₦airaland Forum

[quote author=profolaolu post=85401179][/quote]Is that not fulfilling the mission of your Jesus?

He kept talking in parables to deceive people not to repent.

He now later sent his disciples to preach around, the preaching he can't do.

After the disciples failed, Christians believe Jesus appeared to Paul again to help him continue from where he failed.

Why can't Jesus preach and stop deceiving people?

AntiChristian:
So what does face to face mean figuratively?

now in that scope of the whole story of God speaking to mankind, God speaks through dream, vision, audible now face to face talk is when the God is speaking through His glory to you not in vision but in reality.

jcross19:
now in that scope of the whole story of God speaking to mankind, God speaks through dream, vision, audible now face to face talk is when the God is speaking through His glory to you not in vision but in reality.

If your brother speaks to you face to face does it mean he is speaking to you through his glory too?

Yes. By Faith Abraham, Others and I see God.

AntiChristian:
Can God be Seen?

Here are some Bible verses that states people seeing God "face to face''. Some Christians say God appeared as humans, fire, angels or light but this is usually stated.

Enilove quoted this Bible verse that says:
Gen 18:1-3
1 Then the LORD appeared to Abraham by the oaks of Mamre in the heat of the day, while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent. 2 And Abraham lifted up his eyes and saw three men
standing nearby. When he saw them, he ran from the entrance of his tent to meet them
and bowed low to the ground. 3 “My lord,” said Abraham...

Here Abraham saw the LORD and then he saw the lord(angels).

Jacob saw God face to face
Genesis 32:30
30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."

Seeing God face to face should be different from seeing a human (posing as God) face to face.

Moses, Aaron and over 70 others saw God
Exodus 24:9,10
9 Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire, clear as the sky itself.

There's nothing here to suggest Moses and others saw a human, fire, light or an angel posing as God.

These above verses contradict with...

God implies No one can see Him
Exodus 33:20
But," He said, " you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."

John the evangelist opines no one has ever seen God
1 John 4:12
No one has ever seen God ; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

Allah says in the Qur'an:
Surah 6:103
No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things.

Would you rather worship the God of the Bible who is finite enough to be seen by a man or would you worship a God that is so infinite that that He cannot be perceived by any human being due to our limited senses? This is the Only True God; the God who revealed the Glorious Quran.

NB: fortran12, joytothewise and other Christians do not derail this thread to another topic! If you can't explain the topic here just keep mute!

As much as I remember No one knows who Allah is, your prophet never saw him, it's only " jubril " he met, the one that was squeezing him all over ( making him run under his wife's covering shaking all over) even in the Muslim sex paradise there is no mention of anyone seeing Allah only 80000 little boys and 70 virgins and lots of wine

fortran12:
As much as I remember No one knows who Allah is, your prophet never saw him, it's only " jubril " he met, the one that was squeezing him all over ( making him run under his wife's covering shaking all over) even in the Muslim sex paradise there is no mention of anyone seeing Allah only 80000 little boys and 70 virgins and lots of wine

Did you pass your SSCE exams? Why do you all love diverting the topic?

Can God be seen from the Bible and Qur'an is the the topic.

And you are bringing another topic here!

AntiChristian:
Did you pass your SSCE exams? Why do you all love diverting the topic?

Can God be seen from the Bible and Qur'an is the the topic.

And you are bringing another topic here!

Stop running to open new threads after you have been refuted in your old threads. Admit you are wrong first.

fortran12:
Stop running to open new threads after you have been refuted in your old threads. Admit you are wrong first.

Which old thread? Last year threads?

I am not wrong! You're so full of diversion.

AntiChristian:
Which old thread? Last year threads?

I am not wrong! You're so full of diversion.

I asked about Aaron's father's name
I asked about Moses being Jesus uncle
No response yet

AntiChristian:
Can God be Seen?

Here are some Bible verses that states people seeing God "face to face''. Some Christians say God appeared as humans, fire, angels or light but this is usually stated.

Enilove quoted this Bible verse that says:
Gen 18:1-3
1 Then the LORD appeared to Abraham by the oaks of Mamre in the heat of the day, while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent. 2 And Abraham lifted up his eyes and saw three men
standing nearby. When he saw them, he ran from the entrance of his tent to meet them
and bowed low to the ground. 3 “My lord,” said Abraham...

Here Abraham saw the LORD and then he saw the lord(angels).

Jacob saw God face to face
Genesis 32:30
30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."

Seeing God face to face should be different from seeing a human (posing as God) face to face.

Moses, Aaron and over 70 others saw God
Exodus 24:9,10
9 Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire, clear as the sky itself.

There's nothing here to suggest Moses and others saw a human, fire, light or an angel posing as God.

These above verses contradict with...

God implies No one can see Him
Exodus 33:20
But," He said, " you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."

John the evangelist opines no one has ever seen God
1 John 4:12
No one has ever seen God ; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

Allah says in the Qur'an:
Surah 6:103
No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things.

Would you rather worship the God of the Bible who is finite enough to be seen by a man or would you worship a God that is so infinite that that He cannot be perceived by any human being due to our limited senses? This is the Only True God; the God who revealed the Glorious Quran.

NB: fortran12, joytothewise and other Christians do not derail this thread to another topic! If you can't explain the topic here just keep mute!

Hope you see what God said, you cannot see my " face" so Moses etc never saw his face. The verse u quoted they described his feet etc which was what they saw.

fortran12:
Hope you see what God said, you cannot see my " face" so Moses etc never saw his face. The verse u quoted they described his feet etc which was what they saw.

But they saw God face to face.

What is face to face in your language?

fortran12:
I asked about Aaron's father's name I asked about Moses being Jesus uncle No response yet

Not relevant here. That's not related to this thread.

AntiChristian:
Not relevant here. That's not related to this thread.

Answer on the thread I asked. U keep running

AntiChristian:
But they saw God face to face.

What is face to face in your language?

Show where it mentioned face to face

fortran12:
Show where it mentioned face to face

Reread the OP and stop bouncing to reply.

fortran12:
Answer on the thread I asked. U keep running

create your thread and stop derailing other's.

AntiChristian:
Reread the OP and stop bouncing to reply.

He did not mention face to face sorry u got no case

fortran12:
He did not mention face to face sorry u got no case

Exodus 33:11
The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend.

Genesis 32:30
30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."

AntiChristian:
If your brother speaks to you face to face does it mean he is speaking to you through his glory too?

language of man is d is different from language of God. Now the same your Koran said allah talk without opening mouth, see without opening eye so that's power of God.

jcross19:
language of man is d is different from language of God. Now the same your Koran said allah talk without opening mouth, see without opening eye so that's power of God.

Can you show me that verse in the Qur'an?

I will call you a liar for Christ if you can't!

[quote author=AntiChristian post=85397690]If I tell you I saw someone face to face will you believe I saw that person behind a mask or in a Santa gown?

Jacob saw God face to face![/quote I disagree

[quote author=Viciheaka post=85408489][/quote]Just tell us Jacob saw wrong or the Bible manuscripts used are fake?

[quote author=Viciheaka post=85408489][/quote]Try and read the original post again!

FOLYKAZE:
Ifa is a universal spiritual system, and as you mistakenly posited not really a Yoruba thing. It only seem to me that Orunmila found the most complex and advance system which encompasses all issues in physical and spiritual world. It is Ifa among the Yoruba people, Fa in vodon people, Kabballa to the Jew, Iching to Chinese, ilm al-raml to the Arabians.

Many of the Islamic scholars who practice ilm al-raml always inscribe Odu Ifa but they chant verses from the Quran which is mainly in Arabic language. Those Imam also practise Isese because ilm al-raml is an aspect of Orunmila Ifa system.


The beauty of Yoruba language is natural and can be easily altered when translated to other languages. Many of you Christians use the appellation of an Orisha for Jesus and Jehovah. Example is Ori which is a divinity convinced with Jehovah. Therefore, it is the best thing to do to relate with Yoruba spiritual system in Yoruba Language but Yoruba Language isn't the absolute tongue for consulting Ifa.

An Odu narrates about how Ifa speak Tapa even when Orunmila do not understand Tapa language. Will surely make my findings on the particular Odu.

Santeria is founded on Orisa system mixed with Christianity. In many cases, practitioner of this religion pray to Ogun (angel michael) in English and in the church. Therefore, whether they refer Ogun as Angel Michael, or Obaluaye as Saint Lazarus, it never changes the status of Ogun as the Deity of Iron and war. Calling Obaluaye Lazarus has not changed Obaluaye from been the God of infectious diseases. And note, lukumi language isn't Yoruba.

I do not intend to dispute with you on the universality of IFA as anyone can choose to believe anything. For instance, the Olumba-Olumba believe that Olumba is Jesus Christ. The Grail message adherents believe that Abdulrushin their founder is the Holy Spirit. There was even a time when there was a Jesus of Oyingbo. So, you can understand my position.

The universality of IFA is your belief, I can't speak for that. I can only speak on what I know of the 256 Odu IFA. I don't know apart of your claim of the "universality" of IFA any creed/spiritual system that is language for language a translation of the 256 odu IFA. I hope you can see my predicament.

By the way, my problem is only with antichristian who at best doesn't even understand his Islam and want to throw stones at Christianity.

shadeyinka:
I do not intend to dispute with you on the universality of IFA as anyone can choose to believe anything. For instance, the Olumba-Olumba believe that Olumba is Jesus Christ. The Grail message adherents believe that Abdulrushin their founder is the Holy Spirit. There was even a time when there was a Jesus of Oyingbo. So, you can understand my position.

The universality of IFA is your belief, I can't speak for that. I can only speak on what I know of the 256 Odu IFA. I don't know apart of your claim of the "universality" of IFA any creed/spiritual system that is language for language a translation of the 256 odu IFA. I hope you can see my predicament.

By the way, my problem is only with antichristian who at best doesn't even understand his Islam and want to throw stones at Christianity.

You're the one who doesn't understand the meaning of face to face! Simple.

AntiChristian:
You're the one who doesn't understand the meaning of face to face! Simple.

Your lack of intelligence has been exposed in the few exchanges we had.
Face to face with a Spirit!?
SMH!

shadeyinka:
Your lack of intelligence has been exposed in the few exchanges we had.
Face to face with a Spirit!?
SMH!

God can do anything right?

Ordinary if he wants man to see him he can do it.

But just because a contradiction exist that's why you are....

Yes, spirits have form and I don't think Adam and Eve did not see God!

shadeyinka:
I do not intend to dispute with you on the universality of IFA as anyone can choose to believe anything. For instance, the Olumba-Olumba believe that Olumba is Jesus Christ. The Grail message adherents believe that Abdulrushin their founder is the Holy Spirit. There was even a time when there was a Jesus of Oyingbo. So, you can understand my position.

The universality of IFA is your belief, I can't speak for that. I can only speak on what I know of the 256 Odu IFA. I don't know apart of your claim of the "universality" of IFA any creed/spiritual system that is language for language a translation of the 256 odu IFA. I hope you can see my predicament.

By the way, my problem is only with antichristian who at best doesn't even understand his Islam and want to throw stones at Christianity.

No dear, you are turning everything on it head and robing yourself with confusion.

In your own words, Ogun and the Yoruba Gods can be invoked or consulted with Yoruba language alone. You claimed you have only seen incarnation in Yoruba language only and showed video of a Brazilian praising Ifa in Yoruba tongue.

The reality, like I have informed you is that Ifa can be consulted by someone that speak a tongue different from Ede-Yoruba. The first example is the Nupe people in Niger state, often referred to as Tapa among the Yoruba people. If you can a book written by Wande Abimbola, Oju Odu Merindinlogun, in Irosun Meji that Ọpẹ fọ tapa. Ope in that context is Ifa. The verse added that Ifa speaks tapa even when Orunmila do not understand the language. Till date, Ifa is practised among the Tapa, yet they don't speak Yoruba.

Santeria also consult Yoruba deities as Saints, with a language that isn't Yoruba. It is truth they speak some little Yoruba words but that isn't enough to claim they invoke Yoruba Gods with Yoruba Language only.

If you have issues with antichristian and his religion, deal with that directly rather than dragging Yoruba spiritual system into it. Yoruba heritage won't serve as a yardstick for diccck measuring contest between two abrahamic religion adherent. Thanks

AntiChristian:
God can do anything right?

Ordinary if he wants man to see him he can do it.

But just because a contradiction exist that's why you are....

Yes, spirits have form and I don't think Adam and Eve did not see God!

So, Light is reflected from a spirits body?
So, how does spirits look like?
What kind of Shadows do they cast?

FOLYKAZE:
No dear, you are turning everything on it head and robing yourself with confusion.

In your own words, Ogun and the Yoruba Gods can be invoked or consulted with Yoruba language alone. You claimed you have only seen incarnation in Yoruba language only and showed video of a Brazilian praising Ifa in Yoruba tongue.

The reality, like I have informed you is that Ifa can be consulted by someone that speak a tongue different from Ede-Yoruba. The first example is the Nupe people in Niger state, often referred to as Tapa among the Yoruba people. If you can a book written by Wande Abimbola, Oju Odu Merindinlogun, in Irosun Meji that Ọpẹ fọ tapa. Ope in that context is Ifa. The verse added that Ifa speaks tapa even when Orunmila do not understand the language. Till date, Ifa is practised among the Tapa, yet they don't speak Yoruba.

Santeria also consult Yoruba deities as Saints, with a language that isn't Yoruba. It is truth they speak some little Yoruba words but that isn't enough to claim they invoke Yoruba Gods with Yoruba Language only.

If you have issues with antichristian and his religion, deal with that directly rather than dragging Yoruba spiritual system into it. Yoruba heritage won't serve as a yardstick for diccck measuring contest between two abrahamic religion adherent. Thanks

My issue is that I haven't seen/heard any Yoruba incantation or divination recited in some "popular" languages like English, French, Spanish, Dutch, Chinese except as an academic exercise: This is the basis for my discuss/argument (using the Yoruba gods and IFA divination) with the aspiring Islamic jihadist.

If there is just one example of the use of any of these five languages, it would have helped your argument against my apparent generalisation.

It is sufficient to show that a god/deity understand not just one or two languages BUT all languages.

Until then, my argument to the jihadist is valid.

shadeyinka:
So, Light is reflected from a spirits body?
So, how does spirits look like?
What kind of Shadows do they cast?

If your own God is a spirit then spirits can be seen!

And what scientific or biblical proof exists that spirits can be seen?

AntiChristian:
If your own God is a spirit then spirits can be seen!

And what scientific or biblical proof exists that spirits can be seen?

AntiChristian:
Yes, spirits have form and I don't think Adam and Eve did not see God!

You see why I said your IQ is low!?
You are a waste of time.
I have concluded with you