shadeyinka:

You have a point as no one can know the Programmer (God) beyond that which the Programmer (God) reveals about Himself.

However, everyone can know about the Programmer from the wonders of the creations around us.

Knowledge about God or Rejection of such knowledge is a personal choice we have to groom ourself in to arrive at a gnostic position

To know God is by having a relationship with Him.
This comes first from knowing about God and then desiring to know Him (having a relationship).

God had already revealed Himself, the problem is that for many, they want a God who will appear as a 100 km tall giant and with a voice so loud that it will circumnavigate the earth 7 times and... unfortunately no!


It's actually the other way round.

Theists initially took it for granted that everyone believed in God.

Atheists much later came up to challenge the notion of the theists.

Now, I think it is LOGICAL that the challenger is the one who need to provide any proof.

Example:
It was thought that the earth was flat at the time when Christopher Columbus lived.
Columbus who felt otherwise proved once and for all to his generation that the earth was round.
https://medium.com/starts-with-a-bang/who-discovered-the-earth-is-round-67dfc013402a

Now about evidence!
Science is about drawing inferences from Physical Materials.
Since atheism isn't science, I may want to ask; what kind of evidence will be suitable for you as a final final proof?

Lol. I've been laughing hard seriously.. U just twisted everything. But no wahala. I like the way the argument is just moving around. I didn't say God was the programmer. How did u know there's a programmer in the first place.

I'm not good in arguments, but you saying that the burden of prove of God is on the atheists is just laughable. How do u know that theists came before athiests. Even if theists came first. In a standard argument, the burden of prove is on the proponent, that's how it is, even in the court of law. U have to prove your claim.

Yes. Lastly, this your question is a nice one. Now tell me the characteristics of your God. I want to be convinced of his abilities. And secondly, since physical prove is necessary, if he can through you, perform a notable miracle, maybe end world suffering and hunger, unite all religions or any physical miracle that you and I can attest to, any miracle of your choice. Even if it's not physical, u can predict the future correctly, maybe the scores of all matches on an epl sunday, or tell me about my past, things I haven't revealed to anyone.. I think those can do for now.

LordReed:


What is the chance that anyone person wins a lottery jackpot? Astronomical, yet it happens. Low odds do not mean impossible.

That is a bad comparison bro. Both cases are not the same. Trying to win one lottery is just one task. But creation involves VERY MANY tasks. For creation to work by chance just like lottery it means you will have to win the lottery over 1 million times in a row which is IMPOSSIBLE.

Nefort:

That is a bad comparison bro. Both cases are not the same. Trying to win one lottery is just one task. But creation involves VERY MANY tasks. For creation to work by chance just like lottery it means you will have to win the lottery over 1 million times in a row which is IMPOSSIBLE.

It is not impossible, it has a low chance. Those are not the same.

LordReed:


It is not impossible, it has a low chance. Those are not the same.

Imagine a human guessing the right number from 1 to 1,000,000,000 and repeating it 1,000,000 in succession. It's just impossible. There is no way to put it.

Nefort:

Imagine a human guessing the right number from 1 to 1,000,000,000 and repeating it 1,000,000 in succession. It's just impossible. There is no way to put it.

Once again you are conflating low odds with impossibility.

LordReed:


It is you that is dense here. What is amino acid if not chemical? Keep acting obtuse, that's what you are good at.

On the highlighted:
Mark the Word- ORIGIN OF LIFE!

shadeyinka:

On the highlighted:
Mark the Word- ORIGIN OF LIFE!

And where was it stated that the chemical origin of life is DNA?

LordReed:


Once again you are conflating low odds with impossibility.

Unfortunately the complexities in the universe can't be generated with such "low odds" as you call it. Creating the complete body system of a male human by chance is just one very "low odd". Then creating a separate female specie that matches with the male specie in physical appearance by chance is another extremely lower odd event to happen. Then creating the body system of a male lion and a female lion both matching in physical appearance reduces the odds very much lower. As many more things get created the pattern of creating all of them by repeating and using a similar technique is no more about "low odds" but real INTENTION and INTELLIGENCE.

Nefort:

Unfortunately the complexities in the universe can't be generated with such "low odds" as you call it. Creating the complete body system of a male human by chance is just one very "low odd". Then creating a separate female specie that matches with the male specie in physical appearance by chance is another extremely lower odd event to happen. Then creating the body system of a male lion and a female lion both matching in physical appearance reduces the odds very much lower. As many more things get created the pattern of creating all of them by repeating and using a similar technique is no more about "low odds" but real INTENTION and INTELLIGENCE.

That's because you don't understand the process by which it was said to have occurred.

LordReed:


That's because you don't understand the process by which it was said to have occurred.

What is the process? You mean evolution?

masterP042:

Lol. I've been laughing hard seriously.. U just twisted everything. But no wahala. I like the way the argument is just moving around. I didn't say God was the programmer. How did u know there's a programmer in the first place.

I believe you know what an analogy is!

I didn't say you called God the Programmer!

masterP042:

I'm not good in arguments, but you saying that the burden of prove of God is on the atheists is just laughable. How do u know that theists came before athiests. Even if theists came first. In a standard argument, the burden of prove is on the proponent, that's how it is, even in the court of law. U have to prove your claim.

What is the earliest book of religion you know?
What is the earliest book of atheism you know?

The age difference alone should tell you which came first.

I don't have to prove that Tor or Zeus or Athemas exist because I didn't challenge their dogma. Neither do the proponents until their dogma is challenged

I do not have to prove that USA did not go to the moon (Armstrong) because I didn't challenge the dogma. NASA doesn't owe me any burden of proof. If I have an opposing dogma, the burden of proof is on me!

If you challenge the theists dogma, the burden of proof is on you. QED!

masterP042:

Yes. Lastly, this your question is a nice one. Now tell me the characteristics of your God. I want to be convinced of his abilities. And secondly, since physical prove is necessary, if he can through you, perform a notable miracle, maybe end world suffering and hunger, unite all religions or any physical miracle that you and I can attest to, any miracle of your choice. Even if it's not physical, u can predict the future correctly, maybe the scores of all matches on an epl sunday, or tell me about my past, things I haven't revealed to anyone.. I think those can do for now.

If my God was an idol in my room, it would have been easy for me to give it an instruction and command to do what you wish. Even though I am close to the DG of my place of work, do you think I can instruct him to exhibit his constitutional powers because "some people don't believe he is the real DG"?

Your request is like asking Femi Adeshina to ask Buhari to make a Presidential speech on June 12 so that I shadeyinka will believe that Buhari is a Patriot.
It sounds intelligently childish!

Are you saying that your Ultimate proof is when God removes our freedom and convert us to a programmed robot-like creature?
When that happens, there would be peace. All the world will be of one religion with just a command...

Let's assume, I can do what you ask of me, who do you think will be the Primary Beneficiary of such activity.
You!?
Me!?
or
God!?

LordReed:


And where was it stated that the chemical origin of life is DNA?

And life can exist without the DNA?

shadeyinka:

And life can exist without the DNA?

Can you just answer the question, where is is state that the chemical origins of life is DNA?

Nefort:

What is the process? You mean evolution?

Yes

LordReed:


Can you just answer the question, where is is state that the chemical origins of life is DNA?

Can you quote me properly before you ask an uneducated question?
Did I say that " the chemical origin of life is DNA"?

shadeyinka:

Can you quote me properly before you ask an uneducated question?
Did I say that " the chemical origin of life is DNA"?

Is that the question I asked you? I said where is it stated that chemical origin of life is DNA, did I say you said it? Answer the question and stop deflecting.

LordReed:


Yes

But how did evolution create male and female animals separately and repeating it across many species?

LordReed:


Is that the question I asked you? I said where is it stated that chemical origin of life is DNA, did I say you said it? Answer the question and stop deflecting.

It is a stupid question until you can show me where I said or insinuated that the chemical origin of life is DNA.

Nefort:

But how did evolution create male and female animals separately and repeating it across many species?

Evolution does not create. Evolution is the change in gene frequency in populations over time.

Read for more information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_sexual_reproduction

shadeyinka:

It is a stupid question until you can show me where I said or insinuated that the chemical origin of life is DNA.

Then Bleep off I have nothing more to say to you.

LordReed:


Evolution does not create. Evolution is the change in gene frequency in populations over time.

Read for more information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_sexual_reproduction

You still didn't explain how evolution decided to create the male and female sex across different different species.

Nefort:

You still didn't explain how evolution decided to create the male and female sex across different different species.

I just corrected you on something and yet you repeated it, shows you really don't care to learn. Did you even bother to read the information in the link I pasted?

LordReed:


I just corrected you on something and yet you repeated it, shows you really don't care to learn. Did you even bother to read the information in the link I pasted?

You said evolution works by changing the gene frequency over time. I felt that was the summary of the link you posted. Wasn't it the summary? But it didn't explain how a change in gene frequency can produce the male and female gender across many species.

Nefort:

You said evolution works by changing the gene frequency over time. I felt that was the summary of the link you posted. Wasn't it the summary? But it didn't explain how a change in gene frequency can produce the male and female gender across many species.

Read the information in the link.

LordReed:


I just corrected you on something and yet you repeated it, shows you really don't care to learn. Did you even bother to read the information in the link I pasted?

He is struggling with the evolution thingy because he wants something that can love him...

Have u wondered why religionists think that the world because of its complexity must have a creator... Then all of a sudden this creator loves them and wants them to worship him. But what happens to those who don't live him, he punishes them in hell. How does one jump from the world is complex enough not to have a creator to this creator loves them.

U can see him un consciously attribute human attributes to evolution as a creator. Somewhere he is wondering how can evolution love him. This whole God thing is just coming from and indept desire to be loved by something powerful in such a uncertain and sad world.

@shadyinka, I want to ask u.. For what purpose did God almighty create this world?

frank317:


He is struggling with the evolution thingy because he wants something that can love him...

Have u wondered why religionists think that the world because of its complexity must have a creator... Then all of a sudden this creator loves them and wants them to worship him. But what happens to those who don't live him, he punishes them in hell. How does one jump from the world is complex enough not to have a creator to this creator loves them.

U can see him un consciously attribute human attributes to evolution as a creator. Somewhere he is wondering how can evolution love him.

@shadyinka, I want to ask u.. For what purpose did God almighty create this world?

LoL! Its true, the universe is a scary place and to think we are all alone in it can be very frightening.

frank317:


He is struggling with the evolution thingy because he wants something that can love him...

Have u wondered why religionists think that the world because of its complexity must have a creator... Then all of a sudden this creator loves them and wants them to worship him. But what happens to those who don't live him, he punishes them in hell. How does one jump from the world is complex enough not to have a creator to this creator loves them.

U can see him un consciously attribute human attributes to evolution as a creator. Somewhere he is wondering how can evolution love him. This whole God thing is just coming from and indept desire to be loved by something powerful in such a uncertain and sad world.

@shadyinka, I want to ask u.. For what purpose did God almighty create this world?

To watch humans fvck

LordReed:


Then Bleep off I have nothing more to say to you.

You can't have any by manufacturing untruths and presenting them as truths

frank317:


He is struggling with the evolution thingy because he wants something that can love him...

Have u wondered why religionists think that the world because of its complexity must have a creator... Then all of a sudden this creator loves them and wants them to worship him. But what happens to those who don't live him, he punishes them in hell. How does one jump from the world is complex enough not to have a creator to this creator loves them.

U can see him un consciously attribute human attributes to evolution as a creator. Somewhere he is wondering how can evolution love him. This whole God thing is just coming from and indept desire to be loved by something powerful in such a uncertain and sad world.

@shadyinka, I want to ask u.. For what purpose did God almighty create this world?

The world was created for His pleasure.
Rev 4:11:
"Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

More like a garden of flowers each with volition to be ugly or beautiful knowing the ultimate goal of the garden owner.

And as a place of selection of flowers (humans) with His own desired traits.

shadeyinka:

The world was created for His pleasure.
Rev 4:11:
"Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

More like a garden of flowers each with volition to be ugly or beautiful knowing the ultimate goal of the garden owner.

And as a place of selection of flowers (humans) with His own desired traits.

What's pleasurable in the way the world has been all these while? How can this situation I am seeing give any kind of being pleasure?

GOD ~ Supreme Being

Satan has been winning all these while by outwitting the only way to prove God's existence!

We are humans and we are the only creature made in God's image, there is no other way to prove his existence if we fail to cohabit peacefully!

That's why God said through Isaiah the prophet that before he (God) bring his judgment upon rebellious humans, he will give us one sign:-

People from different races under the heavens will come together and form one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers globally, they will bury racial prejudice and they will not carry weapons against themselves anymore! Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3

Jesus commissioned this training program in the first century! Matthew 28:19-20

But Satan immediately started fighting hard to stop this plan {Act 4:18, 5:28} he killed all those trained by Jesus to make this a reality and Satan fabricated a counterfeit form of worship to replace what Jesus commissioned back then, this lasted for centuries until Jesus' invisible return in 1914 to reorganize his group {Luke 18:8} and ever since then Jesus has continued to separate his own people from false religions globally to gather them as one {John 17:20-23 compare to Matthew 13:24-30}

There is no way to prove the existence of God when people claiming worshipers of God aren't united in FAITH and having the same line of thought regarding rules of conduct {Romans 15:5-6; 1Corinthians 1:10; Ephesians 4:3; Philippians 2:2} so the true God organized his worshipers as one and make them a people for his name {Act 15:14} but because Satan and his demons keep working round the clock to steal the beautiful name God wanted to give his own people {1Peter 1:12} God hid that name for almost 2,000 years until 1931 after all the false religions on planet earth have taken the group name that observers gave Jesus' followers back then in Antioch (Christians)! Act 11:26

That is when God changed the name of his own worshipers to the one that will eulogize his own name:-

Jehovah's Witnesses Isaiah 43:10-12

God did this to frustrate Satan and his cohorts {Isaiah 65:15} so the new name is fitting as the group continued to grow strong in LOVE JOY and PEACE globally! John 13:34-35

God bless you!

frank317:


What's pleasurable in the way the world has been all these while? How can this situation I am seeing give any kind of being pleasure?

Nothing seems pleasurable as it is now. Remember I said

More like a garden of flowers each with volition to be ugly or beautiful knowing the ultimate goal of the garden owner.

Yes, there are some beautiful Flowers in the garden but there are far much more horrid looking Flowers. On the whole, the whole garden looks messed up but in time the Chief Horticulturist will harvest the kind of flowers that have the innate nature of beauty for His final garden and treat the remaining flowers as Weed!

If you were a horticulturalist with flowers developed to produce beautiful flowers according to their volition , what do you think you'll do to have your Garden of Pleasure ?