Transcript of the Video as Bishop Oyedepo preached on Job & Tithing
"You cannot see anywhere Job tithed, so his blessing was not secured. You can't find anywhere Job tithed. No. He was overly committed to giving liberally to the poor, and God was committed to bless him, but there was NO SECURITY.
If you ask the devil, one of the greatest problems on this earth today is this short man. So if I am not smart enough to secure my life, he would devastate me. But he can't reach me. I serve a covenant keeping God, and will rebuke - I won't want you to do anything just leave me to him. He would say , what is your name devourer? I rebuke you! stay off that environment.
This church began tithing on a business skill, that is we calculate what it is in everything and tithe it. See the protection, see the preservation, see the leaps and bounds of God's blessing, see how untouchable the system is, see how untouchable it is"
Job's health and wealth was attacked because he never tithed...
1) Did God restore Job because he later tithed? 2) Bishop has been paying tithes for donkey years. Why didn't the tithe prevent Faith Oyedepo from falling sick at a point in her life?
Connect the dots and see the errors. Unless you are a pastor worshiper suffering from selective amnesia.
Transcript of the Video as Bishop Oyedepo preached on Job & Tithing
"You cannot see anywhere Job tithed, so his blessing was not secured. You can't find anywhere Job tithed. No. He was overly committed to giving liberally to the poor, and God was committed to bless him, but there was NO SECURITY.
If you ask the devil, one of the greatest problems on this earth today is this short man. So if I am not smart enough to secure my life, he would devastate me. But he can't reach me. I serve a covenant keeping God, and will rebuke - I won't want you to do anything just leave me to him. He would say , what is your name devourer? I rebuke you! stay off that environment.
This church began tithing on a business skill, that is we calculate what it is in everything and tithe it. See the protection, see the preservation, see the leaps and bounds of God's blessing, see how untouchable the system is, see how untouchable it is"
jesusjnr: To be honest with you, I am not even against tithing, but the overemphasis of it as is being done by Oyedepo and the likes of him in the church as he did on that occasion.
Because that was similar to how the Pharisees overemphasized tithing and such least things over the most important things which made Jesus rebuke them.
So my position is the same as that of Jesus where it should be treated as the minor thing that it is, not as a major.
God bless.
dermmy: You are not against tithing? Are you saying tithing under the new testament church is right? Ok Did JESUS or any of the Apostles collect tithe? modern day pastors have even gone above that by collecting another one called first fruit. Did the Apostles collect those? Under the old covenant only the Levite were allowed to collect tithe and funny enough they had no portion in the tithe collected because GOD promised he would be their portion.
So how did all these errors creep into the new testament church? Was money a tithing medium in the old testament? Those people tithed animals, farm produce. Who changed it into money under the new testament or are there no animals and agricultural produce in our society anymore?
If my Pastor who is a Nigerian now claims he is a Levite, a lost tribe in Israel how did he arrive at that? Under the new testament the bible says we are all priests and kings so that means we born again christians are all entitled to tithes, first fruit and the rest if that is the case. The old testament people of GOD didn't do monthly tithing so how did this creep into new testament church.
That is why we have fake pastors everywhere because the church rakes in big money through tithes and offering.Everywhere has been litered with church branches because the more the branch the more the money they rake. They are busy running to Europe and America to set up branches because they want tithes in dollars and pounds when the whole of Nigeria has not been captured for GOD. You are running to countries that have lowest crime rates in the world to preach the gospel when your country is still suffering from ritual killing, fraud, criminality, kidnapping etc.
The church is in a dangerous situation. We have liars, greedy men on the pulpit and we think everything they say is right because they pull gullible and lazy crowds who don't understand the word of GOD.
China today censors religion if not for that some Pastors in Nigeria would have littered that country with branches because of their greed. You know China is the second largest economy in the world.
HedwigesMaduro: Sorry pls that quote in that pic, was it actually stated by Bishop Oyedepo? Just curious.
"Did you see anywhere where Job tithed? So his blessing was not secured. You can’t find anywhere where Job tithed. No… He was overly committed to giving liberally to the poor, and God is committed to blessing, but there was no security. Whoa Halelluia… If you ask the devil, one of his greatest problems on this earth today is a short man (Oyedepo pointing to himself) If I am not smart to secure my life, he will devastate me, but he can’t reach me. We.., I serve a covenant keeping God, I will rebuke…." - What Bishop Oyedepo said about Job and tithe in the going round video clip
Wow indeed and with such comment from a senior, it brings the faith into disrepute.
I am sorry to say, there is an awful lot of empty rhetoric written about tithing on here and elsewhere on most threads and I believe the reason is due to the low understanding of the meaning "no one knew Melchizedek birth or death" because of a low understanding of why it was Melchizedek, Abraham opted to give the spoils of war tithe to, because of a low understanding of the customary law behind the tithe Abraham gave and lastly but not the least because of a low understanding of the circumstances of how the Levi got given the office of the priesthood. Yep lots of low understandings.
"There you will bring your burnt offerings, your sacrifices, your tithes, your sacred offerings, your offerings to fulfill a vow, your voluntary offerings, and your offerings of the firstborn animals of your herds and flocks." - Deuteronomy 12:6
"Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.' - Malachi 3:8
Of course, tithing is not offering, if tithing was offering, there wont be a distinction between them, as seen made in Deuteronomy 12:6 and Malachi 3:8 above. Contrary to the opinion of Bishop Oyedepo, tithing, especially taxed, mandatory or obligatory tithe, DOES NOT give you security against satan. Even voluntary tithing doesnt do that. It is placing yourselves under God's authority and resisting satan, that is the security against satan and/or is the security for satan running away from you
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
Awon Prosperity preachers, Fraudstors, Pastorpreneurs and Tithepreneurs...
You are not against tithing? Are you saying tithing under the new testament church is right? Ok Did JESUS or any of the Apostles collect tithe? modern day pastors have even gone above that by collecting another one called first fruit. Did the Apostles collect those? Under the old covenant only the Levite were allowed to collect tithe and funny enough they had no portion in the tithe collected because GOD promised he would be their portion.
So how did all these errors creep into the new testament church? Was money a tithing medium in the old testament? Those people tithed animals, farm produce. Who changed it into money under the new testament or are there no animals and agricultural produce in our society anymore?
If my Pastor who is a Nigerian now claims he is a Levite, a lost tribe in Israel how did he arrive at that? Under the new testament the bible says we are all priests and kings so that means we born again christians are all entitled to tithes, first fruit and the rest if that is the case. The old testament people of GOD didn't do monthly tithing so how did this creep into new testament church.
That is why we have fake pastors everywhere because the church rakes in big money through tithes and offering.Everywhere has been litered with church branches because the more the branch the more the money they rake. They are busy running to Europe and America to set up branches because they want tithes in dollars and pounds when the whole of Nigeria has not been captured for GOD. You are running to countries that have lowest crime rates in the world to preach the gospel when your country is still suffering from ritual killing, fraud, criminality, kidnapping etc.
The church is in a dangerous situation. We have liars, greedy men on the pulpit and we think everything they say is right because they pull gullible and lazy crowds who don't understand the word of GOD.
China today censors religion if not for that some Pastors in Nigeria would have littered that country with branches because of their greed. You know China is the second largest economy in the world.
Why should I be against tithing when Jesus wasn't against it? Because you are?
You are entitled to your opinion on the matter but I stand with Jesus on the matter of tithing because it is not a bad thing but one of the least things.
The problem is not tithing but the abuse of tithes, and if you get that twisted then you have missed the whole point.
Tithes can be very useful to help the poor if you are not aware of that, and if people as Oyedepo use tithes for such purpose instead of enriching themselves, there would not be so much outrage.
The church Jesus founded you may say that they didn't tithe, but they did more than tithing which is hundred percent giving like the widow Jesus talked about. But the reason it wasn't an issue was that the leaders of the church at the time didn't accumulate it unto themselves, but distributed it unto the people to the extent that no one had lack in the church.
So I hope you get the point, it is accountability and abuse of tithes that's the issue not tithing.
jesusjnr: Why should I be against tithing when Jesus wasn't against it? Because you are?
You are entitled to your opinion on the matter but I stand with Jesus on the matter of tithing because it is not a bad thing but one of the least things.
The problem is not tithing but the abuse of tithes, and if you get that twisted then you have missed the whole point.
Tithes can be very useful to help the poor if you are not aware of that, and if people as Oyedepo use tithes for such purpose instead of enriching themselves, there would not be so much outrage.
The church Jesus founded you may say that they didn't tithe, but they did more than tithing which is hundred percent giving like the widow Jesus talked about. But the reason it wasn't an issue was that the leaders of the church at the time didn't accumulate it unto themselves, but distributed it unto the people to the extent that no one had lack in the church.
So I hope you get the point, it is accountability and abuse of tithes that's the issue not tithing.
God bless.
You said JESUS wasn't against tithing, then why didnt he collect tithe? was JESUS not a priest too? Infact his own priesthood is far better than that of the Levitical priesthood so why didnt he preach and collect tithe for himself during his earthly ministry? JESUS had followers that he could preach the tithing doctrine to so why didn't he preach it to them. One of His mission was to raise Apostles that would continue the good news after HIS ressurection so why didn't he inculcate the tithing doctrine into the Apostles during his earthly ministry, because JESUS did his best to groom them for the task ahead, why didn't he tell them categorically to continue the old mosaic doctrine of tithing that he himself as a better eternal priest did not collect?
The Apostles never received tithe and they never laid any curse on anyone who didn't pay it. The church of GOD needs money to do charitable deeds, to function effectively in the areas of evangelism and the rest, that is where giving comes in and giving is different from tithing my brother.
And the church must be transparent in this area all the giving done under the new testament church were used to provide relief materials to other members of christ in other lands. None of the money entered the Apostles account, the apostles didn't appropriate the money to themselves. The church was accountable and none of the Apostles placed a curse on any body who did not give the way modern day pastors scare their members by saying the devourer would attack your finances, your health and business if you don't tithe.
There are buddhist billionaires in Japan who are richer than Oyedepo and his likes why is the devourer not devouring their finances, health and businesses. There are billionaires around the world who don't know GOD, not to talk of the road to church so why is the devourer not devouring their businesses. If the devourer has devoured their businesses Oyedepo won't be using private jet today, he won't be using all those big cars because these automobiles and jets were built by the companies of these Billionaires who don't know GOD let alone paying tithes.
Is tithing not a way of bringing back the old mosaic law? The church should state categorically that it needs money to continue running which i agree, every organization needs finance to succeed but bringing back the old law of tithing under the old testament, cursing and scaring people that they would incur GOD'S wrath if they don't pay is fraud.
You didnt answer all the questions i asked in my first mention all is well. Jesus and his Apostles never scared anyone into giving his money hear what Oyedepo said in that video you shared, i wonder how GOD would feel that day. May GOD save his church.
generationz: I'm sad that Benny hinn is just coming up to say this after so many years. Quite laudable because his friends wouldn't be happy with him for this confession.
I have discovered that the truth been preached from alters isn't straight
Many people have left the church abandoned God altogether because pastor told them God was a money doubler or bet naija shop owner. Sow your salary and reap a billion dollars. Like say na so e dey work. These men would preach these feel good messages but indoors they read, research, pray, fall, rise, network etc, to rise.
But they won't tell you everything as e dey go.
Igbokwe the rice seller has been deceived that once you sow large seeds or pay your tithe everything has been solved. Rufus the student in school believes being a church worked and praying guarantees his A's in class.
No teaching that self improvement and development is the key to mastery.
Igbokwe doesn't know that to be the biggest distributor he has to employ tools other than the spiritual to be better than his competitors.
Later when Non Christians excel better than Christians , baby Christians become dissolutioned and leave the church. They don't understand that even a christian has to live balanced life.
You will not become prime minister of Egypt because your pastor said it and you screamed the loudest amen or sow your salary. You will become one because apart from it being your "destiny" to be one, because you spent over 12 years in a managerial position. You learnt the intricacies of how to manage a home despite being a foreigner and not having previous experience.
By blood sweat and tears you became so good that your boss left you to be in charge. Plus you were so honest. I mean who can find such an honest man like you.
You didn't just become an good dream intepreter at age 30. No you had to first learn , learn from your own dreams. You first forray into this experience was when you shared your first big dream with your brothers. The drama, suffering and hatred that followed taught you never to shared your dreams and visions with others till you trust them.
From interpreting your own dreams you were able to interpret your friends dreams .Then by the time you stood before a king it was easy peasy. You seemed like a god but no one knew all the years of suffering and heart ache that went into gaining such mastery.
What of Moses who's forty years "wasted life" in the wilderness was him learning the intricacies of priesthood from his father in law. He first learnt the intricacies of leadership from the royal family that adopted him .
Of course he didn't know and you too dont know. That's why when your pastor screams "You will go from prison to palace" you shout amen and sow. Instead of you to ask yourself "Am I ready"? Do I have what it takes to lead? Lord please help with the required tools for leadership so I don't disgrace your name and myself.
This is why there is so much corruption in Nigeria. People don't believe merit anymore. No more mastery. We all want to share testimony of how pastor said it and God did it. Miracles happen but a real Christian will know the things he must put effort.
The spirit of wisdom wouldn't have worked if Daniel wasn't reading and spending "alone time" praying and trying to decipher Gods purpose while his friends where eating the kings meal. Forget all the bragging of your pastors they are still sometimes faithless , confused and nearly give up just like you Mr. entrepreneur, student or employee.
Mastery is a tough road to walk on. Years later, Daniel went from just being an intelligent young man to predicting things that will happen over two thousand years from his time.
Back to Benny hinn
As someone who has gained so much insight from his books I love him. But recently, I have been watching him with corner eye. The kind of people Benny Hinn has been associating with for some years now for money, power and recognition....
See bros I understand your anger in this regard because what these leaders do as such pains me greatly as well, but something I try as much as possible to do is not to allow their abuse of tithes to make me now denounce the whole thing as evil, and I would suggest you do the same.
But if you insist, I would ask you to show me just one place where Jesus denounced tithing in His teachings despite mentioning tithing several times?
Because Jesus outrightly denounced divorce, unforgiveness, covetousness, lusting, hypocrisy, false judgment, pride, and you can even add yours the list, so tell me why He never for once denounced tithing?
The only impression Jesus gave concerning tithing was that it was a lesser matter of the law, hence that it should not be overemphasized or placed above the more important things which was His main grouse with the Pharisees:
Matthew 23:23-24 (KJV)
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
So that's exactly the same grouse we should have with church leaders like Oyedepo, as you've already illustrated with the example of the apostles, not collection of tithes.
If you knew me very well, you'd understand that I pay extra attention to anything that Jesus does or says, because I believe that Jesus was perfect and never made one single mistake, therefore the best chance anyone has to be likewise is to follow His example.
That's why I have chosen to go with Jesus on this matter, and not denounce tithing because such blind leaders abuse tithes and its purpose.
BTW I absolutely agree with the bolded of your write-up and say a big Amen to your prayer.
If JESUS wasn't against tithing then why didnt he collect tithe? was JESUS not a priest too? Infact his own priesthood is far better than that of the Levitical priesthood so why didnt he preach and collect tithe for himself during his earthly ministry? JESUS had followers that he could preach the tithing doctrine to so why didn't he preach it to them. One of His mission was to raise Apostles that would continue the good news after HIS ressurection so why didn't he inculcate the tithing doctrine into the Apostles during his earthly ministry, because JESUS did his best to groom them for the task ahead, why didn't he tell them categorically to continue the old mosaic doctrine of tithing that he himself as a better eternal priest did not collect?
The Apostles never received tithe and they never laid any curse on anyone who didn't pay it. The church of GOD needs money to do charitable deeds, to function effectively in the areas of evangelism and the rest, that is where giving comes in and giving is different from tithing my brother.
And the church must be transparent in this area all the giving done under the new testament church were used to provide relief materials to other members of christ in other lands. None of the money entered the Apostles account, the apostles didn't appropriate the money to themselves. The church was accountable and none of the Apostles placed a curse on any body who did not give the way modern day pastors scare their members by saying the devourer would attack your finances, your health and business if you don't tithe.
There are buddhist billionaires in Japan who are richer than Oyedepo and his likes why is the devourer not devouring their finances, health and businesses. There are billionaires around the world who don't know GOD, not to talk of the road to church so why is the devourer not devouring their businesses. If the devourer has devoured their businesses Oyedepo won't be using private jet today, he won't be using all those big cars because these automobiles and jets were built by the companies of these Billionaires who don't know GOD let alone paying tithes.
Is tithing not a way of bringing back the old mosaic law? The church should state categorically that it needs money to continue running which i agree, every organization needs finance to succeed but bringing back the old law of tithing under the old testament, cursing and scaring people that they would incur GOD'S wrath if they don't pay is fraud.
You didnt answer all the questions i asked in my first mention all is well. Jesus and his Apostles never scared anyone into giving his money hear what Oyedepo said in that video you shared, i wonder how GOD would feel that day. May GOD save his church.
Hello CodeTemplar. There are Bhuddist Billionaires in Japan who are richer than Oyedepo and other men of GOD in Nigeria these people don't tithe or sow seed they don't even know any one called JESUS christ pls can you tell me how these people keep getting richer. They are even employing those who go to church and pay tithe.
China has the highest population of Billionaires in the world and these people are not christians yet they are getting blessed but here in Africa an average African christian tithe, sow seed yet he is still struggling to buy a motorcycle. Please can you explain?
Nigerian Pastors would scare the hell out of their members when it comes to tithing by saying the destroyer would destroy their finances, health and the rest if they don't tithe. yet the Japanese Bhuddists, Chinese and American billionaires who don't tithe live longer than Nigerians, it's evident in our life expectancy.
Can't you see that those who control the wealth of this world are people who don't even know the true living GOD let alone tithing or seed sowing. They own big companies that produce cars, jets that our Pastors are using to flaunt their riches. Those preaching the tithe and seed sowing Gospel are the ones getting richer while their listeners don't own a jet or private university. The prosperity Gospel is a fraud.
You can still educate a christian brother.
Until you follow them into their closet and know what they do for wealth stop talking what you don't know. The question should be, why aren't you as rich as those nonbelievers ?
I have read delusional people online who said they are the ones who even preached to him. I laughed. Pastor Benny has come out to say he started thinking down this line 2 or 3 years ago. People who can discern will know the recent influence he came in contact with in that time span. He has done 2 shows now telling people exactly what he was referring to which is exactly what you have above.
If you open your eyes you will see the logo that the station he was preaching is loveworld .studio which pastor Chris opened over about 2 years ago
Job's health and wealth was attacked because he never tithed...
1) Did God restore Job because he later tithed? 2) Bishop has been paying tithes for donkey years. Why didn't the tithe prevent Faith Oyedepo from falling sick at a point in her life?
Connect the dots and see the errors. Unless you are a pastor worshiper suffering from selective amnesia.
You sound like the other one now.
What he stated are based on not reading anywhere that Job tithed. You could show us one.
You said JESUS wasn't against tithing, then why didnt he collect tithe? was JESUS not a priest too? Infact his own priesthood is far better than that of the Levitical priesthood so why didnt he preach and collect tithe for himself during his earthly ministry? JESUS had followers that he could preach the tithing doctrine to so why didn't he preach it to them. One of His mission was to raise Apostles that would continue the good news after HIS ressurection so why didn't he inculcate the tithing doctrine into the Apostles during his earthly ministry, because JESUS did his best to groom them for the task ahead, why didn't he tell them categorically to continue the old mosaic doctrine of tithing that he himself as a better eternal priest did not collect?
The Apostles never received tithe and they never laid any curse on anyone who didn't pay it. The church of GOD needs money to do charitable deeds, to function effectively in the areas of evangelism and the rest, that is where giving comes in and giving is different from tithing my brother.
And the church must be transparent in this area all the giving done under the new testament church were used to provide relief materials to other members of christ in other lands. None of the money entered the Apostles account, the apostles didn't appropriate the money to themselves. The church was accountable and none of the Apostles placed a curse on any body who did not give the way modern day pastors scare their members by saying the devourer would attack your finances, your health and business if you don't tithe.
There are buddhist billionaires in Japan who are richer than Oyedepo and his likes why is the devourer not devouring their finances, health and businesses. There are billionaires around the world who don't know GOD, not to talk of the road to church so why is the devourer not devouring their businesses. If the devourer has devoured their businesses Oyedepo won't be using private jet today, he won't be using all those big cars because these automobiles and jets were built by the companies of these Billionaires who don't know GOD let alone paying tithes.
Is tithing not a way of bringing back the old mosaic law? The church should state categorically that it needs money to continue running which i agree, every organization needs finance to succeed but bringing back the old law of tithing under the old testament, cursing and scaring people that they would incur GOD'S wrath if they don't pay is fraud.
You didnt answer all the questions i asked in my first mention all is well. Jesus and his Apostles never scared anyone into giving his money hear what Oyedepo said in that video you shared, i wonder how GOD would feel that day. May GOD save his church.
There is a sucker born every minute to prey on or pray for, and that is what people who peddle these kind of misleading information rely on
Why not acquaint members with all these financial responsibilities and teach them about the principle of Generous & Cheerful Giving as found in 2 Corinthians 8:1-15 & 2 Corinthians 9:7 I doubt whether at all 2 Corinthians 8:12-13 is ever taken notice off[/color][/i]"
A pastor teaches the whole counsel of God. Why do you think otherwise.
The bible teaches on hard labour, diligence to work, holiness ,righteousness, evangelism, prayer, giving to God ,giving to mog, giving to one another giving to the poor, giving for projects , giving to parents etc
Question is " why do critics criticise giving as though it is the only thing the pastor preach .
Re: Why Do Pastors Prefer Malachi To Deuteronomy When Preaching About Tithe? by MuttleyLaff: 11:30pm On Jan 22, 2017
Wtf, where's the faith, all along to be doing this non induced voluntary giving before, hmm?
Pastors teach every truth. Its critics that lay emphasis on the tithe . Are you saying the whole message of a pastor is on tithe or malachi for one hour every service ? Haba .
jesusjnr: See bros I understand your anger in this regard because what these leaders do as such pains me greatly as well, but something I try as much as possible to do is not to allow their abuse of tithes to make me now denounce the whole thing as evil, and I would suggest you do the same.
But if you insist, I would ask you to show me just one place where Jesus denounced tithing in His teachings despite mentioning tithing several times?
Because Jesus outrightly denounced divorce, unforgiveness, covetousness, lusting, hypocrisy, false judgment, pride, and you can even add yours the list, so tell me why He never for once denounced tithing?
The only impression Jesus gave concerning tithing was that it was a lesser matter of the law, hence that it should not be overemphasized or placed above the more important things which was His main grouse with the Pharisees:
Matthew 23:23-24 (KJV)
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
So that's exactly the same grouse we should have with church leaders like Oyedepo, as you've already illustrated with the example of the apostles, not collection of tithes.
If you knew me very well, you'd understand that I pay extra attention to anything that Jesus does or says, because I believe that Jesus was perfect and never made one single mistake, therefore the best chance anyone has to be likewise is to follow His example.
That's why I have chosen to go with Jesus on this matter, and not denounce tithing because such blind leaders abuse tithes and its purpose.
BTW I absolutely agree with the bolded of your write-up and say a big Amen to your prayer.
God bless.
JESUS didn't condemn tithing right? And Matt 23:23 is your justification hun?
Now let's take a look at the life of the scribes and pharisees. We all know how hypocritical and proud these people were even JESUS never agreed with them for once. Religious practices and rituals that have no life in them rule their lives they would accuse JESUS and his disciples for not eating with washed hands, they would accuse JESUS too for performing miracles on the sabbath and the rest.
JESUS was only exposing their hypocrisy in that Matt 23:23. Why would JESUS approve what the scribes and pharisees do? Blind leaders who led the blind. Why would HE approve what HE as an eternal preist was not even doing i mean the collection of tithe?
"Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes" Rom 10:4
If you were in Israel during the days of JESUS will you follow the scribes and pharisee or JESUS? By tithing you are indirectly saying you go with the pharisee because JESUS said in that Matt 23:23 that woe to you scribe and pharisee for you pay a tithe of mint and anice. If yes that means eating with unwashed hands is sin under this new covenant, that means we don't have to pray for people on the sabbath because these were the doctrines of the pharisees.
Now if the author of the new covenant. The author and the finisher of our faith did not preach or collect tithe during his earthly ministry then why do Pastors keep preaching, emphasizing this old tithing doctrine. If the Apostles who recieved the baton from JESUS did not preach or collect tithe then why do modern day men of GOD preach this doctrine? or should we say these Pastors calling supersede that of JESUS and the Apostles?
Tithing was one of the instructions GOD gave to the people under the old covenant. Stoning of adultrers, witches or those who practise sorcery was one of it, stoning of disobedient children was one of it. Now since our Pastors preach tithe which was part of the old law then why are they not preaching the rest, why are they not stoning adultrers, witches. There was a time a branch pastor commited adultry in one of these mega churches why didn't the GO order the congregation to stone him according to the law that tithing was part of?
Let me stop here. I know you'll still counter this but the truth is in GOD's word and it stands forever. You either go for the truth or rubbish it because it's the truth.
Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29 clearly shows tithe was on agro-produce from the promised land rather than money. That is why the Jews never tithed in the wilderness, or when they were in captivity.
Matthew 23 v 23 also shows tithe was on agro-produce from the promised land, rather than money.
So therefore, where is this doctrine of monthly monetary tithing springing up from?
jesusjnr: See bros I understand your anger in this regard because what these leaders do as such pains me greatly as well, but something I try as much as possible to do is not to allow their abuse of tithes to make me now denounce the whole thing as evil, and I would suggest you do the same.
But if you insist, I would ask you to show me just one place where Jesus denounced tithing in His teachings despite mentioning tithing several times?
Because Jesus outrightly denounced divorce, unforgiveness, covetousness, lusting, hypocrisy, false judgment, pride, and you can even add yours the list, so tell me why He never for once denounced tithing?
The only impression Jesus gave concerning tithing was that it was a lesser matter of the law, hence that it should not be overemphasized or placed above the more important things which was His main grouse with the Pharisees:
Matthew 23:23-24 (KJV)
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
So that's exactly the same grouse we should have with church leaders like Oyedepo, as you've already illustrated with the example of the apostles, not collection of tithes.
If you knew me very well, you'd understand that I pay extra attention to anything that Jesus does or says, because I believe that Jesus was perfect and never made one single mistake, therefore the best chance anyone has to be likewise is to follow His example.
That's why I have chosen to go with Jesus on this matter, and not denounce tithing because such blind leaders abuse tithes and its purpose.
BTW I absolutely agree with the bolded of your write-up and say a big Amen to your prayer.
God bless.
JESUS didn't condemn tithing right? And Matt 23:23 is your justification hun?
Now let's take a look at the life of the scribes and pharisees. We all know how hypocritical and proud these people were even JESUS never agreed with them for once. Religious practices and rituals that have no life in them rule their lives they would accuse JESUS and his disciples for not eating with washed hands, they would accuse JESUS too for performing miracles on the sabbath and the rest.
JESUS was only exposing their hypocrisy in that Matt 23:23. Why would JESUS approve what the scribes and pharisees do? Blind leaders who led the blind. Why would HE approve what HE as an eternal preist was not even doing i mean the collection of tithe?
"Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes" Rom 10:4
If you were in Israel during the days of JESUS will you follow the scribes and pharisee or JESUS? By tithing you are indirectly saying you go with the pharisee because JESUS said in that Matt 23:23 that woe to you scribe and pharisee for you pay a tithe of mint and anice. If yes that means eating with unwashed hands is sin under this new covenant, that means we don't have to pray for people on the sabbath because these were the doctrines of the pharisees.
Now if the author of the new covenant. The author and the finisher of our faith did not preach or collect tithe during his earthly ministry then why do Pastors keep preaching, emphasizing this old tithing doctrine. If the Apostles who recieved the baton from JESUS did not preach or collect tithe then why do modern day men of GOD preach this doctrine? or should we say these Pastors calling supersede that of JESUS and the Apostles?
Tithing was one of the instructions GOD gave to the people under the old covenant. Stoning of adultrers, witches or those who practise sorcery was one of it, stoning of disobedient children was one of it. Now since our Pastors preach tithe which was part of the old law then why are they not preaching the rest, why are they not stoning adultrers, witches. There was a time a branch pastor commited adultry in one of these mega churches why didn't the GO order the congregation to stone him according to the law that tithing was part of?
Or didn't James 2:10 says " Whoever keeps the whole law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it." ?
You are tithing yet you eat biscuit and egg roll with unwashed hands. You are tithing and you are not stoning adultrers according to the law. The fact that JESUS stopped those people from stoning that adultrous woman should tell you the law has been annulled. That was what JESUS was referring to in that Matt 23:23 by accusing the pharisee of rejecting mercy.
Let me stop here. I know you'll still counter this but the truth is in GOD's word and it stands forever. You either go for the truth or rubbish it because it's the truth.
When pro-tithers are ready to show us where God specifically mentioned money as part of the items to be tithed, then they should know that monetary tithing is unscriptural.
When God required money for the needs of the Temple, He specifically mentioned where all Israelite males should be levied a temple tax of half a shekel every year. That was an instance of God clearly asking for money.
Refer to Exodus 30 v 13-16 for where God gave the instruction through Moses;
13 This shall every man give, that goeth into the number, half a shekel, after the [a]shekel of the Sanctuary: (a shekel is twenty gerahs) the half shekel shall be an offering to the Lord. 14 All that are numbered from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering to the Lord. 15 The rich shall not pass, and the poor shall not diminish from half a shekel, when ye shall give an offering unto the Lord, for the redemption of your lives. 16 So thou shalt take the money of the redemption of the children of Israel, and shalt put it unto the use of the Tabernacle of the Congregation, that it may be a memorial unto the children of Israel before the Lord, for the redemption of your lives.
BASED ON THE ABOVE, IT WAS CLEAR WHEN & HOW GOD ASKED FOR MONEY TO MAINTAIN THE TEMPLE...
NOW LET US EXAMINE GOD'S REQUIREMENT FOR TITHES BELOW;
Refer to Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29;
22 Thou shalt give the tithe of all the increase of thy seed, that cometh forth of the field year by year. 23 And thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God (in the place which he shall choose to cause his Name to dwell there) the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstborn of thy kine, and of thy sheep, that thou mayest learn to fear the Lord thy God always. 24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it, because the place is far from thee, where the Lord thy God shall choose to set his name, when the Lord thy God shall bless thee, 25 Then shalt thou make it in money, and take the money in thine hand, and go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose. 26 And thou shalt bestow the money for whatsoever thine heart desireth: whether it be ox, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatsoever thine heart desireth: and shalt eat it there before the Lord thy God, and rejoice, both thou, and thine household. 27 And the Levite that is within thy gates, shalt thou not forsake: for he hath neither part nor inheritance with thee. 28 At the end of three years thou shalt [e]bring forth all the tithes of thine increase of the same year, and lay it up within thy gates. 29 Then the Levite shall come, because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee, and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, and shall eat, and be filled, that the Lord thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.
Based on the above verses, God clearly mentioned what is titheable, and money was not part of the items to be tithed.
IN CONCLUSION: Any fraudster that comes with the excuse that money was not in use because the Israelites were predominantly farmers and cattle rearers...should read Exodus 30 v 13-16 and explain to us why God demanded money from these same Israelites...but specified crops and livestock as tithes in Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29;
Also, I'll be waiting for scriptural references where God made tithing mandatory for gentiles as well.
JESUS didn't condemn tithing right? And Matt 23:23 is your justification hun?
Now let's take a look at the life of the scribes and pharisees. We all know how hypocritical and proud these people were even JESUS never agreed with them for once. Religious practices and rituals that have no life in them rule their lives they would accuse JESUS and his disciples for not eating with washed hands, they would accuse JESUS too for performing miracles on the sabbath and the rest.
JESUS was only exposing their hypocrisy in that Matt 23:23. Why would JESUS approve what the scribes and pharisees do? Blind leaders who led the blind. Why would HE approve what HE as an eternal preist was not even doing i mean the collection of tithe?
"Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes" Rom 10:4
If you were in Israel during the days of JESUS will you follow the scribes and pharisee or JESUS? By tithing you are indirectly saying you go with the pharisee because JESUS said in that Matt 23:23 that woe to you scribe and pharisee for you pay a tithe of mint and anice. If yes that means eating with unwashed hands is sin under this new covenant, that means we don't have to pray for people on the sabbath because these were the doctrines of the pharisees.
Now if the author of the new covenant. The author and the finisher of our faith did not preach or collect tithe during his earthly ministry then why do Pastors keep preaching, emphasizing this old tithing doctrine. If the Apostles who recieved the baton from JESUS did not preach or collect tithe then why do modern day men of GOD preach this doctrine? or should we say these Pastors calling supersede that of JESUS and the Apostles?
Tithing was one of the instructions GOD gave to the people under the old covenant. Stoning of adultrers, witches or those who practise sorcery was one of it, stoning of disobedient children was one of it. Now since our Pastors preach tithe which was part of the old law then why are they not preaching the rest, why are they not stoning adultrers, witches. There was a time a branch pastor commited adultry in one of these mega churches why didn't the GO order the congregation to stone him according to the law that tithing was part of?
Let me stop here. I know you'll still counter this but the truth is in GOD's word and it stands forever. You either go for the truth or rubbish it because it's the truth.
You deliberately left out a part of that saying of Jesus concerning tithing, because that showed Jesus position about tithing and it would prove your idea wrong that Jesus was against tithing.
So that is also my position except you can show me where Jesus said as in the instance of divorce said it was wrong, I promise you that I would say the same.
jesusjnr: You deliberately left out a part of that saying of Jesus concerning tithing, because that showed Jesus position about tithing and it would prove your idea wrong that Jesus was against tithing.
So that is also my position except you can show me where Jesus said as in the instance of divorce said it was wrong, I promise you that I would say the same.
God bless.
One thing about the law is you can't fulfill everything in it. That means you can't be justified by it.
Gal 3:11 "That no man is justified by the law in the sight of GOD is evident, for the just shall live by faith."
The Pharisees seeks justification from the law by observing religious rituals and keeping of days which cannot amend the broken relationship between man and his maker. And and law itself is even a stumbling block because you can't fulfill all of it the pharisees in their sight felt they were right with GOD through their observance of the law so JESUS had to show them their hypocrisy by saying
"you pay a tithe of mint and anise and cummin and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done without leaving the others undone."
By saying this their hypocrisy was exposed because they were only paying the tithe of cumin and anise and have gelected the wieghtier matters which is mercy and faith. And he told them the ought to have done these too. By saying that, JESUS was able to establish the fact that the pharisees can't fulfill the whole law thereby perfection is not theirs. The pharisee always boast of perfection but JESUS exposed their hypocrisy there.
James 2:10 says " Whoever keeps the whole law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it."
I pray you see the truth here. The Holy Spirit will open your mind. This is the time the children of GOD need the word of GOD.
You don't answer my questions. I have asked many questions so far. E.g why did JESUS and the Apostles didn't preach or collect tithe, but you didn't answer me. If i open a church and start preaching and collecting tithe today scaring my members if they don't pay tithe that devourer would devour their health, finances does that mean i am greater than the MASTER who instituted the new covenant?
There are still rabbis in Israel today, they are adherents of judiasm. Do these people still tithe? Do they still offer sacrifices the way the old people do? Do they still stone adultrers and those who practice withcraft? The answer is NO. So why are Pastors around the world who are not jews still uphold the doctrine they and thier ancestors were never part of from the beginning? Nigeria and other parts of the world were gentile nations during the bible times.
Pastor EA Adeboye even said it that those who don't pay tithe won't make heaven. Are you okay with all of these?
jesusjnr: You deliberately left out a part of that saying of Jesus concerning tithing, because that showed Jesus position about tithing and it would prove your idea wrong that Jesus was against tithing.
So that is also my position except you can show me where Jesus said as in the instance of divorce said it was wrong, I promise you that I would say the same.
God bless.
I was going with your flow till you forgot to mention that the era in which Christ was speaking was that of the Law.
Till he died it was still in effect. So he couldn't outrightly condemn it.
But if you believe that Christ is the end of the Law, you cannot endorse tithing for any reason as it is, weightier matter or not.
Like the person you're responding to has said, you can never be justified by the works of the Law before God. Observing anything that is in the Law is negating the death and resurrection of Christ.
And why is Matthew 23:23 the only place where Christ ever mentions tithing? It's because he knew that it was only a matter of time before it would become obsolete, along with the ordinances of the law. Christ constantly berated the Pharisees for their inability to lead the people to true worship, instead placing several burdens on them,one of which was tithing. I believe you are also aware that in the old testament there were sections of people who weren't supposed to tithe. But the essence of tithing had been lost by these Pharisees who always insisted on it,even down to the tiniest of plants.
And if I may ask, to what purpose is paying of tithe to the follower of Christ, post-resurrection?.
I was going with your flow till you forgot to mention that the era in which Christ was speaking was that of the Law.
Till he died it was still in effect. So he couldn't outrightly condemn it.
But if you believe that Christ is the end of the Law, you cannot endorse tithing for any reason as it is, weightier matter or not.
Like the person you're responding to has said, you can never be justified by the works of the Law before God. Observing anything that is in the Law is negating the death and resurrection of Christ.
And why is Matthew 23:23 the only place where Christ ever mentions tithing? It's because he knew that it was only a matter of time before it would become obsolete, along with the ordinances of the law. Christ constantly berated the Pharisees for their inability to lead the people to true worship, instead placing several burdens on them,one of which was tithing. I believe you are also aware that in the old testament there were sections of people who weren't supposed to tithe. But the essence of tithing had been lost by these Pharisees who always insisted on it,even down to the tiniest of plants.
And if I may ask, to what purpose is paying of tithe to the follower of Christ, post-resurrection?.
Simple answer please.
"Till he died it was still in effect. So he couldn't outrightly condemn it."
Chai. I learnt another big thing today, I'll teach people this you have written. Thank you Hoopla. Remain blessed
One thing about the law is you can't fulfill everything in it. That means you can't be justified by it.
Gal 3:11 "That no man is justified by the law in the sight of GOD is evident, for the just shall live by faith."
The Pharisees seeks justification from the law by observing religious rituals and keeping of days which cannot amend the broken relationship between man and his maker. And and law itself is even a stumbling block because you can't fulfill all of it the pharisees in their sight felt they were right with GOD through their observance of the law so JESUS had to show them their hypocrisy by saying
"you pay a tithe of mint and anise and cummin and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done without leaving the others undone."
By saying this their hypocrisy was exposed because they were only paying the tithe of cumin and anise and have gelected the wieghtier matters which is mercy and faith. And he told them the ought to have done these too. By saying that, JESUS was able to establish the fact that the pharisees can't fulfill the whole law thereby perfection is not theirs. The pharisee always boast of perfection but JESUS exposed their hypocrisy there.
James 2:10 says " Whoever keeps the whole law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it."
I pray you see the truth here. The Holy Spirit will open your mind. This is the time the children of GOD need the word of GOD.
You don't answer my questions. I have asked many questions so far. E.g why did JESUS and the Apostles didn't preach or collect tithe, but you didn't answer me. If i open a church and start preaching and collecting tithe today scaring my members if they don't pay tithe that devourer would devour their health, finances does that mean i am greater than the MASTER who instituted the new covenant?
There are still rabbis in Israel today, they are adherents of judiasm. Do these people still tithe? Do they still offer sacrifices the way the old people do? Do they still stone adultrers and those who practice withcraft? The answer is NO. So why are Pastors around the world who are not jews still uphold the doctrine they and thier ancestors were never part of from the beginning? Nigeria and other parts of the world were gentile nations during the bible times.
Pastor EA Adeboye even said it that those who don't pay tithe won't make heaven. Are you okay with all of these?
GOD bless you jesusjnr
If you think I support the Antichrist teachings of such ones on tithing then you're getting it very wrong about me view.
Because if I did, why would I be wearing the badge of Oyedepo's heresy concerning tithing every where I went?
It's easy to see where they got it wrong because Jesus never said or assumed such. Infact Jesus demeaned it to the point that it was pretty much insignificant to those who kept it as the Pharisees. But the point is, does that make tithing a sin or antichrist?
Certainly not. So that's my point.
Just like the rich young man who couldn't meet up with the requirement to follow Jesus, does that mean that all the good things that he was keep up with since his youth, that he should stop them?
I don't think so.
Even former CAN president Ayo Oritse.... threatened his members that they would die if they don't pay tithes, but should we now because of such Antichrist utterances of the modern day Pharisees throw tithing away altogether?
I don't believe we should, because not everyone would be able to meet up with the perfect standard of Jesus as that rich young man, so for such ones tithing can be useful.
"Till he died it was still in effect. So he couldn't outrightly condemn it."
Chai. I learnt another big thing today, I'll teach people this you have written. Thank you Hoopla. Remain blessed
Nah it's not me. Its simple logic.
If Christ is God, who supposedly gave the children of Israel the Law, then it would be ironic that he is knocking the very same thing he asked you to do.
It is all about context. People who rush to Matt 23:23 never apply it in it's full context.
Like I said in my post, Christ is the end of the Law. The only way to fulfill the Law and all its ordinances and obligations (including tithing) is to believe in Christ as the savior and accept his Lordship, simply because on our own, our righteousness is useless before God. For me it's that simple.
I was going with your flow till you forgot to mention that the era in which Christ was speaking was that of the Law.
Till he died it was still in effect. So he couldn't outrightly condemn it.
But if you believe that Christ is the end of the Law, you cannot endorse tithing for any reason as it is, weightier matter or not.
Like the person you're responding to has said, you can never be justified by the works of the Law before God. Observing anything that is in the Law is negating the death and resurrection of Christ.
And why is Matthew 23:23 the only place where Christ ever mentions tithing? It's because he knew that it was only a matter of time before it would become obsolete, along with the ordinances of the law. Christ constantly berated the Pharisees for their inability to lead the people to true worship, instead placing several burdens on them,one of which was tithing. I believe you are also aware that in the old testament there were sections of people who weren't supposed to tithe. But the essence of tithing had been lost by these Pharisees who always insisted on it,even down to the tiniest of plants.
And if I may ask, to what purpose is paying of tithe to the follower of Christ, post-resurrection?.
Simple answer please.
If He couldn't outrightly condemn it because it was still in effect till His death, then how was He able to condemn divorce, an eye for an eye, adultery of the heart, unforgiveness and so on which were also from the law?
The Gospel of the Kingdom, which was meant for His post-death era was preached before His death, hence His saying after His death:
Matthew 28:20 (KJV)
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
So that your point that He couldn't outrightly condemn tithing for that reason doesn't correspond with this saying, because He outrightly condemned anything from the Law that warranted condemning before His death. And that was why what He commanded His disciples to teach men after His death, were what He had taught them prior to His death.
jesusjnr: If He couldn't outrightly condemn it because it was still in effect till His death, then how was He able to condemn divorce, an eye for an eye, adultery of the heart, unforgiveness and so on which were also from the law?
The Gospel of the Kingdom, which was meant for His post-death era was preached before His death, hence His saying after His death:
Matthew 28:20 (KJV)
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
So that your point that He couldn't outrightly condemn tithing for that reason doesn't correspond with this saying, because He outrightly condemned anything from the Law that warranted condemning before His death. And that was why what He commanded His disciples to teach men after His death, were what He had taught them prior to His death.
God bless.
Sorry but you bear the name Jesus but you hardly even know him
The root of Christ's message was love, first for God, then for fellow humans, regardless of whatever, even unto your enemies. That is why he taught people against revenge. More so, you are ignoring the fact that the Law became obsolete the minute Christ died as the perfect sacrifice for the redemption of man unto God.
You haven't answered my question about what tithing does for me post-resurrection. Since you say Christ never condemned it.
Sorry but you bear the name Jesus but you hardly even know him
The root of Christ's message was love, first for God, then for fellow humans, regardless of whatever, even unto your enemies. That is why he taught people against revenge. More so, you are ignoring the fact that the Law became obsolete the minute Christ died as the perfect sacrifice for the redemption of man unto God.
You haven't answered my question about what tithing does for me post-resurrection. Since you say Christ never condemned it.
The guy avoids question that's the problem i have with him. He hasn't answered any of the questions i have asked him so far and i did my best to answer his according to scriptures.
The guy avoids question that's the problem i have with him. He hasn't answered any of the questions i have asked him so far and i did my best to answer his according to scriptures.
Lol. I'm still waiting for an answer. I'll probably not get it.
Let me even go with the passage he quoted about teaching others what he taught them.
So did Christ teach his disciples to tithe?since according to him, Christ didnt stop people from paying tithe. I only noticed that from Acts of the Apostles nobody was saying anything about tithing throughout these books post-resurrection. So it must mean they were disobeying Christ,abi?
Lol. He still refuses to use context in reading Matt 23:23, just like each liar that holds that passage up as a defence for post-resurrection tithing. And the context is simply wrapped around the fact that Christ is the end of the Law. So uncle jesusjnr, Tell is what the role of tithing post-resurrection is. Tell is whether or not we should tithe, given that Christ's death and resurrection gave rise to a new priesthood which is the custodian to the new order of fellowship with God.
.