₦airaland Forum

okooyinbo:
Exactly! Or what do you think was responsible for the Kenyans killing themselves after their last general elections with the subsequent "power sharing"? An average African is an "ethnic chauvinist". They have been practising that even before the advent of Europeans. Slave trade was very successful due to the hate Africans have for one another, even within the same ethnic group. The ethnic bashing that goes on on Nairaland is a miniscule of what transpires in the real world.

Another lazy argument.

Most modern  countries are nation states i.e States formed from "tribes". So for example U.K is composed of the English, Scot, welsh, Irish and racial minority "tribes". Spain has the Castillians, Andalucians, the Basques, Catalonians, etc. Ditto Singapore with her Hun Chinese, Cantonese, Fujianese, Malay and Indians. It would intrest you to know that Belgium has surpassed Iraq as the country that has gone the longest without a Government http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/18/belgium-marks-250-days-no-government all because of foolish 'tribalism" between the Vlaams (Flemish) and the Walloons.

Yet, Belgium works very well. The economy is humming along nicely, there is no violence, poverty or disease. Actually, Belgium is one of the richest countries on earth (and the chocolates around Bruxelles's Grote Markt are delicious!!).

So it's not tribalism my friend. it's something else. low IQ, perhaps?

[quote author=My-Key link=topic=727224.msg8852760#msg8852760 date=1312457040]Another lazy argument.

Most modern  countries are nation states i.e States formed from "tribes". So for example U.K is composed of the English, Scot, welsh, Irish and racial minority "tribes". Spain has the Castillians, Andalucians, the Basques, Catalonians, etc. Ditto Singapore with her Hun Chinese, Cantonese, Fujianese, Malay and Indians. It would intrest you to know that Belgium has surpassed Iraq as the country that has gone the longest without a Government http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/18/belgium-marks-250-days-no-government all because of foolish 'tribalism" between the Vlaams (Flemish) and the Walloons.

Yet, Belgium works very well. The economy is humming along nicely, there is no violence, poverty or disease. Actually, Belgium is one of the richest countries on earth (and the chocolates around Bruxelles's Grote Markt are delicious!!).

So it's not tribalism my friend. it's something else. low IQ, perhaps?[/quote]Well, you can not tell me the history of the BELGIANS. An average African is an ethnic chauvinist, and an average Europeans is "potentially" a racist. The Problem between the Flander and the Wallone is a relatively new thing and the groundlining problem is "monetary" rather than ethnic. If it were ethnic, they would have separated long time despite the neutral "royal family". The problem of the Belgium can in no way be compared to what transpires in Africa. The IQ arguement you are proposing is the most lazy and quite inappropriate. You seems not to understands what an IQ is. Quite immature! If you want to be politically correct, having a low IQ is just not the appropriate word for being "dumb". Ofcourse Afrcans are to some extent very dumb. There are quite a great number of people with high IQ who are dumb (in other words senseless, irrational, not using their cognitive apparatus well etc.).

[quote author=My-Key link=topic=727224.msg8852011#msg8852011 date=1312450879]All lazy arguments.

Tribalism has no place in this. [b]Otherwise, Somalia, with her one tribe, one culture [/b]and one religion would be the epitome of prosperity.[/quote]It's either you are willfully ignorant or just unnecessarily obstinate. You are the one running around with wrong examples here. Somalia is very tribal. Tribalism is at the root of their conflict and politics. Read about Somalia and talk to Somalians. I have. They will give you enough examples and you can simply Google. Quit being arrogantly silly too.


Just another self-hating African running around with western soundbites, if this one becomes an African Leader today, he's probably start looking down on his people and start stealing public money because he feels everyone around him is dumb anyway.

Somalia with one tribe? low IQ? what a very lazy DOOOFUS.

Clan politics dictate the future of Somalia - Africa & Middle East - International Herald Tribune
By Jeffrey Gettleman

New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/22/world/africa/22iht-somalia.4295219.html

Read that and tell me how that is not tribalism, even clan is worse than tribe. being smaller.

Many politically aware Somalians will tell you the problem they have with clan politics and the recent futile attempt by Islamists to subdue clan identities under hard-line Islam, which apparently is not working. BTW, Religion is an ideology too, it could be good and bad, if a nation cannot buy into a religious idea nationally it becomes an issue too. but Somalian politics/conflict is extremely clannish.

[quote author=okada_man link=topic=727224.msg8853741#msg8853741 date=1312465067]It's either you are willfully ignorant or just unnecessarily obstinate. You are the one running around with wrong examples here. Somalia is very tribal. Tribalism is at the root of their conflict and politics. Read about Somalia and talk to Somalians. I have. They will give you enough examples and you can simply Google. Quit being arrogantly silly too.


Just another self-hating African running around with western soundbites, if this one becomes an African Leader today, he's probably start looking down on his people and start stealing public money because he feels everyone around him is dumb anyway.

Somalia with one tribe? low IQ? what a very lazy DOOOFUS.


Read that and tell me how that is not tribalism, even clan is worse than tribe. being smaller.

Many politically aware Somalians will tell you the problem they have with clan politics and the recent futile attempt by Islamists to subdue clan identities under hard-line Islam, which apparently is not working. BTW, Religion is an ideology too, it could be good and bad, if a nation cannot buy into a religious idea nationally it becomes an issue too. but Somalian politics/conflict is extremely clannish.[/quote]I don't think you get it.

Tribalism has nothing to do with poverty. As I showed earlier, European "tribalism" is much worse than the African variety. The Scots and Welsh hate the English, the English hate everybody, the Flemish hate the Waloons, Catalans and Madrilenos (Castillians) cannot stand each other (What do you think the "el-classico in the Spanish Liga Primera is ? A "tribal" contest!!) The Scandinavians have been colonizing each other for centuries. Even the Japanese have significant Ainu and Han minorities ("Tribes".

Yet, these are some of the most prosperous, peaceful, healthy countries on earth.

You have to admit (despite the semantics), that Somalia is the most heterogeneous country in Africa, yet the only contribution of Somalis to the world is Anarchy and Piracy, famine and unimaginable poverty.

No, it's not Tribalism, it's something else.

Low IQ maybe? if not, what? Rational answers, please.

I've been reading the book From Third World to First : The Singapore Story: 1965-2000 by Lee Kuan Yew over the past few days.

Just as a bit of background, Singapore is a tiny island nation in Southeast Asia that was formerly a British colony. It gained independence in 1963, joined a federation with Malaysia, and was kicked out of it by Malaysia (in part due to ethnic/political differences.)

So you have this very poor island nation with no natural resources whatsoever. Not even enough drinking water; they sourced their water from Malaysia. Surrounded by hostile countries like Malaysia and Indonesia who tried hard to enslave it through military and economic means. Yet despite this adversity, through excellent leadership Singapore is today one of the richest countries on earth.

Reading through his book, I got a very bad impression of Malaysia. Basically they come across as bigoted, backwards xenophobes. Yet despite all of this, even Malaysia has done a lot better than Nigeria: http://i55.tinypic.com/2iuqki1.png
(from the World Bank)

So where exactly did we go wrong as a country and continent? What excuse do we have for failure over the past 40 years? Singapore did it, and is not blessed with the natural resources that Nigeria is. People expected Singapore to fail, yet it succeeded.

This book has given me a lot of hope about how good leadership can set a country on the right path, but also made me a bit sad about how bad Africa has been run.

[size=15pt]The leaders rulers have failed to create synergy between culture and technology.[/size]

Again, I ask,

Where are the African Lee Kwan Yeuw, Artuturk, Deng Xiaoping, David Ben-Gurion, Vladimir Putin, Why aren't more Sir Seretse Khama and Fasholas elected in Africa? WHY? Why is the African elite , even those with an Ivy League education so incredibly silly and thick?.

It's just that, uniquely among other human beings, we utterly refuse to do anything about our predicament. We are unable or unwilling to do so. And come to think of it, most leaders in Africa are elected, its a poor reflection of the voters in general.

Meanwhile, Africa has given almost nothing to anybody apart from raw
materials, political shenanigans, complaints and self pity.

The genius, energy and strength of the Japanese people that created
their economy after WW2  cleared up after March's disaster in Fukushima. And you can be sure they will do this with stoicism, energy,
planning, intelligence, courage and calm.

But even as they bury their thousands of dead, one thing you will not
hear from the Japanese is complaint or self-pity.

So, is it simply tribalism or something else? Answers please

[quote author=My-Key link=topic=727224.msg8852577#msg8852577 date=1312455490]Let's leave the straw man's argument for now and concentrate on the main point, all right?[/quote]And you should have done that rather than come in here to condescendingly refer to points raised as "lazy arguments" and then ignorantly say "Somalia is one tribe". That is "acting learned", "my friend".

[quote author=My-Key link=topic=727224.msg8853801#msg8853801 date=1312465627]I don't think you get it.

Tribalism has nothing to do with poverty. As I showed earlier, European "tribalism" is much worse than the African variety. The Scots and Welsh hate the English, the English hate everybody, the Flemish hate the Waloons, Catalans and Madrilenos (Castillians) cannot stand each other (What do you think the "el-classico in the Spanish Liga Primera is ? A "tribal" contest!!) The Scandinavians have been colonizing each other for centuries. Even the Japanese have significant Ainu and Han minorities ("Tribes".

Yet, these are some of the most prosperous, peaceful, healthy countries on earth.

You have to admit (despite the semantics), that Somalia is the most heterogeneous country in Africa, yet the only contribution of Somalis to the world is Anarchy and Piracy, famine and unimaginable poverty.

No, it's not Tribalism, it's something else.

Low IQ maybe? if not, what? Rational answers, please.[/quote]It is good to ask questions, The hope is that it will lead to answers, I believe that is the intention of the OP, to get answers.

But throwing around accusations of laziness when your own assumptions are lazy and incorrect cannot go unchallenged, glad we cleared that up.


Now, I don't think anyone here said Tribalism = Poverty, at least i'm yet to read that argument here. But some of us are pointing to the lack of cohesion and unity, something I attributed to the absence of strong and unifying national ideologies.


Now you are bringing up IQ, how do you fix "dumb"? especially when it is "genetic"

I ask because many proponent of this slow African IQ talk often end their arguments with silly phrases like -Africans are naturally less intelligent than Europeans, -Africans cannot form city states, Africans cannot govern themselves, genetics is responsible, the sun is too hot and other borderline Joseph Conrad like racist assumptions.

Nigeria and Africa have goon wrong in many ways and we are still getting it wrong right here,

I will like address some of the comments been paste in here, that Singapore made progress due to the facts that they went apart and that Nigeria will be better off apart and I think that Nigeria's success is in our hand, and we must fight to for our goals and learn to stand for it when needed and most great nations have more cultural, tribal religious diversity and they could show forth of great achievement.

During the colonial rules Nigeria have always been with or more tribes than ever and history have made us to know that there are some instinct tribes in Nigeria region proving that we have lost more tribes and language and if the British could rule Nigeria with a single unity, it breaks every ground that we cannot do better as a country.

Lagos as a state is bigger than countries in Africa e.g Burundi, Rwanda, Cape Verde name it, and most of those small Nations are not doing good and the US as a nation is bigger than Nigeria and could show signs of greatness, Iran is just fine, and if we Nigerians don't wake up to tackle our problem ourselves our children will continue in our footsteps of hoping that things will change someday, rather they will wait like our fathers had thought that when we have independent from the white man things will change, and they waited to hope, waited to suffer, waited to die and today you and I are still waiting that our children will be able to change it, no if there will be change it must start from you.

Smaller states in Nigeria are just struggling to pay their handful of government workers keep the roads graded, keep kerosene for our lamps, Garry for lunch, without no better plans for the future and they don't see beyond the same predecessor's agenda to change the system, how can they think of the country in general.

So ethnic differences does not have any problem with Nigeria development, but until serious measures are taking we will continue to believe that ethnic differences is a major problem. Also until all Nigerians start seeing the ability to lead his country his business, and not to be looking for a god sent good leader which will or may not come,

Tribalism is never Nigeria problem as the same mistake we make as a nation we are making it as an individual that our problem is in an issue or the other rather our problem is that we don't know what is the problem and until we all turn around from the way it is done and choose to be the change we can and stand for it always,

<quote>

So where exactly did we go wrong as a country and continent?

</quote>

Ekt,

I know people have shared many opinions to answer this question. My own opinion is one reason are responsible.

1. Tribal customs.
The spirit of a people is interwoven with their psyche which is deeply anchored with who they are which is chained to their customs and rituals.

The moment you de-tribalize a people then they become demoralized and loose self-identity.
When identity is gone the psyche and the humanity is impacted and behavioral intincts change. A detribalized person is a lost conscience.

[quote author=okada_man link=topic=727224.msg8854222#msg8854222 date=1312469632]It is good to ask questions, The hope is that it will lead to answers, I believe that is the intention of the OP, to get answers.

But throwing around accusations of laziness when your own assumptions are lazy and incorrect cannot go unchallenged, glad we cleared that up.


Now, I don't think anyone here said Tribalism = Poverty, at least i'm yet to read that argument here. But some of us are pointing to the lack of cohesion and unity, something I attributed to the absence of strong and unifying national ideologies.


Now you are bringing up IQ, how do you fix  "dumb"? especially when it is "genetic"

I ask because many proponent of this slow African IQ talk often end their arguments with silly phrases like -Africans are naturally less intelligent than Europeans, -Africans cannot form city states, Africans cannot govern themselves, genetics is responsible, the sun is too hot and other borderline Joseph Conrad like racist assumptions.[/quote]I think aspects of African culture are incompatible with Modernity.

Mind you, modernity does not equal Westenization. I once saw a Shinto priest in Tokyo, Japan, blessing a Bullet train in an ancient  ritual. I could not marvel that Japan is very traditional, but very modern as well.

Africans are fun loving, happy smiley folk, but we don't plan and organize too well, we live for today. The concept of the State doesn't make sense to us so we foolishy retreat to tribalism "in toto" not  just socially like the Europeans, and ignore the common good. In a modern society, the state funds pensions and looks after the sick and educates the young and provides an enabling environment for all to thrive-both silly and clever. In Africa, we rely too much on familial bonds, hence we have too many children to provide us with "pensions", even if we cannot take care of them properly.

PLANNING, planning, planning, We don't know the meaning of the word. African lives are not guided by rational, logical thought processes because for the most parts there are no viable state institutions. Instead, we have Potemkin or Shell states. We have Ministries of Labour which don't create any jobs and Central Banks which never have any money. Even the little money that is there is frivoulously wasted on shiny buildings, vehicles and generous Per Diems, never on the core function, the Raison d'être.

So, then African States are "Shell States", only making sense to those that benefit from it-the politicians, the merchants in bed with politicians and  with their "contracts", public servants who get salaries and per diems, etc. To most other people, their "State" is other things-their family, their tribe, etc.

But, the irony is, there is no alternative to a modern, functioning State, just ask the Somalis,

[quote author=My-Key link=topic=727224.msg8852760#msg8852760 date=1312457040]It would intrest you to know that Belgium has surpassed Iraq as the country that has gone the longest without a Government http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/18/belgium-marks-250-days-no-government all because of foolish 'tribalism" between the Vlaams (Flemish) and the Walloons.

Yet, Belgium works very well. The economy is humming along nicely, there is no violence, poverty or disease. Actually, Belgium is one of the richest countries on earth (and the chocolates around Bruxelles's Grote Markt are delicious!!).[/quote]So you expect all the loot of centuries to disappear in a twinkle? The richest countries in the world (apart from Switzerland. . .well. . . Switzerland benefited indirectly) have their foundation on all the loot from conquered, or should we say "colonized" nations. All of that won't vamoose suddenly. Nigeria was without a president for several months; what was affected? That just goes to show that a government might not be so useful after all.

ALL of the European ethnic groups have had series of wars lasting ages even before Jesus was born, and still had one ending just in 1945 so they should have developed mutual respect for one another, and understanding. You've had Saxons, Gauls (Francs et cetera), Vandals and Huns all who were interestingly collectively referred to as Barbarians by the Romans. They were all a savage marauding group and they were so destructive that they brought the "Dark Ages" with them, to the point that were it not for the Arab scholars most of the Philosophy of the Greeks and Romans would have vanished. Yet these are the same people we refer to as "The Civilized World" today in countries like Germany (Saxons and Vandals), France (Gauls), et cetera. So what does this have to do with IQ? If anything it is all about brutality.

But being of the same "tribe" does not necessary result in synergy. And various "tribes" can achieve that synergy over a long time as they develop understanding and respect for one another just as the Barbarians did.

[quote author=My-Key link=topic=727224.msg8855251#msg8855251 date=1312477219]I think aspects of African culture are incompatible with Modernity.

Mind you, modernity does not equal Westenization. I once saw a Shinto priest in Tokyo, Japan, blessing a Bullet train in an ancient  ritual. I could not marvel that Japan is very traditional, but very modern as well.

Africans are fun loving, happy smiley folk, but we don't plan and organize too well, we live for today. The concept of the State doesn't make sense to us so we foolishy retreat to tribalism "in toto" not  just socially like the Europeans, and ignore the common good. In a modern society, the state funds pensions and looks after the sick and educates the young and provides an enabling environment for all to thrive-both silly and clever. In Africa, we rely too much on familial bonds, hence we have too many children to provide us with "pensions", even if we cannot take care of them properly.

PLANNING, planning, planning, We don't know the meaning of the word. African lives are not guided by rational, logical thought processes because for the most parts there are no viable state institutions. Instead, we have Potemkin or Shell states. We have Ministries of Labour which don't create any jobs and Central Banks which never have any money. Even the little money that is there is frivoulously wasted on shiny buildings, vehicles and generous Per Diems, never on the core function, the Raison d'être.

So, then African States are "Shell States", only making sense to those that benefit from it-the politicians, the merchants in bed with politicians and  with their "contracts", public servants who get salaries and per diems, etc. To most other people, their "State" is other things-their family, their tribe, etc.

But, the irony is, there is no alternative to a modern, functioning State, just ask the Somalis,[/quote]I disagree with you. A lot of the problems are tied to the political/economic systems many Africans have decided to adopt. Massive bureaucratic nation states, heavily socialized economies, and republican political systems. Such a model is bound to fail on a continent possessed of severe levels of poverty, ethno-religious fractures, individualistic mindsets, and to a great extent stagnant cultures/absurd beliefs.

I think Africans need to adopt political and economic systems that reflect(if not embrace) the African continents diversity. I believe that federated autonomous cities(no quite city states) modeled similar to Singapore, Hong Kong, Luxembourg could do this. Cities are where most upward mobility takes place and where people seeking to escape poverty go.

A free market oriented city that is selective of its denizens, will not have to deal with the issues of urban sprawl that plague African cities now. Namely, having to provide services to whoever decided to migrate for free. No system can afford to provide resources and infrastructure to anyone and everyone. In this way human and material capital can be better accumulated/directed towards enticing investment.
I believe that is one reason Chinese cities are more effectively planned and managed. Unlike in Africa(and India for that matter), you just cannot walk into XYZ city and call yourself a citizen.

Moreover,military coups should they happen, would be limited to smaller city states instead of massive nation states. Also, since a city will be more likely to depend on revenue from citizens, the coup plotters would still have to maintain the status quo else drive people away.

Even if it is an issue of culture or even intelligence(which I doubt), Africa does not have to experience the unequivocal failures it is now.

No one has said in terms how the heterogeneous nature of Nigeria prevented electricity or any meaningful development. I know the ethnicity argument, it's very hard to go against it . . its a cul-de-sac- a dead end,' since we share no common heritage we cannot progress together' PERIOD (how can you go against that?). What the proponent of such position fail to grasp is the meaning of development and how it is acquired . . The ethnicity argument is only useful in a conflict debates it has nothing to do with development i.e ethnic differences may cause war and disagreement which prevents development, however in a 40 year period of peace the problem cannot be ethnicity but decisions taken by the leader . . . (This is my take)

In specific: i think oil is an obstacle to development in Nigeria, the structure of government is another impediment (we need parliamentary system), counsel from IMF and World bank is the biggest one on my list.

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=727224.msg8854909#msg8854909 date=1312474301]1. Tribal customs.
The spirit of a people is interwoven with their psyche which is deeply anchored with who they are which is chained to their customs and rituals.

The moment you de-tribalize a people then they become demoralized and loose self-identity.
When identity is gone the psyche and the humanity is impacted and behavioral intincts change. A detribalized person is a lost conscience.[/quote]Exactly - I agree, I do not like the word TRIBE its degrading however Nigerians need to look towards developing their cultures to move forward, the combination of so many developed cultures will be magnificent.

logica:
But being of the same "tribe" does not necessary result in synergy.

It will do if their is good LEADERSHIP

logica:
And various "tribes" can achieve that synergy over a long time as they develop understanding and respect for one another just as the Barbarians did.

Collective synergy between undeveloped cultures with no common ground will take forever! Nigeria is a classic example of that. What Barbarians are you referring to?

Africa is blessed and cursed at the same time.We are blessed with resources but cursed with selfish people.The average African is not his brother keeper.We fight ourselves over everything and we always want to dominate over our brothers.

Once an african gets some small change he wants to be called a chief and he wants his relatives and peers to bow down to him.It is the "big boy" syndrome which almost all Africans and blacks suffer from and that is why we are the most backward race on the planet.Bottom line we are a selfish race.In Yoruba we say : "Imo tara enikan"

Until we adjust our mentality and learn to be selfless, Africa will always will be backwards.Just take a look at The Dangotes ,The Adenugas ,our minister ,our president,our Nass members,Oprah e.t.c They are all selfish people who only care about the bank accounts,their power and their fame.They do not genuinely give back to society.Every thing they do ,they do for show and for their personal benefit, That is the general mentality of the black man.

This is the reason why there is NO SINGLE black nation that is successful on the planet.South Africa which i once hoped will be the shinning light of Africa and the black race is starting to turn into a banana republic since the current government out of greed is planning to nationalize the private sector and turn the country into a mordern day U.S.S.R.

There are too many square pegs in our race that we will never fit into the round holes in Africa.I am on standby and hoping that one day i will meet like minded people and we can start a real revolution that will be driven by our concern for fellow Africans and not greed.Once we get rid of the selfishness in our blood ,then we can begin to talk about leadership.

playmode:
Africa is blessed and cursed at the same time.We are blessed with resources but cursed with selfish people.The average African is not his brother keeper.We fight ourselves over everything and we always want to dominate over our brothers.

Once an african gets some small change he wants to be called a chief and he wants his relatives and peers to bow down to him.It is the "big boy" syndrome which almost all Africans and blacks suffer from and that is why we are the most backward race on the planet.Bottom line we are a selfish race.In Yoruba we say : "Imo tara enikan"

Until we adjust our mentality and learn to selfless, Africa will always will be backwards.Just take a look at The Dangotes ,The Adenugas ,our minister ,our president,our Nass members,Oprah e.t.c They are all selfish people who only care about the bank accounts,their power and their fame.They do not genuinely give back to society.Every thing they do ,they do for show and for their personal benefit, That is the general mentality of the black man.

This is the reason why theirs is NO SINGLE black nation that is successful on the planet.South Africa which i once hoped will be the shinning light of Africa and the black race is starting to turn into a banana republic since the current government out of greed is planning to nationalize the private sector and turn the country into a mordern day U.S.S.R.

There are too many square pegs in our race that we will never fit into the round holes in Africa.I am on standy and hoping that one day i will meet like minded people and we can start a real revolution that will be driven by our concern for fellow Africans and not greed.Once we get rid of the selfishness in our blood ,then we can begin to talk about leadership.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOL. good point though

Once an african gets some small change he wants to be called a chief and he wants his relatives and peers to bow down to him.

For example in Yoruba culture do the young not have to bow down to their elders? Are all those older people who insist young ones should bow down rich? Try to stop your self hatred and consider the fact that it may be a cultural trait.

It is the "big boy" syndrome which almost all Africans and blacks suffer from

Dose bombing another country thousands of miles away and telling the leader to leave or “we will continue to bomb” sound like a “big boy” syndrome? Dose killing millions of people for oil and other resources sound like a “big boy syndrome”? In fact its more like a GOD like syndrome. stop your self hatred!

yeswecan:
[size=15pt]No one has said in terms how the heterogeneous nature of Nigeria prevented electricity or any meaningful development. [/size]

You have answered your own question by contradicting yourself:--

yeswecan:
[size=15pt]since we share no common heritage we cannot progress together' PERIOD (how can you go against that?). [/size]

nolongTing:
For example in Yoruba culture do the young not have to bow down to their elders? Are all those older people who insist young ones should bow down rich? Try to stop your self hatred and consider the fact that it may be a cultural trait.

Dose bombing another country thousands of miles away and telling the leader to leave or “we will continue to bomb” sound like a “big boy” syndrome? Dose killing millions of people for oil and other resources sound like a “big boy syndrome”? In fact its more like a GOD like syndrome. stop your self hatred!

Dude you need to read and comprehend.You misinterpreted my comment.What i said is the truth and has got nothing to do with self hatred.

This debate is getting very interesting, at least for now and hope it says that way.

Africa's biggest enemy is ignorance. Ignorance in most cases is a consequence of lack of education. Education is what builds the human capacity to change its circumstances with ideas and vision. Democracy can never thrive in a society where people haven't got a clue what it means let alone appreciate their place in the scheme of things.

I can understand the views expressed to do with tribalism, political systems, economic issues etc. However, the ability for humans to rise above their prejudices and short comings is made easier with knowledge. Knowledge comes from education. You cannot grow any economy or develop any nation without a sound educational system that supplies the quality human resources and skilled manpower that is a pre-requisite for wealth creation. This will only be possible with an educational system that is modern, well resourced and with a highly trained manpower.

http://hilonah-educationthatworksfornigeria..com/
http://apenandaheart..com/

playmode:
Dude you need to read and comprehend.You misinterpreted my comment.What i said is the truth and has got nothing to do with self hatred.

I read what you had to say and it was impulsive, emotional, sloppy and littered with value jugements; perhaps you could point out what I did not comprehend or maybe you are suffering from your so called "big boy syndrome", if not why would you reply with one line?

@nolongTing . .

You took my words off context and misinterpreted my comment . . . I see you also did it to someone else .

yeswecan:
@nolongTing  . .

You took my words off context and misinterpreted my comment  . . . I see you also did it to someone else .

whats with this  misinterpreted nonsense, you are copying one another, its so G-a.y! just use your brain or admit you are wrong simple - Mirroring    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirroring_(psychology)

nolongTing:
I read what you had to say and it was impulsive, emotional, sloppy and littered with value jugements; perhaps you could point out what I did not comprehend or maybe you are suffering from your so called "big boy syndrome", if not why would you reply with one line?

Congratulations professor ,"too know dey kill sha".You are trying to prove to everyone that i do not know what i am talking about because you want to appear more learnered than i am.Who is suffering from the "big boy syndrome" now? In case you did not realise you are way off point ,how does people bombing other countries pertain to my first comment    Over sabi na disease.

If you do not get my point then you have no business being here because you are just an example of the square pegs which i was talking about: people who think they know everything but fail woefully because they are way off key. I mentioned a common trait of  black people and you are whinning about self hatred.You can not become better if you do not take correction.

Answer these questions :

Are African leaders not selfish people?

Haiti that is the first independent black nation on the planet is today a failed because of ?

I am expecting your answer genius!

This is not a "whose Joystick is bigger contest".The Op asked a question ,the best you could have done is to counter my argument in a constructive and intelligent manner not ramble away about an irrelevant issue such as "self hatred".

Nija4Life:
Knowledge comes from education. You cannot grow any economy or develop any nation without a sound educational system that supplies the quality human resources and skilled manpower that is a pre-requisite for wealth creation. This will only be possible with an educational system that is modern, well resourced and with a highly trained manpower.

http://hilonah-educationthatworksfornigeria..com/
http://apenandaheart..com/

We need an education system better then modern. The world over nations are groaning under the strains of there education systems. The truth is the modern educational system is very old http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system.

The education systems of most nations(if they have one) since the 19th century has involved forcing batches of children to go to a building where they must sit and listen to some adult talk at them from a board. They are then tested and reassigned buildings/rooms. This process is then repeated once every years for 9-12 years. Rarely are the intellectual/personal interest of the children considered and when it is their interest are always secondary. People with different learning styles are stymied and or punished with the threat of failure/retention.

How can this possibly be the best way to educate people and nurture creativity/intellect.

playmode:
Congratulations professor ,"too know dey kill sha".You are trying prove to everyone that i do not know what i am talking about because you want to appear more learnered than i am.

lol! Please show me where I attempted to do so – you appear to have an inferiority complex.

playmode:
Who is suffering from the "big boy syndrome" now? In case you did not realise you are way off point ,how does people bombing other countries pertain to my first comment

OMG you cannot fathom how killing millions of people equates to your colloquial term “ big boy syndrome? Maybe I am wasting my time here.

playmode:
If you do not get my point then you have npo business being here because you are just an example of the square pegs which i was talking : people who think they know everything but fail to admit when they way off key. Instead an obvious trait of  black people and you are whinning about self hatred.

You are accusing, abusing and quite frankly you are amusing! You was degrading yourself and your entire family and I simply told you to stop it.

Idehn:
We need an education system better then modern. The world over nations are groaning under the strains of there education systems. The truth is the modern educational system is very old http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system.

The education systems of most nations(if they have one) since the 19th century has involved forcing batches of children to go to a building where they must sit and listen to some adult talk at them from a board. They are then tested and reassigned buildings/rooms. This process is then repeated once every years for 9-12 years. Rarely are the intellectual/personal interest of the children considered and when it is their interest are always secondary. People with different learning styles are stymied and or punished with the threat of failure/retention.

How can this possibly be the best way to educate people and nurture creativity/intellect.

In addition to that, the education needs to be based on culture. For example an African child has to learn a European language or Arabic before he/she can study and be considered intelligent enough to contribute to society. Imagine how much faster Africa would develop if Degrees were done in the peoples native language? If the African leaders had started developing the framework from the 60s imagine the results today in science and technology.

I think a simple answer to your question is "LEADERSHIP". Trust me Good Leadership can overcome all issues that have been mentioned so far. We need Visionary Leadership and i am convinced that we cannot get it with the current crop of Leaders (both in Nigeria and Africa as a whole).

BTW I have always figured that to solve a lot of our economic problems, we need to go BIGGER not Smaller. By BIGGER, I mean that the Economic space has to be BIGGER than a single country, thus Tarriffs, Taxes, Borders ETC need to be non-existed amongst most sub-saharan african countries and trade & competition encouraged. So rather than competing with only the Businesses in your individual countries, you have the entire sub-saharan africa as your competition. (but we know france for instance has prevented french speaking countries from integrating with their african neighbors).

I think another important issue that needs to be tackled is CORRUPTION. This issue is endermic in all African countries, it is a Cancer that needs to be tackled with everything we got. I believe that the best way to tackle corruption is transparency in Governance - political, Business, and Religious.

nolongTing:
lol! Please show me where I attempted to do so – you appear to have an inferiority complex.

OMG you cannot fathom how killing millions of people equates to your colloquial term “ big boy syndrome? Maybe I am wasting my time here.
You are accusing, abusing and quite frankly you are amusing! You was degrading yourself and your entire family and I simply told you to stop it.

Lol! I thought so,your inability to answer the two questions i posed to you shows that replying to you was a waste of comment space.I see you have no respect for others since it is so easy for you to mention my family even though you do not know me personally.

You should endeavor to engage your brain before you speak and evaluate the consequences of your comments as it affects others. In future do not mention my family or any other person's family in your comments because it is very disrespectful and distasteful.I guess we can all get back to the topic now instead of derailing the thread with childish mumbo jumbo that is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Idehn:
We need an education system better then modern. The world over nations are groaning under the strains of there education systems. The truth is the modern educational system is very old http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_education_system.

The education systems of most nations(if they have one) since the 19th century has involved forcing batches of children to go to a building where they must sit and listen to some adult talk at them from a board. They are then tested and reassigned buildings/rooms. This process is then repeated once every years for 9-12 years. Rarely are the intellectual/personal interest of the children considered and when it is their interest are always secondary. People with different learning styles are stymied and or punished with the threat of failure/retention.

How can this possibly be the best way to educate people and nurture creativity/intellect.

We need to learn to walk before we can run. If we achieve anything near the Prussian education you alluded to then we would have made a quantum leap in progress.

The success of any educational system is measured in terms of outcome. Japan and USA, two countries mentioned in the link you posted are highly successful nations. Nothing can be more modern than modern itself I’m afraid. We are million miles behind the so called Prussian system. Our best bet is to strive to develop a modern educational system and then we will worry about the next steps.

To set the records straight, in modern education, there is something called Assessment for Learning, where the students are at the very heart of the teaching and learning process. At least, I can equivocally state that I teach in a modern educational system where students are not forced to sit and listen to some adult talk at them from a board neither does it fail to take into account students with different learning styles.