LordReed:


They are very much the same. In either case, a celestial/divine being is asked to provide answers to questions. And in either case neither divine/celestial being is available for a response.

elated177:



Do you really know what you are comparing?

I asked a question. He suggested that l asked his god Zeus. I told him to go ask his god and bring the answer here. How is it not different from I asked for your real id and you told me to ask my God?

My God, YHVH Almighty, is very much alive and answers even before call on him.

Do you believe lightning was created?

LordReed:


You asked him to ask Zeus.

I asked you to ask Yahweh.

What is so hard to see the similarities here?

No, lightning was not created. It is the result of the interaction of physical systems.

elated177:



Let it slide.


You mean the interaction between positive charges and negative charges, huh?

I know what science, physics, precisely, has taught us in that regard. You will agree with me that among physicists, the issue - the cause of lightning, by that very fact the cause of thunder - is still very much speculative. As in, it is still shrouded in mystery. There is not a unanimous opinion as to the cause of lightning. After all, it has not been replicated or simulated in any lab, according to my research, that is.

Physics has taught us, albeit not conclusively and still subject to speculation, that lightning is caused by the interaction between positive and negative charges, some form of supernatural power must be responsible for the existence of such charges. That is, such power created the charges that create the lightning and thunder. Do you agree?

It is pertinent to point out right now that what I have stated here and will state, as far as this discourse is concerned, is purely and entirely spiritual and not educational - in the sense of academic. As a physicist, I will always teach learner exactly what physics has taught me. So, any secondary school physics student who reads this should stick to what he or she has been taught in physics class bordering on this issue.

LordReed:


What do mean has not been simulated in a lab? Look up Van de Graaff generator and Tesla coil.

No I don't agree that there is any supernatural causation to the the interaction that produces lightning. It follows the same pattern all natural phenomena follow, an interaction between component systems producing a new and/or greater effect.

The unknowns are no cause to assert that a supernatural causation is the producer, that is argument from ignorance, I don't know therefore it is supernatural. Can't you see how foolish that is? I don't know therefore I know? How does that make sense?

elated177:



Can't you just have a mature discussion without resorting to insult? I am trying to teach you one or two things here.

Did Van Dr graaf generator and Tesla coil actually recreate lightning and thunder as the occur in the atmosphere? Show me the source of your info.

I thought we have been down this road before. Or may be it was on different thread with someone else. I will check.

There are natural laws, rules and principles natural phenomena follow. Such laws, rules or principles were created or put in place by a the Creator of all things. Since this is the case, the Creator can exercise great influence on such natural phenomena.

For instance, natural has it that when seeds are planted, they sprout, bloom, mature and are harvested. The Creator, who made such law, can decide to cause such plants to die by making the weather unfavorable.


The point is this:


Natural phenomena such as, rainfall, wind, lightning and thunder, etc, operate on certain laws, rules or principles assigned to them by their Maker. It means, therefore, that these natural phenomena can be influenced by their Maker directly or indirectly through his human agent.

The sun is not left out. It, the sun, operates by the laws assigned to it. The intensity of the light(sunlight) produced by the sun can either be increased or reduced by its Maker, directly or indirectly through his human agent.

This is the message YHVH Almighty, the Creator of the heavens, the earth, the seas and everything in them wants to use this thread to pass across to you and the other "atheists." Believe in his existence or not, he remains who he is --- the Aleph and the Tev, the Beginning and the End, the Alpha and the Omega, the Mover and the Shaker of everything in the entire universe. There is no other like him.

Isaiah 45:

11-12 YHVH, the holy God of Israel, the one who shapes the future, says: "You have no right to question me about my children or tell me what I ought to do! I am the one who made the earth and created the human race to live there. By my power I stretched out the heavens; I control the sun, the moon, and the stars.


Seek him while you can


El Elohe Yahshrael! Hallelu Yah!

LordReed:


Who is insulting you? I said such a conclusion is a foolish conclusion. You claim to know what you do not know.

You asked for lightning being reproduced in a lab, how did you expect it to be exactly like in the sky?

These arguments are nothing but god of the gaps arguments. Now that we understand better that there is no being sitting in the heavens and hurling lightning you move your god to being the creator of the laws natural phenomenon rely on. When I ask you ask your god a simple thing, you cannot produce a simple result, yet we are supposed to believe that this same god created the very laws everything depends on. If your god was the creator of the laws of the universe it would not have required the thousands of years men have been studying natural phenomena to get to where we are nor would have need labs. Your god would have revealed it to you in your churches and homes. Instead you only come to assert things with no proof and no backing for your assertions.

elated177:



How and where did I claim what I don't know?


Provide me with the source. My research has not given me any info in that regard. I am not talking about electricity that runs in wires.


Did you overlook this?


It means, therefore, that these natural phenomena can be influenced by their Maker directly or indirectly through his human agent.

The sun is not left out. It, the sun, operates by the laws assigned to it. The intensity and the temperature of the light (sunlight) produced by the sun can either be increased or reduced by its Maker, directly or indirectly through his human agent.

LordReed:


I meant to write you cannot claim to know what you don't know.

Look it up yourself, the information is readily available. I have given you the start point.

Just another assertion you cannot justify. Can you command the apparent motion of the sun to cease? Can you make it rain inside a house? Can you make a place light up without a light source? The fact is you cannot bypass the laws of nature which is why you cannot do these things, if your god existed or is the maker of the laws of nature you'd be able to do them.

LordReed:


Just another assertion you cannot justify. Can you command the apparent motion of the sun to cease? Can you make it rain inside a house? Can you make a place light up without a light source? The fact is you cannot bypass the laws of nature which is why you cannot do these things, if your god existed or is the maker of the laws of nature you'd be able to do them.

elated177:



Are you sure you are getting the point at all?

I have amply stated that YHVH Almighty, my Daddy in the sky, owns and rules over nature. He made the laws of nature and the celestial bodies and the other natural phenomena they govern. He can exert and exercise influence over them. What are you not getting?

LordReed:


Ask your daddy to make it rain inside a room.

HellVictorinho:

Ask him why he believes in God.
We're all born atheists.
But crap enters your head and it's almost impossible to detect it's nature as nonsense.

LordReed:


Actually we are born to seek out a teat to suckle on but some of us never grow past that stage, thinking there is some cosmic teat to suck on.

elated177:



Remove the roof of your house and see how it will rain inside it.

HellVictorinho:

Hmmm
Could you be of help,sir?
I've got some matters.

LordReed:


Oh but you want scientists to make lightning in a lab. See how you are?

elated177:



Do you know of any scientist that can make it in the atmosphere?



You are trying to change the present line of discourse.

LordReed:


If I can. What's up?

LordReed:


You are trying to be unreasonable. You claimed your god is the creator of the laws of nature and can manipulate it at will. Asking you provide a demonstration of this sees you turning to sophistry.

Did I claim scientist can make lightning? You who made a claim cannot defend the claim.

elated177:



Where did you ask for a demonstration?

LordReed:


Ask your daddy to make it rain inside a room.

LordReed:

elated177:


Remove the roof of your house and see how it will rain inside it.

LordReed:


LMFAO! Why do I need to remove the roof, your god is not powerful enough to make it rain while the roof is on? Fake almighty. Bwahahahahaha!

mmsen:
Atheism = no belief in gods.

It doesn't mean that they claim to know everything.

That is one of the many problems with religion, it convinces the ignorant that there is one source for all of their questions.

elated177:



It is obvious you're always looking for an opportunity to mock. Sadly for you, there is no room for mockery here.

YHVH Almighty can do it, but I will never ask him for such. Why should I? Of what point will it be? He who dwelt in the burning bush can do all things.


Can you, a man, get pregnant? Is it possible?
Why do we have shelter? Didn't he give man the idea of shelter to protect him from rain!

You're not satisfied with the fact that YHVH Almighty, Father of my Master and Saviour, Yahushua the Messiah, and my Father, made all the natural phenomena - rainfall, lightning and thunder, wind, sunlight, etc, and all the laws which govern them and he exerts and exercises authority and influence over them, directly or through his his human agent, his saint/servant.

You deliberately acted like you didn't see it because it didn't give you an opportunity to mock. I have said it many times; you are a God-hater. You are no atheist. You know very well that the Creator exists. You just hate him and his servants because of the demons operating in you and through you. I pity the gullible folks here who take you and your false atheism seriously.


The Scriptures are very true: "Do not give sacred things to dogs." "Do not throw your pearls to pigs."

LordReed:


You made an assertion but given the opportunity to prove it you back up like a skittish horse.

It's not my problem what you can't prove. Call me anything you like your god remains fake as long as you can't prove it.

elated177:



Opportunity to prove what?


You have stated that lightning and thunder, wind, rain, etc, are just natural phenomena and were not created. I explicitly stated that they were created or made. You vehemently refused and asserted that they just follow natural laws. I, again, equivocally stated that the laws which govern them were created and that their Creator or Maker exerts and exercises control or influence over them. I didn't mince words in stating that YHVH Almighty, the Creator of all the natural phenomena, can influence them them directly or indirectly through his human vessel.

Whatever else you are asking for is just a diversion. When next it is raining, remove the roof of your house and see how it will rain in it.

Isaiah 5:20 You are doomed! You call evil good and call good evil. You turn darkness into light and light into darkness. You what is bitter sweet, and what is sweet you make bitter.

Isaiah 6:9-10 So he told me to go and give the people this message: "No matter how much you listen, you will not understand. No matter how much you look, you will not know what is happening." Then he said to me, 'Make the minds of these people dull, their ears deaf, and their eyes blind, so that they cannot see or hear or understand. If they did, they might turn to me and be healed."

LordReed:


Yes an opportunity to prove your assertion that your fairytale Yahweh is in control. But Yahweh is just your mind muppet so he can't do anything.

We have seen the how natural phenomena work so your claim that it is just an assertion is typical of people like you who will deny reality just to empower the images in their heads. Show us how your god can control natural phenomena becomes a song and dance. You didn't mince words but you certainly mince actions and action is where it counts. Stating that your god is in control is as useless as raincoat for fish when you cannot demonstrate it in any practical or meaningful manner.

elated177:



Can you point anywhere that I have ever used Yahweh in my discussion with you?


I didn't get the bolded.


Lol...! And demonstration is making it rain inside a house? Right! Hilarious?

LordReed:


Yahweh is the popular rendering of YHWH, don't act like you don't know.

You called my saying lightning is a result of physical/ natural processes a mere assertion.

Yes. If you know anything about experimenting you will know there is something called control. You can't ask for a repeat of the same parameters when trying to find out what is causing a phenomenon. You must vary the parameters to eliminate the likelihood of chance occurrence. The control for such an experiment means there is no way it will rain by chance in a room. Do you understand now?