₦airaland Forum

Sizzorkay:
Was wondering the same thing, i saw them as transport helis and wondered why we like buying them, instead of buying standard helicopter gunships or attack helis, you know, those made for that purpose.
These ones just look bare, i don't know, just don't like them.
now don't kill me, just saying

I just want someone to tell me when the HELICOPTER is used to fire its mounted guns is it still regarded as a transport HELICOPTER
or when it makes its first kill it becomes a NON- DEFENSIVE HELICOPTER.

Am I missing something?


www.alamy.com

Belgian Army Augusta A-109 attack helicopter at Florennes airbase Stock Photo: 53803013 - Alamy

LTGEN:
I just want someone to tell me when the HELICOPTER is used to fire its mounted guns is it still regarded as a transport HELICOPTER
or when it makes its first kill it becomes a NON- DEFENSIVE HELICOPTER.

It is what the service intends to use the helicopter for that defines it's designation.

If a service intends to use the A109 primarily as a Close Air Support helicopter, that's what it is.

If a services intends to use the helicopter as a transport helicopter, that's what it would designate it as.

Take for example Colombia, UAE, Belgium just to mention a few countries.

There are add-on kits that come with the military versions of this chopper.
The military versions have good armoring for the crew.
I have posted stuff about the HFORCE package that the manufacturer developed for this chopper. It is one of the best scout/attack solutions in the world. There are at least four combinations of weapons and EO sensors

Ghana Air Force plane over shoots runway.

Tunisian army anti aircraft equipment.

jl115:
Bro if you want to ignorantly believe an A109 is an attack helicopter then go ahead dude

A109 was developed as a utility chopper. These new A109K, A109M and A109EM versions that NAF are buying are for armed/scout purposes.
They have standoff capable canons, rockets and even a small missile.
What I like most about them are the sensors.
They will enable ground troops sense ambushes before the enemy knows they have been detected.
The choppers can engage at standoff distances and destroy ambush positions and gun trucks. These choppers are useful against bandits and Boko Haram (if they are on the move). I won't advise using them against bunkers or well defended positions. MI 35Ms are for that.
The A109s are one third the price of MI 35Ms, easier to maintain for Nigeria because NAF has used the type for more than 12 years.
There are even many civilian pilots/technicians in Naija who can put the chopper in the air in minutes.

It is one of the most sensible procurements made by NAF in recent times..

Jimi24:
A109 was developed as a utility chopper. These new A109K, A109M and A109EM versions that NAF are buying are for armed/scout purposes.
They have standoff capable canons, rockets and even a small missile.
What I like most about them are the sensors.
They will enable ground troops sense ambushes before the enemy knows they have been detected.
The choppers can engage at standoff distances and destroy ambush positions and gun trucks. These choppers are useful against bandits and Boko Haram (if they are on the move). I won't advise using them against bunkers or well defended positions. MI 35Ms are for that.
The A109s are one third the price of MI 35Ms, easier to maintain for Nigeria because NAF has used the type for more than 12 years.
There are even many civilian pilots/technicians in Naija who can put the chopper in the air in minutes.

It is one of the most sensible procurements made by NAF in recent times..

Bro NAF a109s don't have missiles..... And a109s are not AHs they are transports..... Just like mi17s and Oryxs which in the past have also been armed with Missiles and rockets, they are still transports since that's what they were designed for

Just because they might be used in a secondary role for attacking enemy positions, that still doesn't make them AHs

jl115:
Bro NAF a109s don't have missiles..... And a109s are not AHs they are transports..... Just like mi17s and Oryxs which in the past have also been armed with Missiles and rockets, they are still transports since that's what they were designed for

Just because they might be used in a secondary role for attacking enemy positions, that still doesn't make them AHs

simple put they are multirole helicopters which can be configured to suit which ever mission it's assigned to. E.g the American black hawks have been seen acting in fire support roles when the need arises.

please who knows the price of tsaguimi UAV produced by NAF and also how many km square can d camera view at its max altitude

If a helicopter can be configured by its designer's for ground attack.It is an attack helicopter. The question is combat intensity of the environment. AW109's have military versions for ground attack in low intensity environments. It all depends on the threat. Even the Hind we use are not pure "attack" helicopters in the sense of the word,but rather armed transport for high threat environments.
The aw101s which until recently were our VIP/ presidential helicopters are actually used as anti-submarine (Merlin)helicopters by European navies.It just depends on what they have been adapted for.

kabe1:



According to the New York Times, Kenyan soldiers hid in the grass during the attack that saw three Americans killed when al-Shabaab attacked the base.

"Many of the local Kenyan forces, assigned to defend the base, hid in the grass.

Kenyans announced they had captured six al Shabaab, but they all turned out to be "bystanders and were released."

https://www.the-star.co.ke/amp/news/2020-01-22-us-army-criticises-kdf-action-during-manda-bay-attack/?__twitter_impression=true

That's a bunch of bull, blame the African army cause they obviously don't know what they are doing mentality

When you are a sentry and someone attacks your camp, do you all leave your posts and go to where the attack is happening? what if another group of the attackers was waiting in the bush for you to leave your assigned post, and the first attack was the distraction, and as soon as you leave they gained entry to the main camp? did the writer think of that?
If it had been the American sentries who did that it would have been called "Taking cover and holding their position" but because it was the Africans its called "hiding in the grass".

And the capturing and releasing of suspects who were standing at the perimeter fence, Anyone of them could have been :

1. An alshabaab member left behind after being separated from the attackers during the gunfight and was trying to blend in with the crowd.
2. Or could have been standing there with a radio coordinating the attack from a far (Something that actually happened during the garissa attack and thats how one of the suspects now serving life in prison was arrested with a radio,map of the university with drawing of where they would attack, a DVD with radical propaganda..etc)
3. Alshabaab could have left and IED or rigged some explosives and left a guy to wait till military personnel gathered at the location then the guy would remotely detonate the IED while watching right at the edge of the perimeter.
4. Could have been standing at the fence tasked with recording the aftermath with a camera or a smartphone for propaganda purpose.....

--------------
All those are reasons to arrest suspiciously looking people standing by after you have just been attacked, I mean who stands by at the fence of a location that has just been attacked by alshabaab, normal average people run away from the gunfight. [And they were released after being found innocent (but too curious), if KDF was unprofessional, they would have insisted they were terrorists in order to save face] I bet you, if KDF had not bothered to even do that, the same article would have said KDF didn't even cordoned off the perimeter to nab any suspects and just left them to slip away however or whenever they want.
The American planes were about to take off, Like I have told you before, the airstrip side of the camp is very unsecured, so much so that the Americans soldiers in humvees usually place themselves strategically around the runway when planes are taking off or landing to ward off any wild animals or walk ins by people from the bush ---- Where were they this time? They probably got lazy doing that so the blame shouldnt be entirely squared on KDF....

And BTW, if KDF were the cowards that the article wants to paint them, how/where did they find the courage to follow the rest of the fleeing attackers , This was the commander of the attack, he was killed 15km from the camp after being trailed by KDF from the same camp

kabe1:
American troops patrolling in Kenya

For future reference


This is Manda Naval base where Camp Simba and Camp Kiboko are located,

That area they are patrolling, you see that grey stuff on the pic you posted? that's the ballast , found in and around the American camp (you can see it up-close on the last pic)

The Naval base itself is very expansive, Its about 4km lond and 3km wide so thats 12km.sq right there, and it goes all the way to the beach, As you can see about 70% of the naval base is under-developed... That whole area needs patrolling and that job fell solely on the Kenyans, I suspect that's gonna change now and we will start to see more joint base protection, or atleast the Americans will want to be assigned some shifts on the base security.

(This is Fidha254 BTW, the other account has been telling me to wait a few hours to post... its been 2 days now so I decided to create another account.)

oyinpr:
simple put they are multirole helicopters which can be configured to suit which ever mission it's assigned to. E.g the American black hawks have been seen acting in fire support roles when the need arises.

Yes they are utility helicopters and can be used for fire support... However they are not and never will be an AH.

I'm not trying to bash anyone, a109s are great utility helicopters and are a great addition to NAFs fleet..... However they are not attack helicopters as some on here claim.

Stargate254:
For future reference


This is Manda Naval base where Camp Simba and Camp Kiboko are located,

That area they are patrolling, you see that grey stuff on the pic you posted? that's the ballast , found in and around the American camp (you can see it up-close on the last pic)

The Naval base itself is very expansive, Its about 4km lond and 3km wide so thats 12km.sq right there, and it goes all the way to the beach, As you can see about 70% of the naval base is under-developed... That whole area needs patrolling and that job fell solely on the Kenyans, I suspect that's gonna change now and we will start to see more joint base protection, or atleast the Americans will want to be assigned some shifts on the base security.

(This is Fidha254 BTW, the other account has been telling me to wait a few hours to post... its been 2 days now so I decided to create another account.)

Your analysis has been in depth. Now I understand better.

Kabe1 isn't it time to share the SDB 3 new photo.i can't wait o.

NAF A-109k attack helicopter.

kabe1:
NAF A-109k helicopter.

Fixed

kabe1:
Ghana Air Force plane over shoots runway.

At least it doesn't look to badly damaged..........unlike SAAFs C130 which crash landed in the DRC

Kenya Air Force MD-530F helicopter

jl115:
At least it doesn't look to badly damaged..........unlike SAAFs C130 which crash landed in the DRC

The plane would still be out for a considerable amount of time.

kabe1:
Kenya Air Force MD-530F helicopter

Kenyan army you mean

oyinpr:
Kenyan army you mean

Yes, army.

Anti-terror war: Nigerian-made mine-resisitant vehicles perform wonders

The Nigerian Army said its locally manufactured mine-resistant ambush protected (MRAP) vehicles are performing wonders in the on-going counter-insurgency war in the North-East.

The vehicles, nicknamed Ezugwu, after the manufacturer, Major General Victor Ezugwu, and deployed to the North-East were said to have dealt a heavy blow on Boko Haram terrorists who tried to attack some military locations in Borno State, with heavy casualty.

Scores of the terrorists were killed and several arms and ammunition, equipment, food items, drugs and improvised explosive devices (IED) recovered by the soldiers. The army said the indigenous pro-force MRAP employed during the encounter proved to be a reliable fighting machine, as it provided the required mobility, protection and firepower for the troops.

It noted that the lethal war machine has proved beyond reasonable doubt that Nigeria was successful at local defence equipment manufacturing.

https://www.sunnewsonline.com/army-trains-452-commissioned-officers-in-regimentation-leadership/

kabe1:
The plane would still be out for a considerable amount of time.

true

LTGEN:
I just want someone to tell me when the HELICOPTER is used to fire its mounted guns is it still regarded as a transport HELICOPTER
or when it makes its first kill it becomes a NON- DEFENSIVE HELICOPTER.

It's an armed transport heli....
An attack helicopter are those designed strictly for attack. Like Apache, cobra etc.
BTW... The USA do arm their blackhawks with mini guns

jarell:
It's an armed transport heli....
An attack helicopter are those designed strictly for attack. Like Apache, cobra etc.
BTW... The USA do arm their blackhawks with mini guns

Then what about mi35

slimthugchimee2:
Then what about mi35

an attack helicopter with limited transport capability.

SANDF Martine reaction soldier and a Russian marine.

kabe1:
Ghana Air Force plane over shoots runway.

This Plane was at Muritala Dec30th 2019

Definitions are being mixed up,an attack helicopter is a helicopter used for interdiction of ground forces and CAS whether they are armed with rockets,missiles or just simply canons.The principle is to attack ground targets.So what we bought are attack helicopters by the same principle.What is being bandied as "attack helicopters" like the Apache, are anti_armour attack helicopters for high threat and intensity environments.Mi35 is a troop transport helicopter for high threat environments,that is why the Russians have a dedicated anti_armour attack helicopter.Mi 28.
The goal of the Apache was to stop Russian armoured tanks and AAA from rolling into Europe,that is why it is armed with ATGM and protected with heavy armour.That does not mean that helicopters armed with simple cannons are not attack Helios. Such small Helios are the history of attack helicopters.In fact the mangusta is partially based on the airframe of the A109.

kabe1:



According to the New York Times, Kenyan soldiers hid in the grass during the attack that saw three Americans killed when al-Shabaab attacked the base.

"Many of the local Kenyan forces, assigned to defend the base, hid in the grass.

Kenyans announced they had captured six al Shabaab, but they all turned out to be "bystanders and were released."

https://www.the-star.co.ke/amp/news/2020-01-22-us-army-criticises-kdf-action-during-manda-bay-attack/?__twitter_impression=true