i dont expect you to converse beyond your mental capacity
xoo i'll excuse you
ire o

Lexusgs430:



Tell me the terrorist sect, that is causing mayhem in Nigeria?

Indeed the fastest growing religion, breeding more terrorists.........

It's Islam, they say the religion of peace war.......

Ramsak1:
i dont expect you to converse beyond your mental capacity
xoo i'll excuse you
ire o

We both resided at Yaba left.......

YakubuA:


First I did not say logic I say rational because logic is based on premises ( if then etc) which is not the best way of deducing facts. So please keep it rational not logical. Beside that when the Qur'an discuss this issue it encourage us to think rationally not logically.

Secondly the Qur'an, in its entirety was revealed, to our beloved Prophet (saw) from Allah(swt) and the Messenger (saw) understood it more than any human in this universe. He (the messenger) explained to us that believers in paradise will see Allah (swt)

Narrated by Muslim in his Saheeh (266) from Suhayb, according to whom the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“When the people of Paradise enter Paradise, Allaah will say, ‘Do you want anything more?’ They will say, ‘Have You not brightened our faces, admitted us to Paradise and saved us from Hell?’ Then the veil will be lifted and they will not have seen anything more dear to them than looking upon their Lord, may He be glorified and exalted. This is what is meant by ‘even more.’” Then he recited the verse (interpretation of the meaning):

“For those who have done good is the best reward and even more (i.e. having the honour of glancing at the Countenance of Allaah)”

[Yoonus 10:26]

There is no contradiction with the fact that we cant see Allah in this life but we can, in shaa Allah, see Him in Jannah because this life is different from the life in Jannah and the transition between the two is death. Once we die we transit to the hereafter which has different laws than our life here. Furthermore our physical creation will change in the hereafter. Remember Allah said on that day He will remove the veil on our eyes and the disbelievers will then see the truth and recognize it that is why they will request for another life but Allah has already forbidden that.
So removing the veil could be that Allah will grant the believers unlimited vision capable of seeing the unlimited being.
And verily this very easy for Allah to do.

I do not want to go into a hadith battle.

When I tell you we cant see Allah, doesnt that indicate I dont believe in those hadiths which state to the contrary? And doesnt that signal that there are hadiths from the Prophet which say we can never see Allah, in this life or in the afterlife?

You speak about rationality. Is it rational for the Quran to state one thing and for the Prophet to overrule and state another thing?

Are you saying the Prophet contradicts the Quran? The Quran doesnt discriminate between this life and the next when we read that "no eyes can grasp Him". Anything contrary to that verse, you should dig deep and look from where the hadith comes from. Certainly, not from the Prophet.

If you say the veil would be taken off our eyes in the afterlife, that is true. That verse has to do with the truth of our existence. It doesnt have to do with changing or reducing the nature of Allah or taking the veil off Allah's nature. Do not misinterpret verses or add your own arguments to the Quran.

AbuTwins:


This moniker is fond of "breaking away"from the truth. Despite the Qur'an verse you quoted corroborating the Hadith OP quoted you still brought up your "Salafy" enemy tag.

Anyways we reject your Suffi-Shiite position!

You talk much about the danger of falling into shirk (idolatry/polytheism). But here you are endorsing it. When you give Allah an image or physical form, He undoubtedly becomes an idol. If Allah had a form or shape, the Prophet would have been shown that form or shape and many copies would have been produced from the original one for Muslims to worship. We would have had pictures of Allah as others have images of their objects of worship. With the Sunni Salafist projection that they will see Allah in the hereafter, the Shia refusal to accept that makes the Shia staunchest believers in Tawhid (monotheism).

YakubuA:


OK Logical Professor. I still stand with what I said logic is based on premises and in some cases may not even have reality example? some mathematical equations. If you are ignorant of this fact then you know nothing about logic and google is your friend don't be lazy.

On the other hand rational thinking is based on reasons and reality. And I hope this help you to understand the difference.

As for the Hadith all can see that the level of your ignorance is second to none.
The Hadith is very clear The Messenger said the veil will be lifted and all the Sahabah understood that when a veil is lifted you will see what the veil conceal. No any other interpretation is needed because there is no ambiguity otherwise the Sahabah would have asked the Prophet to explain further. Beside there was no single Sahabi that disagree with this understanding.
So the onus is rather on you to bring one single Sahabi that disagree with this understanding.

If you are confused the Ummah is not confused.

# Now it is clear you use Google to search what is not clear to you. I am a student of logic. I don't Google search for what logic is.


# You only continue to show your compound ignorance, dear brother saying logic is about premises. To understand an ilm (knowledge), you need to state it's tahrif (definition) and it's mawdu' (subject matter). Only then, you will know what you are dealing with. So, what is the tahrif and mawdua of mantiq?


# Another faulty qadiya of yours is "rational thinking is based on reasons and reality". Don't suffocate yourself with words in order to cover your compound ignorance. Rational thinking is the same thing as reasoning, and anything that is rational is logical. Simple.

If you read Qur'an to understand (and not like himaar ya'milu asfar), you will realize that even Qur'an use lots of muqadimat (Premise) before it reached a natija (result) to prove things. That is one branch of Logical arguments.

Mr premises, muqadimat is not subject matter of mantiq and using "premises" is just a part in Mantiq.


# Lastly, on the hadith: Why do you keep on running away from the Qur'an? And why is it difficult for you to understand an hadith's meaning in the light of Qur'an?

Again, you are the one that made a claim that "sahabah" understood the hadith literally. Why are you running away from providing just a single evidence in the book of your hadith to back your statement? How can you ask me to provide evidence otherwise when I did not make such claim? I don't make silly and filthy and irrational statement. I only make statement I can substantiate with prove.

Don't run away from your spoonfed statement. We challenge you to prove it with authentic hadith that sahabah understood the hadith literally. You don't even fear Allah forging lies and confidently arrogant on it.

Op, this is more like a rhetorical question that you already knew the answer, how can you see an illusion

ifko:

nairaland should be pushing atheist thread to the front page on saturday

Fantastic idea.

So much bias...

Lexusgs430:



Little wonder the religion of Islam is full of terrorist, with comments like this...........

Just hear yourself?
As shameless and hypocritical as you are you come to a Muslim thread that requires you to agree if yiu are a Muslim.
No body forced you o. You went ahead as a shameless and hyporcrtical buffoon you are and clicked "yes" you are a Muslim and when we now reply your disgusting and stupid quotes you call us terrorists forgetting how you stupidly agreed to join a thread you were not forced to join.
The kind entitlement mentality you Christians carry around is just so infuriating and very idiotic and very foolish;and when we talk,we are called names by the same set of people who go looking for our trouble.

Go solve your problems and frustration elsewhere.

Lexusgs430:



Then use your powers to remove that impartiality.............

And square all religious threads........

Impartiality?

Who these broods of nosy pokers?

Do we go to Christian thread telling them to make impartial rules to accommodate Muslims ?

Is like some crying foul that the rules set for basketball should be set for football.
Is this not the height of foolishness?
See, if you can't follow our rules simply bugger off.
Nobody knows whether you exist.

Lexusgs430:



Keep acting like a terrorist.... I shall remain sane and composed......

Is like coming to someone's house and calling them a terrorist

I think you guys are seriously sick.
As in, really sick..

Will I come to your house and call you a terrorist for simply not following my rules in your own house?

In this platform every section has it's rules and regulations.
You don't expect me to come to education section where physics is being discussed and be quoting biblical verses.
Will I look well before every one?

Some of you are just so so sick.
You don't know what to do with your time.

OtemAtum:
Allah cannot be seen because he is in a spiritual cage with Jehovah his mate. Read the BOOK OF UNIVERSAL HISTORY for more information:

Otem Erectus 227:1. Now after this did Otem begin to say, Yahweh, Allah, Moloch, Mazda and all gods of the books are now encaged in a spiritual vacuum. And those who heard him said, keep quiet, for you are mad.
https://www.nairaland.com/2938907/doctrine-ufos

The verse qouted by you shows you are.... What verse you.

OtemAtum:
Allah cannot be seen because he is in a spiritual cage with Jehovah his mate. Read the BOOK OF UNIVERSAL HISTORY for more information:

Otem Erectus 227:1. Now after this did Otem begin to say, Yahweh, Allah, Moloch, Mazda and all gods of the books are now encaged in a spiritual vacuum. And those who heard him said, keep quiet, for you are mad.
https://www.nairaland.com/2938907/doctrine-ufos

The verse qouted by you shows you are.... What the verse called you.

cezarman:


Fantastic idea.

So much bias...

How is that our business?

Go and make all the sections about atheism let's see if they can withstand one-tenth of the assault and questions Muslims receive every week.

I know atheists lack the logicality to withstand Muslims but I can't say for Christians.

Farmerrules:


The verse qouted by you shows you are.... What the verse called you.

If you read further after the verse, you will discover that Otem Erectus was eventually vindicated in his own days. That's how I will eventually be vindicated in our days and after. Time will tell though

Rafidi:


I do not want to go into a hadith battle.

When I tell you we cant see Allah, doesnt that indicate I dont believe in those hadiths which state to the contrary? And doesnt that signal that there are hadiths from the Prophet which say we can never see Allah, in this life or in the afterlife?

You speak about rationality. Is it rational for the Quran to state one thing and for the Prophet to overrule and state another thing?

Are you saying the Prophet contradicts the Quran? The Quran doesnt discriminate between this life and the next when we read that "no eyes can grasp Him". Anything contrary to that verse, you should dig deep and look from where the hadith comes from. Certainly, not from the Prophet.

If you say the veil would be taken off our eyes in the afterlife, that is true. That verse has to do with the truth of our existence. It doesnt have to do with changing or reducing the nature of Allah or taking the veil off Allah's nature. Do not misinterpret verses or add your own arguments to the Quran.

The Qur'an was revealed to our beloved Prophet (saw) and he understood it better than the any human-being and the Messenger is above mistake on this matter. The Sahabah were the best generation of mankind as confirmed by Allah(swt). Furthermore the Prophet(saw) informed us that the Sahabah will never collectively be wrong (Ijmah).
Some of the Hadith like the one I quote are the explanation of the Qur'an from the Messenger himself and the Sahabah understood this matter very well and there is no contradiction whatsoever.

Rationaltiy is a way of thinking based on reality and reasons. On the bold you need to show us where the Hadith of the Prophet contradict the Qur'an and do not make a claim without justification. The Hadith did not contradict the Qur'an and neither did I add my arguments to it. Anyone can verify the Hadith from Sahih Muslim but since you do not believe in the Ahadith then the reference will not be of any use to you.
By the way if you don't believe in Ahadith how do you pray? Because the Qur'an did not give us the detail steps or descriptions for prayer?

As regard the understanding of the Qur'an we take our understanding of each ayah from the Messenger or from the Sahabah not from your logical interpretation. We adhere to the understanding of the Sahabah and the Sunnah of the Messenger and if you do not believe in those Ahadith then too bad for you. If Allah deprive you of understanding who am I to guide you?

You are saying the Hadith is not from the Prophet. Authubillah. Are implying that the Sahabah lied about the Hadith? Authubillah. These were the generation that Allah described as the best generation and the Prophet testified that each of them is like the Prophet of bani Israil and can never collectively go wrong. So what is your evidence?

I will not respond to you again not because I don't have what to say but I can sense your utterances that very soon you may start to insult the Sahabah and I cannot stand that.
May Allah guide you.

Friend22:


Is like coming to someone's house and calling them a terrorist

I think you guys are seriously sick.
As in, really sick..

Will I come to your house and call you a terrorist for simply not following my rules in your own house?

In this platform every section has it's rules and regulations.
You don't expect me to come to education section where physics is being discussed and be quoting biblical verses.
Will I look well before every one?

Some of you are just so so sick.
You don't know what to do with your time.

Calling Nairaland your house, is the beginning of madness..........


It takes a sick person, to identify another......

Friend22:


Impartiality?

Who these broods of nosy pokers?

Do we go to Christian thread telling them to make impartial rules to accommodate Muslims ?

Is like some crying foul that the rules set for basketball should be set for football.
Is this not the height of foolishness?
See, if you can't follow our rules simply bugger off.
Nobody knows whether you exist.

How many threads on nairaland, do you have to made to swear on, before you comment?

Typical terrorist behaviours.... They match out like pigs, and offer baseless insults.....

Friend22:


Just hear yourself?
As shameless and hypocritical as you are you come to a Muslim thread that requires you to agree if yiu are a Muslim.
No body forced you o. You went ahead as a shameless and hyporcrtical buffoon you are and clicked "yes" you are a Muslim and when we now reply your disgusting and stupid quotes you call us terrorists forgetting how you stupidly agreed to join a thread you were not forced to join.
The kind entitlement mentality you Christians carry around is just so infuriating and very idiotic and very foolish;and when we talk,we are called names by the same set of people who go looking for our trouble.

Go solve your problems and frustration elsewhere.

Did I hear you pig say Christians a have sense of entitlement?

And you think having a thread you must swear on, is a level playing field ?

I hope you eat a decent pig's meal, when you break your fast.......

Allahu Akbar.. Allah is the greatest

AlBaqir:


# Now it is clear you use Google to search what is not clear to you. I am a student of logic. I don't Google search for what logic is.


# You only continue to show your compound ignorance, dear brother saying logic is about premises. To understand an ilm (knowledge), you need to state it's tahrif (definition) and it's mawdu' (subject matter). Only then, you will know what you are dealing with. So, what is the tahrif and mawdua of mantiq?


# Another faulty qadiya of yours is "rational thinking is based on reasons and reality". Don't suffocate yourself with words in order to cover your compound ignorance. Rational thinking is the same thing as reasoning, and anything that is rational is logical. Simple.

If you read Qur'an to understand (and not like himaar ya'milu asfar), you will realize that even Qur'an use lots of muqadimat (Premise) before it reached a natija (result) to prove things. That is one branch of Logical arguments.

Mr premises, muqadimat is not subject matter of mantiq and using "premises" is just a part in Mantiq.


# Lastly, on the hadith: Why do you keep on running away from the Qur'an? And why is it difficult for you to understand an hadith's meaning in the light of Qur'an?

Again, you are the one that made a claim that "sahabah" understood the hadith literally. Why are you running away from providing just a single evidence in the book of your hadith to back your statement? How can you ask me to provide evidence otherwise when I did not make such claim? I don't make silly and filthy and irrational statement. I only make statement I can substantiate with prove.

Don't run away from your spoonfed statement. We challenge you to prove it with authentic hadith that sahabah understood the hadith literally. You don't even fear Allah forging lies and confidently arrogant on it.

I am a student of logic too but I also know the limitation of logic and I know where logic emanated from and it has never been part of Islam. I only mention google because is clear you have no idea where and when logic came to some Muslims. Go and search. The generation of Sahabah did not know anything logic neither did the Prophet teach logic to anyone. Logic came from the Greek philosophers originally. But the Deen of Islam is not logic that is why Allah asked menstruating women to pay any fasting they missed but not the prayer. This despite the numerous Ahadith talking about the importance of prayer. Logically it should be otherwise. Can you give one evidence that the Sahabah ever get involve in logic?

Continue deluding yourself rational thinking always link to reality but logic does not necessary do that. Rational is not logic. And I still maintain what I said logic is based on premises go and read about logic from the Greek philosophers since you are ignorant of this fact.

Qur'an is a book of guidance not a book of logic. Allah always call the attention of man to reality of things via rational thinking not logical and what Allah say is right is right and remain forever irrespective of whether it make logical sense or not. That is why when He said the menstruating women should pay the fasting but not the prayer it remain so. Logically it should be otherwise but rationally is perfectly ok.

On the Hadith you are the one to bring evidence contrary to that and you fail to do so. And just because it does not fit into your logic you what to reject it. For us we follow the Messenger and the generation of the Sahabah who were the best generation of mankind and we take our understanding of Islam in from their understanding. We not follow logistism that has no single evidence from the Qur'an or the Sunnah.

Brother fear of Allah is in the mind but it manifest also from people who deny Ahadith of the Prophet (saw) and abuse or accuse the Sahabah. For anyone who abuse or accuse the one whom Allah (swt) praised surely does not have the fear of Allah(swt).

AbuTwins:
My Young Daughter Constantly asks me, ‘Why can’t we see Allah in this life?’ – Shaykh Saalih Al-Fawzan

An Exclusive Translation for Sisters Upon Al-Istiqaamah

Shaykh Al-Fawzan was asked on behalf of a young girl the following question: [1]

My young daughter constantly asks me, ‘Why can’t we see Allah in this life?’ What is the best answer to give her as she is young?

The Shaykh (May Allah preserve him) said,

Say to her, ‘This is because you are not able to see him [in this life]. You would burn to pieces.’ It is not possible for a created being to see Allah in this life. Whereas in the Hereafter Allah gives the believer the strength and ability so he is able to see Allah. Yes.

In another place Shaykh Al-Fawzan mentions: [2]

“The Jahmiyyah and the Mu’tazilah, all of them, reject Ar-Ru’yah (the seeing of Allah) in the Hereafter. Another group exists who say, ‘Verily Allah is seen in this life and in the Hereafter.’ This is a position that is held by some of the Sufis.

The third position, and this is the true and correct stance, is that Allah, the Mighty and Majestic will be seen in the Hereafter by the people of paradise as is found in the ahadeeth that have been narrated upon the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and which have reached the level of Mutawaatir (such a great number of ahadeeth it is not possible that they have all been invented). However, in this life, then verily Allah cannot be seen because the people cannot endure and survive seeing Him, the Exalted in this life. When Moosa (peace and blessings be upon him) asked to see Allah, the Exalted, in this life, Allaah said:

“And when Moses arrived at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said, “My Lord, show me [Yourself] that I may look at You.” [Allāh] said, “You will not see Me, but look at the mountain; if it should remain in place, then you will see Me.” But when his Lord appeared to the mountain, He rendered it level, and Moses fell unconscious. And when he awoke, he said, “Exalted are You! I have repented to You, and I am the first of the believers.” [Al-A’raaf: 143]

The solid mountain became dust due to the Greatness of Allah, the Mighty and Majestic. So how can a human being withstand seeing Allah [in this life]?”
References:

(1) sahab.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=119604
(2) Shaykh Al-Fawzan’s explanation of Al-Haa’iyyah, p. 78-79
Taken from http://uponistiqaamah..com

https://abdurrahman.org/2012/09/12/my-young-daughter-constantly-asks-me-why-cant-we-see-allah-in-this-life/

Allah does not exist, if mohammed never saw him what makes you think u can?

Allahu Akbar!

Friend22:


How is that our business?

Go and make all the sections about atheism let's see if they can withstand one-tenth of the assault and questions Muslims receive every week.

I know atheists lack the logicality to withstand Muslims but I can't say for Christians.

Lol... You're a clown.
No need to waste time with you.

That is your opinion.

GreatResearcher:
Because Allah does not exist

You are entitled to your opinion.

fortran12:


Allah does not exist, if mohammed never saw him what makes you think u can?

Thank you for showing your ignorance and stupidity

YakubuA:


I am a student of logic too but I also know the limitation of logic and I know where logic emanated from and it has never been part of Islam. I only mention google because is clear you have no idea where and when logic came to some Muslims. Go and search. The generation of Sahabah did not know anything logic neither did the Prophet teach logic to anyone. Logic came from the Greek philosophers originally. But the Deen of Islam is not logic that is why Allah asked menstruating women to pay any fasting they missed but not the prayer. This despite the numerous Ahadith talking about the importance of prayer. Logically it should be otherwise. Can you give one evidence that the Sahabah ever get involve in logic?

Continue deluding yourself rational thinking always link to reality but logic does not necessary do that. Rational is not logic. And I still maintain what I said logic is based on premises go and read about logic from the Greek philosophers since you are ignorant of this fact.

Qur'an is a book of guidance not a book of logic. Allah always call the attention of man to reality of things via rational thinking not logical and what Allah say is right is right and remain forever irrespective of whether it make logical sense or not. That is why when He said the menstruating women should pay the fasting but not the prayer it remain so. Logically it should be otherwise but rationally is perfectly ok.

On the Hadith you are the one to bring evidence contrary to that and you fail to do so. And just because it does not fit into your logic you what to reject it. For us we follow the Messenger and the generation of the Sahabah who were the best generation of mankind and we take our understanding of Islam in from their understanding. We not follow logistism that has no single evidence from the Qur'an or the Sunnah.

Brother fear of Allah is in the mind but it manifest also from people who deny Ahadith of the Prophet (saw) and abuse or accuse the Sahabah. For anyone who abuse or accuse the one whom Allah (swt) praised surely does not have the fear of Allah(swt).

Nobody forced you to click or comment. Na you carry your wahala come.

Lexusgs430:



How many threads on nairaland, do you have to made to swear on, before you comment?

Typical terrorist behaviours.... They match out like pigs, and offer baseless insults.....

Modikko:
Nobody forced you to click or comment. Na you carry your wahala come.

Exactly...... Blame the lockdown...... I could have easily spent my time on the ashawo beer parlour thread........

Ximenez:
Na your peadophilic prophet Muhammed be idiot.

You know who is known for raping Canaan virgins and Mary?

It's YAHWEH. go and read the Old Testament bro

That’s where you actually belong

Lexusgs430:



Exactly...... Blame the lockdown...... I could have easily spent my time on the ashawo beer parlour thread........

abduljabbar4:


You know who is known for raping Canaan virgins and Mary?

It's YAHWEH. go and read the Old Testament bro

what sunnah did they allocate to you?
Bombing or raping minors?