Therefore if any man be in CHRIST he is a new creation the old man is gone, see all is NEW. 2 Corinthians 5v 17 - 21.

Note these: Romans 4:25,  Romans 5: 1

Please o, e jor, Abegi, this is my new bone of contention. What do you mean by Justified?

Pastor AIO:

Please o, e jor, Abegi, this is my new bone of contention. What do you mean by Justified?

You are accounted righteous by God and seen by Him as though you never committed a sin,on believing in Jesus.Your faith is counted for righteousness.

To cut a long story short; you are saveD!

To be justified means not guilty, no longer condemned, that is why we are saved by grace through faith. Romans 8:1 says: there is therefore NOW no condemnation to them that are in CHRIST, The question is, are you in Him! In Romans5:1, Being justified by faith, What faith ? Faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, Paul in Galatians chapter 2v20 declares, The life I now live I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me. In Romans 8:30, Paul by special revelation granted him say, Those He predestined, He called, then justified, even glorified. Pastor, this is a truth you must accept, these are some of the proofs to let you know that Christianity is not a religion, but the life of God in man, or put simply, divinity in humanity, are you born again, saved then you are the justified, the glorified, praise God.

Yay!!! Glad to hear that. So since I'm born again now, I can go on and kill a billion men, sleep with every girl I come across etc, And I'll still make it to heaven.

5solas:

You are accounted righteous by God and seen by Him as though you never committed a sin,on believing in Jesus.Your faith is counted for righteousness.

To cut a long story short; you are saveD!

Please o, explanation me some more.  Is it that you are still sinful but you are treated AS IF you never committed a sin?  Or is it that you cease to be sinful?  

Since you have been Justified, my dear 5solas, have you ceased to be sinful?  

I asked you for the meaning of Justified and you said that it means to be accounted Righteous.  Forgive me for thinking that you are just using these words without any awareness of what they mean, but do you realise that Justice and Righteousness in the bible are exactly the same word.  
I asked you what you understand by Tsedeq and your response is that it means to be accounted tsedeq by God.  You haven't told me anything.  

How would you explain the meaning of the Greek word Dikaios in English?  

When you say that you are saved, please what exactly are you saved from?

Here is some help on righteousness and justification.

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Tzedek may refer to:

   * The Hebrew word for righteousness and justice, and a West Semitic theonym, see Tzadik

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzedek

Justice and Righteousness
We tend to think of 'justice' as something public, and often think of it as retribution. When we say "I want justice", we often mean "I want my rights (often from another, or for the legal system to give us redress)". On the other hand, we tend to think of 'righteousness', if we think of it at all, as a property of an individual (e.g. the old singing group 'The Righteous Brothers'), and usually of the private sphere.

But, in the Bible they are the same word, both in the Old Testament and the New Testament. One Hebrew and one Greek word is used for both, and seldom translated into any other word.

Hebrew/Greek word Tr. as 'Justice' Tr. as 'Righteousness' Tr. as other
H: tsedeq 102 394 14
Other Hebrew words 5 11
Gk: dikaios 38 135 7
Other Greek words 0 1

What do these figures tell us? First, it implies very strongly that, to both Hebrew and N.T. Greek thinking justice and righteousness are the same thing. Second, it implies that our conception of 'justice' and 'righteousness', by which we give them different meanings, is likely to be wrong.

So what is the real meaning of both words? I like the definition of 'justice' given by Paul Marshall:

   Justice is: right relationships among all things in the created order of things.

Now, that definition is different from both of our conceptions above. Our conventional conception of righteousness is centred on an entity (a human being); Marshall's conception is centred on relationships. Our conventional conception of justice is centred on a legal framework, whereas Marshall's conception is centred on our 'dwelling' amongst all created things. Our conventional conception of justice is of a balancing act; Marshall's conception is of quality of relationship.

http://www.basden.demon.co.uk/xn/tsedeq.html

Tsammy:

To be justified means not guilty, no longer condemned, that is why we are saved by grace through faith. Romans 8:1 says: there is therefore NOW no condemnation to them that are in CHRIST, The question is, are you in Him! In Romans5:1, Being justified by faith, What faith ? Faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, Paul in Galatians chapter 2v20 declares, The life I now live I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me. In Romans 8:30, Paul by special revelation granted him say, Those He predestined, He called, then justified, even glorified. Pastor, this is a truth you must accept, these are some of the proofs to let you know that Christianity is not a religion, but the life of God in man, or put simply, divinity in humanity, are you born again, saved then you are the justified, the glorified, praise God.

More and more and more words jumbled together formulaically, yet I don't get the sense that you are aware of what you're actually saying.

Justified
Guilt
Condemned
Saved
Grace
Faith.

e jor, What was making you guilty before? And now that you are justified how does that play in your life? What have you been saved from and has that thing that you've been saved from ceased to exist in your life?

Yay!!! Glad to hear that. So since I'm born again now, I can go on and kill a billion men, sleep with every girl I come across etc, And I'll still make it to heaven.
[quote][/quote]

By the very words that you write shows you are far from being born again, how can you be born again to kill a billion men, sleep with every girl, then what spirit are you born of, you want to go back to the very things that are paid for by the blood of Jesus, going back to the vomits, didn't you read what Paul said, shall we continue in sin that grace may abound, the reply, God FORBID. So you want to continue in sin, then you were not born again.

To be justified does not give you the liberty to go and be sinning, Paul write in Galatians 5:1, stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us (you) free and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage, going to kill, sleep with every girl is yoke of bondage. If you are born again, you've been given power to live above sin, Paul declared sin shall have no dominion over you - Romans 6:14. I pray for you in the name of Jesus that this truth abide in your spirit and control your body, so that you will live the God life, Amen.

@Tsammy

By the very words that you write shows you are far from being born again, how can you be born again to kill a billion men, sleep with every girl, then what spirit are you born of, you want to go back to the very things that are paid for by the blood of Jesus, going back to the vomits, didn't you read what Paul said, shall we continue in sin that grace may abound, the reply, God FORBID. So you want to continue in sin, then you were not born again.

To be justified does not give you the liberty to go and be sinning, Paul write in Galatians 5:1, stand fast in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us (you) free and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage, going to kill, sleep with every girl is yoke of bondage. If you are born again, you've been given power to live above sin, Paul declared sin shall have no dominion over you - Romans 6:14. I pray for you in the name of Jesus that this truth abide in your spirit and control your body, so that you will live the God life, Amen.

Thanks for this lovely post. It reminds me of what Paul also said on the subject in Romans 3:31:

''Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid:yea,we establish the law''.--KJV

''Well then, if we are saved by faith, does this mean that we no longer need obey God's laws? Just the opposite! In fact, only when we trust Jesus can we truly obey him''.--TLB

If I believe in Jesus as my personal Lord and saviour. Even if I backslide and kill 1billion men and sex all the girls I come across, am I not destined for heaven?

5solas:

@Tsammy

Thanks for this lovely post. It reminds me of what Paul also said on the subject in Romans 3:31:

''Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid:yea,we establish the law''.--KJV

''Well then, if we are saved by faith, does this mean that we no longer need obey God's laws? Just the opposite! In fact, only when we trust Jesus can we truly obey him''.--TLB

So now that you 'trust Jesus' can you tell us that you truly obey him and keep all his laws. Because we must judge a tree by it's fruit.

@italo all you have to do is give yourself to Jesus, and of course the doors of heaven stand ajar.

@Tsammy, like the order Jesus gave his disciples.
Luke 19:27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.'"

@Tsammy "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one." Luke 22:36

If only one person will answer my question directly. More like a 'yes' or 'no'.

5sola and tsammy, what you have posted is too deep for just any person on nl.each time i felt like writing on the above, i couldn't. who are your mentors? you are touching the real GOSPEL which are not preached on nl nor on the pulpit ie d too-good-to-be-true-news.

the Questions you see asked was wat was asked of paul in romans, and i observed that if such questions are not asked, such 'gospel' preached IS not too-good-to-be-true-news. so you are blessed!

do you know that the word 'Sin' in romans is 46times is a noun and only 2times is it a verb? achristian. could this misunderstanding might have given us wrong interpretation of romans

it is true there is lake of fire but that is not the GOSPEL! yet we hear people saying that preachin hell is the gospel?

it is true there is lake of fire but that is not the GOSPEL! yet we hear people saying that preachin hell is the gospel?

it is true there is lake of fire but that is not the GOSPEL! yet we hear people saying that preachin hell is the gospel?

What's happening here? What are they actually talking about?

italo:

What's happening here? What are they actually talking about?

Their name is Legion for they are many. You probably think that is just one guy talking to himself. Not so. There is a whole symposium discussion going on there.

unphilaz:

5sola and tsammy, what you have posted is too deep for just any person on nl.each time i felt like writing on the above, i couldn't. who are your mentors? you are touching the real GOSPEL which are not preached on nl nor on the pulpit ie d too-good-to-be-true-news.

Thanks. Howeve, there are others who still subscribe to and teach the REAL GOSPEL.

@Unphilaz
As to my mentors, my primary mentor is The LIving Bible. I read it on conversion and saw so many things so good that I doubted they were true and had to continually cross-check with the KJV. I had to read the epistles to the Romans,Galatians and Hebrews in particular to distinguish the roles of FAITH and WORKS since The Bible clearly says WORKS do not justify. About this time, by God's ordination, I saw two very RARE books on two different occasion at a bookstore by a post-office. The first was, Faith and Works: Cranmer and Hooker On Justification by Philip E Hughes and The Great Debate: Calvinism, Arminianism and Salvation by Alan Sell. I repeatedly read the former book until one day the truth it was teaching finally hit me, the same truth I had been getting from The Bible, SALVATION IS NOT DESERVED. This truth I will cherish, apply,teach,defend;TILL DEATH. By this time I had gotten the conviction that salvation could not be lost and from the latter book I got the theological name for this belief - Calvinism. And when I goggled it , I was enthralled by the numbers of articles on the subject and immediately clicked on , A Defence Of Calvinism by Charles H. Spurgeon and promply read it to the refreshing of my soul. Since then I have read a lot of articles on Calvinism and the converse Arminianism and have been greatly edified by them. Let me state here that Arminianism, which teaches that a believer can LOSE salvation is from the PIT OF HELL.
More later,please.

I see that the Legion still do not want to answer any questions as to what they understand by Justification, Righteousness, Salvation . . . etc.

5solas:
I repeatedly read the former book until one day the truth it was teaching finally hit me, the same truth I had been getting from The Bible, SALVATION IS NOT DESERVED. This truth I will cherish, apply,teach,defend;TILL DEATH. By this time I had gotten the conviction that salvation could not be lost and from the latter book I got the theological name for this belief - Calvinism.

Let me state here that Arminianism, which teaches that a believer can LOSE salvation is from the PIT OF HELL.
More later,please.

You will hold onto to your understanding of Salvation TILL DEATH.

Let me ask you.  Who Dies?  From the beginning was death not the product of Sin.  If indeed you are considered Righteous by God, in spite of all your Sins, then why do you still Die?  If you die then what exactly is it that you've been saved from.  What does Salvation mean to you, cos I get the sense that you are only blowing that word like hot air from your mouth but it doesn't actually mean anything to you.

Are the Wages of Sin not Death?

Did God not promise that the Soul that Sins shall Die?  Only the Righteous shall live. So how are you going to be Righteous in God's eyes and yet Die?

Ezekiel 18

4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

20[b]The soul that sinneth, it shall die.[/b] The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

In fact take the whole of Ezekiel 18 and study it well well:

[b]
<< Ezekiel 18 >>
King James Version
1The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying,

2What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?

3As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel. 4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

5But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right, 6And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman, 7And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the Unclad with a garment; 8He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man, 9Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.

10If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things, 11And that doeth not any of those duties, but even hath eaten upon the mountains, and defiled his neighbour's wife, 12Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination, 13Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.

14Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like, 15That hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, hath not defiled his neighbour's wife, 16Neither hath oppressed any, hath not withholden the pledge, neither hath spoiled by violence, but hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the Unclad with a garment, 17That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live. 18As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, spoiled his brother by violence, and did that which is not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his iniquity.

19Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live. 20The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
[size=17pt]
21But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. [/size]22All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. 23Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

[size=17pt]24But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.[/size] 25Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal? 26When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. 27Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. 28Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 29Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

30Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. 31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye. [/b]

Pastor AIO:

I see that the Legion still do not want to answer any questions as to what they understand by Justification, Righteousness, Salvation . . . etc.

^
My two cents worth

Justification -  Just-as-if-havent-sinned  . . .

Righteousness - Nike. Doing the Right thing, at Right time and still be Right with God. Impossible, hence the Righteousness of God in Christ

Salvation - Salvaged from eternal damnation through the redeeming power of the blood of Jesus

PS: Death the product of sin?

In case the english of KJVis too mush for some people:



<< Ezekiel 18 >>
New American Standard Bible
God Deals Justly with Individuals

1Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,

2“What do you mean by using this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying,
‘The fathers eat the sour grapes,
But the children’s teeth are set on edge’?

3“As I live,” declares the Lord GOD, “you are surely not going to use this proverb in Israel anymore. 4“Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die.

5“But if a man is righteous and practices justice and righteousness, 6and does not eat at the mountain shrines or lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, or defile his neighbor’s wife or approach a woman during her menstrual period— 7if a man does not oppress anyone, but restores to the debtor his pledge, does not commit robbery, but gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with clothing, 8if he does not lend money on interest or take increase, if he keeps his hand from iniquity and executes true justice between man and man, 9if he walks in My statutes and My ordinances so as to deal faithfully—he is righteous and will surely live,” declares the Lord GOD.

10“Then he may have a violent son who sheds blood and who does any of these things to a brother 11(though he himself did not do any of these things), that is, he even eats at the mountain shrines, and defiles his neighbor’s wife, 12oppresses the poor and needy, commits robbery, does not restore a pledge, but lifts up his eyes to the idols and commits abomination, 13he lends money on interest and takes increase; will he live? He will not live! He has committed all these abominations, he will surely be put to death; his blood will be on his own head.

14“Now behold, he has a son who has observed all his father’s sins which he committed, and observing does not do likewise. 15“He does not eat at the mountain shrines or lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, or defile his neighbor’s wife, 16or oppress anyone, or retain a pledge, or commit robbery, but he gives his bread to the hungry and covers the naked with clothing, 17he keeps his hand from the poor, does not take interest or increase, but executes My ordinances, and walks in My statutes; he will not die for his father’s iniquity, he will surely live. 18“As for his father, because he practiced extortion, robbed his brother and did what was not good among his people, behold, he will die for his iniquity.

19“Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity?’ When the son has practiced justice and righteousness and has observed all My statutes and done them, he shall surely live. 20“The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.

[size=14pt]21“But if the wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed and observes all My statutes and practices justice and righteousness, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 22“All his transgressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him; because of his righteousness which he has practiced, he will live. [/size]23“Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked,” declares the Lord GOD, “rather than that he should turn from his ways and live?

24“But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die. 25“Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not right.’ Hear now, O house of Israel! Is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right? 26“When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and dies because of it, for his iniquity which he has committed he will die. 27“Again, when a wicked man turns away from his wickedness which he has committed and practices justice and righteousness, he will save his life. 28“Because he considered and turned away from all his transgressions which he had committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 29“But the house of Israel says, ‘The way of the Lord is not right.’ Are My ways not right, O house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not right?

30“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, each according to his conduct,” declares the Lord GOD. “Repent and turn away from all your transgressions, so that iniquity may not become a stumbling block to you. 31“Cast away from you all your transgressions which you have committed and make yourselves a new heart and a new spirit! For why will you die, O house of Israel? 32“For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies,” declares the Lord GOD. “Therefore, repent and live.”

Daiquiri:

^
My two cents worth

Justification -  Just-as-if-havent-sinned  . . .

Righteousness - Nike. Doing the Right thing, at Right time and still be Right with God. Impossible, hence the Righteousness of God in Christ

Salvation - Salvaged from eternal damnation through the redeeming power of the blood of Jesus

PS: Death the product of sin?

My friend, that is not the meaning of justification or Justice. The Hebrew word Tsedeq is sometimes translated in some places as Justice and then in other places it is translated as Righteousness. These two words Justice and Righteousness are exactly the same word in Hebrew.

And it is the same in Greek. The word is Dikaios. It is sometimes translated as Justice and other times as Righteousness. That is why translations can be very confusing. It makes it seems as if there are 2 different words meaning two different things but that is not true.

To be Justified is to be made Just. In other words to be made Righteous. It doesn't mean that you are still unrighteous but God is going to pretend as if you are righteous. It means you are made Righteous and the result of this will show itself in your behaviour.

You are absolutely right in saying that Righteousness means doing the Right thing at the Right Time which is also being Right with God. You cannot be right with God if you are not doing the right thing.

And you are right when you say that that Righteousness of God is in Christ.
HOWEVER, you are wrong when you say that it is impossible. That it is possible is the whole point of Christianity. We can be IN CHRIST. To be in Christ is to be Righteous. It doesn't mean that God pretends we are righteous while we go on being black as Sin. No, We become righteous. And subsequently we live. And this becoming Righteous is Salvation.

Daiquiri:

PS: Death the product of sin?

Does this shock you? Why?

Pastor AIO:

Does this shock you? Why?

^
Considering its you and am not sure how wet your feet are or how far you pushed out the boat hmm . . . I'll withdraw that maneuver

because technically writing and in tow with Adam that is correct

Pastor AIO:

My friend, that is not the meaning of justification or Justice. The Hebrew word Tsedeq is sometimes translated in some places as Justice and then in other places it is translated as Righteousness. These two words Justice and Righteousness are exactly the same word in Hebrew.

And it is the same in Greek. The word is Dikaios. It is sometimes translated as Justice and other times as Righteousness. That is why translations can be very confusing. It makes it seems as if there are 2 different words meaning two different things but that is not true.

To be Justified is to be made Just. In other words to be made Righteous. It doesn't mean that you are still unrighteous but God is going to pretend as if you are righteous. It means you are made Righteous and the result of this will show itself in your behaviour.

You are absolutely right in saying that Righteousness means doing the Right thing at the Right Time which is also being Right with God. You cannot be right with God if you are not doing the right thing.

And you are right when you say that that Righteousness of God is in Christ.
HOWEVER, you are wrong when you say that it is impossible. That it is possible is the whole point of Christianity. We can be IN CHRIST. To be in Christ is to be Righteous. It doesn't mean that God pretends we are righteous while we go on being black as Sin. No, We become righteous. And subsequently we live. And this becoming Righteous is Salvation.

They are two types of righteousness-the righteousness we have of ourselves (this is inherent) and that we receive of God, for Christ's sake(this is imputed). On believing in Jesus the latter is imputed to the believer and God regards him as righteous. The whole point of the whole Bible is that we cannot be right with God (justified before Him) by doing what the law requires; it made grace,Christ's coming,death, burial,resurrection necessary.It made righeousness by imputation necessary.Read Philippians 3:3-9, see how Paul denounces the righteousness gotten by the law and esteem it and all things about /of himself as dung . And to this end ' that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having my own righteousness,which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:'vs 9. Know this , the righteousness of God by faith is OF GOD and is the RIGHTEOUSNESS IMPUTED , while that which comes from keeping the law (from works) is of SELF and is in truth SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS.
I hope I have done some clarification.