₦airaland Forum

budaatum:
I think I could enter Mecca without converting, my Lord. It's not that Muslims get a certificate admitting they are Muslims. I just say "I believe that there is no god/God but Allah and Muhammad is His Prophet", like I do when I post in the Islamic section and I'm in. But I'm sure that's not what you mean. I read views on non-muslims in Mecca. It definitely would be difficult if I went in pilgrim season and insisted I was different, but if I blended in then worshipped my Jesus in private, who's to know?

As to being "taught that". You must mind most are taught "thou shalt not steal", but do steal. Same as being "taught that" and not learning it. You must know lots of Muslims who do not give a damn about dominating others and more who can't even dominate themselves yet not to talk of others. And, you take your "taught that" from boko haram which is not Islamic doctrine!

France, of the [url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libert%C3%A9%2C_%C3%A9galit%C3%A9%2C_fraternit%C3%A9?wprov=sfla1]Liberté, égalité, fraternité[/url], probably has more Muslims immigrants than any other European country. Hope you can see what Islamic dominance is up against in a nation of people who have fought for the freedom to use their brain how they like. Even Turks and Iranians rebel against the dominance you speak of.

Well, I really can't fault your line of reasoning my dear buda, I can only hope Europe in general wakes up to the simmering threat under their noses and fight to keep their hard fought freedoms.

LordReed:
Well, I really can't fault your line of reasoning my dear buda, I can only hope Europe in general wakes up to the simmering threat under their noses and fight to keep their hard fought freedoms.

The point really is that Europe faces no simmering threat from Islam.

We often lament the fact that history is not taught in our schools, but we hardly mention why we lament it not being taught. History is like a development brick (I'd have said block but you might have missed my meaning). Its like one of the building bricks in the development of the ability to see. A lense through which one looks at the world and sees it.

Europe has an extensive history of ideological invasions. They began with hamlets of independent ideologies and waged wars of ideological domination, which all failed, and even though certain ideologies might have triumphed for a while, none, in the entire history of the human race, has killed out all others.

Europe knows that no ideology can possibly be imposed on independent Europeans who know history so history is aggressively taught. And that ability to use their minds and brains to reason for themselves is cemented in them already.

Or do you think Europe can de-evolve backwards like in the [url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Ages_%28historiography%29?wprov=sfla1]Middle Ages[/url]?

CoolUsername:
I want to finish this by saying that I do not hate Muslims in any way. I have a lot of good people in my life that are Muslims. What I do have an issue with is Islam and anyone who takes it literally enough to commit or agree with the violence that it espouses.

To be honest, I'm quite confused on where to even begin with.

First and foremost,

'I don't want my offspring to live in a world where Islamic culture is dominant like I do in Nigeria.'

this is ridiculous, Nigeria is not a country where Islam or the Islamic culture is dominant. This is a blatant lie. Nigerians in general are very religious. Nigeria is one of the most religious countries ever. Muslims like their Christian counterparts are as crazy about religion, and yes there might be more Muslims than Christians, but saying the Islamic culture is dominant in Nigeria. Come on!

2) I do agree western culture has created some of the best times to be alive in all history, but it seems you're implying this to be a result of Christianity. How?

3) You're right about this:
'Stronger kingdoms simply dominated weaker ones', which is why I asked you in the beginning
'First of all, and so? Isn't that what's been happening since the beginning of human history?'

You needn't tell me about how slavery didn't start with Christians and mention the arab trade, when this is only a topic because you fail to see the hypocrisy in your statements.

I told you fron the very beginning that what is happening now, is what has been happening through the course of history. Nothing special. You however went ahead to list the numerous things Muslims did and did not, implying Christianity (not the western culture) is better.
So me mentioning slavery is me asking you how is that better? In fact, you're still yet to mention what Muslims have done that Christians haven't done. Of course, due to the advancement in technology there are now more effective ways of killing people, but that is not my point. I am simply calling you out for the hypocrisy in your statements.

I mean survivors of the holocaust still talk about the trauma they experienced during Hitler's regime. One of Hitler's reasons had been 'This is God's will'. How is that different from a crazy islamist terrorist, who believes he's acting based on Allah's will?


Then you go ahead to say 'It wasn't unique to any race or religion. Colonialism was simply what the strong did to the weak'

Weeeell, darling evil is also not unique to any race or religion, but you've been making it seem so!


4) And also, noooo Christianity never reformed!!!!!!!


And this is where you get it all wrong. Christians (the people in western country) changed. This change is due to a lot of reasons like war, they got more enlightened, the advance in science etc, but Christianity is not one of those reasons!
Somewhere in Africa, Christians are using their Bible to justify homophob actions, while somewhere in Europe some Christians are embracing homosexuals due to the 'love your neighbours as you love yourself' the same Bible preaches!
The change in mindset is due to anything BUT Christianity or the Bible.

This is why I mentioned what Muslims did before the 13th century and how advanced they were.

The western culture is a successful one today based on so many reasons and Christianity is just not one. In fact, if the separation of church and state never happened, Europe would have never been what it is today!


Yes, 'Under Sharia law there is no separation of 'mosque' and state.', but what does this have to do with the Muslim immigrants?!

If you believe Europeans are going to shine their korokoro eyes and enable sharia laws in their countries, then you're on your own. Yes, I did mention the change in North America, Australia and Africa and yes, I do belive changes like the face of an European might change. I do believe languages will be influenced, I do believe there might be CULTURAL changes. These are absolutely normal!

But assuming a change will occur, that is going to require us to move backward, adapt sharia laws muslim immigrants or those with immigrant parents from muslim countries DO NOT EVEN WANT is ridiculous.

You're acting like the Arab spring revolution never occurred, like Muslims aren't yearning for a change, like Turks do not have more in common with a European than an African like YOOOOU, like there aren't a growing number of 'Muslim atheists' and feminists, like Muslim activists aren't pushing for a change!

For your mind, Europeans will start wearing hijab, abi?


Death is natural and it doesn't mean we should all commit suicide. This however doesn't change the fact that we are all going to die someday. So just like death, change is natural. You can slow it down, but it's still going to occur. Just like death, you can't avoid it and just like death, you can whine about not liking it, but it doesn't care


I need to ask a few questions to understand your conclusion. Does having a wife stop you from being sexist? Does having a child exclude you from being a paedophile and does having a black friend stop you from being racist?

Besides, I don't need to go through your posts. I follow you, lmaoooooooo

fieryy:
To be honest, I'm quite confused on where to even begin with.

First and foremost,

'I don't want my offspring to live in a world where Islamic culture is dominant like I do in Nigeria.'

this is ridiculous, Nigeria is not a country where Islam or the Islamic culture is dominant. This is a blatant lie. Nigerians in general are very religious. Nigeria is one of the most religious countries ever. Muslims like their Christian counterparts are as crazy about religion, and yes there might be more Muslims than Christians, but saying the Islamic culture is dominant in Nigeria. Come on!

Spoken like a true Southerner! In northern Nigeria, which accounts for than half of the country's population, Islam is dominant, to the point that most of it's states practice Sharia law with some even having religious (read: Islamic) police.

Now let's compare Sharia law to the law in Nigeria. While it is no secret that Nigeria is a deeply homophobic country and that homosexuality is punishable by up to 14 years imprisonment, Sharia states in Nigeria give the death penalty, i.e. death by stoning for a consensual act. The only people you'd see stoning people to death in the 21st century are Muslims.

fieryy:
2) I do agree western culture has created some of the best times to be alive in all history, but it seems you're implying this to be a result of Christianity. How?

I'm not saying it is as a result of Christianity. I'm saying that Christianity allowed it to happen because its teachings make concessions to the law of the land which later evolved into the separation of church if state.

'Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to the Lord what is the Lord's'

Verses like that one lays the foundation for what helped to divorce the government from religion.

fieryy:
3) You're right about this:
'Stronger kingdoms simply dominated weaker ones', which is why I asked you in the beginning
'First of all, and so? Isn't that what's been happening since the beginning of human history?'

You needn't tell me about how slavery didn't start with Christians and mention the arab trade, when this is only a topic because you fail to see the hypocrisy in your statements.

I'm specifically telling you how it was Christians ended slavery. I'm not saying it was because of Christianity or it was because of any biblical teaching but the truth is that people who identified as Christians were the ones who fought to end it.

fieryy:
I told you fron the very beginning that what is happening now, is what has been happening through the course of history. Nothing special. You however went ahead to list the numerous things Muslims did and did not, implying Christianity (not the western culture) is better.
So me mentioning slavery is me asking you how is that better? In fact, you're still yet to mention what Muslims have done that Christians haven't done. Of course, due to the advancement in technology there are now more effective ways of killing people, but that is not my point. I am simply calling you out for the hypocrisy in your statements.

Any time I argue with an Islamic apologist we always run into this particular roadblock. Yes, I know that Christians sucked throughout history and many still suck till today but the fact is that they generally don't suck as hard as they used to. Muslims, OTOH, have committed atrocities through history and are still committing atrocities till this very day. Modern Christianity is several orders of magnitude better than modern Islam.

For example, you can tell me that both Christians and Muslims are homophobic but when we look at the facts we see the that the Christian doesn't want to bake a cake for a gay wedding while the Muslim throws gays off buildings. At that point is it really honest to say they are just as bad as each other?

fieryy:
I mean survivors of the holocaust still talk about the trauma they experienced during Hitler's regime. One of Hitler's reasons had been 'This is God's will'. How is that different from a crazy islamist terrorist, who believes he's acting based on Allah's will?

Hitler said a lot of things about God over the years but to imply that he was a Christian is quite a reach. He may have believed in God but there isn't much evidence that he was a Christian.

fieryy:
Then you go ahead to say 'It wasn't unique to any race or religion. Colonialism was simply what the strong did to the weak'

Weeeell, darling evil is also not unique to any race or religion, but you've been making it seem so!

Ah sh*t, here we go again. All I am saying is that modern Christianity is the lesser (way way lesser) of the two evils when compared with modern Islam.

fieryy:
4) And also, noooo Christianity never reformed!!!!!!!


And this is where you get it all wrong. Christians (the people in western country) changed. This change is due to a lot of reasons like war, they got more enlightened, the advance in science etc, but Christianity is not one of those reasons!
Somewhere in Africa, Christians are using their Bible to justify homophob actions, while somewhere in Europe some Christians are embracing homosexuals due to the 'love your neighbours as you love yourself' the same Bible preaches!
The change in mindset is due to anything BUT Christianity or the Bible.

I agree with this but the reason such a change is difficult in Islam is due to the nature of the religious itself, Islam specifically dictates the culture of the people and the law of land, there is little wiggle room for reformation without both social and legal backlash which could be violent in nature.

fieryy:
Yes, 'Under Sharia law there is no separation of 'mosque' and state.', but what does this have to do with the Muslim immigrants?!

If you believe Europeans are going to shine their korokoro eyes and enable sharia laws in their countries, then you're on your own.

But assuming a change will occur, that is going to require us to move backward, adapt sharia laws muslim immigrants or those with immigrant parents from muslim countries DO NOT EVEN WANT is ridiculous.

For your mind, Europeans will start wearing hijab, abi?

When the Muslim population reaches a certain size relative to the local population, who will be the Europeans fighting against Sharia?

fieryy:

Death is natural and it doesn't mean we should all commit suicide. This however doesn't change the fact that we are all going to die someday. So just like death, change is natural. You can slow it down, but it's still going to occur. Just like death, you can't avoid it and just like death, you can whine about not liking it, but it doesn't care

Yet, we still warn people about the dangers of smoking and drunk driving. The fact that western culture will evolve doesn't mean it has to be because of Islam.

A few years back, Sweden released a weak, simpering PSA advising immigrants to stop having sexual relations with underage girls because it is against the law of the land. It really has me thinking, is this the standard they're going to hold the millions of immigrants who are coming in to? Because if it is Europe is screwed.

fieryy:
I need to ask a few questions to understand your conclusion. Does having a wife stop you from being sexist? Does having a child exclude you from being a paedophile and does having a black friend stop you from being racist?

The answer is no.

But it your definition of these terms is also important. Is it sexist to acknowledge the fact that since testosterone is linked to aggression and the average man has far more than the average woman, then men are, on average, more aggressive than women? Would it be sexist to acknowledge that since men have a wider IQ distribution than women, it may partially account for higher male prison population and likewise the higher population of make CEOs?

Is it racist to acknowledge crime statistics by race? Like how black people are overrepresented in violent crime statistics in most western countries. Would it be racist to say African technology was more primitive than that of the Europeans and Asians during at the time Europe made first contact? Would it be racist to point out how Nigeria and South Korea gained their independence around the same time and had a similar GDP but since then South Korea has grown exponentially while Nigeria is...well...Nigeria?

So before you call me Islamophobic you need to take the facts into account .

budaatum:
History would tell you that the laws of most countries in Europe would not allow any religion to be imposed on anyone. There's been far too much blood shed for them to go so far backward. And you fail to realise the power of education. Most Muslims in Europe do not breed like you think nor would they accept what Muslims accept in many Muslim countries because of their western education which places huge emphasis 'on use your mind' instead of just gullibly believing what you are told to believe. It's what's killing Christianity and religion in general.

Even though the pagan in the op makes it sound like Europe is practising a religion of paganism, most would laugh in your face if you said "let's go worship" and didn't mean, in a pub.

You dont know anything about brown muslims in europe.

They hate western culture, they do not integrate, but want the benefits an infidel culture has to offer.

lepasharon:
You dont know anything about brown muslims in europe.

They hate western culture, they do not integrate, but want the benefits an infidel culture has to offer.

I do know a lot about European culture.

CoolUsername:
Call it racist or eurocentric, it doesn't change the fact that western culture is a successful one which is why so many Africans and middle easterners run from their failed states to find a better life in Europe. Nigeria is a good example of one of those failed states.



Thanks for bringing up North America, what exactly happened to the Native Americans when the Europeans came? What happened to the Aborigines when the Europeans came? They became minorities in their own land, their culture was decimated, the Europeans brought western values into the land, and those places became a part of the West.

The same would happen in Europe, Muslims will bring in their Islamic culture and unless you're cool with living in Middle East-lite, you may have reservations. Islam does not tolerate dissent, it violently opposes gay rights, women's rights and is inherently antithetical to a lot of western values.



That is no reason to actively encourage the destruction your culture. Cultural integration occurs naturally between compatible cultures, this is an unnatural push by greedy globalists to import cheap labour at the expense of the little guy.

Read up rape statistics in Sweden, read up on the Islamic child-rape gangs in the UK that specifically targeted poor white girls and was downplayed by the police.

If things continue like this resentment is going to build up all over Europe. The pendulum always swings to the extreme before it settles down.

I agree with you 100%

CoolUsername:
The pendulum always swings to the extreme before it settles down.

But it settles down.

I'm amused how you completely disregard the effect of Islam meeting Western culture. Makes me think you don't know Western culture, so, let me.

Western culture went through quite a lot of Jesus Christ. They eventually understood how he is the Word and no one gets Wisdom without it, so they spit on mud (educate themselves) so they can see, but not only that, they evolved further and spat on mud and rubbed it on their other senses so they work too; hence Science, the religion of Use Your Senses, and not that of "Believe What We Tell You To" of medieval Islam you see evading Europe. Europe has evolved passed that and has even gone to the bother to put lots of things in place to ensure they don't go back there.

Besides, Islam has "invaded" Europe in the past. It faded into obscurity by the 19th century.

CoolUsername:
Spoken like a true Southerner! In northern Nigeria, which accounts for than half of the country's population, Islam is dominant, to the point that most of it's states practice Sharia law with some even having religious (read: Islamic) police.

Now let's compare Sharia law to the law in Nigeria. While it is no secret that Nigeria is a deeply homophobic country and that homosexuality is punishable by up to 14 years imprisonment, Sharia states in Nigeria give the death penalty, i.e. death by stoning for a consensual act. The only people you'd see stoning people to death in the 21st century are Muslims.



I'm not saying it is as a result of Christianity. I'm saying that Christianity allowed it to happen because its teachings make concessions to the law of the land which later evolved into the separation of church if state.

'Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to the Lord what is the Lord's'

Verses like that one lays the foundation for what helped to divorce the government from religion.



I'm specifically telling you how it was Christians ended slavery. I'm not saying it was because of Christianity or it was because of any biblical teaching but the truth is that people who identified as Christians were the ones who fought to end it.



Any time I argue with an Islamic apologist we always run into this particular roadblock. Yes, I know that Christians sucked throughout history and many still suck till today but the fact is that they generally don't suck as hard as they used to. Muslims, OTOH, have committed atrocities through history and are still committing atrocities till this very day. Modern Christianity is several orders of magnitude better than modern Islam.

For example, you can tell me that both Christians and Muslims are homophobic but when we look at the facts we see the that the Christian doesn't want to bake a cake for a gay wedding while the Muslim throws gays off buildings. At that point is it really honest to say they are just as bad as each other?



Hitler said a lot of things about God over the years but to imply that he was a Christian is quite a reach. He may have believed in God but there isn't much evidence that he was a Christian.



Ah sh*t, here we go again. All I am saying is that modern Christianity is the lesser (way way lesser) of the two evils when compared with modern Islam.



I agree with this but the reason such a change is difficult in Islam is due to the nature of the religious itself, Islam specifically dictates the culture of the people and the law of land, there is little wiggle room for reformation without both social and legal backlash which could be violent in nature.



When the Muslim population reaches a certain size relative to the local population, who will be the Europeans fighting against Sharia?



Yet, we still warn people about the dangers of smoking and drunk driving. The fact that western culture will evolve doesn't mean it has to be because of Islam.

A few years back, Sweden released a weak, simpering PSA advising immigrants to stop having sexual relations with underage girls because it is against the law of the land. It really has me thinking, is this the standard they're going to hold the millions of immigrants who are coming in to? Because if it is Europe is screwed.



The answer is no.

But it your definition of these terms is also important. Is it sexist to acknowledge the fact that since testosterone is linked to aggression and the average man has far more than the average woman, then men are, on average, more aggressive than women? Would it be sexist to acknowledge that since men have a wider IQ distribution than women, it may partially account for higher male prison population and likewise the higher population of make CEOs?

Is it racist to acknowledge crime statistics by race? Like how black people are overrepresented in violent crime statistics in most western countries. Would it be racist to say African technology was more primitive than that of the Europeans and Asians during at the time Europe made first contact? Would it be racist to point out how Nigeria and South Korea gained their independence around the same time and had a similar GDP but since then South Korea has grown exponentially while Nigeria is...well...Nigeria?

So before you call me Islamophobic you need to take the facts into account .

Damn dude!!! That was good!!! I enjoyed every bit of your comment here.

Christianity itself was an evolution of paganism

So there won't be much change

Are they now worshipping Odin or Zeus?

CoolUsername:
Spoken like a true Southerner! In northern Nigeria, which accounts for than half of the country's population, Islam is dominant, to the point that most of it's states practice Sharia law with some even having religious (read: Islamic) police.

Now let's compare Sharia law to the law in Nigeria. While it is no secret that Nigeria is a deeply homophobic country and that homosexuality is punishable by up to 14 years imprisonment, Sharia states in Nigeria give the death penalty, i.e. death by stoning for a consensual act. The only people you'd see stoning people to death in the 21st century are Muslims.



I'm not saying it is as a result of Christianity. I'm saying that Christianity allowed it to happen because its teachings make concessions to the law of the land which later evolved into the separation of church if state.

'Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to the Lord what is the Lord's'

Verses like that one lays the foundation for what helped to divorce the government from religion.



I'm specifically telling you how it was Christians ended slavery. I'm not saying it was because of Christianity or it was because of any biblical teaching but the truth is that people who identified as Christians were the ones who fought to end it.



Any time I argue with an Islamic apologist we always run into this particular roadblock. Yes, I know that Christians sucked throughout history and many still suck till today but the fact is that they generally don't suck as hard as they used to. Muslims, OTOH, have committed atrocities through history and are still committing atrocities till this very day. Modern Christianity is several orders of magnitude better than modern Islam.

For example, you can tell me that both Christians and Muslims are homophobic but when we look at the facts we see the that the Christian doesn't want to bake a cake for a gay wedding while the Muslim throws gays off buildings. At that point is it really honest to say they are just as bad as each other?



Hitler said a lot of things about God over the years but to imply that he was a Christian is quite a reach. He may have believed in God but there isn't much evidence that he was a Christian.



Ah sh*t, here we go again. All I am saying is that modern Christianity is the lesser (way way lesser) of the two evils when compared with modern Islam.



I agree with this but the reason such a change is difficult in Islam is due to the nature of the religious itself, Islam specifically dictates the culture of the people and the law of land, there is little wiggle room for reformation without both social and legal backlash which could be violent in nature.



When the Muslim population reaches a certain size relative to the local population, who will be the Europeans fighting against Sharia?



Yet, we still warn people about the dangers of smoking and drunk driving. The fact that western culture will evolve doesn't mean it has to be because of Islam.

A few years back, Sweden released a weak, simpering PSA advising immigrants to stop having sexual relations with underage girls because it is against the law of the land. It really has me thinking, is this the standard they're going to hold the millions of immigrants who are coming in to? Because if it is Europe is screwed.



The answer is no.

But it your definition of these terms is also important. Is it sexist to acknowledge the fact that since testosterone is linked to aggression and the average man has far more than the average woman, then men are, on average, more aggressive than women? Would it be sexist to acknowledge that since men have a wider IQ distribution than women, it may partially account for higher male prison population and likewise the higher population of make CEOs?

Is it racist to acknowledge crime statistics by race? Like how black people are overrepresented in violent crime statistics in most western countries. Would it be racist to say African technology was more primitive than that of the Europeans and Asians during at the time Europe made first contact? Would it be racist to point out how Nigeria and South Korea gained their independence around the same time and had a similar GDP but since then South Korea has grown exponentially while Nigeria is...well...Nigeria?

So before you call me Islamophobic you need to take the facts into account .

johnydon22:
Damn dude!!! That was good!!! I enjoyed every bit of your comment here.

Is stoning to death not also part of Jewish law
Ain't the average jew even more liberal than the average Christian despite Judaism being much more conservative than xtianity?
Isn't gay marriage legal in Israel? You want to say it's because the Torah/old testament grants concessions bla bla bla or due to its nature itself.
A lot of factors come in play on how people have come to practice a faith,and it's not necessary due to some intrinsic nature of the faith itself.
A sufficiently "advanced race" will find a way of freeing itself from what it seems "shackles" of its faith and even start quoting verses to justify its position.
"give to Ceasar what belongs to Caesar" - tell that to xtians like OLAADEGBU,or the evangelicals.Even the Catholic church doesn't recognise a separation of church of state.A truly objective interpretation of that verse says nothing of such ,or whatever verses they use to support homosexuality,or banning slavery etc had they been atheists all these would have happened long ago.They did all that despite xtianity,not because of it.
Homosexuality was once tolerated in the Ottoman Empire while it was very illegal in the west.Turkey is almost 100% Muslim yet things like gay marriage are legal and it's secular.They also do provide so-called Islamic quotes to support their views.

Most Europeans believe in Evolution.

That is to say, when the elders of a conscious community performed a street poll, the results combined with other global statistics allows us to conclude that at the very least, every 5 out of 10 Europeans believe in the 'Theory of Evolution', and thats not including the Atheist, Free-thinkers, Naturist, Sports, those that just cant be bothered e.t.c

The Abrahamic religions combined amounts for around 20% of the demographic.