3582 [e] ξεστῶν
xestōn vessels N-GMP
2532 [e] καὶ
kai and Conj
5473 [e] χαλκίων,—
chalkiōn utensils N-GNP
2532 [e] ‹καὶ
kai and Conj
2825 [e] κλινῶν›
klinōn couches for dining. N-GFP

MiddleDimension:
check it here
https://biblehub.com/text/mark/7-4.htm



◄ Mark 7:4 ►

3361 [e] μὴ
mē not Adv
907 [e] βαπτίσωνται*
baptisōntai they wash V-ASM-3P
3756 [e] οὐκ
ouk not Adv
2068 [e] ἐσθίουσιν,

That's the word attached below... Baptizo.

Also take note of the Word "buried" in the scripture below... The "dipping into" signifies burial.

Romans 6:4
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The catholic church did so much by its own "authority" not necessarily trying to follow the scriptures like you are trying to fight for.

donnie:
That's the word attached below... Baptizo.

Also take note of the Word "buried" in the scripture below... The "dipping into" signifies burial.

Romans 6:4
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The catholic church did so much by its own "authority" not necessarily trying to follow the scriptures like you are trying to fight for.

my dear, the 'evidence' you brought up to support yourself also has ''ritual ablution'' there as one of the possible meaning of ''baptizo''. the verse i quoted there shows PLAINLY that the word ''baptizo'', when used in the bible, doesn't always mean ''to immerse'' because it is ridiculous to say that the jews ALWAYS deep themselves completely in water each time they came back from the market.

the only reason you don't agree with me yet is just because your pastor, Oyakhilome, who is to you, deputy chineke, has not backed it up! this same infant baptism wey you run commot for your papa church from na him you dey agree with now after you don ''see the light'', because your assistant olorun don dey talk am. the same doctrines he probably had gone against while growing up in assemblies of god! other doctrines like confession too, ''Christianity is not a religion but a manifestation of divine life of god in you'', sola fidei as opposed to sola scriptura, etc, he is beginning to understand them and beginning to teach them either implicitly or explicitly.

don't worry, shebi the assistant chineke don dey do mysticism? he is actually new to it. he will realize more and tell you and then you can up your understanding a bit.

the same scripture you refered to at the beginning about the entire household of cornelius being baptized possibly including the kids has been used many times by catholic apologists here on NL to back up their point. but of course, you didn't listen until of course, your assistant chineke says so.

anyway, as an atheist who has a Christian/Catholic past like you, i think i have a very very good understanding of what Christianity is and what it is not; and i can tell you that after listening to all the debates ( theological) amonh Christians, and having looked at all the evidence being used by each side of the divide, i can say that the Catholics are closer to the original teachings of Jesus much more than the others are. this is not a post to back them up. i am just being, i think, fair. you may disagree, you may say: oh, it's a lie, you are a Catholic pretending to be atheist. but well, that's your choice. i have my convinction and that's what it is.

@joagbaje @gombs @ubenedictus what's your take here?

donnie:
That's the word attached below... Baptizo.

Also take note of the Word "buried" in the scripture below... The "dipping into" signifies burial.

Romans 6:4
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The catholic church did so much by its own "authority" not necessarily trying to follow the scriptures like you are trying to fight for.

again, on whose authority did oyakhilome declear excathedra that masturbation is not a sin?

MiddleDimension:
again, on whose authority did oyakhilome declear excathedra that masturbation is not a sin?

He said masturbation "in itself" is not a sin... Meaning, it is the sinful thoughts accompanying the masturbation that defile a man.
In other words there may be cases, perhaps between a couple, or if required of a couple having infertility issues, where it may not be considered sin.

Look I am not here to defend Pastor Chris, that's not my purpose, 'cos I see you are frantically trying to fault the man or ministry.

When you're done with the merry-go-round, you can tell, so we can move on to even more interesting stuff which if we begin, you will see how much you've wasted your time chasing me around.

MiddleDimension:
my dear, the 'evidence' you brought up to support yourself also has ''ritual ablution'' there as one of the possible meaning of ''baptizo''. the verse i quoted there shows PLAINLY that the word ''baptizo'', when used in the bible, doesn't always mean ''to immerse'' because it is ridiculous to say that the jews ALWAYS deep themselves completely in water each time they came back from the market.

Where did I say the bolded? You and your assumptions, Terrible!

MiddleDimension:
anyway, as an atheist who has a Christian/Catholic past like you, i think i have a very very good understanding of what Christianity is and what it is not; and i can tell you that after listening to all the debates ( theological) amonh Christians, and having looked at all the evidence being used by each side of the divide, i can say that the Catholics are closer to the original teachings of Jesus much more than the others are. this is not a post to back them up. i am just being, i think, fair. you may disagree, you may say: oh, it's a lie, you are a Catholic pretending to be atheist. but well, that's your choice. i have my convinction and that's what it is.

@joagbaje @gombs @ubenedictus what's your take here?

You are proof that Atheists aren't satisfied in themselves. They have to have an argument with a religion to survive.

Like I said, there's a lot we can discuss, but not until you leave such prejudiced dispositions. Because you seem to think that only Atheist use their brains.

donnie:
He said masturbation "in itself" is not a sin... Meaning, it is the sinful thoughts accompanying the masturbation that defile a man.
In other words there may be cases, perhaps between a couple, or if required of a couple having infertility issues, where it may not be considered sin.

Look I am not here to defend Pastor Chris, that's not my purpose, 'cos I see you are frantically trying to fault the man or ministry.

When you're done with the merry-go-round, you can tell, so we can move on to even more interesting stuff which if we begin, you will see how much you've wasted your time chasing me around.

the guy who sent that message into the programme is obviously not married and he uses masturbation to deal with his urges and pastor chris responded specifically to that and told him he is worried about it because he thinks there is something wrong with it. and he also went on to tell him how the devil uses it to condemn etc. he was very clear with his words and the issue he was addressing.

i am not trying to fault him and his Ministry. i told you before why i prefer to engage you guys rather than redeem, winners etc members. i am sure you still remember? with them, i really have nothing to discuss.

donnie:
Where did I say the bolded? You and your assumptions, Terrible!
You are proof that Atheists aren't satisfied in themselves. They have to have an argument with a religion to survive.

Like I said, there's a lot we can discuss, but not until you leave such prejudiced dispositions. Because you seem to think that only Atheist use their brains.

i did not say you said the bolded. if you understood that post properly, you would realize that the bolded is my thought as regards the scripture i quoted.

of course we are satisfied in ourselves. i do not have to have an argument with you to survive.

please point out my prejudiced disposition so that i can leave it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A49UVx2maSE

i just felt i should post this here and ask you if you think he answered the question here, or that he made a good point qith the example he gave about stealing food and eating it?