₦airaland Forum

handelex:
So Kumuyi telling his members especially the female folks to dress well is for them not to be raped abi? I wonder how some people reason atimes.

The reason behind the women dressing the way they do is so they do not tempt the men. You create these ideas in the minds of humans and they have a hard time letting go.

Possiblegee:
why respect your elders?

Why respect "men of god"? Because Jesus tells you to do so? Or because you are afraid that if you stand up and speak out against their faults, you will somehow be damned by them?

Be more afraid of your Heavenly Father who is able to destroy your body and soul if you choose to sit and watch evil perpetrated by men you assume to be of God.

ModestGal:
You are right. The problem is not just starting today, the African tradition places females to either do well in protecting themselves or face rape. So if a woman dresses or walk where she shouldn't, rape is justified. You will receive lots of bashing on this thread because people like us are few in Nigeria.
But once you and I is existing, then you should know that this country has hope. Because we would build more people like us.

This is a nonsense argument.

Proximo73:
I know a lot of people will come out to crucify me for saying this truth but i have to say it.
The teachings and methods of the and the African tradition teaches

So what has Kumuyi's teachings got to do with rape?
Kumuyi was preaching Holiness of which part of it is about modesty in dressing (male or female). How many deeper life men have been caught raping another?

This should have been your rock point!

BTW, I don't go to his church.

shadeyinka:
So what has Kumuyi's teachings got to do with rape?
Kumuyi was preaching Holiness of which part of it is about modesty in dressing (male or female). How many deeper life men have been caught raping another?

This should have been your rock point!

BTW, I don't go to his church.

it's not about kumuyi or what is happening in deeper life, It's about the mindset of the African people spurn by a faulty African traditional beliefs with regards to the way women should dress.
It's true that some women do not dress modestly, but that shouldn't be a problem.
Churches like deeper life who see women dressing immodestly as a problem are sending wrong signal to the society.
A woman who dressed immodestly is raped the next thing people will ask is, why did she dress that way?
They begin to blame her rather than blaming the rapist.

Proximo73:
it's not about kumuyi or what is happening in deeper life, It's about the mindset of the African people spurn by a faulty African traditional beliefs with regards to the way women should dress.
It's true that some women do not dress modestly, but that shouldn't be a problem.
Churches like deeper life who see women dressing immodestly as a problem are sending wrong signal to the society.
A woman who dressed immodestly is raped the next thing people will ask is, why did she dress that way?
They begin to blame her rather than blaming the rapist.

You have a point but stop mentioning the name of Kumuyi, he only promoted the church tradition.

The Catholic Church started this rubbish by making some women to dress like mourners and the idea is that they're the holy women!

All other Churches joined the trend as if that's what Christianity teaches, that's why misinformed Church founders like Kumuyi also made it a rule but this time more stringent, making it a compulsion for all his females followers, unlike the Catholics that only restricted few even depriving them of their sex life.

African culture never demanded that our virgins should dress the way the orthodox Churches taught people!

TATIME:
You have a point but stop mentioning the name of Kumuyi, he only promoted the church tradition.

that is the reason I should mention his name, not only him, but all those who promotes traditions.
Traditions were already there before kumuyi, but from research it seems this mindset of relegating women who do not dress modestly was further aggravated by his popularity.
The more people were becoming aware of deeper life and it zero tolerance to immodest dressing the more men(mostly unbelievers who never attended deeper life) in a bid to crave their loyalty to the church doctrines find themselves tend to become encouraged to sexually harrass these women or even rape them, It is some kind of ripple effect.

The Catholic Church started this rubbish by making some women to dress like mourners and the idea is that they're the holy women!

The Catholics is the father of all anti -people doctrines!
Pentecostals and other orthodox sects borrowed this anti-Jesus Christ attitude from the catholic church.

All other Churches joined the trend as if that's what Christianity teaches, that's why misinformed Church founders like Kumuyi also made it a rule but this time more stringent, making it a compulsion for all his females followers, unlike the Catholics that only restricted few even depriving them of their sex life.

depriving women of their sex life is evil now, what are they trying to achieve?
People who mutilate female genitals aimed at depriving them of their sexual pleasure is that not almost the same thing?

African culture never demanded that our virgins should dress the way the orthodox Churches taught people!

but we all know that when a lady put on short skirt or even a Jean trouser that accentuate her curve it becomes a problem to men in general.
They can even tag her ashawo or something taboo and begins to harrass her in public.
This happens among us till today.

Women are truly the receiving end to all these rubbish, my own is the church should fight against it

ModestGal:
You are right. The problem is not just starting today, the African tradition places females to either do well in protecting themselves or face rape. So if a woman dresses or walk where she shouldn't, rape is justified. You will receive lots of bashing on this thread because people like us are few in Nigeria.
But once you and I is existing, then you should know that this country has hope. Because we would build more people like us.

Proximo73:
that is just the point!
I soon discover that most people especially religious people cannot separate religion from tradition and that is a huge problem.

See now, if a woman does not dress like deeper life, she is condemned in deeper life churches. How about the men, what should be their dressing code?
Nothing.

I posted this on a related thread. The way this thing works actually is that the general female dressing provokes lust which will keep growing with more provocation until the point where some ill-advised and demented folks will carry out their madness on any one they can find when fully stimulated. I know it may be a hard pill to swallow but we all must play our part and funny enough your name is modest girl.

This whole blame game by women will only leave us with more rape cases tomorrow. We need to get pragmatic.
So many underlying issues are promoting rape. Few of these are:

1. In countries like Nigeria, corruption and the ability to auction justice to bidding offenders is a major one. There have to be reforms to the justice system on rape. Rapists should be publicly humiliated before serving serious jail time to deter other potential rapists.

2. Sexual illiteracy: Society is not educating men on their sexuality. This is so wrong and we're losing the potentials of pure masculinity to this. So many wasted male human resources simply because they weren't taught how to bridle their appetite. Now the general consensus is that men today are less masculine and it's largely because of unbridled libido. Nothing takes away from the productivity and masculinity of men more than unbridled libido. Older men need to look out for our younger generation and teach them mastery of their appetites because if not, men will only grow more barbaric. Our sexual appetite can be bridled and we can have our future in our hands and not women's. Forums can be created for this online.
In worst case scenarios of sexual miseducation, some young boys are actually somehow made to believe that the woman enjoys rape. Damn!. Pleasing a woman sexually and making her happy is a major joy of sex o ye men and no rapist can ever get this.

3. Govt. should restrict porn as well as censorship of all this explicit movies and even social media(Instagram) "slaying". It's reorienting young males, growing their libido and causing them to be less human and productive in life.

4. We also need to reform female fashion because it fosters the situation. Of course ladies' will never understand that, having never experienced male physiology. And many also say "It's my body" but it's being brought into public space in the sight of all men. Like it or not, ladies' dressing today is contributing to irregular sexual behaviour of men and rape in particular and the annoying part is that it isn't the ladies guilty of this that may suffer. An innocent lady may end up suffering the effluence of the perverted lusts of males created by the general female behaviour. What people don't get is that it's not about the dressing of just the victim. It's actually about the dressing of every lady that feeds the lust of these perverts and building the momentum until one of the ladies falls victim when the pervert is finally fully demented.
People in Nigeria are hardly even seeing anything. Y'all just come down to western societies and behold the sickening nudity everywhere. This should equally be criminalized.
Of course, someone might bring up Islamic societies where rape is rampant but the problem with Islam is I don't think(and I stand to be corrected, no offense) it outrightly outlaws rape under at least under certain circumstances and places no real value or protection on a woman or her body, so rape runs free. In Jewish law however referenced in OP, it was both a crime for a woman to dress provocatively as it was for men to rape a woman. It worked. Rape is minimal there.
A good government should maintain some level of control over female fashion for our males' sakes especially for our little boys' futures.

RealMrNigerD:
2. Sexual illiteracy. Society is not educating men on their sexuality. This is so wrong and we're losing the potentials of pure masculinity to this. So many wasted male human resources simply because they weren't taught how to bridle their appetite. Now the general consensus is that men today areless masculine and it's largely because of this. Older men need to look out for our younger generation and teach them mastery of their appetites because if we don't, men will only grow more barbaric. Our sexual appetite can be bridled and we can have our future in our hands and not women's. Forums can be created for this online. In worst case scenarios of sexual miseducation, some young boys are actually somehow made to believe that the woman enjoys rape. Damn! Pleasing a woman sexually and making her happy is a major joy of sex o ye men and no rapist can ever get this.

How can older men teach what many of them have yet to master?

Proximo73:
that is the reason I should mention his name, not only him, but all those who promotes traditions.
Traditions were already there before kumuyi, but from research it seems this mindset of relegating women who do not dress modestly was further aggravated by his popularity.
The more people were becoming aware of deeper life and it zero tolerance to immodest dressing the more men(mostly unbelievers who never attended deeper life) in a bid to crave their loyalty to the church doctrines find themselves tend to become encouraged to sexually harrass these women or even rape them, It is some kind of ripple effect.
The Catholics is the father of all anti -people doctrines!
Pentecostals and other orthodox sects borrowed this anti-Jesus Christ attitude from the catholic church.
depriving women of their sex life is evil now, what are they trying to achieve?
People who mutilate female genitals aimed at depriving them of their sexual pleasure is that not almost the same thing?
but we all know that when a lady put on short skirt or even a Jean trouser that accentuate her curve it becomes a problem to men in general.
They can even tag her ashawo or something taboo and begins to harrass her in public.
This happens among us till today.

Women are truly the receiving end to all these rubbish, my own is the church should fight against it

The Churches of Christendom are the cause of this nonsense starting with the Catholic Church, most people don't know that Muhammad who fabricated covering women from head to toe got the idea from the Catholics!

Before Catholicism, Jews and Arabs don't cover their women like we have today!

Proximo73:
it's not about kumuyi or what is happening in deeper life, It's about the mindset of the African people spurn by a faulty African traditional beliefs with regards to the way women should dress.
It's true that some women do not dress modestly, but that shouldn't be a problem.
Churches like deeper life who see women dressing immodestly as a problem are sending wrong signal to the society.
A woman who dressed immodestly is raped the next thing people will ask is, why did she dress that way?
They begin to blame her rather than blaming the rapist.

Your argument is watery and without substance.
There is no relationship between Kumuyi's preachings and rape cases.

A question:
If Kumuyi has been liberal in his teachings, would the case rape in Nigeria reduce?

This is how ancient Egyptian, Jewish and Babylonian ladies dress, so where did the orthodox Churches got their mourning dress code?

shadeyinka:
Your argument is watery and without substance.
There is no relationship between Kumuyi's preachings and rape cases.

I say it's a ripple effect : that means it is not necessary that there should be a direct relationship, and i also stated that the problem is more traditional /cultural relative than religion, and that religion only helps to propagate the problem.

People who perpertrate rape are also Nigerians who are inclined to culture and religion too. They see women as weaker vessels which they take advantage of

A question:
If Kumuyi has been liberal in his teachings, would the case rape in Nigeria reduce?

not just kumuyi!
Only kumuyi becoming liberal will not have any significant effect, We adjourn every institutions(religious, family, societal and educational) to join hands together to kick against faulty traditions

Maximus69:
The Churches of Christendom are the cause of this nonsense starting with the Catholic Church, most people don't know that Muhammad who fabricated covering women from head to toe got the idea from the Catholics!

Before Catholicism, Jews and Arabs don't cover their women like we have today!

yes!
You have a point there

Just fascinated by the summary of the post

RealMrNigerD:
A good government should maintain some level of control over female fashion for our adult males' sakes and especially our little boys.

what should the government do to regulate the minds of guys who have that animalistic minds to rape women, should the regulation go to the women dressing alone?

OtemAtum:
Kumuyi has built a lot of dirty minds. An average Deeperlifer will see somebody who paints her mouth and fingernails as a prostitute when she is not.

When you are pure at heart , leave the rest for God to Judge . Our heart is the key .

Proximo73:
Just fascinated by the summary of the post
what should the government do to regulate the minds of guys who have that animalistic minds to rape women, should the regulation go to the women dressing alone?

If only you had read well, you'd see that wasn't the summary of the post. That was just a part of the number 3 that a govt. should do. I wonder if you're a lady. Maybe that's why you're only interested in the highlighted part because ladies don't want bro share any responsibility at all for rape but that's exactly why it will continue. Until every party plays their part.

The answer to your question is the failure of the system in general from 1,2,3 has bred these animalistic minds and what should be done to these people apart from the reforms of the whole system is already answered in number 1. Try to read again without sentiments.

RealMrNigerD:
If only you had read well, you'd see that wasn't the summary of the post. That was just a part of the number 3 that a govt. should do. I wonder if you're a lady. Maybe that's why you're only interested in the highlighted part because ladies don't want bro share any responsibility at all for rape but that's exactly why it will continue. Until every party plays their part.

The answer to your question is the failure of the system in general from 1,2,3 has bred these animalistic minds and what should be done to these people apart from the reforms of the whole system is already answered in number 1. Try to read again without sentiments.

ok,
I have seen, sorry i skipped that part.

RealMrNigerD:
I posted this on a related thread. The way this thing works actually is that the general female dressing provokes lust which will keep growing with more provocation until the point where some ill-advised and demented folks will carry out their madness on any one they can find when fully stimulated. I know it may be a hard pill to swallow but we all must play our part and funny enough your name is modest girl.

I do not understand you

Edited and taken off

Proximo73:
I say it's a ripple effect : that means it is not necessary that there should be a direct relationship, and i also stated that the problem is more traditional /cultural relative than religion, and that religion only helps to propagate the problem.

People who perpertrate rape are also Nigerians who are inclined to culture and religion too. They see women as weaker vessels which they take advantage of
not just kumuyi!
Only kumuyi becoming liberal will not have any significant effect, We adjourn every institutions(religious, family, societal and educational) to join hands together to kick against faulty traditions

Then your title is completely misleading because Kumuyi actually preaches sexual purity, chastity, sex only within the confines of marriage.

You can blame the society but you can't blame a person who has done so much to help and heal societal evils.

ModestGal:
Lol, I really don't know what your point is but I read the part where you said my name is modestgal, well, I'm one in a million, who doesn't judge others because I'm oppourtuned to live a certain lifestyle in a certain way. You are surprised because 90% of Nigerians that call themselves righteous people would judge any and every other being who aren't oppourtuned to be like them. That is why Igbos would curse on Yoruba because the Yoruba fail in some aspect and the Igbos are good in that aspect, as well as Yoruba would curse on Igbos for lacking in an aspect which they are good in, and many other Nigerian tribe.

This may be too difficult for you to comprehend because you as a Nigerian are raised to be judgemental, not understanding, lack empathy and as well as reason. If you have a cap, you are raised to hate on others who doesn't have a cap, and someone who has a shoe but without a cap is raised to hate and curse you for not having a shoe, and thats how you go about cursing on each other claiming to be the most righteous and making people feel AFRICANS are ANIMALS. In a nutshell, I dress and cover all part of my body, but that doesn't mean I would start judging others or start abusing people who does not come from a family of covering body, and start forcing them to be like me or start blaming them for rape, some stupid ladies would even wish their fellow ladies rape just because in their mind, they are the most righteous and it is solely their effort they are what they are.
We live in a world of diversity, different cultures, different people, if you cannot accept and live comfortably with how people have chosen to live their life, you don't deserve to be in this world because the LAND do not BELONG to only your FATHER. Let people be, and let them BREATHE

You could have just left it at you don't know what my point is and I would have explained. Did I judge you by a little pun? Did I in anyway defame your character? But you've defamed mine claiming I don't entertain differing views and that it's too hard for me to understand to do that. Something that's an essential principle in my life.

Do you see that even in your claiming not to be judgemental, you really are because you judged me to be judgemental without knowing who I am? Even alleged how I was raised as a Nigerian without knowing a hoot about me? Kindly show where I alleged that your dressing is not right, huh?
You seem to just have been itching to show off your self righteous" I dress so right without condemning those that don't...bla, bla...
If you're not too proud, you could apologize and we could let this pass and you should no longer be so judgemental, okay.

shadeyinka:
Then your title is completely misleading

No, it's not misleading!

All I'm saying is not to blame kumuyi for anything, kumuyi is doing what he think it is right. So, I carefully pick my words "ALSO CONTRIBUTE"
which implies that though kumuyi had good intentions for his zero tolerance to immodest dressing, the ripple effect of that(which he may not be aware of) is evil people in the society hijacking that zero tolerance and become intolerable to ladies who are fund of dressing immodestly and even rape them when they have the chance to do so because they were made by what they heard kumuyi preaching to believe that ladies with immodest dressing are not of God, they are destined to hell fire. This will encourage them the more to perpertrate the act.
Meanwhile, kumuyi on his side will never know that his preaching has contributed to sow a seed of hatred in the heart of these rapists towards their immodest dressed victims.
That is how kumuyi also contributed to the rape mentality in the society.

because Kumuyi actually preaches sexual purity, chastity, sex only within the confines of marriage.

and he did all these preachings with good intentions but meanwhile he may not be aware of the ripple effect I'm trying to point out.

You can blame the society but you can't blame a person who has done so much to help and heal societal evils.

i am not blaming him!
But that ripple effect do exist, it doesn't matter whether anyone blame him or not.

It's not just kumuyi, it also applies to all preachers in Nigeria, it's a faulty system that has been going on.

Proximo73:
No, it's not misleading!

All I'm saying is not to blame kumuyi for anything, kumuyi is doing what he think it is right. So, I carefully pick my words "ALSO CONTRIBUTE"
which implies that though kumuyi had good intentions for his zero tolerance to immodest dressing, the ripple effect of that(which he may not be aware of) is evil people in the society hijacking that zero tolerance and become intolerable to ladies who are fund of dressing immodestly and even rape them when they have the chance to do so because they were made by what they heard kumuyi preaching to believe that ladies with immodest dressing are not of God, they are destined to hell fire. This will encourage them the more to perpertrate the act.
Meanwhile, kumuyi on his side will never know that his preaching has contributed to sow a seed of hatred in the heart of these rapists towards their immodest dressed victims.
That is how kumuyi also contributed to the rape mentality in the society.
and he did all these preachings with good intentions but meanwhile he may not be aware of the ripple effect I'm trying to point out.
i am not blaming him!
But that ripple effect do exist, it doesn't matter whether anyone blame him or not.

It's not just kumuyi, it also applies to all preachers in Nigeria, it's a faulty system that has been going on.

How many of the rapists in Nigeria are members of Deeper Life Bible Church?

Only when you have you data can you insinuate that he contributed to rape case in Nigeria.

Proximo73:
I know a lot of people will come out to crucify me for saying this truth but i have to say it.
The teachings and methods of the likes of pastor kumuyi have contributed to rape mentality among men in our society. Actually, the faulty mentality came from the African traditional beliefs that positioned women to be inferior before men by telling women that there must be a particular way you dress as a woman for you to avoid being raped or sexually harassed, that is the same thing kumuyi replicated as a law in his deeper life church.

Though pastor kumuyi in his mind had good intentions for his doctrines which he may thought that it was one of the measures to curtail rape in the society, he teaches that women should not dress to expose certain parts of their body like their legs by putting on skirts that should not be shorter beyond their knees, and tops that should cover their upper regions up to their necks, arms with long sleeves and baggy appearance without being fitted, that dressing this way will make the lady not to miss rapture at the end.

The question is, at the long run does these kind of dressing among women curtail rape in our society?
The answer is absolutely no!

Now, most men who raped women when you ask them why did you do it? One excuse they will give is, they did it because their victim did not cover their body as the likes of kumuyi and the African tradition teaches

Is it compulsory to write anything at all

Proximo73:
nothing!

I also wish that rapists should also see that nothing is also wrong for women not to dress like deeper life and allow them to be

Has any rapist tells you that because Pastor Kumuyi teach people, that's the reason they rape their victims

Proximo73:
you made a very valid point my brother
no, I won't!
Not just only kumuyi but virtually all the Nigerian pastors.
They have been promoting faulty African traditions in their churches in the form of doctrines

A woman will wear short skirt to church they will prevent her from entering church saying she will seduce men or cause rape.
But a man put on short knicker to church he is holy

Have you seen any man wearing short sneaker to kumuyi church.

Proximo73:
it's not about kumuyi or what is happening in deeper life, It's about the mindset of the African people spurn by a faulty African traditional beliefs with regards to the way women should dress.
It's true that some women do not dress modestly, but that shouldn't be a problem.
Churches like deeper life who see women dressing immodestly as a problem are sending wrong signal to the society.
A woman who dressed immodestly is raped the next thing people will ask is, why did she dress that way?
They begin to blame her rather than blaming the rapist.

Why must a woman dress immodestly and indecently

engineerboat:
Why must a woman dress immediately and indecently

Why can't she?
Is it your place to tell her how to dress? If your answer is yes, please show us where in the Bible Jesus Christ, the Son of God, tells you this?

Kobojunkie:
Why can't she?
Is it your place to tell her how to dress? If your answer is yes, please show us where in the Bible Jesus Christ, the Son of God, tells you this?

2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; 2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. - 1 Timothy 2:8-10

engineerboat:
Why must a woman dress immediately and indecently

Kumuyi pikin them!

What concerns a Christian in how someone
NOT your mother,
NOT your wife,
NOT your sister,
NOT your daughter
Choose to dress herself?

engineerboat:
2:8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; 2:10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. - 1 Timothy 2:8-10

Those are not the commandments of Jesus Christ... those are Paul's words which you misconstrue.

But I would rather we focus on the words of Jesus Christ, the one who we follow and whose commandments we are called to obey. So, where does Jesus Christ tell you that it matters what women wear and that it is indeed your place to tell a woman how to dress?