₦airaland Forum

Barristter07:
Point out what exactly I do not understand .

A father and son are equal by human nature they shared

ok you lots has already gotten your a answers. The problem is you dont agree with it.
Trinity is never mean having different gods, it only means God existence in three distinct persons.

Are the humans who are sharers of Gods Divine nature not then automatically equal with God by your logic ?? [/b]

the problem is that you pulled out words out of context. 2 Peter 1:4. Words can only be understood when placed in their proper place.

Show me what I don't understand.

If Jesus possess all the capacity of the Almighty, why didn't he know the day and hour ? ( The human nature reasoning is dead on arrival as you can't explain why your God the holy spirit didn't know, limited By human nature too ?? ! ? )

you refusing to accept biblical truth doesnt mean it is dead.
Jesus said out man, angels, the son and father only the father knows the time of his coming. Note he didnt mention the holy Spirit.

blueAgent:
Your Bible knowledge is impressive.
As a man he was less than God and as a God he was fully God.

So who beget God?

what do you mean by beget?

Janosky:
Greek monogenes is used in the conext of parents (dad/mom) and only child relationship.
The bone stuck in the throat of Trinitarians is:
1) how did parents /only child relationship arise?
Birth (humans) /Creation (by God. Psalms 90:2).
2)
Is parents /only child, a relationship of two equals?
3).
Heb11:17-19. Isaac is Abraham's begotten son, does it mean Isaac is not his son,(same applies to Jesus ?

There problem begins when they failed to achieve one single thing out of all that Jesus foretold will help observers identify true Christians!

They can't preach effectively
They can't unite their members
They can't curb materialism
They can't curb greed
They can't curb vengeance

There is no single thing Jesus taught/prayed for that is evident in their form of worship.

So to console themselves, they put up blind arguments!

My Bible student {a Muslim} related his experience with a so called Born again neighbour who have been disturbing him after noticing he is responding to JWs.

Muslim ~if i remain a Muslim till death, what will happen to me?

Churchgoer ~ you will go to hellfire.

Muslim ~But how come you never spoke to me all these while?

Churchgoer ~ I thought you won't listen.

Muslim ~What gives you the courage now to come talking to me about religion?

Churchgoer ~ (silent)

Muslim ~i guess you don't have the boldness to approach people one on one, so try learn how to do so from Jehovah's Witnesses!

When he related the experience to me, i told him "you're already bearing Witness to him since he can't distinguish between truth and falsehood" !

Barristter07:
The angels are sons of God too, Son of God is God, agree ?

No. Angels are not called the begotten Sons o God

blueAgent:
Gosh you are amazing. no wonder you cannot reason properly.

Is it a woman that was made or brought forth before the world was made?

You see when you don't rely on the Bible for answers you stumble over yourself as you just did.

Quietly read and comprehend.
Proverbs 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: 8:26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth: 8:28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: 8:29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: 8:30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; 8:31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

Proverbs 8:1-3 Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?
She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.
She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.

blueAgent:
God calls himself "I Am that I Am " meaning he cannot change who he is in power and authority he cannot become servant or son.

Jesus called himself the I Am so many times.
I Am is refers to the unchangeable nature of God not his abiblity to become aything he want.

@ bolded you dont know what you are saying.
If God choose to serve himself how does it mean his nature changed.

blueAgent:
Using your so called Greek translations will still not solve your problem for example.

Even if we change the words of that Bible verse to
Unique or special Son as your monogenes definition claims.
it still does not make Jesus equal with God becos it only told us the kind of Son Jesus is , which is a unique or special son, but it did not change the fact that God called Jesus his Son.


Here is the definition.

Monogenes has two primary definitions, "pertaining to being
the only one of its kind within a specific relationship" and
"pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in
kind". [1] Thus monogenēs (μονογενής) may be used both as
an adjective monogenēs pais , meaning unique and special. [2]
Its Greek meaning is often applied to mean "one of a kind, one
and only". Monogenēs may be used as an adjective . For
example, monogenēs pais means only child, only legitimate
child or special child. Monogenēs may also be used on its
own as a noun. For example, o monogenēs means "the only
one", or "the only legitimate child". [3]
The word is used in Hebrews 11:17-19 to describe Isaac , the
son of Abraham. However, Isaac was not the only-begotten

lol read what you posted carefully.
Is this not what I have been saying.
Begotten is used to decribe a special relationship it does not mean created.

solite3:
ok you lots has already gotten your a answers. The problem is you dont agree with it.
Trinity is never mean having different gods, it only means God existence in three distinct persons.


the problem is that you pulled out words out of context. 2 Peter 1:4. Words can only be understood when placed in their proper place.

Explain the proper place please ? And how it proved they won't have DIVINE NATURE ?

you refusing to accept biblical truth doesnt mean it is dead.
Jesus said out man, angels, the son and father only the father knows the time of his coming. Note he didnt mention the holy Spirit.

Nobody knows , ONLY the Father .

Emphasis on " NOBODY KNOWS " .

Solite3 , your head need reset.

solite3:
No. Angels are not called the begotten Sons o God

Son of man is man , son of God is ?

*

Janosky:
It's very obvious that Greek 'theotes' meaning divine nature has no correlation with Godhead.
The word "Godhead" was coined with the dubious intent to claim that God is 3 "heads" in one God.

oh duh most lying pharisee™ deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ

even a halfwit can see the Godhead = the Divinity

Godhead
θεότης
theotēs
theh-ot'-ace
divinity (abstractly): - godhead.


Col 2:9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

=

Col 2:9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Divinity bodily.

but you dunderhead false jw's now believe in "3 heads in one god", laughing

solite3:
No. Angels are not called the begotten Sons o God

solite3:
lol read what you posted carefully.
Is this not what I have been saying.
Begotten is used to decribe a special relationship it does not mean created.

You claimed that Heb1:5 "Jesus is begotten, wasn't created. he is Almighty God".
Based on your faulty logic, Hebr 11:17-19, Isaac is begotten, doesn't mean Isaac was born.(No cherry picking. "Only begotten applies to both Isaac & Jesus). Therefore, Isaac is Abraham. You dey see am?[/quote]

[quote author=johnw47 post=81899185

Godhead
θεότης
theotēs
theh-ot'-ace
divinity (abstractly): - godhead.


Col 2:9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

=

Col 2:9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Divinity bodily.[/quote]Johnw FRAUD.
Greek theotes" = divinity, divine nature". NOT Godhead.
"Godhead" is ALIEN to koine Greek.

The crooked Pharisee had to remove any reference to KJV in his definition quote.
**#**

θεότης
divinity (abstractly)
Derivation: from G2316 ;
KJV Usage: godhead.


Your FRAUD KJV invented "godhead".

I challenge Johnw FRAUD. Show us where the word Greek word for "divinity", divine nature" is in your KJV.

https://studybible.info/strongs/G2320

* Previous Strong's #G2319 Next Strong's #
G2321
Lookup Strong's Number
LSJ Gloss:
θεότης
divinity, divine nature
Dodson:
θεότης
deity, Godhead.
Strong's:
θεότης
divinity (abstractly)
Derivation: from G2316 ;
KJV Usage: godhead.

Janosky:
Johnw FRAUD.
Greek theotes" = divinity, divine nature". NOT Godhead.
"Godhead" is ALIEN to koine Greek.

lying pharisee™ deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ
oh duh, Godhead is english, not greek, it means the same as Divinity oh mighty know nothing twister

Janosky: **#**

θεότης
divinity (abstractly)
Derivation: from G2316 ;
KJV Usage: godhead.


Your FRAUD KJV invented "godhead".

I challenge Johnw FRAUD. Show us where the word Greek word for "divinity", divine nature" is in your KJV.


Previous Strong's #G2319 Next Strong's #
G2321
Lookup Strong's Number
LSJ Gloss:
θεότης
divinity, divine nature
Dodson:
θεότης
deity, Godhead.
Strong's:
θεότης
divinity (abstractly)
Derivation: from G2316 ;
KJV Usage: godhead.

ha ha, all your confusion to try and deny a word
well lets use Dvinity then

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Divinity bodily.

it makes no diffrence oh confused false jw's
whether it's:
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Divinity bodily
or
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily

either way it still means the same thing
Father and the Holy Ghost dwells in the Lord and saviour Jesus Christ

ha ha ha, you false jw's are so duh

Janosky:
It's very obvious that Greek 'theotes' meaning divine nature has no correlation with Godhead.
The word "Godhead" was coined with the dubious intent to claim that God is 3 "heads" in one God.

johnw47:
@1)
Godhead is english, not greek, it means the same as Divinity ....
@2

either way it still means the same thing
Father and the Holy Ghost dwells in the Lord and saviour Jesus Christ

@1) Johnw FRAUD has no proof of Greek theotes - divinity, divine nature" in his KJV.. the guy too fall in love with LIES.


@2)

the FRAUD still admitted that
" it still means the same thing ,Father and the Holy Ghost dwells in the Lord and saviour Jesus Christ"
3 heads (triune face) in one God.


Shame on Johnw FRAUD.

Janosky:
@1) Johnw FRAUD has no proof of Greek theotes - divinity, divine nature" in his KJV.. the guy too fall in love with LIES.

laugh, oh lying pharisee™ deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ, i post it again:

Col 2:9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Godhead
θεότης
theotēs
theh-ot'-ace
divinity (abstractly): - godhead.

and like i showed oh know nothing, you can use Divinity or Godhead, either one
they both mean the same, smile

Janosky: @2)

the FRAUD still admitted that
" it still means the same thing ,Father and the Holy Ghost dwells in the Lord and saviour Jesus Christ"
3 heads (triune face) in one God.


Shame on Johnw FRAUD.

laughing, truly, Divinity and Godhead is the same thing as shown oh blinded one,
and Father and the Holy Spirit does indeed dwell in the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, need scriptures?

but you false jw's stick with your three godheads, and your 3 heads (triune face) in one God,

2Co_4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.


also false jw your posts and editing are very confused, mixing my words with yours
perhaps on purpose, as you have nothing, oh deceiver Janosky/oneJ

lying pharisee™ deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ

i don't blame you for running away again, laugh

lying pharisee™ deceiver false jw Janosky/OneJ

below is a pic of your 3 faced god, is that the one? your god is a statue

i couldn't find a pic of false jw tatime's three godheads god
what does that one look like, is it three persons each having three heads, ha ha ha

such duhs

SONG FOR JESUS

Isn't He lovely
Isn't He wonderful
Isn't He precious
More than Life as told
I never thought through love we'd be
As one in as lovely as He
But isn't He lovely begat from love



^^^ you mad™ max will hate that, you mad max hate praising Jesus:

johnw47:
by a christian

I PRAY THAT HE IS THE LIGHT IN YOUR
LIFE, THE HOPE OF YOUR LIFE AND THAT
HE IS THE WORD THAT IS WITHIN YOU
EVERY DAY

brocab said about that praiseing Jesus: "Perfect"
you mad max posted to brocab:

Maximus69:
PERFECT!
Just post that on the internet and try read the response from those who stumble on that gibberish to know whether there is anything worthwhile in that! If they will not ask you 'who is your HE?' and that is if they feel like responding to know the motive of the one posting it. But once they discover it's from a black man, they'll just waka pass, concluding that it is a mistake or the writer can't understand English or better still it is coming as a result of your BLACK non-functioning brains!
Some miscreant fabricated that nonsense with no names,meaning the writer shamefully hides his/her identity and you call that PERFECT?
Surely you guys have what it takes to WITNESS to a JW!

you false jw mad max thinks nairaland forums is not the internet, laugh
you hateful false jw mad™ max calls praising Jesus: "that gibberish"
you mad max says there is nothing worthwhile in that praise of Jesus
you mad max said people will not know who the "He" being praised is, although it's said to be "by a christian"
you mad max thinks one needs a motive to praise the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ
you mad max believe black mens praise of Jesus is not believed in the world


you mad™ max say you are a christian, so funny

false jw's are told that Jesus is just one of them, a jw

Christians(not false jw's) are sons of God through faith in our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ

but Jesus Himself is "the" Son of God, because He is off God-His Father, He is the only begotten Son

He is God the Word:
john 1:1 in the beginning was the Word, and the word was with God, and the Word was God

He is not just anyone, or no one, as in false jw's

blueAgent:
You did not answer my question from the Bible evidence we can deduce that without God Jesus would not have existed

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? Hebrews 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

I explained the meaning of begotten for you. why was Isaac address as the only son of Abraham , when Abraham already had Ishmael as the first born ,? stop using English meanings to interprets Bible, it is wrong.

there was NEVER a time Jesus became God, but there was a time He became man. the Father is the head of
Deity; the Son is the one who reveals Deity, while the Holy Spirit carries out the work of Deity. this has always been the position of the trinitarian.

blueAgent:
First am not a Jehovah witness.
secondly
what does the word Godhead mean
and can it be used in place of the word
Trinity? The fact is there is no
relationship with the Trinity and the word
Godhead at all as you are about to find
out. Godhead refers to God the Father.
And making this issue a little more
confusing, Godhead is often a word used
by those with the non-Trinitarian truth
for lack of a better word to use in
opposition to the word Trinity.
More and more Trinitarians are using the
word Godhead in place of Trinity
thinking that changes what it is. But
calling the Trinity by another name will
never change what it is. You can call a
cat a dog but it will still be a cat. And
you can call the Trinity the Godhead but
it will still be the Trinity!
The word Godhead is found in 3 verses
in the King James Bible which are
translated from three different Greek
words that have slightly different
meanings but all basically mean the
same thing.
In Acts 17:29 the Greek word translated
Godhead is “theios” (G2304) and means
to be godlike and hence divine.
Acts 17:29 KJV “Forasmuch then as we
are the offspring of God, we ought not to
think that the Godhead is like unto gold,
or silver, or stone, graven by art and
man's device. ”
The same Greek word is used in the
verse below but has been translated to
the word “divine.”
2 Peter 1:3 KJV “According as his divine
power has given unto us all things that
pertain unto life and godliness, through
the knowledge of him that has called us
to glory and virtue: ”
In Romans 1:20 the Greek word
translated Godhead is
“theiotēs” (G2305) and refers to the
divine nature.
Romans 1:20 KJV “For the invisible
things of him from the creation of the
world are clearly seen, being understood
by the things that are made, even his
eternal power and Godhead ; so that they
are without excuse: ”
And in Colossians 2:9 the Greek word
translated Godhead is “theotēs” (G2320)
and means deity as in the state of being
God.
Colossians 2:9 KJV “For in him dwelleth
all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. ”
So the word Godhead speaks of the
“Divine nature” of the Father which has
been given to the Son and hence is in
the Son as we find in Colossians 2:9
above. Thus Jesus being the firstborn
over all creation (Colossians 1:15 ), and
being brought forth from the Father, He
has the same “Divine nature” as His
Father.
Colossians 1:19 KJV “For it pleased the
Father that in him should all fulness
dwell;”
Spirit of Prophecy is also very clear
which says. “The Father is all the fullness
of the Godhead bodily, and is invisible to
mortal sight. ” — (E.G. White, BTS, March
1, 1906)
And so Christ being the Son receives this
fullness, “He [Christ] was not the Father
but in him dwelt all the fullness of the
Godhead bodily,” — (E.G. White, Lt8a,
July 7, 1890)
John 5:26 also tells us that the Father
gave life to His Son. “For as the Father
has life in himself; so has he given to the
Son to have life in himself. ” John 5:26 . If
Jesus had always existed alongside the
Father as the Trinity doctrine claims,
then God could not have given life to His
Son as He would have always had life.
But Scripture reveals this is impossible.
And so neither does the word Godhead
explain the non-Trinitarian position in
opposition to the word Trinity. It has
been the only real option in lack of a
better word to use for the non-Trinitarian
view.
The Trinity doctrine states that there are
three co-equal (equal in every respect),
co-eternal (the same age), omniscient
(all knowing), omnipotent (all powerful)
gods, who are not three gods, but one
god.
By the words of the Athanasian Creed it
is, “ the Father is God, the Son is God, and
the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are
not three gods but one God. ”
In other words. 1+1+1=1 !
So a 3 in 1 and 1 in 3 god which means
the Father cannot really be a Father and
the Son cannot really be a Son, which
denies the Father and Son which the
apostle John called antichrist. And
hence the Holy Spirit is supposedly a
third god that makes up the one god
rather than being the actual Spirit of the
Father and Son just as we have a spirit.
So the Divine nature of the Father
referring to the ONE true God does not
and cannot equal 3 gods yet alone a 3 in
1 god.
Thus Godhead does NOT equal Trinity in
any way whatsoever! Godhead refers to
God the Father and His Divine nature
which dwells in His Son because Christ
is His Son.
If you ever here any Pastor teaching that
Godhead literally means 3 beings, then
know they do not know Scripture or have
been indoctrinated with the Trinitarian
lie. In the following video we see one
such example with Pastor Doug
Batchelor.
Does

this is not a teaching, this is a philosophy on religion, and your philosophy is very wrong.

johnw47:
laugh, it's hard to actually believe you are serious:
Php 2:6  Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 




yes i would call you what you are, blinded, confused, etc.

Thanks, that's just what I want to hear.
Anyhow you put it, he was in God's form but was never equal or claim to be equal with God.
By the way you said nothing about the other verses. Anyways
I won't reply you again because you are not serious, call me whatever you like.

solite3:
Jesus called himself the I Am so many times.
I Am is refers to the unchangeable nature of God not his abiblity to become aything he want.

@ bolded you dont know what you are saying.
If God choose to serve himself how does it mean his nature changed.

Yeah, nothing change and it made sense too.
He servers himself and even send himself.

Comedians

ableguy:
Thanks, that's just what I want to hear.
Anyhow you put it, he was in God's form but was never equal or claim to be equal with God.

you false jw's all have the same duh father god
being in the form of God and considering Himself equal to God go hand in hand
you have no understanding of God's word and you change what is said
but then you are false jw

ableguy: By the way you said nothing about the other verses.

yes i did say about the other verses oh typically cannot stop lying false jw
i said they mean what they say, and i said seeing that you believe they mean other than what they say
tell me what you think they mean
now stop running away and come back on that, you hear

ableguy: Anyways
I won't reply you again because you are not serious, call me whatever you like.

i will call your sentence what it is:
a weak cowardly lying false jw excuse

some things stand right out with false jw's:

2Ti 3:1  This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 
2Ti 3:2  For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 
2Ti 3:3  Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 
2Ti 3:4  Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 
2Ti 3:5  Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 
2Ti 3:6  For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 
2Ti 3:7  Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

covetous: desiring which home they will take over when the owners are killed at armageddon 
boasterd, proud: just read their posts, "we we we!!!"
blasphemers: calling the Lord and Saviour, "a god", "a angel"
unholy: just look at some of their language, "i'll make him eat and drink through his anus!" etc. etc.

malvisguy212:
this is not a teaching, this is a philosophy on religion, and your philosophy is very wrong.

How is it a philosophy? I just showed you the Greek translations of the word Godhead, which means divinity and you are claiming it is not teaching but philosophy.

malvisguy212:
I explained the meaning of begotten for you. why was Isaac address as the only son of Abraham , when Abraham already had Ishmael as the first born ,? stop using English meanings to interprets Bible, it is wrong.

there was NEVER a time Jesus became God, but there was a time He became man. the Father is the head of
Deity; the Son is the one who reveals Deity, while the Holy Spirit carries out the work of Deity. this has always been the position of the trinitarian.

But you trinitarians claim they are Co-equal.

solite3:
lol read what you posted carefully.
Is this not what I have been saying.
Begotten is used to decribe a special relationship it does not mean created.

But the Bible calls Jesus the first or beginning of God's creation.


Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

solite3:
Jesus called himself the I Am so many times.
I Am is refers to the unchangeable nature of God not his abiblity to become aything he want.

@ bolded you dont know what you are saying.
If God choose to serve himself how does it mean his nature changed.

You do not know the meaning of I Am.

Another verse brought into question is
John 8:58 . Note that the words “I am”
also mean “I exist.” Some claim that
Christ was declaring Himself to be God
in John 8:58 because He used the
words “I am.” This is erroneously based
on the words “I am” being a reference to
Exodus 3:14 . From this they draw the
conclusion that Christ was alluding to a
divine name and thereby telling the Jews
that He was God. Trinitarians further try
and support their claim by saying this is
why the Jews picked up stones to kill
Him. But this was due to many things
Jesus said to them throughout John
chapter 8 that slowly brought them to
anger. The final straw being Jesus
claiming seniority over Abraham who
they said was their father. So Jesus
claimed greater authority than the
patriarch and hence was also claiming
to be greater than them.
The phrase “ I am ” in John 8:58 comes
from two Greek words “egō” and “eimi.”
The Strong's Definitions are:
“egō : “I” (only expressed when
emphatic): - I, me. ”
“eimi: I exist (used only when emphatic):
- am, have been, X it is I, was. ”
How would you expect Jesus to respond
to this comment? “ Then said the Jews
unto him, You are not yet fifty years old,
and have you seen Abraham? ” John 8:57
Not knowing Jesus existed before
Abraham, the Pharisees are saying how
could you have seen Abraham because
you are not yet 50 years old. Since the
Greek words for “I am” also mean I exist
or existed, what is the obvious
translation and response from Christ
who existed before Abraham?
“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say
unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. ”
John 8:58
Or
“Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say
unto you, Before Abraham was, I existed.”
John 8:58
Both are valid translations and the
majority of Bible translations agree with
the last one in fact with good reason!
So “ I exist”, “I have been” and “I was” are
other possible translations which have
all been used by various Bible
translators for John 8:58 as well as
elsewhere in the KJV. For example: ego
eimi has been translated to “I was” in
Luke 19:22 “You knewest that I was ( ego
eimi) an austere man, ”
These words formed a phrase that was
in very common use by Jews and
Christians and in New Testament
Scriptures in the first century. It was not
the name of any deity, be it the God of
the Bible or any other god. It was never
understood by Jews or Christians as
declaring one to be God. If it were
understood that way, you can be certain
that the Jews would have never applied
it to themselves as they did so
frequently! In the following examples
Peter, Paul, Gabriel and Zacharias all
said, “I am ” (ego eimi). But none of them
were claiming to be God.
Luke 1:18 “And Zacharias said unto the
angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am
( ego eimi) an old man, ” Luke 1:19 “And
the angel answering said unto him, I am
( ego eimi) Gabriel, ” John 1:27 “He it is,
who coming after me is preferred before
me, whose shoe's latchet I am ( ego eimi)
not worthy to unloose. ” Acts 10:21 “Then
Peter went down to the men which were
sent unto him from Cornelius; and said,
Behold, I am ( ego eimi) he whom you
seek: ” Acts 21:39 “Paul said, I am ( ego
eimi) a man which am a Jew of Tarsus,”
And the blind man also identifies himself
by saying, I am . John 9:9 “Some said,
This is he: others said, He is like him: but
he said, I am ( ego eimi) he. ” None of the
Jews saw this man as declaring himself
to be God either.
Here are all the other verses where
Jesus said ego eimi in the Gospels. Not
one can be understood as Jesus
claiming to be God. Matthew 24:5, Mark
13:6, Luke 21:8 “I am Christ ”, John 8:24,
28, 13:19, 18:5, 6, 8, “I am he (Jesus) ,”
Matthew 20:15 “I am good ,” Matthew
28:20 “I am with you always,” Mark 14:62
“Jesus said I am (the Son of God) ,” Luke
22:27 “I am among you as one who
serveth ,” Luke 22:70 “You say that I am
(the Son of God) ,” John 6:35, 48, 51 “ I
am the bread of life ,” John 7:34, 12:26,
17:24, 14:3 “ Where I am ,” John 8:12 “ I
am the light of the world ,” John 8:18 “ I
am the one that bear witness,” John 8:23
“I am from above,” and “ I am not of this
world ,” John 10:7, 9 “I am the door ,”
John 10:11, 14 “I am the good
shepherd,” John 11:25 “I am the
resurrection,” John 14:6 “I am the way ,”
John 15:1, 5 “I am the true vine,” John
17:14, 16 “I am not of the world ,” John
18:37 “Thou sayest that I am a king .”
At the end of Christ's ministry when
news of Him had spread far and wide,
who did the Jews understand Christ to
be saying He was and what was the
charge they brought against Him?
Matthew 26:63 “the high priest answered
and said unto him, I adjure you by the
living God, that you tell us whether you be
the Christ, the Son of God. ” Matthew
27:40, 43 “If you be the Son of God,
come down from the cross. 43 He
trusted in God ; let him deliver him now, if
he will have him: for he said, I am the Son
of God. ” Mark 14:61 “Again the high
priest asked him, and said unto him, Are
you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
62 And Jesus said, I am [ego eimi]: ”
Mark 15:39 “when the centurion, which
stood over against him, saw that he so
cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said,
Truly this man was the Son of God .” Luke
22:67, 70 “Are you the Christ ? tell us. ...
70 Then said they all, Are you then the
Son of God ? And he said unto them, You
say that I am [ego eimi]. ” John 19:7 “The
Jews answered him, We have a law, and
by our law he ought to die, because he
made himself the Son of God .”
Twice in the verses above Jesus
responded, “I am” (ego eimi) and yet He
was not saying He was God but
confirming that He was the Son of God.
The Jews clearly never understood
Jesus to be declaring Himself God. The
outrage would have been heard far and
wide if He had. There is no record
anywhere in the entire New Testament
of anyone even asking Him if He was
God. So how could the Jews have seen
Him to be saying He was God in John
8:58?
It is also notable that the words “I AM
THAT I AM ” in Exodus 3:14 have been
variously understood for centuries. The
Vulgate translates it as “I am who am. ”
The Septuagint to “I am he who exists.”
The Targum of Jonathan and the
Jerusalem Targum paraphrase the
words as “ He who spake, and the world
was; who spake, and all things existed. ”
The original words literally signify, “I will
be what I will be.”
A comparison of Exodus 3:14 and John
8:58 using the Greek Old Testament the
Septuagint, reveals that God said, “I am
the being (ego eimi ho ohn),” and Jesus
said, “Before Abraham was, I am (prin
abraam genesthai ego eimi) .” So the
divine name is actually “The being (ho
ohn) ”, not “I am (ego eimi ).” This is
further proven by the end of Exodus 3:14
which says “The being (ho ohn) has sent
me to you. ” It does not say “I am (ego
eimi) has sent me to you. ” No matter
how it is translated into English, “ho ohn”
is not the same as “ego eimi .” So there
is no connection between “I AM” in
Exodus and “I am” in John. In no way
does John 8:58 equate Jesus to God
except by biased inference based on
weak translation and bad grammar.
Below are a few examples of how John
8:58 should have been translated. There
are in fact over forty translations that
translated this correctly. See the
meaning of I am in John 8:58 for
detailed information and more
translations.
“The absolute truth is that I was in
existence before Abraham was ever
born! ” — (The Living Bible )
“Jesus answered, before Abraham
existed, I existed.” — ( The Clarified New
Testament )
“In truth I tell you,” replied Jesus, “before
Abraham existed I was.” — (Twentieth
Century New Testament)
“Jesus answered, “The truth is, I existed
before Abraham was even born! ” — (New
Living Translation)
“Jesus said to them, I am telling the
truth: I was alive before Abraham was
born! ” — (International Bible Translators )
The Alpha and
Omega the

solite3:
Proverbs 8:1-3 Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?
She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.
She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.

Really.
So you are telling me that you don't understand Bible prophecy.

A Bible prophecy can start with an object or issue and end with a different subject while delivering it's message.
This is evidence all through the Bible.

Jesus likened himself to wisdom and knowledge, his message was that we should seek him, the content of the message changes in chapter 22.

Proverbs 8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me. 8:20 I lead in the way of righteousness, in the midst of the paths of judgment: 8:21 That I may cause those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures.

solite3:
what do you mean by beget?

Who gave birth to God,?