₦airaland Forum

logica:
What dodgy aid are you referring to? Will any sensible person give out aid if he knew it was all like throwing water in a basket, or maybe it's nothing compared to what they gain by continuing to ensure Africa never stands up especially when you know it all ends up in the wrong hands and is never used for development? Was that how they disbursed aid to Europe? Their "aid" is nothing but payouts to their cronies for their cooperation. No more.

Again reaching out to the Lumumba example,  which would have benefited Congo more for instance - their poisoned chalice aka aid or the nationalization of the mines as he intended, which got them scared shitless? They very well know the aid they throw in the direction of Africa is of no use and they are perfectly satisfied it is as it is. So if for instance you were my guardian, and I have come of age, and I tell you I want to work and earn a living; it makes sense for you to rather give out some money to a dubious uncle to dash me as stipends than allow me to find a job and be useful so that I can sustain myself, and fully knowing the nature of that uncle of mine since you (the guardian) had used the dubious uncle on occasion for your dirty work (who also happens to be a thief and supplies you with a steady stream of stolen goods)? Will I not starve to death?

And of course they org.asm on how well it works out when self-loathers like you say "Oh they gave us aid and we can't do anything with it. we are useless."

So, in your imaginary world, the Marshall plan that followed WW2 was not "aid"? How about the aid given to rebuild Japan, Korea, Singapore, et al? Why did they use theirs wisely, to invest in their children while we invested in our own vanity?

If the aim of the wicked Imperialists was to eliminate all progressive leaders from the developing world and stifle Africa's progress, how come they didn't do the same to Artuturk, Lee Kwan Yeuw, Sir Seretse Khama, et al.? What makes Africans have children that they cannot take care of-is that a Western plot too? How about the waste, inefficiency and lack of probity?

An evil conspiracy? Nigger please!!!!

Interesting post from EKT BEAR.

9jaganja, Odumchi etc, some thought provoking discission.

My comment will be on  TRIBALISM. I disagree with anyone uing tribalism as excuse for under development, even in the most homogenous countries like UK, US etc you will still find division/differences along ethinic lines

Think for a minute, is it Tribalism that caused outright failures of govenors in states where they lead people of their own tribe? Even at the most grass root level, is it tribalism that make LG chairmen and their cohort to loot treasury, then this are supposed to be the closest trbal kinsmen?

I tell you we are a nation full of GREED and COPRRUPT individuals, we really do not care for each other, the mentality of I BETER PASS YOU has pervaded our country, we threw moral values of PATIENCE, PERSEVANRANE, DILIGENCE AND HARD WORK to the wind in favour of get rich quick mentality. No surprise that Bank chiefs that we deem worthy ot awards and acolades actually are thieves worthy only to be thrown into prison, they should be followed quickly by all past and erving governors, ministers etc. We see the same trend all across the spheres on our dear country, churchleaders are not interested in nation building or welfare of member, but only in personal aggrandisement

I have to agree 100% with EKT BEAR on our lack of visionary leaders, we've done it again, voted mediority/corruption into power and are expecting miracle. When God is about to deliver His people He gives them leaders that often lead them out of problems, and if the leader messes up, it beomes time for regime change, so a new/better leader can emerge

@ EKT BEAR et all, can we brainstorm on the following observations:

The average diaporan talks down on happening in naija, having the memtality that they have escaped, no care for millions of people that did not have the ame esape route - We need to genuinely care for ourselves

The average bank worker/Telecoms worker/Oil ompany worker say naija is making progress and thing are getting better, he forgets the multitude of people still languishing in abject poverty, okada man that needs to pay school fees for 3children or lowly paid teacher living from hand to mouth, they will not share your naija is getting better omment, because they can feel it - We need to genuinely care for ourselves

Politician engage in proganda, suggesting how much work they are doing on the infastructure front, I chanllenge their pregnant wife to deliver their next child in the same muhroom hospital that under-equiped, where people are dying everyday, they are quick to send their wards for the best medical treatment they can find abroad -We need to genuinely care for ourselves

I dont see much of Tribalism at the local level because WE DO NOT GENUINELY CARE for the next guy who speaks the same language as you

God bless Nigeria

yeswecan:
@nolongTing

I agree with you that "western education cannot be easily applied to African problems . ,   because it is based on European culture". My fear though is that education itself is based on European culture. So is religion, morality the list goes on. I think we just just have to accept it because the world is more eurocentric that we realise.

nice to know we agree on something

Idehn:
Still, in a world where competition in manufacturing is increasing, they cannot afford to continue educating people this way. Nor can Africans afford to emulate a system that does so as well.

It is pretty bad all around.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10053859/ns/us_news-education/t/us-college-drop-out-rate-sparks-concern/

You misunderstood my point - I was agreeing with you and emphasising the shortcomings of the educational system.

Idehn:
Child driven education does not have to be aimless. This guy (Sugata Mitra), showed that children are there own best teachers.
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/sugata_mitra_the_child_driven_education.html

Interesting, it seems to be at an experimental phase and not widely adopted however its the kind of "out of the box" type of thinking Africa needs.

@9jaganja

9jaganja:
The fear of death is the beginning of suffering!!

A thread is still fresh in our heads about Diasporans saying they owe Nigeria nothing and therefore have no responsibility to build Nigeria. What kind of responsible person says that?

9jaganja:
We have people like Soyinka who are constantly voicing out their opinions, Soyinka's role when they didn't want to handover administrative power to Jonathan was very vital,  The man left all he was doing and came to Nigeria,

Is Soyinka not a so called Diasporan? 

oludunamis:
Interesting post from EKT BEAR.

9jaganja, Odumchi etc, some thought provoking discission.

My comment will be on  TRIBALISM. I disagree with anyone uing tribalism as excuse for under development, even in the most homogenous countries like UK, US etc you will still find division/differences along ethinic lines

Think for a minute, is it Tribalism that caused outright failures of govenors in states where they lead people of their own tribe? Even at the most grass root level, is it tribalism that make LG chairmen and their cohort to loot treasury, then this are supposed to be the closest trbal kinsmen?

Take the word Tribe and Tribalism and throw them in the bin, they are degrading words! Developed people do not refer to themselves as tribes.

Try to think about Culture, what is culture?

oludunamis:
I tell you we are a nation full of GREED and COPRRUPT individuals, we really do not care for each other, the mentality of I BETER PASS YOU has pervaded our country, we threw moral values of PATIENCE, PERSEVANRANE, DILIGENCE AND HARD WORK to the wind in favour of get rich quick mentality.

Here comes your contradiction:--

oludunamis:
The average diaporan talks down on happening in naija, having the memtality that they have escaped, no care for millions of people that did not have the ame esape route - We need to genuinely care for ourselves

You expect them to care for GREEDY, CORRUPT … your words not mine.

oludunamis:
I dont see much of Tribalism at the local level because WE DO NOT GENUINELY CARE for the next guy who speaks the same language as you

God bless Nigeria

Who are the “WE” you refer to? Its common knowledge that the disenfranchised and poor will only care about food and shelter but once that changes they will start to engage with politics and their ethnic group wil matter.

Child driven learning is nothing more than an extension of independent learning. Of course extended application will be different, but as he has shown it is a far more efficient/effective model than the current one. I do not think it needs to be implemented whole sale like the current model is. It should start small working out issues/kinks. If it is a better model, and I believe that it is, it parents will choose to send their kids to acquire this kind of education. The problem with the current model is that these kind of alternatives are not allowed to exist.

Again, we need to learn to walk before we can run. Our system of education is yet to adopt and promote the concept of independent learning. Let us first master that, and then we will worry about the small matter of extension. Once again let me point to the fact that what Sugata Mitra did was a controlled experiment and in educational research you don’t make generalisations with a small sample. Even with a large sample, you need to be careful how you generalise.

How could you say it is a better model when you are yet to mention one nation that has successfully used it? Interestingly also, how do you measure success? Like I mentioned in one of my previous post, educational success is measured by outcome and some of the nations that are still using the current system are successful nations i.e. Singapore, Malaysia, and Japan etc.Finland has arguably the best educational system in the world but they do not use this model that you are advocating.

It does not mean that we have to do away with educators. However, the role of the educator is far more dynamic. Educators will have to actually work at attracting students to there courses instead of getting a steady batch by government fiat. Making courses interesting, productive, and valuable to all concerned parties(School,parents, and children).

The role of educators is to guide and advise young people, in collaboration with parents about what is best for their children. Educators can attract students to their courses but for the right reasons so we don’t end up reducing a fine and noble profession to just marketers. It should be based on interest and ability of the students and not for bumping up numbers. I speak from experience and training as an educational professional myself.
Do also remember students only start making choices at the end of junior secondary and end of senior secondary school. What happens in primary and junior secondary schools where students do the same subjects, does your theory of ‘attraction’ still hold sway?


Teaching is not marketing I’m afraid where professionals should be judged by the ability to attract students. Teachers are judged by their ability to support, guide and develop young people to make both academic progress and improve on their social skills.
There will always be the odd one or two incompetent teachers like you have in any profession anyway. But when there are too many of them then you have to question the teacher education and training program that produced them in the first place. Please read my education blog, I have written some articles where this is addressed in more depth: http://www.hilonah-educationthatworksfornigeria..com/

In fact, if income was tied to the number of students a teacher attracts the reputation of the teacher will be even more important. Teachers bad at educating, may find that there students cannot get into the robotics course they wanted. They will either have to improve(emulating methods of better teachers) or risk having few students take their course again(if any). Good teachers may even be inclined to start classes on just teaching a certain subject for extra income.

Fear of the unknown is no reason to continue the stagnation of the current system. We need innovation not more of the same.

Let’s not innovate for the sake of innovation. We need to adopt a system that has proved successful to many nations which we could adapt to suit our own peculiar needs and environment. It will be very naive to go for a system that is yet to be tried and tested in any country. You are yet to address how this will work in practice. In education you need the theory to inform the practice but also need the practice to inform the theory.

[quote author=My-Key link=topic=727224.msg8858880#msg8858880 date=1312530504]So, in your imaginary world, the Marshall plan that followed WW2 was not "aid"?
An evil conspiracy? Nigger please!!!![/quote]Of course history is imaginary when you don't know it or learn from it. Here is a list of progressive leaders who were not allowed to contribute as much because of course they wouldn't serve the master's interests:

Patrice Lumumba - outright murdered. This I have already highlighted.
Obafemi Awolowo - framed for treason. The British head of the "Nigerian Army" eventually owned up.
Kwame Nkrumah - ousted via CIA involvement. For more check here http://www.seeingblack.com/x060702/nkrumah.shtml

The link on Nkrumah has this:

"The plotters are keeping us briefed," he noted, "and the State Department thinks we're more on the inside than the British. While we're not directly involved (I'm told), we and other Western countries (including France) have been helping to set up the situation by ignoring Nkrumah's pleas for economic aid. All in all, it looks good."

Was that the aid you talk about? In Africa, aid cannot be provided to a progressive leader who has the interests of his people at heart. It is only provided to despots and thieves. If you don't know how to read, I repeat (hoping you catch it even if I have to repeat a few more times), "was the 'aid' given to Africa disbursed as it was to Europe and Asia"?

The list goes on but I think I have made my point. But then you don't see them. You would rather be asking where our own equivalent of some leaders are, when all the information you need is right in front of you.

"Nigger"? Is that a Freudian slip? Your white singlet (that was peeking a bit from onset) and white thong is to showing from under your fake and torn black adornment. I'm sure you feel white don't you (that's not if you are actually white)? Kindly take a walk, Uncle Tom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwame_Nkrumah

Nkrumah attempted to rapidly industrialize Ghana's economy. He reasoned that if Ghana escaped the colonial trade system by reducing dependence on foreign capital, technology, and material goods, it could become truly independent. However, overspending on capital projects caused the country to be driven deeply into debt—estimated as much as $1 billion USD by the time he was ousted in 1966.

We also had visionary leaders trying to develop our countries at the time Singapore and the rest were starting off. Nkrumah was on the right path of industrialization but he needed aid. You can read the below on how much aid he got from the West.

"The plotters are keeping us briefed," he noted, "and the State Department thinks we're more on the inside than the British. While we're not directly involved (I'm told), we and other Western countries (including France) have been helping to set up the situation by ignoring Nkrumah's pleas for economic aid. All in all, it looks good."

You can imagine what his vision would have done to Ghana had he succeeded; dependence on imports from Europe and America (and even Asia) would have vanished. I don't quite think our overlords would have slept much at that thought.

And oh, while that plot was going on, the most visionary leader in Nigeria at the time was languishing in jail for trumped up charges. Not long before, Lumumba had been murdered. And all these were going on as the Asian Tigers were getting off the starting block just as we were. Connect the dots. Conspiracy theory? Please remove the "theory". It was a conspiracy, pure and simple.

oludunamis:
Interesting post from EKT BEAR.

9jaganja, Odumchi etc, some thought provoking discission.

My comment will be on  TRIBALISM. I disagree with anyone uing tribalism as excuse for under development, even in the most homogenous countries like UK, US etc you will still find division/differences along ethinic lines

Think for a minute, is it Tribalism that caused outright failures of govenors in states where they lead people of their own tribe? Even at the most grass root level, is it tribalism that make LG chairmen and their cohort to loot treasury, then this are supposed to be the closest trbal kinsmen?

I tell you we are a nation full of GREED and COPRRUPT individuals, we really do not care for each other, the mentality of I BETER PASS YOU has pervaded our country, we threw moral values of PATIENCE, PERSEVANRANE, DILIGENCE AND HARD WORK to the wind in favour of get rich quick mentality. No surprise that Bank chiefs that we deem worthy ot awards and acolades actually are thieves worthy only to be thrown into prison, they should be followed quickly by all past and erving governors, ministers etc. We see the same trend all across the spheres on our dear country, churchleaders are not interested in nation building or welfare of member, but only in personal aggrandisement

I have to agree 100% with EKT BEAR on our lack of visionary leaders, we've done it again, voted mediority/corruption into power and are expecting miracle. When God is about to deliver His people He gives them leaders that often lead them out of problems, and if the leader messes up, it beomes time for regime change, so a new/better leader can emerge

@ EKT BEAR et all, can we brainstorm on the following observations:

The average diaporan talks down on happening in naija, having the memtality that they have escaped, no care for millions of people that did not have the ame esape route - We need to genuinely care for ourselves

The average bank worker/Telecoms worker/Oil ompany worker say naija is making progress and thing are getting better, he forgets the multitude of people still languishing in abject poverty, okada man that needs to pay school fees for 3children or lowly paid teacher living from hand to mouth, they will not share your naija is getting better omment, because they can feel it - We need to genuinely care for ourselves

Politician engage in proganda, suggesting how much work they are doing on the infastructure front, I chanllenge their pregnant wife to deliver their next child in the same muhroom hospital that under-equiped, where people are dying everyday, they are quick to send their wards for the best medical treatment they can find abroad -We need to genuinely care for ourselves[/b]I dont see much of Tribalism at the local level because [b]WE DO NOT GENUINELY CARE for the next guy who speaks the same language as you

God bless Nigeria

You hit the nail right on the head.Our general mentality as a people has to chnage if we are to see any progress in this continent.

I will give you an example from South africa: The president of ANCYL (African National Congress Youth League) JULIUS MALEMA is currently under scrutiny.This a guy who is always starring up trouble and claming to be fighting for the poor.Recently it was discovered that he had a trust fund account which he was using to receive bribes from private businesmen in order to help them secure government tenders.This guy who claims to be a man of the people and a representative of the youth just demolished a R3.6 million (N72 million) home which he bought a few years ago cash and is now building a R16 million (N320 million) mega mansion which will feature a bunker and underground tunnel.Now this is a guy whose official salary is R25,000 (N500,000) per month.

He drives around in a 2011 Range Rover ,wears $100,000 wristwatches but claims to be fighting for the poor and fighting against capitalism (since he is a communist).Guess how old he is ?  Just 29.Just 3 years ago this guy had less than R300,000(N6million) in his bank account but recent  investigations revealed that he now has about R58million (N1.1billion) in his account.Now in the past 4 years since he became the youth league president he has not created any jobs or done anything that will remotely benefit the youths.Yet the dumb youths of SA are worshipping him and calling the next president of SA.

Now he has instituted the debate about nationalization and the ruling party (ANC) are now saying that they will implement nationalization in the near future.They want to nationalize farms ,banks ,mines e.t.c  SA was a world class country under Apartheid but ever since Mandela took over,it has been going down hill. Government departments are now incompetent,service delivery is non existent,corruption has spiralled out of control and unemployemnt has risen to 25% .South African black leaders were handed a world class country on a platter of Gold .A country that had and still has world class infrastructure , a lucrative tourism market ,active local industries e.t.c but they are slowly but surely running the country aground.FDI has reduced in the last year from R5.1 billion to R1.1 billion.Investors are starting to be scared of investing in SA due this nationalization bullcrap they have been flauting about.

What is SA's excuse,surely they cannot blame the west ? They can not blame Apartheid any longer ,it ended over 20 years ago.So why can't they get their act together    **sighs** This is Africa!

THIS IS THE MOST WONDERFUL THREAT THAT I'VE EVER COME ACROSS IN MY HISTORY OF USING The INTERNET.

Thank you so much for starting this discussion, even though some ppl in here want to turn it into something else, most of you have made interesting, progressive contributions.

To answer the question though, I think in Africa we have one problem and that problem is LEADERSHIP. Every once in a while every nation gets a leader that is selfless in leading its people to prosperity. We Africans lack suck calibre of people, and when they do come along, they tend to get corrupted along the way, instead of grooming and giving opportunity to new such-like leadership.  (think Mugabe and Mubarack).

Here in South Africa we are sitting with the same problem, a lack of genuine leadership.

It is my experience that no matter the nations' level of education, tribal attitutes, economic status, but when they have a leader who is dedicated to building, and not looting, the people will follow.

A lot of South Africans were not happy with the Mandela's and the Sisulu's negotiating with the white man back then, but they followed because they knew without a shadow of a doubt that those leaders had their best interests at heart.

We need to teach political science at school level, so our children know where we come from. What it took for us to gain our independence so that they can value it. and they can understand the values of our forefathers who fought for this independence. We also need to teach our children about all these other countries all you learnered comrades have already mentioned, so we know what options we have in building our countries. This is when we are creating good leaders of the future.

We need to have these conversations as the African youths, and I hope this doesn't end here!

Lots of good posts.

BTW, this google public data site is pretty damn cool imo. Some other countries I wanted to compare:

http://i54.tinypic.com/ru8xsm.png

As of 1980, China and India basically indistinguishable from these African countries. Today, 31 years later, China has zoomed past all of us.

So what lesson did China learn that we failed to learn?

I don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with the African man BTW. But there seems to be something that many other people get but that the African man, the Pakistani man and certain other groups have not. Chinese man didn't seem to get it either as of 1980, but today he understands.

edit: stupid error, was thinking of something else

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=727224.msg8860598#msg8860598 date=1312545832]Lots of good posts.

BTW, this google public data site is pretty damn cool imo. Some other countries I wanted to compare:

http://i54.tinypic.com/ru8xsm.png

As of 1980, China and India basically indistinguishable from these African countries. Today, 31 years later, China has zoomed past all of us.

So what lesson did China learn that we failed to learn?

I don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with the African man BTW. But there seems to be something that many other people get but that the African man, the Pakistani man and certain other groups have not. Chinese man didn't seem to get it either as of 1980, but today he understands.

edit: silly error, was thinking of something else[/quote]If may ask ,why did you mention "the pakistani man" ?

playmode:
If may ask ,why did you mention "the pakistani man" ?

Click the link. Pakistan is no better off than Nigeria (at least in this gdp/capita sense, which is mostly what I care about.) And they've been as stagnant since 1960 as Nigeria and the rest of the African countries I compared.

So they don't seem to have figured it out either.

playmode:
If may ask ,why did you mention "the pakistani man" ?

What a silly question, next you'll be asking why mention Bangladesh dummy!

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=727224.msg8860598#msg8860598 date=1312545832]Lots of good posts.

BTW, this google public data site is pretty damn cool imo. Some other countries I wanted to compare:

http://i54.tinypic.com/ru8xsm.png

As of 1980, China and India basically indistinguishable from these African countries. Today, 31 years later, China has zoomed past all of us.

So what lesson did China learn that we failed to learn?

I don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with the African man BTW. But there seems to be something that many other people get but that the African man, the Pakistani man and certain other groups have not. Chinese man didn't seem to get it either as of 1980, but today he understands.

edit: silly error, was thinking of something else[/quote]First of all the Chinese elite rejected western culture and adapted their unique brand of communism. For example dose Nigeria have a cultural policy? I think not. The Chinese always tell the west they don't need democracy, so why are African countries clamouring for DemoCrazy? What is your definition of culture? Since no one on this thread seems to have defined it.

India is overatted, it has more people than the entire African continent just like China but they have a serious corruption problem that make Nigeria look like childs play. Infact India has just proposed the creation of a new anti-corruption agency: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14398985
I am sure there are more people suffering in India than in the whole of Africa.

nolongTing:
What a silly question, next you'll be asking why mention Bangladesh   dummy!

Have some self respect and stop being abusive.I have ignored you since yesterday but it seems you have an itch  

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=727224.msg8860698#msg8860698 date=1312546899]Click the link. Pakistan is no better off than Nigeria (at least in this gdp/capita sense, which is mostly what I care about.) And they've been as stagnant since 1960 as Nigeria and the rest of the African countries I compared.

So they don't seem to have figured it out either.[/quote]Thanks ,i was not sure why you mentioned them.Honestly i was not even aware that their GDP was lower than ours.I guess i never bothered to check it out.I know they have had a rough patch because of islamic extremism in their country and the fact they they constantly monitored since they are a nuiclear power.I have a lot pakistani friends and funny enough they are very friendly and intelligent individuals especially when it comes to business and IT.

One of the characteristics i like about pakis(the ones i know at least) is that they tend to look out for each other.They have solidarity amongs themselves unlike Nigerians and who like to bicker over everything.I think their own situation is more complicated than ours.They still need to get rid of the islamic crazies in their country before that can even start to improve their economy.

nolongTing:
First of all the Chinese elite rejected western culture and adapted their unique brand of communism.

Which was exactly what our own visionary leaders were doing in the 60s as we got off the starting block. They had to embrace socialist ideas as that was the only way to propel us forward. The American type capitalism in our budding years would have been a setback as quite a few would have gotten extremely rich while the rest wallow in poverty. There was need to uniform development. That was the idea behind the "Free Education" policy of Western Nigeria. We are still reaping the benefits of that policy till this day. But they were labelled Communists by the CIA and the rest of the West and "quarantined".

Now imagine countries where there is synergy, and no tribal sentiments. Imagine Awolowo was the leader of an Odua Republic. I doubt he could be framed for treason, especially since he would be the unquestionable leader. The people will follow him knowing all he does is for our collective good. But in Nigeria you had forces like the Sardauna as an ally of the Brits. Awolowo's political career and Nigeria were already bo.o.by-trapped from the start. A house divided is already fallen. And if by any chance Awolowo was killed, there would be a long list of his disciples to continue his vision. Continuity. Knowing this, foreign meddlers like the CIA would have simply become spectators since their strategies would have been ineffective. A great leader without synergy can never realize very much, and yes we had great leaders.

You cannot just skip to the middle of a movie without watching it from the beginning to get a good grasp. Making reference to our "collective greed" is exactly that. That came much later, after the decades of sabotage. We started well, but were pulled down. All we have to do is get up and continue the race.

playmode:
Have some self respect and stop being abusive.I have ignored you since yesterday but it seems you have an itch  

Thanks ,i was not sure why you mentioned them.Honestly i was not even aware that their GDP was lower than ours.I guess i never bothered to check it out.I know they have had a rough patch because of islamic extremism in their country and the fact they they constantly monitored since they are a nuiclear power.I have a lot pakistani friends and funny enough they are very friendly and intelligent individuals especially when it comes to business and IT.

One of the characteristics i like about pakis([/b]the ones i know at least) is that they tend to look out for each other.They have solidarity amongs themselves unlike Nigerians and who like to bicker over everything.I think their own situation is more complicated than ours.They still need to get rid of the islamic crazies in their country before that can even start to improve their economy.

You have no class and you are a racist, Paki is a racist term just like the N word, and you have the nerve to talk about "abusive", and "self-respect", you are [b]scum.   stay off the thread or I will continue to expose your dumbness.  

nolongTing:
You have no class and you are a racist, Paki is a racist term just like the N word, and you have the nerve to talk about "abusive", and "self-respect", you are scum.   stay off the thread or I will continue to expose your dumbness.  

***ignored*** 

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Talk:Paki

Epic fail 

logica:
Which was exactly what our own visionary leaders were doing in the 60s as we got off the starting block. They had to embrace socialist ideas as that was the only way to propel us forward. The American type capitalism in our budding years would have been a setback. They were labelled Communists by the CIA and the rest of the West and "quarantined".

We are on the same wavelength here, Have you noticed that MOST former British ex-colonies are a mess and nearly all French ex-colonies are tragic! Its not a coincidence! wake up people! These guys like I said are EVIL geniuses forget that gap toothed idiot in Minna   They left Nigeria with a system that can be solved in 2 ways:

1. War
2. Toleration and slow development

Both would leave the ex-colonies in a vulnerable state which they will exploit.

The only solution is a cultural revolution.

logica:
Now imagine countries where there is synergy, and no tribal sentiments. Imagine Awolowo was the leader of an Odua Republic. I doubt he could be framed for treason, especially since he would be the unquestionable leader. The people will follow him knowing all he does is for our collective good. But in Nigeria you had forces like the Sardauna as an ally of the Brits. Awolowo's political career and Nigeria were already bo.o.by-trapped from the start. A house divided is already fallen. And if by any chance Awolowo was killed, there would be a long list of his disciples to continue his vision. Continuity. A great leader without synergy can never realize very much, and yes we had great leaders.

Great example, at present there is synergy in Nigeria between the cultures its reverse logic a situation of united we fall and divided we rise lol! look at the EU the spend billions on interpreters why? but Africans must speak English, French or Arabic.

playmode:

***ignored*** 

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Talk:Paki

Epic fail 

You are clearly not well read nor well travelled, you are so silly you think the term Paki is a compliment : 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=racist%20abuse

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7822574.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs

stay off the thread or I will continue to expose your stupidity

from the chart in this link   http://i55.tinypic.com/2iuqki1.png  nigeria;s GDP has been crawling on the floor of the chart since 1960     what do u expect from a black nation?
check out all other black countries in the caribbean, are they not all underdeveloped like african countries? maybe something is wrong with the black race in general not only nigeria,  

kl2020:
from the chart in this link   http://i55.tinypic.com/2iuqki1.png  nigeria;s GDP has been crawling on the floor of the chart since 1960     what do u expect from a black nation?
check out all other black countries in the caribbean, are they not all underdeveloped like african countries? maybe something is wrong with the black race in general not only nigeria,   

what is the BLACK race?

kl2020:
from the chart in this link   http://i55.tinypic.com/2iuqki1.png  nigeria;s GDP has been crawling on the floor of the chart since 1960     what do u expect from a black nation?
check out all other black countries in the caribbean, are they not all underdeveloped like african countries? maybe something is wrong with the black race in general not only nigeria,   

I feel you. And perhaps you are right. But was the Chinese man not in the same boat we are in in 1960? Wasn't Dubai?

So couldn't you have concluded in 1960 that something was intrinsically wrong with the Chinese?

Who knows, maybe black people, there is something wrong with us. But my suspicion is that bad leadership, bad governance is more to blame for what is now 50+ years of stagnation.

Anyway, even if the black man is slightly inferior as you suggest, imo we aren't inferior to the indigenes of Dubai. And they made it. So why can't we? It is too simple and lazy to blame intrinsic inferiority as the sole reason for our failures. Lazy thinking gives bad results.

nolongTing:
You are clearly not well read nor well travelled, you are so silly you think the term Paki is a compliment :  

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7822574.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs

stay off the thread or I will continue to expose your stupidity

It is obvious you are not an intelligent individual.Being educated does not make you intelligent you know.This is not your thread but you want to ruin it.This is EKT_Bear's thread.I like the dude that is why i have being trying to avoid getting into a full scale war with you on his thread.SA girl said some people want to turn this thread into something else meaning you and me.I took the cue but you obviously didn't.Why dont you create your own thread and challenge me there.

You started with your insults yesterday because that is what people with small minds do.I engaged you and toned it down.I went to bed woke up this morning and you are still at it.Did you have anightmare about me   Now that is what i call childish.As everyone can see you have always being the instigator of the fights.It is petty really and makes you look stupid and desperate for attention.

As for the word paki ,it is you who is a cow dung for not knowing that it mostly in the U.k that pakistanis dislike being called pakis.Pakistanis in Johannesburg refer to themselves as pakis and i have been calling them pakis for years so my boy congratulations on your Epic fail once again.You make me laugh you know so because i said Paki,you are sure that i am not well travelled.Did you pull that out of azz.Ignorance is bliss for you my chana!

Now i dare you to behave yourself and stop making a fool of yourself.

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=727224.msg8860924#msg8860924 date=1312549314]I feel you. And perhaps you are right. But was the Chinese man not in the same boat we are in in 1960? Wasn't Dubai?

So couldn't you have concluded in 1960 that something was intrinsically wrong with the Chinese?

Who knows, maybe black people, there is something wrong with us. But my suspicion is that bad leadership, bad governance is more to blame for what is now 50+ years of stagnation.

Anyway, even if the black man is slightly inferior as you suggest, imo we aren't inferior to the indigenes of Dubai. And they made it. So why can't we? It is too simple and lazy to blame intrinsic inferiority as the sole reason for our failures. Lazy thinking gives bad results.[/quote]Nope , we are not inferior to any other race ,we are just selfish and intolerant of one another.

playmode:
It is obvious you are an intelligent individual.Being educated does not make you intelligent you know. ,

tell me something new

playmode:
You started with your insults yesterday because that is what people with small minds do.I engaged you and toned it down.I went to bed woke up this morning and you are still at it.Did you have anightmare about me  

You are nothing but a gay! yuck!

[size=15pt]stay off the thread or I will continue to expose your stupidity and G-A-.Y ways[/size]  

playmode:
Nope , we are not inferior to any other race ,we are just selfish and intolerant of one another.

By saying what I said, I'm not necessarily agreeing with his insinuation. My point is that whether we are or not, there is no excuse for 50+ years of mediocrity and stagnation (imo)

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=727224.msg8860924#msg8860924 date=1312549314]I feel you. And perhaps you are right. But was the Chinese man not in the same boat we are in in 1960? Wasn't Dubai?

So couldn't you have concluded in 1960 that something was intrinsically wrong with the Chinese?

Who knows, maybe black people, there is something wrong with us. But my suspicion is that bad leadership, bad governance is more to blame for what is now 50+ years of stagnation.

Anyway, even if the black man is slightly inferior as you suggest, imo we aren't inferior to the indigenes of Dubai. And they made it. So why can't we? It is too simple and lazy to blame intrinsic inferiority as the sole reason for our failures. Lazy thinking gives bad results.[/quote]what is culture and why are African leaders bad? I am asking because I believe there is a link.

nolongTing:
what is culture and why are African leaders bad? I am asking because I believe there is a link.

I don't know the answer to the second question, still trying to figure out what we did wrong.

Regarding culture. . . be more specific? So you think our culture breeds bad leaders?

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=727224.msg8861037#msg8861037 date=1312550343]I don't know the answer to the second question, still trying to figure out what we did wrong.

Regarding culture. . . be more specific? So you think our culture breeds bad leaders?[/quote]I meant what is your logical definition of culture? I think it will help to diagnose the problem of bad leadership

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=727224.msg8861009#msg8861009 date=1312550158]My point is that, whether we are or not is not really what I care about. There is no excuse for 50+ years of mediocrity and stagnation, in my opinion.[/quote]You are right.

Let us take the case of last elections as an example.Nigerians had the opportunity to change the status quo but intentionally voted for the status quo to remain    

To make matters worse even the most educated people amongst us voted for that clown GEJ  

Why do we always select the worst amongst us to lead the best of us?